Nostradamus.. Fact or fiction?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:37 pm

If you are a fan of nostradamus or just intrigued to know more, i can recommend this new book.

http://www.nostradamusonline.com/

Nostradamus Online.com :: World War III Predictions Revealed

along-for-the-ride · Post by **along-for-the-ride** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:56 pm

I believe Nostradamus's predictions are a matter of interpretation. His manner of writing evokes imagination and coincidence and hind-sight.

Fascinating reading.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:29 pm

Too many of the cultural references he used have been lost for anyone to interpret his writing in a meaningful way today.

Too few of his predictions have come to pass for the rest to be useful.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:00 pm

Bryn Mawr;1068262 wrote: Too many of the cultural references he used have been lost for anyone to interpret his writing in a meaningful way today.

Too few of his predictions have come to pass for the rest to be useful.

Is it not the ability to fore-warn that is the point of a phrophet?

How many of Nostradamus predictions fore-warned where heed was taken and the prediction not being fulfilled?

I had a tough time with Nostradamus when studying him. I found his quatrains extremely complex. As interpreter's have said, anagrams, old language's etc.

I do believe their was some truth in some but quite rightly, they rely solely on the interpreter.

I still find him a fascinating subject and have always been intrigued of the third anti-Christ he has spoken of. According to interpretation, the first was Napoleon and the second, Hitler.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:30 am

oscar;1068236 wrote: If you are a fan of nostradamus or just intrigued to know more, i can recommend this new book.

NostradamusOnline.com :: World War III Predictions Revealed

Nostradamus Online.com :: World War III Predictions Revealed

from the link

Imagine knowing the secrets Nostradamus never intended humanity to decipher.

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl Why did he bother making them then?

Predictions that only make sense only after an event are a bit pointless. How come all those american soothsayers only saw 911 after the event?

The trouble is you get a lot of gullible people that really buy in to this sort of stuff and think we are now living in the end of times and would like nothing better than to see it all come true.

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:15 am

I just always found him to be very vague. It's easy to make anything "fit" after the event has already happened.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:46 am

gmc;1068414 wrote: from the link

I

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl Why did he bother making them then?

Predictions that only make sense only after an event are a bit pointless. How come all those american soothsayers only saw 911 after the event?

The trouble is you get a lot of gullible people that really buy in to this sort of stuff and think we are now living in the end of times and would like nothing better than to see it all come true.

I think the third anti-christ that he speaks of, comes from Scotland, is an ex hippy, haggis botherer, sporran fiddler, bearded jock-strap, live's in Fife and doesn't read the Daily mail.

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

Post by **spot** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:23 am

I have two questions.

Firstly, were these predictions intended to forewarn, or were they set in print in order that people could look back on a catastrophe and what he'd written and say "wow that Nostradamus knew that was going to happen, look, he predicted it". Because if they're to forewarn they're impressive but if they're to show off they just show he was a total jerk.

Secondly, where can I look to find a written statement of "Nostradamus predicts that X will happen in the future between this and this date" where X did happen between this and this date, thereby confirming a foretelling as opposed to a retrospective bit of showing off? Preferably I'd like quite a lot of these, all of events which have happened, all of someone reading Nostradamus and writing that it was due and saying when.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:27 am

oscar;1068292 wrote: Is it not the ability to fore-warn that is the point of a phrophet?

How many of Nostradamus predictions fore-warned where heed was taken and the prediction not being fulfilled?

I had a tough time with Nostradamus when studying him. I found his quatrains extremely complex. As interpreter's have said, anagrams, old language's etc.

I do believe their was some truth in some but quite rightly, they rely solely on the interpreter.

I still find him a fascinating subject and have always been intrigued of the third anti-Christ he has spoken of. According to interpretation, the first was Napoleon and the second, Hitler.

To believe that I'd need some evidence of the change in intention recorded before the event.

Too many different interpretations exist to "prove" whatever the interpreter wants for me to take it seriously.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:35 am

I'm surprised someone hasn't made a religion from him and his writings yet. At least a cult or two.

First Church of the Nostradamus

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:12 pm

YZGI;1068722 wrote: I'm surprised someone hasn't made a religion from him and his writings yet. At least a cult or two.

First Church of the Nostradamus

I'm sure there are some some-where in the world, there has to be.

They are the one's who have built their own radio-active bunkers in their back yards

Chookie · Post by **Chookie** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:30 pm

oscar;1068588 wrote: I think the third anti-christ that he speaks of, comes from Scotland, is an ex hippy, haggis botherer, sporran fiddler, bearded jock-strap, live's in Fife and doesn't read the Daily mail.

Ah-hem, that's an ad hominem. I'm from Scotland, not so ex- hippy, I don't bother haggii, I eat them, you can't fiddle a sporran, I am misfortunate enough to live in Fife, But I definitely don't read the Daily Mail (too much Tory bullshit).

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:33 pm

Chookie;1068881 wrote: Ah-hem, that's an ad hominem. I'm from Scotland, not so ex- hippy, I don't bother haggii, I eat them, you can't fiddle a sporran, I am misfortunate enough to live in Fife, But I definitely don't read the Daily Mail (too much Tory bullshit).

No offence meant to any from Scotland other than that bearded heather muncher gmc :yh_rotfl

Post by **spot** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:34 pm

Who's Heather?

And you dodged my two questions.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:53 pm

spot;1068596 wrote: I have two questions.

Firstly, were these predictions intended to forewarn, or were they set in print in order that people could look back on a catastrophe and what he'd written and say "wow that Nostradamus knew that was going to happen, look, he predicted it". Because if they're to forewarn they're impressive but if they're to show off they just show he was a total jerk.

Secondly, where can I look to find a written statement of "Nostradamus predicts that X will happen in the future between this and this date" where X did happen between this and this date, thereby confirming a foretelling as opposed to a retrospective bit of showing off? Preferably I'd like quite a lot of these, all of events which have happened, all of someone reading Nostradamus and writing that it was due and saying when.

I don't hink it was to show off. From what i have read on him, he was certainly an odd ball, Astrologer first and phrophet second. He was a deeply religeous hebrew with profound beliefs. What would an astrologer in the mid 15 hundreds have exactly 'to show off over' When refering to America, he called it 'The new World'. I was always interested in the interpretation that the 'New World' would be anhililated from the East.

The dates that Nostradamus predicts have never actually been 'dated' by him. As an astrologer, he would use for eg,' when Mars rises in Capricorn etc etc.

There is a book some-where that i'd like to track down where modern day astrologers have plotted orbits and planet movement in conjuntion with his phrophecie's and it's alleged that they are accurate to a day.

Post by **spot** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:58 pm

So all we need, to show he wasn't a jerk showing off, is at least one person writing (some time ago) that Nostradamus predicts that in (name a date in the future) this event will happen, combined with a report of the event happening.

We're surrounded by posters all saying "Nostradamus says that in 2012...", surely someone must have said something about a date before 2008 that we can go and check?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:03 pm

spot;1068899 wrote: So all we need, to show he wasn't a jerk showing off, is at least one person writing (some time ago) that Nostradamus predicts that in (name a date in the future) this event will happen, combined with a report of the event happening.

We're surrounded by posters all saying "Nostradamus says that in 2012...", surely someone must have said something about a date before 2008 that we can go and check?

It is worth investigating. When i read on him, interpretations predicted that world war111 would begin in 2000 yet many of his future predictions by interpretation talk of peace after 2000. I will have to go back through some books i have to re-read anything between 2000 and 2008.

Post by **spot** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:13 pm

oscar;1068906 wrote: It is worth investigating. When i read on him, interpretations predicted that world war111 would begin in 2000 yet many of his future predictions by interpretation talk of peace after 2000. I will have to go back through some books i have to re-read anything between 2000 and 2008.

Don't limit yourself to such a small range, anything at all that people recognized beforehand between 1600 and yesterday will be ideal. You'd think that any such statement by anyone in the world which subsequently turned out to be accurate would be printed in bold type in any history of Nostradamus, wouldn't you. Vindication, that sort of thing. I'm puzzled that there's no huge advertising fanfare for something like "in 1882 Bismark wrote that Nostradamus predicted a World War between Middle Europe and the surrounding countries during the twentieth century". Or Mark Twain, or even the sub-editor of the Philadelphia Enquirer. Anyone. There are thousands of people after 1920 writing "Nostradamus successfully foretold the Great War", all I want is one person writing it before, say, 1910. Maybe someone in 1700? 1800? 1900?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:17 pm

spot;1068921 wrote: Don't limit yourself to such a small range, anything at all that people recognized beforehand between 1600 and yesterday will be ideal. You'd think that any such statement by anyone in the world which subsequently turned out to be accurate would be printed in bold type in any history of Nostradamus, wouldn't you. Vindication, that sort of thing. I'm puzzled that there's no huge advertising fanfare for something like "in 1882 Bismark wrote that Nostradamus predicted a World War between Middle Europe and the surrounding countries during the twentieth century". Or Mark Twain, or even the sub-editor of the Philadelphia Enquirer. Anyone. There are thousands of people after 1920 writing "Nostradamus successfully foretold the Great War", all I want is one person writing it before, say, 1910. Maybe someone in 1700? 1800? 1900?

I won't be able to answer immediately but i will certainly go over my old notes and books to see what i can find.

One i found surprisingly accurate i remember was the rising of 'Lech Walesea' again though, only interpretation. Some say, 'Mandela' but i seem to remember he refered to the 'man they tried to oppress' being from Europe.

Post by **spot** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:05 pm

oscar;1068931 wrote: I won't be able to answer immediately but i will certainly go over my old notes and books to see what i can find.

One i found surprisingly accurate i remember was the rising of 'Lech Walesea' again though, only interpretation. Some say, 'Mandela' but i seem to remember he refered to the 'man they tried to oppress' being from Europe.

That's "found surprisingly accurate" in retrospect? It still stinks of a jerk showing he knows but refusing to tell anyone ahead of time.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:36 pm

spot;1068973 wrote: That's "found surprisingly accurate" in retrospect? It still stinks of a jerk showing he knows but refusing to tell anyone ahead of time.

Yes, naturally in retrospect. It could be nothing else. I just could not find any other leader rising in Europe at that time, when modern day astrologers had calculated his planatry movements to that time.

Post by **spot** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:01 pm

oscar;1069005 wrote: Yes, naturally in retrospect. It could be nothing else. I just could not find any other leader rising in Europe at that time, when modern day astrologers had calculated his planatry movements to that time.

It certainly could be predicted rather than in retrospect, if the information was less cryptic. I think the fact that it's so cryptic is itself an indication that Nostradamus deliberately intended his predictions to go unnoticed until after the events occurred. Why else should he disguise things so consistently? In which case what was his motive for making the predictions?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:07 pm

spot;1069018 wrote: It certainly could be predicted rather than in retrospect, if the information was less cryptic. I think the fact that it's so cryptic is itself an indication that Nostradamus deliberately intended his predictions to go unnoticed until after the events occurred. Why else should he disguise things so consistently? In which case what was his motive for making the predictions?

That's an interesting slant on it. Many of his critics insist he took his writings from 'The Book of Revelations' and tarted them up a bit and deliberately maiking them enigmatic to popularise his mystique.

Post by **spot** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:08 pm

oscar;1069025 wrote: That's an interesting slant on it. Many of his critics insist he took his writings from 'The Book of Revelations' and tarted them up a bit and deliberately maiking them enigmatic to popularise his mystique.

What a jerk, then, knowing and not letting anyone make use of what he knew.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:22 pm

spot;1069027 wrote: What a jerk, then, knowing and not letting anyone make use of what he knew.

Ah....... here is the big question....... DID he really know or was he a complete loon who was deluded with a fixation of impending doom and evil?

Post by **spot** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:38 pm

oscar;1069035 wrote: Ah....... here is the big question....... DID he really know or was he a complete loon who was deluded with a fixation of impending doom and evil?

That depends on whether any of the retrospective identifications are meaningful or not.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:44 pm

spot;1069041 wrote: That depends on whether any of the retrospective identifications are meaningful or not.

Some believe he actually wrote of troubles in his present time but became enigmatic and as cryptic as possible to avoid presecution of his times.

Others believe this also but add that many bogus writers added writings in his name.

The difficulty always has been that we rely solely on interpretation. It is the interpreters wown political stance that can influence the interpretation. I suppose the truth is, he will be a man of history for some time to come yet no-one will ever be sure of the truth.

I must do some more re-reading i think.