LINK
U.S. agrees to Citigroup bailout
Philadelphia Business Journal
The government Sunday night agreed to absorb potentially billion of dollars in losses at Citigroup Inc. and shore up the financial giant with a $20 billion capital injection.
The plan was announced by the Treasury Department, the Federal Reserve and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.
Citigroup (NYSE:C) and the government have targeted a pool of about $306 billion in troubled assets. Citigroup losses from this pool will be capped at $29 billion. The three government agencies would largely take on losses above that from these assets, although Citigroup could still be held responsible for a small portion of them.
The government gets warrants to buy shares in the company. The $20 billion in fresh capital is in addition to a previously announced $25 billion infusion.
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Accountable
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Part of that 700 Billion
And none of the senior executives have been asked to leave......, this is America's biggest bank, and its rotten to the core, it has been run like a bookies. Now your all having to take on more public debt for another round of this morally disgusting corporate socialism; with zero quid pro quo from any of the people responsible.
I think its become impossible to ignore the fact that in reality there is no free market at the moment; instead there are companies being helped by the government with public money, and companies being allowed to fail, but its the government who decides who gets to live and who gets to die. Someone is undoubtedly making a fortune of course in hedging and spreads, of course that probably won't come out for another ten years.
The arrogance and hubris is unbelieveable; at some stage the citizens of the US are going to realize just how badly their interests are being looked after by their own government. Probably at some time in the next 20 years when the bills for all of this deficit can't be hidden away through creative accountancy. Seriously, its gob smacking how inequitous all of this is for ordinary people, who just don't realize that borrowing in defered taxation, and gravy for the rich now to allow them to essentially avoid any consequences in their own lifetimes, means gruel for impoverished future generations.
At some stage there will have to be massive tax rises, across the board to pay for this nonsense. The powers that be are telling people they have economic freedom, while in reality they are pawning the economic future of the children and grandchildren of current taxpayers, and undermining the state itself in the long run. Unbelieveable.
The people on Wall Street and in Federal Government are acting like the French aristocracy in 1788, and at this stage they deserve the same fate. I think what's going on is seriously terrifying, particularly the madness thats going on in the States; what the government is doing is just unsustainable over there, they will bankrupt the country if it goes on like this, no matter who is in charge. The worrying thing is that we are all going to suffer the consequences. :-5
I think its become impossible to ignore the fact that in reality there is no free market at the moment; instead there are companies being helped by the government with public money, and companies being allowed to fail, but its the government who decides who gets to live and who gets to die. Someone is undoubtedly making a fortune of course in hedging and spreads, of course that probably won't come out for another ten years.
The arrogance and hubris is unbelieveable; at some stage the citizens of the US are going to realize just how badly their interests are being looked after by their own government. Probably at some time in the next 20 years when the bills for all of this deficit can't be hidden away through creative accountancy. Seriously, its gob smacking how inequitous all of this is for ordinary people, who just don't realize that borrowing in defered taxation, and gravy for the rich now to allow them to essentially avoid any consequences in their own lifetimes, means gruel for impoverished future generations.
At some stage there will have to be massive tax rises, across the board to pay for this nonsense. The powers that be are telling people they have economic freedom, while in reality they are pawning the economic future of the children and grandchildren of current taxpayers, and undermining the state itself in the long run. Unbelieveable.
The people on Wall Street and in Federal Government are acting like the French aristocracy in 1788, and at this stage they deserve the same fate. I think what's going on is seriously terrifying, particularly the madness thats going on in the States; what the government is doing is just unsustainable over there, they will bankrupt the country if it goes on like this, no matter who is in charge. The worrying thing is that we are all going to suffer the consequences. :-5
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
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Accountable
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Part of that 700 Billion
Galbally;1068180 wrote: The arrogance and hubris is unbelieveable; at some stage the citizens of the US are going to realize just how badly their interests are being looked after by their own government.Yup yup! Like I've been saying all along. And the shame of it all is that millions honestly believe they are effecting change by voting Obama into office.
Part of that 700 Billion
Accountable;1068190 wrote: Yup yup! Like I've been saying all along. And the shame of it all is that millions honestly believe they are effecting change by voting Obama into office.
Again my main comment there would be he can hardly be any worse than the current encumbent, who is supposed to belong to a party whose watchword used to be fiscal rectitude, but instead have acted like drunken sailors who just won the national lottery. These are the people that launched into 2 wars, ran hugely expensive social programs, and cut taxes at the same time???
So instead of tax and spend, you have borrow and spend which is much worse; and just about the fastest way to turn the worlds once only superpower into a North American version of Argentina. Whether McCain or Obama would be much different given that both would face essentially the same disasterous economic situation is of course, a moot point.
Then they make out because they cut some taxes they are conservatives, when in fact they were acting like your typical South American banana republic. The damage from the fiscal policies of the Bush Administration are literally going to take decades to pay off. As for those two wars, you can forget them now, maybe the West will get lucky in Afganistan, I hope so, but I doubt it; you will be lucky to get the military back in one piece from Iraq the way this is going, what a bloody disaster.
As for Obama, I take the point that he is actually extremely limited by the terrible budget situation he is inheriting, just keeping the economy alive is going to be a major achievement for the next 2 years, let alone winning any wars or rebuilding American geopolitical power. Certainly the culture that has caused this is not something that one guy sitting in the Whitehouse can change, whether he actually realizes that the problem is an ingrained one, which is based on almost total national hubris, mixed with denial regarding the consequences of that, is questionable, I don't know.
I do really hope that he can at least start a process where America gives itself some kind of reality check which filters down to ordinary people to start to realize how bad things have become. Otherwise the whole western world faces a calamitously quick decline in an increasingly unstable world.
Again my main comment there would be he can hardly be any worse than the current encumbent, who is supposed to belong to a party whose watchword used to be fiscal rectitude, but instead have acted like drunken sailors who just won the national lottery. These are the people that launched into 2 wars, ran hugely expensive social programs, and cut taxes at the same time???
So instead of tax and spend, you have borrow and spend which is much worse; and just about the fastest way to turn the worlds once only superpower into a North American version of Argentina. Whether McCain or Obama would be much different given that both would face essentially the same disasterous economic situation is of course, a moot point.
Then they make out because they cut some taxes they are conservatives, when in fact they were acting like your typical South American banana republic. The damage from the fiscal policies of the Bush Administration are literally going to take decades to pay off. As for those two wars, you can forget them now, maybe the West will get lucky in Afganistan, I hope so, but I doubt it; you will be lucky to get the military back in one piece from Iraq the way this is going, what a bloody disaster.
As for Obama, I take the point that he is actually extremely limited by the terrible budget situation he is inheriting, just keeping the economy alive is going to be a major achievement for the next 2 years, let alone winning any wars or rebuilding American geopolitical power. Certainly the culture that has caused this is not something that one guy sitting in the Whitehouse can change, whether he actually realizes that the problem is an ingrained one, which is based on almost total national hubris, mixed with denial regarding the consequences of that, is questionable, I don't know.
I do really hope that he can at least start a process where America gives itself some kind of reality check which filters down to ordinary people to start to realize how bad things have become. Otherwise the whole western world faces a calamitously quick decline in an increasingly unstable world.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
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Accountable
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Part of that 700 Billion
Galbally;1068231 wrote: As for Obama, I take the point that he is actually extremely limited by the terrible budget situation he is inheriting, just keeping the economy alive is going to be a major achievement for the next 2 years, let alone winning any wars or rebuilding American geopolitical power. Certainly the culture that has caused this is not something that one guy sitting in the Whitehouse can change, whether he actually realizes that the problem is an ingrained one, which is based on almost total national hubris, mixed with denial regarding the consequences of that, is questionable, I don't know. I care far less about the wars or geopolitical power than I care about how we've abandoned our principles of self-reliance, self-responsibility, and self-determination. Those are the things that made the USA the USA. I fear they may be gone forever. I KNOW they are gone for the foreseeable future.
Our gov't has grown large and malignant. It's probably too late to fix it without radical surgery, but I'll hold out hope for now.
Our gov't has grown large and malignant. It's probably too late to fix it without radical surgery, but I'll hold out hope for now.
Part of that 700 Billion
Accountable;1068190 wrote: Yup yup! Like I've been saying all along. And the shame of it all is that millions honestly believe they are effecting change by voting Obama into office.
At least they aren't voting in more of the same old same old - what would you have them do in a two party monocracy?
At least they aren't voting in more of the same old same old - what would you have them do in a two party monocracy?
Part of that 700 Billion
Bryn Mawr;1068254 wrote: At least they aren't voting in more of the same old same old - what would you have them do in a two party monocracy?
Ummm,
have you seen the line-up for Obama's cabinet?
We're getting the same old, same old ~ from a couple of elections back...
Ummm,
have you seen the line-up for Obama's cabinet?
We're getting the same old, same old ~ from a couple of elections back...
Part of that 700 Billion
Fyrenza;1068263 wrote: Ummm,
have you seen the line-up for Obama's cabinet?
We're getting the same old, same old ~ from a couple of elections back...
You're closer to the detail than I am - are there no different policies on offer?
Sad if not.
have you seen the line-up for Obama's cabinet?
We're getting the same old, same old ~ from a couple of elections back...
You're closer to the detail than I am - are there no different policies on offer?
Sad if not.
Part of that 700 Billion
Accountable;1068247 wrote: I care far less about the wars or geopolitical power than I care about how we've abandoned our principles of self-reliance, self-responsibility, and self-determination. Those are the things that made the USA the USA. I fear they may be gone forever. I KNOW they are gone for the foreseeable future.
Our gov't has grown large and malignant. It's probably too late to fix it without radical surgery, but I'll hold out hope for now.
Accountable, its not just the government, its the whole economic and social rational; I don't know whether your government is too big, but certainly there seems to be massive self-delusion over in the States that America can remain powerful indefinitely while allowing its society to consume way more than it earns and borrowing the rest from foreigners.
In the interim long-term investment is disregarded, and government finance is turned into a farce through increasing borrowing massively, while cutting taxes, and expecting the bond market to pick up the tab. At some point very soon, if the US Administration doesn't stop that, the bond and capital markets are going to turn on the US and the Dollar and your economy will simply implode. Thats the surest way a nation has of destroying its economy and ultimately its sovereignty.
To be honest I weep for my own country because since we came deluded with the seduction of the US-style consumer society in the mid nineties; thats exactly what we have done and now we are screwed. We have borrowed massively, spent on nothing other than pointless luxuries and self-aggrandisement, and now all of sudden there is no money and we have nothing much to show for it other than a load of pointless crap that we don't need like fancy German cars and big houses that people won't be able to afford to heat when we can't pay for oil imports.
In Britain as well today, the government are announcing they are going to throw simply enormous amounts of money at their economy to keep people consuming stuff out of shops and keep lots of hairdressers in work, cut all sorts of taxes for a year and then have to claw them all back (when miraculously the British economy starts to grow in 6 months time, despite the rest of the world being a deflationary depression). There seems to be no real idea of how in the long-term they are going to make the economy sustainable, and improve Britain's balance of trade and earnings. Its my guess that if growth doesn't pick up almost imeadiately in 2010 Britain will simply drown in a sea of debt and Sterling will go down the toilet. It does feel like one of those days where the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
Our gov't has grown large and malignant. It's probably too late to fix it without radical surgery, but I'll hold out hope for now.
Accountable, its not just the government, its the whole economic and social rational; I don't know whether your government is too big, but certainly there seems to be massive self-delusion over in the States that America can remain powerful indefinitely while allowing its society to consume way more than it earns and borrowing the rest from foreigners.
In the interim long-term investment is disregarded, and government finance is turned into a farce through increasing borrowing massively, while cutting taxes, and expecting the bond market to pick up the tab. At some point very soon, if the US Administration doesn't stop that, the bond and capital markets are going to turn on the US and the Dollar and your economy will simply implode. Thats the surest way a nation has of destroying its economy and ultimately its sovereignty.
To be honest I weep for my own country because since we came deluded with the seduction of the US-style consumer society in the mid nineties; thats exactly what we have done and now we are screwed. We have borrowed massively, spent on nothing other than pointless luxuries and self-aggrandisement, and now all of sudden there is no money and we have nothing much to show for it other than a load of pointless crap that we don't need like fancy German cars and big houses that people won't be able to afford to heat when we can't pay for oil imports.
In Britain as well today, the government are announcing they are going to throw simply enormous amounts of money at their economy to keep people consuming stuff out of shops and keep lots of hairdressers in work, cut all sorts of taxes for a year and then have to claw them all back (when miraculously the British economy starts to grow in 6 months time, despite the rest of the world being a deflationary depression). There seems to be no real idea of how in the long-term they are going to make the economy sustainable, and improve Britain's balance of trade and earnings. Its my guess that if growth doesn't pick up almost imeadiately in 2010 Britain will simply drown in a sea of debt and Sterling will go down the toilet. It does feel like one of those days where the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Part of that 700 Billion
Fyrenza;1068263 wrote: Ummm,
have you seen the line-up for Obama's cabinet?
We're getting the same old, same old ~ from a couple of elections back...
At least some of those people were involved in balanced budgets. I don't know enough about US politics to say any more about them, but I can see where you are coming from.
have you seen the line-up for Obama's cabinet?
We're getting the same old, same old ~ from a couple of elections back...
At least some of those people were involved in balanced budgets. I don't know enough about US politics to say any more about them, but I can see where you are coming from.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
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Accountable
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Part of that 700 Billion
Bryn Mawr;1068254 wrote: At least they aren't voting in more of the same old same old - what would you have them do in a two party monocracy?
Fyrenza's right. To quote Joe-rock O'Biden, "That's not change; that's more of the same." Most of the new team came from the Clinton administration.
As for the monocracy, I'll keep banging my drum and crying out in the wilderness hoping that someone, anyone, is listening an heeding.
Fyrenza's right. To quote Joe-rock O'Biden, "That's not change; that's more of the same." Most of the new team came from the Clinton administration.
As for the monocracy, I'll keep banging my drum and crying out in the wilderness hoping that someone, anyone, is listening an heeding.
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Oscar Namechange
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fyrenza;1068263 wrote: ummm,
have you seen the line-up for obama's cabinet?
We're getting the same old, same old ~ from a couple of elections back...
clinton in female form omg
have you seen the line-up for obama's cabinet?
We're getting the same old, same old ~ from a couple of elections back...
clinton in female form omg
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Accountable.. If it's of interest, this is what our government has done today. I'd like your thoughts and how it is compared to Obama's plans for recovery?
Latest UK News Headlines | Times Online News
Latest UK News Headlines | Times Online News
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Accountable
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oscar;1068310 wrote: Accountable.. If it's of interest, this is what our government has done today. I'd like your thoughts and how it is compared to Obama's plans for recovery?
Latest UK News Headlines | Times Online News
It's not of particular interest. I wish you well, but your way ... and Obama's ... and any federalized or nationalized program ... goes against the American way. I don't expect you to change your mind or even understand.
Latest UK News Headlines | Times Online News
It's not of particular interest. I wish you well, but your way ... and Obama's ... and any federalized or nationalized program ... goes against the American way. I don't expect you to change your mind or even understand.
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Accountable;1068351 wrote: It's not of particular interest. I wish you well, but your way ... and Obama's ... and any federalized or nationalized program ... goes against the American way. I don't expect you to change your mind or even understand.
I'm just interested in weather he will be raising taxes on all or weather he will tax the wealthy as Brown has done here. It would have been interesting to see how the two countrie's with different methods of economic recovery will eventually pan out.
Brown's borrowing has come under fierce critisism today and i wondered if Obama will be doing similar.
I'm just interested in weather he will be raising taxes on all or weather he will tax the wealthy as Brown has done here. It would have been interesting to see how the two countrie's with different methods of economic recovery will eventually pan out.
Brown's borrowing has come under fierce critisism today and i wondered if Obama will be doing similar.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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oscar;1068364 wrote: I'm just interested in weather he will be raising taxes on all or weather he will tax the wealthy as Brown has done here. It would have been interesting to see how the two countrie's with different methods of economic recovery will eventually pan out.
Brown's borrowing has come under fierce critisism today and i wondered if Obama will be doing similar.
Obama's not pres. until January. I'm more concerned about Bush/Paulson.
Brown's borrowing has come under fierce critisism today and i wondered if Obama will be doing similar.
Obama's not pres. until January. I'm more concerned about Bush/Paulson.
Part of that 700 Billion
Accountable;1068595 wrote: Obama's not pres. until January. I'm more concerned about Bush/Paulson.#
Yes, the Bush/Paulson tribute band just blew another 800 billion of your money on corporate America today, thats 1.5 trillion so far on corporate welfare checks. I wonder how much they can spend by January 19th 2009? There is always Iran I guess. Maybe order a couple of new Battleships, oh and give Lookheed Martin a couple of trillion for a new missile to blow up the moon before the commies (sorry I mean the wonderful and hardworking Chinese people) land on it.
Yes, the Bush/Paulson tribute band just blew another 800 billion of your money on corporate America today, thats 1.5 trillion so far on corporate welfare checks. I wonder how much they can spend by January 19th 2009? There is always Iran I guess. Maybe order a couple of new Battleships, oh and give Lookheed Martin a couple of trillion for a new missile to blow up the moon before the commies (sorry I mean the wonderful and hardworking Chinese people) land on it.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
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wildhorses
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Accountable;1068190 wrote: Yup yup! Like I've been saying all along. And the shame of it all is that millions honestly believe they are effecting change by voting Obama into office.
Even our founding fathers would have a hard time cleaning this mess up....and they created the system. It has been bastardized to the bone.
Even our founding fathers would have a hard time cleaning this mess up....and they created the system. It has been bastardized to the bone.
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wildhorses
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Accountable;1068351 wrote: It's not of particular interest. I wish you well, but your way ... and Obama's ... and any federalized or nationalized program ... goes against the American way. I don't expect you to change your mind or even understand.
I dont agree. This country had socialism during the 50's and 60's....and that worked pretty well till it was eroded away by corporate facism and corruption.
I dont agree. This country had socialism during the 50's and 60's....and that worked pretty well till it was eroded away by corporate facism and corruption.
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wildhorses;1069060 wrote: I dont agree. This country had socialism during the 50's and 60's....and that worked pretty well till it was eroded away by corporate facism and corruption.
Socialism goes against the tenets of our founding documents and the advice of our founding fathers.
Socialism goes against the tenets of our founding documents and the advice of our founding fathers.
Part of that 700 Billion
Accountable;1069072 wrote: Socialism goes against the tenets of our founding documents and the advice of our founding fathers.
I am not sure socialism even existed as an idea in the 1770s so I am not sure about them being overly alarmed by that, as opposed to Absolutist Monarchy. Though if socialism is against the principals of the Declaration of Independence, so is allowing totally self-interested and unaccountable big business to set the economic and political agenda for your Republic. I remember saying to you years ago that the main problem that the US faced was the erosion of its way of life by the pernicious influence of business interests on the body politic and the law, and so it has proven to be.
The real danger for states as powerful as the US usually comes from within. It is to be hoped that the American Republic will recover in time, and never allow the political destiny of its people to be decided again by well-suited men in corporate boardrooms in New York, but by representatives of the people in Washington and in the State Capitals. They have been telling you for decades to fear the non-existent socialists like the anti-christ, yet it is they who have undermined your State.
I am not sure socialism even existed as an idea in the 1770s so I am not sure about them being overly alarmed by that, as opposed to Absolutist Monarchy. Though if socialism is against the principals of the Declaration of Independence, so is allowing totally self-interested and unaccountable big business to set the economic and political agenda for your Republic. I remember saying to you years ago that the main problem that the US faced was the erosion of its way of life by the pernicious influence of business interests on the body politic and the law, and so it has proven to be.
The real danger for states as powerful as the US usually comes from within. It is to be hoped that the American Republic will recover in time, and never allow the political destiny of its people to be decided again by well-suited men in corporate boardrooms in New York, but by representatives of the people in Washington and in the State Capitals. They have been telling you for decades to fear the non-existent socialists like the anti-christ, yet it is they who have undermined your State.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
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Accountable
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Galbally;1069136 wrote: I am not sure socialism even existed as an idea in the 1770s so I am not sure about them being overly alarmed by that, as opposed to Absolutist Monarchy. Though if socialism is against the principals of the Declaration of Independence, so is allowing totally self-interested and unaccountable big business to set the economic and political agenda for your Republic.Agreed. The only acceptable domestic function of gov't in the USA is to keep honest people honest. They have failed miserably in this regard, distracted by efforts of individual politicians' desire for reelection and campaign contributions.
Part of that 700 Billion
wildhorses;1069060 wrote: I dont agree. This country had socialism during the 50's and 60's....and that worked pretty well till it was eroded away by corporate facism and corruption.
Wasn't the 50s the time of the McCarthy witch-hunts? Hardly a Socialist environment
Wasn't the 50s the time of the McCarthy witch-hunts? Hardly a Socialist environment