GASOLINE SPOILED AMERICANS

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:20 am

The rest of the world has been paying more for gasoline than we have, for a long time. If our gas went to and stayed at $3.00 per gallon it would work a hardship on a small percentage of people. The majority would have to make some adjustments to their spending and entertainment expenses. Like, giving up their daily "Starbucks" double latte whatever at $3.50 a pop or getting rid of that big ass gas gussilin SUV, or renting only two DVD's from "Blockbuster" instead of eight. Gas will go higher in my view. I'm predicting $80 per barrel by end of 2005.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:32 am

No doubt. We will continue to pay higher prices for gas, no matter how high the price goes. I's as necessary as air, in most of the US. We will not change until a Bill Gates/Google-guy type of entrepenuer (sp) comes along with an alternative and chop off the Detroit guys at the ankles. It will happen soon, but I'm not betting when.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:47 am

I really do feel for the folks who are on fixed and very low incomes. I canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t imagine how some of them are going to handle this. The fact is that we have been spoiled with the low prices. The party is over so now maybe there will be a breakthrough in technology that will allow us to break our addiction.

I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t understand why diesel is more expensive than premium gasoline. It takes less to refine it yet they are getting more for it. Does anyone know why?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:04 am

Same reason unleaded gas is more expensive than leaded gas, even though it costs to add lead: supply & demand.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:13 am

Accountable wrote: Same reason unleaded gas is more expensive than leaded gas, even though it costs to add lead: supply & demand.
Maybe IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m thick headed but it seems it would be easier to supply a product that relatively simple to process and cost less to make. I suspect the Ã¢â‚¬Å“demandÃ¢â‚¬ is that the diesel customers have fewer options. The trucks, trains and ships must keep moving.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:21 am

When it was just truckers & trains, diesel was cheaper. When diesel-engine SUV & big pickups became more popular, diesel started creeping higher. I don't think it has anything to do with processing, the profit margin is getting bigger. :yh_money

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:22 am

Clint wrote: Maybe IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m thick headed but it seems it would be easier to supply a product that relatively simple to process and cost less to make. I suspect the Ã¢â‚¬Å“demandÃ¢â‚¬ is that the diesel customers have fewer options. The trucks, trains and ships must keep moving.

You also have to factor in the "demand" from environmentalists since

diesel is more polluting.

Years ago, diesel used to always be much, much cheaper than regular

gas. Just last night on a local news report, I saw a gas station sign

listing 3 grades of gas and diesel at the bottom, and diesel was the most

expensive. And that was a station for regular vehicles, not a "truck stop".

I also saw a bit on someone who had rigged his Prius with a bunch of

batteries in the trunk... but his top speed was 34 miles per hour. Hey,

I can get a lot better gas mileage only going 34 mph, too!

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:25 am

:driving: Accountable wrote: When it was just truckers & trains, diesel was cheaper. When diesel-engine SUV & big pickups became more popular, diesel started creeping higher. I don't think it has anything to do with processing, the profit margin is getting bigger. :yh_money
Money? How could that be? IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m crushed.:driving:

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:31 am

valerie wrote: You also have to factor in the "demand" from environmentalists since

diesel is more polluting.

Years ago, diesel used to always be much, much cheaper than regular

gas. Just last night on a local news report, I saw a gas station sign

listing 3 grades of gas and diesel at the bottom, and diesel was the most

expensive. And that was a station for regular vehicles, not a "truck stop".

I also saw a bit on someone who had rigged his Prius with a bunch of

batteries in the trunk... but his top speed was 34 miles per hour. Hey,

I can get a lot better gas mileage only going 34 mph, too!
I drive a diesel pickup. I bought diesel because it is more efficient. I had a gasoline powered pickup prior to this one and I get almost double the fuel efficiency with the diesel. The refineries should be making less unleaded fuel and using the capacity to meet the diesel demand since diesels use less fuel. Why is it that using less fuel converts to an environmental problem? I know the old diesels emitted a lot of soot but the new ones are pretty clean.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:20 am

Clint wrote: I really do feel for the folks who are on very low incomes. I canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t imagine how some of them are going to handle this.

I can tell you how I'm going to handle it....bicycle.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:12 pm

Clint wrote: I drive a diesel pickup. I bought diesel because it is more efficient. I had a gasoline powered pickup prior to this one and I get almost double the fuel efficiency with the diesel. The refineries should be making less unleaded fuel and using the capacity to meet the diesel demand since diesels use less fuel. Why is it that using less fuel converts to an environmental problem? I know the old diesels emitted a lot of soot but the new ones are pretty clean.

I see your point. I guess I must admit to a certain amount of prejudice

against the diesel engine. (Okay, a lot!!:o ) Incredibly noisy, they stink,

and they pollute more. But it would be hard to argue against greater

efficiency.

Me, I stick with my little guy since I don't need to pull a horse trailer!

(YET, anyway!) And I stay with the 5-speed because that is more fuel

efficient than an automatic. But a "stick" isn't even STANDARD any more

because of "demand"!

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:18 pm

valerie wrote: I see your point. I guess I must admit to a certain amount of prejudice

against the diesel engine. (Okay, a lot!!:o ) Incredibly noisy, they stink,

and they pollute more. But it would be hard to argue against greater

efficiency.

Me, I stick with my little guy since I don't need to pull a horse trailer!

(YET, anyway!) And I stay with the 5-speed because that is more fuel

efficient than an automatic. But a "stick" isn't even STANDARD any more

because of "demand"!
Because of health issues it's begining to look like I won't need the pickup so I will be looking for a VW turbo diesel. They get better than 45mpg.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:20 pm

valerie wrote: You also have to factor in the "demand" from environmentalists since

diesel is more polluting.
Way back in my foggy memory, I remember a class I had to take that taught me diesel causes less air polution than gasoline engines. the thick, black smoke is particles of carbon that float to the ground soon after being coughed out of the exhaust pipe. The gasoline engine emissions are carcinogeous gasses - far more harmful to the environment.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:21 pm

Accountable wrote: Way back in my foggy memory, I remember a class I had to take that taught me diesel causes less air polution than gasoline engines. the thick, black smoke is particles of carbon that float to the ground soon after being coughed out of the exhaust pipe. The gasoline engine emissions are carcinogeous gasses - far more harmful to the environment.
I also recall this. It makes sense too.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:25 pm

Accountable wrote: Way back in my foggy memory, I remember a class I had to take that taught me diesel causes less air polution than gasoline engines. the thick, black smoke is particles of carbon that float to the ground soon after being coughed out of the exhaust pipe. The gasoline engine emissions are carcinogeous gasses - far more harmful to the environment.

Interesting. And it does make sense. I wonder if the tree-huggers I've

heard just say more polluting meaning the ground or water supply or

something. But just regular old carbon doesn't seem like it would be bad.

Or, they just have their heads up their butts!

:p

kmhowe72 · Post by **kmhowe72** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:31 pm

Well we don't live in othere countries LON! We live int his country. Were we don't suffer under gov. crulity. :-6 IT"S SO GREAT TO BE AMERICAN

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:53 pm

kmhowe72 wrote: Well we don't live in othere countries LON! We live int his country. Were we don't suffer under gov. crulity. :-6 IT"S SO GREAT TO BE AMERICAN

Spoken like a deep thinker.

kmhowe72 · Post by **kmhowe72** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:16 pm

Yes I am. We are not spoiled Americans were greatful americans.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:38 pm

Accountable wrote: Way back in my foggy memory, I remember a class I had to take that taught me diesel causes less air polution than gasoline engines. the thick, black smoke is particles of carbon that float to the ground soon after being coughed out of the exhaust pipe. The gasoline engine emissions are carcinogeous gasses - far more harmful to the environment.

And guess what! Those carbon particles are gobbled up by the bacteria in the ground and used as a food source.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:00 pm

valerie wrote: You also have to factor in the "demand" from environmentalists since

diesel is more polluting.

As in what? Carbons? That is very debatable at the least. When you factor in all the +'s and -'s I think Diesel is cleaner. The carbon the GREENIES holler about are being debunked everyday.

My opinion....

MicahLorain · Post by **MicahLorain** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:02 pm

valerie wrote: Interesting. And it does make sense. I wonder if the tree-huggers I've

heard just say more polluting meaning the ground or water supply or

something. But just regular old carbon doesn't seem like it would be bad.

Or, they just have their heads up their butts!

:p
I had a diesel Chevy Caprice in the early 80's and it was a pile of BLEEP. Expensive to repair, impossible on cold days and God forbid you run outta fuel! You'll need a tow truck and a mechanic. I know the technology has improved since the stinky diesel Caprice but all you tree-haters sound like you'd love Beijing or Bombay! Choked with thick diesel smog 24/7.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:09 pm

MicahLorain wrote: I had a diesel Chevy Caprice in the early 80's and it was a plie of BLEEP. Expensive to repair, impossible on cold days and God forbid you run outta fuel! You'll need a tow truck and a mechanic. I know the technology has improved since the stinky diesel Caprice but all you tree-haters sound like you'd love Beijing or Bombay! Choked with thick diesel smog 24/7.

Ya ............. you bought a chevy 350 gas engine block converted to a diesel............ Pieces o crap.

Oh my

How does that song go?

OH Yah........Got it

.....We've come a long way baybe..

OOPS Baby

MicahLorain · Post by **MicahLorain** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:37 pm

BTS wrote: Ya ............. you bought a chevy 350 gas engine block converted to a diesel............ Pieces o crap.

Oh my

How does that song go?

OH Yah........Got it

.....We've come a long way baybe..

OOPS Baby
I thought the diesel Caprices were factory made. What a Dog it was! At that time diesel was much cheaper. I thought I was ahead of the technology curve!:yh_dance Instead I was on the opposite end of that curve. It petered out for good at 46,000 miles. I spent over $2000 on repairs. (Alot at that time.) Remember the diesel VW Rabbits!!

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:41 am

I was looking into buying a diesel for myself, but it's hard to find a small one. Who makes an S-10 size with diesel?

Shadow8472 · Post by **Shadow8472** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:31 am

I'm happy with my Sonata. It takes unleaded, averages 25 MPG and has hit a high of 33 MPG and a low of 13MPG. In retrospect, if i had been thinking when I was looking at cars last, I would have purchased a hybrid. one of my friends has a Civic hybrid and her lowest was 35 MPG. wow. But the next car I purchase ill definatley be a Hybred.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:09 am

Accountable wrote: I was looking into buying a diesel for myself, but it's hard to find a small one. Who makes an S-10 size with diesel?
I don't know. I hope someone does because if there is such a thing I would be very interested.

kmhowe72 · Post by **kmhowe72** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:59 am

I was reading on aol, that some people were going to use cow manure. YECK> Try driving with that.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:34 pm

kmhowe72 wrote: I was reading on aol, that some people were going to use cow manure. YECK> Try driving with that.
Maybe it's as a seat cushion. Keeps you from cruising for very long.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:18 pm

Am I the only person who remembers the gasoline crunch of the mid-late 70's? The price at the station was over $2.50 a gallon AND you had to wait in line for hours. As far as I can figure - with inflation - the price of a gallon of gas was far more expensive then. At least we can get to work now.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:03 pm

actually, the national average for gasoline peaked in 1974 at fifty-five cents a gallon.

adjusted for inflation, that's about equal to the $2.00 a gallon we were paying last winter.

the peak for the adjusted cost of gasoline was back in 1982, when it reached a cost of a bit more than $3.00 a gallon in 2004 dollars. we're now reaching into that territory for the first time in real and adjusted dollars.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:14 pm

anastrophe wrote: actually, the national average for gasoline peaked in 1974 at fifty-five cents a gallon.

adjusted for inflation, that's about equal to the $2.00 a gallon we were paying last winter.

the peak for the adjusted cost of gasoline was back in 1982, when it reached a cost of a bit more than $3.00 a gallon in 2004 dollars. we're now reaching into that territory for the first time in real and adjusted dollars.

I stand corrected on the year Paul - thank you. According to this graft and my memory - It was not 55 cents a gallon. It really was close to $2.50 a gallon in 1982. We still had shortages.

kmhowe72 · Post by **kmhowe72** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:24 pm

I read on Aol. that people are now stealing gas. I knew this was going to happen. This is what I mean, you put peopple in the poor house and the resort to stealing.

kmhowe72 · Post by **kmhowe72** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:27 pm

Gas theft is a problem that costs the industry millions and may have even cost one gas station owner his life. In Alabama, a service station owner was killed last week trying to stop a driver police believe wasn't going to pay a $52 tab. The owner was run over in the incident. And industry experts expect the problem to get worse as gas prices continue to rise. Aol

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:23 am

kmhowe72 wrote: I read on Aol. that people are now stealing gas. I knew this was going to happen. This is what I mean, you put peopple in the poor house and the resort to stealing.
It ain't food. Don't make excuses for theives.

kmhowe72 · Post by **kmhowe72** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 5:19 am

your right their is know excuse for theives. But in order for you to eat, you have to drive to either a store or a job, or a bank.

kmhowe72 · Post by **kmhowe72** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 5:22 am

We don't have puplic transpertation everywhere in the states. hay you need gas to operate those trackers at farms to operated them. In order to purduce food. Even nucler power plants I heared yesterday they run on gas.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:29 am

kmhowe72 wrote: We don't have puplic transpertation everywhere in the states. hay you need gas to operate those trackers at farms to operated them. In order to purduce food. Even nucler power plants I heared yesterday they run on gas.
I dint heared that. Where's it at?

kmhowe72 · Post by **kmhowe72** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:37 am

you know I don't know. I heared on msnbc, it was on one those 15 minute updates. Besides I asked my husband he works for a company that supplies nuclur power plants so he said he they move somewhere else. Check Msnbc , type nucler and see what you can come up with.

kmhowe72 · Post by **kmhowe72** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:42 am

Besides we have more land we need to drive then most people. And gas is essential to operate this country. :driving:

Majenta · Post by **Majenta** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:23 am

oh it's cruel...

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:50 am

we used to have a perfectly serviceable topic for spelling/grammar flames. it worked great for keeping topics from derailing with petty, pointless digressions simply because some people are poor spellers.

mocking someone because of their poor spelling is disrespectful. yes, poor spelling can make it hard to discern the message behind the misspelled words; i think we're all intelligent enough here to manage to do that, without being cruel about it.

fair enough?

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:54 am

kmhowe72 wrote: your right their is know excuse for theives. But in order for you to eat, you have to drive to either a store or a job, or a bank.

I disagree with this idea, Kim. Because I know it's not true. I rode a bicycle to work for 8 years and NEVER ONCE drove a car during that time. People can get by, they just don't want to have to exercise or work harder to do it.

Right now, on my list of things to do , is to repair my bicycle's flat tire because I'm planning on riding it to school (work) again.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:59 am

Jives wrote: I disagree with this idea, Kim. Because I know it's not true. I rode a bicycle to work for 8 years and NEVER ONCE drove a car during that time. People can get by, they just don't want to have to exercise or work harder to do it.

Right now, on my list of things to do , is to repair my bicycle's flat tire because I'm planning on riding it to school (work) again.

Be careful Jives. DonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t forget your helmet.

I got my bike out and rode it some last week. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve been having balance problems so I wondered if I could do it. I was amazed that I did just fine.

I agree. We will adapt.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 5:13 pm

Catchy beat. Easy to dance to. I'll give it an 8!

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 5:15 pm

anastrophe wrote: we used to have a perfectly serviceable topic for spelling/grammar flames. it worked great for keeping topics from derailing with petty, pointless digressions simply because some people are poor spellers.

mocking someone because of their poor spelling is disrespectful. yes, poor spelling can make it hard to discern the message behind the misspelled words; i think we're all intelligent enough here to manage to do that, without being cruel about it.

fair enough?
*Applauds loudly*

actionfigurestepho · Post by **actionfigurestepho** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:43 am

I'm very upset about the gas prices. Where I live, you can't ride a bicycle anywhere...it's highly unsafe, if not impractical. Winter lasts from November through April, and everything is at least ten miles away. In addition, my location has NO public transportation. To take a bus anywhere, I'd need a car to get to the stop. Not only that, we have a lot of farmers who depend on fuel to get their land tilled. Farmers can't exactly use economy cars to do this.

The hospital I've been using for my transplant is 45 minutes away on the highway...that's almost 1/4 of a tank of gas. It's very hard on me. In addition to paying hundreds a month for meds I'm spending tons on my gas now.

I can't wait till hybrids become more affordable. I understand WHY the cost of oil is rising, and I know that everyone has it just as bad, but for crying out loud! We have some alternatives to fossil fuel, let's make them more publically accessable.

Hang Man · Post by **Hang Man** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:53 am

anastrophe wrote: we used to have a perfectly serviceable topic for spelling/grammar flames. it worked great for keeping topics from derailing with petty, pointless digressions simply because some people are poor spellers.

mocking someone because of their poor spelling is disrespectful. yes, poor spelling can make it hard to discern the message behind the misspelled words; i think we're all intelligent enough here to manage to do that, without being cruel about it.

fair enough?

Now now. embarassment and humiliation is perfectly good motivation to improve. I think there are limitations, but I have learned a good deal through ridicule.