Feminists

[Betty Boop]

Do you consider yourself a 'feminist' ??

Do we need to continue to fight for equal rights anymore, are we all treated equally nowadays?

[chonsigirl]

Things are better, but I still find it disconcerting if my husband and I are out together for an appointment, and they call for Dr. Chonsi and look directly at him. :rolleyes:

I know at the small university I often teach at, the ratio of male to female is uneven in their respective fields. I didn't complain much one year when I was the only female-naughty of me with all that attention-but very unfair when I know there are female instructors capable of teaching those courses too.

[Odie]

We have come along way, no doubt about it!

but some things will always remain for men.

[Betty Boop]

chonsigirl;1070539 wrote: Things are better, but I still find it disconcerting if my husband and I are out together for an appointment, and they call for Dr. Chonsi and look directly at him. :rolleyes:

I know at the small university I often teach at, the ratio of male to female is uneven in their respective fields. I didn't complain much one year when I was the only female-naughty of me with all that attention-but very unfair when I know there are female instructors capable of teaching those courses too.


The university campus I am on is small, the male lecturers are equal in number to the females at the moment and the ones at the top are females - yaaaay! :wah:

What I found interesting is that the younger students, ie the 18 year olds fresh from A levels believe we are now living within an equal society. They cannot see that women are often doing the same job as men and getting paid less. As far as they are concerned we no longer need feminism as the jobs been done. These girls have all come from comfortable and well off families though, I wonder if they had come from the working classes would they hold the same view.

[spot]

Betty Boop;1070535 wrote: Do you consider yourself a 'feminist' ??This is a trick question, isn't it. Do I get hit if I say yes?

[Betty Boop]

Odie;1070542 wrote: We have come along way, no doubt about it!

but some things will always remain for men.


Yes, I'd like to see a world of equals with the 'differences' being accepted. Men are different to women, just as women are different to men, but everyone is an individual with their own weaknesses and strengths. No one person should have 'power' over another. Just as no one class should have power over another - but thats just Utopia hey :-2

[Betty Boop]

spot;1070551 wrote: This is a trick question, isn't it. Do I get hit if I say yes?


Nope, you get a hug, a man can be a feminist! :wah:

[spot]

Betty Boop;1070553 wrote: Nope, you get a hug, a man can be a feminist! :wah:


That's a relief then. I've read books about it too.

[Lenn]

Betty Boop;1070535 wrote: Do you consider yourself a 'feminist' ??

Do we need to continue to fight for equal rights anymore, are we all treated equally nowadays?


Unfortunately, there's a need of a constant fight, 'cause there are countries where someone talking about equal rights of men and women is just mocked and where men and women are really treated in a completely different way. I mean the countries of eastern Europe, such as Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Ukraine and - last but not least - Russia. I think it demands a lot of work to change anything in these countries, it will take years to remove old stereotypes and I dare to have a pessimistic view as to the issue if it is possible at all to make men and women totally equal in their legal status. And yes, I am very keen on feminism. Besides, what might seem strange - I can see the movement becomes more and more popular in my country too.

[Odie]

Betty Boop;1070552 wrote: Yes, I'd like to see a world of equals with the 'differences' being accepted. Men are different to women, just as women are different to men, but everyone is an individual with their own weaknesses and strengths. No one person should have 'power' over another. Just as no one class should have power over another - but thats just Utopia hey :-2


It should be equal everything in so many ways I agree, and no one person should have power over another human being.



Power can be a huge weekness in some, they are insecure about their own self, so portray power thinking it will help them look good and feel good, but in real fact, they are hurting others and just don't care.

They say working women dressed in red or have red nail polish is a sign of power.

If you have to wear something to tell others you have power, or show power in a way of insecurity.......some have a huge problem.

[Betty Boop]

spot;1070563 wrote: That's a relief then. I've read books about it too.


Any you can recommend, just finished Woolf and read some essays by Andrea Dworkin that upset the youngsters terribly :wah:

[Betty Boop]

Lenn;1070568 wrote: Unfortunately, there's a need of a constant fight, 'cause there are countries where someone talking about equal rights of men and women is just mocked and where men and women are really treated in a completely different way. I mean the countries of eastern Europe, such as Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Ukraine and - last but not least - Russia. I think it demands a lot of work to change anything in these countries, it will take years to remove old stereotypes and I dare to have a pessimistic view as to the issue if it is possible at all to make men and women totally equal in their legal status. And yes, I am very keen on feminism. Besides, what might seem strange - I can see the movement becomes more and more popular in my country too.


Thats what frustrates me about the girls I'm at uni with, all they can see is whats happening in their little bubbles. :rolleyes: Welcome to the garden Lenn :-6

[spot]

Susie Orbach, definitely. Angela Davies. Germaine Greer on the downside of the nuclear family.

[Ally]

Germaine Greer OMG nobody listens to her do they.:yh_laugh

[Oscar Namechange]

We were buying a new bed only a few years ago. It was actually my money but that's not the point, it's OUR money. Anyway, We had this female assisstant in a large store and we were discussing how hard.. soft the mattress should be etc. All the way through, this woman kept looking at Mr Oscar and directing the questions at him. I was slowly getting more and more peeved until finally she made a stupid comment that just about did it.

They had this bed which was soft mattress one side and firm the next. She said to me 'So dear, when hubby puts his socks on early in the morning to go to work on the side of the bed, you won't feel a dent'.

I just looked at her and said 'Are you on commission?' She looked surprised but said 'yes, i am on some commission'. I said 'Good, because you've just lost a £600 sale you stupid woman'. With that, i walked out leaving her with her mouth open.

We went to another store and got the same bed because the salesman looked at me when he was talking to us.

[Ally]

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

[Oscar Namechange]

Ally;1070715 wrote: Germaine Greer OMG nobody listens to her do they.:yh_laugh


Not in my house they don't. I think she damaged women more than helped the feminist movement.

[Ally]

spot on oscar.

[OpenMind]

I think that women are a long way off yet to getting what they now legally deserve. Men and women doing the same job should get the same rate of pay but often women defer to a lower rate. Aparently, many women still feel psychologically that they will get less. Women need to get beyond this. The law is behind them but a lot of women are failing themselves.

The other side however, is that now you find that both partners in a marriage have to go to work to make ends meet. The economy has now adjusted itself to create this need and I don't think it is a healthy situation. This creates other problems where children are concerned. This needs re-addressing as I believe that while it is the woman's right to go to work if she wants to, it should also be the right of a couple to allow one of them to stay at home if they want. That choice just isn't there anymore for the majority of households. Society is becoming more fragmented because of this situation.

[el guapo]

Betty Boop;1070535 wrote: Do you consider yourself a 'feminist' ??

Do we need to continue to fight for equal rights anymore, are we all treated equally nowadays?


do you mean lesbianoo

[Ally]

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl jimbo( a bit out of context tho.)

[weeder]

It is a mans world. Despite having lived my life as a member of my sex who strived to change that fact, I feel it always will be. It doesnt matter what you accomplish, how capable you are, or how smart, the way you are viewed remains tainted by your gender. Super acheiving women are seen as being masculine, or peculiar, or odd. The group most responsible for these facts, are the women who raise sons. They either perpetuate the notion that women were born mainly to cater to the needs of men, or they allow the men in their lives to treat them as subservients in front of their sons ( and daughters). Ive seen a teeny tiny number of relationships, where the husband and wife seem to consider each other to be equals. In the work place, I have seen none. Even when a female is in the role of supervisor, or boss, the men are resentful, and often hateful. A woman is expected to be humble, even when being honored for an achievement. And if she cares at all about apperances she must juggle success along with trying to maintain a feminine attitude and apperance. There does exist an army of women who have given up on being interested in the opinions of men. Women who focus on striving to be the best they can be, for the world, and themselves. You will most often find these women to be single. It will take a very long time for this kind of female to multiply in numbers large enough to be role models for very young women. The women of my era who lived during the Betty Friedan days, and the Gloria Steinum days are aging, and almost gone. The younger women today, do not have role models to study, and so it is almost like they have regressed. Raised in households that still consider women to be second class citizens, they go into this world having to learn ( if they ever do ) what their true worth is, as they struggle in relationships that keep them down. This cycle takes years. Your outlook regarding the statements I make, will be influenced depending on where you live your life, and what you observe. The part of the country (US) or part of the world. If your a professional, or a student, or a home maker. The label " Feminist " has always been a laughable title, prone to comments that ridicule. Believing in the God given rights of women, and believing that they are equal to ( not better than) men, is a state of mind, and a belief that lives in the very being of strong women. This state of mind is found in very rare cases naturally in a very young female, or it is learned as a young woman travels through life.

Older women continue to have a responsibility to not only be role models, but to teach young women to have pride in themselves, let them know that they can be anything they want to be, and to encourage them not to live their lives as domestics ( only ) making their choices second to the expectations of men.

[SuzyB]

fuzzy butt;1071855 wrote: I'm just wondering what each of you think "equality" is?


Equal rights for people no matter their race, religion, sex, size

[spot]

fuzzy butt;1071855 wrote: I'm just wondering what each of you think "equality" is?


I think one can have a dual goal for equality of race, religion, gender and sexuality and that both can be directly measurable.

1. An equality of aspiration in any field - politics, administration, running private enterprise, flying airliners, writing novels. If you can find a field in which the aspiration to achieve differs by race or by gender or by religion or by sexuality then you have evidence of discrimination and a target for improvement.

2. An equality of achievement in each of those fields by each of those groups.

A lack of one influences the success of the other. If there's no equality of achievement then aspiration will diminish. If there's no equality of aspiration then achievement will diminish. Both need working on. Once both are established then equality exists.

[OpenMind]

fuzzy butt;1071855 wrote: I'm just wondering what each of you think "equality" is?


Both get the right to be on top 50% of the time.:sneaky:

[Betty Boop]

OpenMind;1071949 wrote: Both get the right to be on top 50% of the time.:sneaky:


:rolleyes: then both get to have control of the frying pan 50% of the time, duck OM! :p

[spot]

fuzzy butt;1071875 wrote: Abolish prostitution completely?Last time I checked, prostitution was open to both sexes and the laws made no distinction between them.

[OpenMind]

Betty Boop;1071952 wrote: :rolleyes: then both get to have control of the frying pan 50% of the time, duck OM! :p


Depends on what you're going to do with it. !!!!!!!

:wah:

[SuzyB]

fuzzy butt;1071875 wrote: Yeah but is that just in the work place ? what about in sport, and in the home and clubs in spiritual/religious terms?

In sporting events I dont think it could work, men tend to be physically stronger than women, they are more muscular than us, so we would be the underdog most of the time. In the home I believe that you can have total equality and in many households this is happening right now, now religion is a tricky one, I dont think that equality will happen in many faiths, I mean look at the wedding service when you say that you will 'obey' I am so glad that that was changed :wah: Relgion is so old school and I dont mean that disrespectfully but they are following ways from day dot, a lot of it you have to adapt to modern living, thats what i like about my church, its a realistic one.



We have laws specifically to protect women ..............should we abolish them . should we ban make up ? should we stop buying bras ? Abolish prostitution completely? Ban dressess? Glamour magazines that dumb us down?

I dont think anything should be banned and as for the above I know many guys that do the above Can you imagine the sights if women stopped wearing bras, before my reduction they were dragging on the floor without one...not a nice look :yh_rotfl

that's what I mean by how everyone sees equality?

who is in charge of taking the bins to the curb or mowing the lawn or painting the house .....................it's usually the men. Are we talking about a reversal of roles how do we split all the jobs up? do we tell men to begin getting the coffees in the office? or do we have one day off one day on to spread the work load around between mates?

Just not sure what "equality" is, it seems to change. (shrugs)


I think many women are used to doing the above jobs most of my friends have been bringing up children in a single parent family, so they have to do it or it dont get done!

[mikeinie]

As a man I think there have been significant changes. I hope that I am not wrong.

What surprises me more than anything though is how women keep each other down. You get a successful woman and all that is talked about by other woman is the cloths that she wears or the way her hair looks, is she putting on weight? Or how badly she was dressed for that meeting.

In my working experiences, women managers have such a harder time managing other women then they do men, the back biting and the attempts to undermine them by their female colleagues is incredible.

I think it is much harder for woman to be in management positions not because of how men treat them, but because how they are treated by other women.

[SuzyB]

mikeinie;1071989 wrote: As a man I think there have been significant changes. I hope that I am not wrong.

What surprises me more than anything though is how women keep each other down. You get a successful woman and all that is talked about by other woman is the cloths that she wears or the way her hair looks, is she putting on weight? Or how badly she was dressed for that meeting.

In my working experiences, women managers have such a harder time managing other women then they do men, the back biting and the attempts to undermine them by their female colleagues is incredible.

I think it is much harder for woman to be in management positions not because of how men treat them, but because how they are treated by other women.


You do have a point there, most women are ar5eholes and that isn't meant nastily but I hate gossipy women, i'd rather watcha footy game in the pub, pint in hand with a bunch of guys:D

[OpenMind]

There are many things that have been adopted by each gender according to what was expedient or economical. I notice that no one has yet mentioned the situation where the woman goes out to work, does all the housework, et al, while the guy just dosses. There are communities in Africa where this is the norm too. The woman's role changes also between the different classes.

There was a time in the history of the human race when the only people who married were the Rajahs and Jews. Later, business men became wealthy enough to also be able to afford a harem. A woman in a harem had a better chance at life than one who was not in one.

The economy dictates the roles and so does psychology. It is not politics. Politically, in the UK at any rate, every individual has the same rights now. It is only a couple of centuries hence since women won the right to have custody of their offspring over the father.

They say it's a man's world. But it is also said that behind every great man is a great woman. Gender equality in this country at least is a product of economics and social psychology.

[kazalala]

oscar;1070740 wrote: We were buying a new bed only a few years ago. It was actually my money but that's not the point, it's OUR money. Anyway, We had this female assisstant in a large store and we were discussing how hard.. soft the mattress should be etc. All the way through, this woman kept looking at Mr Oscar and directing the questions at him. I was slowly getting more and more peeved until finally she made a stupid comment that just about did it.

They had this bed which was soft mattress one side and firm the next. She said to me 'So dear, when hubby puts his socks on early in the morning to go to work on the side of the bed, you won't feel a dent'.

I just looked at her and said 'Are you on commission?' She looked surprised but said 'yes, i am on some commission'. I said 'Good, because you've just lost a £600 sale you stupid woman'. With that, i walked out leaving her with her mouth open.

We went to another store and got the same bed because the salesman looked at me when he was talking to us.


That happened to me once too:yh_rotfl only it was a sofa and the salesperson was a man. I told him how very rude he was being even to the point of ignoring me when i asked questions, and how did he know who was actually paying for the sofa, and didnt he realise women make most of the final decisions when ti comes to shopping anyway:yh_rotfl

[BTS]

Jester;1072053 wrote: Yes I do, I love feminins. Therfore I am a feminaist!



Wanna dance darlin? :-4


Well shucks.......golly I am a lesbian and I would feel honored to dance one with you Jes...OOOPs I meant Darlin,... Darlin



Wass you say to Boot Scoot Boogie

That song Always gets me panties in a bunch

[Betty Boop]

Jester;1072053 wrote: Yes I do, I love feminins. Therfore I am a feminaist!

Wanna dance darlin? :-4


Only if I lead :wah:

I agree with Mike, other women and their jealousies appear to be the biggest obstacles in a lot of areas.

Within the uni I constantly hear the 18 year olds bitching about the lecturers and fellow students and what they are wearing. They were laughing at a female lecturer wearing a leather jacket, their words were that she was too old, I was gobsmacked, the lecturer in question could possibly be late thirties early forties.

[BTS]

Jester;1072072 wrote: Knot you- you Knothead...



I was after Betty Boop, now ya done chased her off. :yh_rotfl


Oh no.....

So no boot scootin..........just Boop Scootin.......:guitarist



Ok, fine I get it, some feminist you are, turning down a fine lesbian such as I:-5:-5.



You know there must be a unwritten law of feminism surely you just broke.

[AussiePam]

Betty Boop;1070535 wrote:

Do we need to continue to fight for equal rights anymore, are we all treated equally nowadays?


While so many of our sisters are not free to leave their houses, get an education, work in paid employment, make decisions for themselves and their children, have equal access to the law, share political power etc - we all need to fight on.

[AussiePam]

Jester;1072167 wrote: Is it that they don't take advantage of it Pammie?

It seems that way here too, while the feminists have made the laws work equitibly here I find that the largest group chooses traditional roles and enjoy it.


I'm not quite sure what this means, Jester. I guess American women in this forum will know. But if educated women have free choice and have chosen and enjoy whatever this traditional role is (maybe in a church group where they wear long skirts and sit separately from the men), then they have achieved everything a "feminist" would want for them.

My concern is for my sisters in countries where women are not permitted education but in fact are conditioned meekly to accept the role imposed upon them. Never having, for example, been permitted to leave their house, they may in fact be unable to do so, may even choose not to do so. They have not been allowed to develop what Spot called "aspiration" and their apparent choice is not then free.

[Omni_Skittles]

Betty Boop;1070535 wrote: Do you consider yourself a 'feminist' ??

Do we need to continue to fight for equal rights anymore, are we all treated equally nowadays? I can't say that i'm a feminist because I've been able to do all the things i've wanted to do, even when i was younger living on the reservation. Sometimes i've been able to do a guys job better then a guy could. Other times i physically can't do things... I think i should be able to do what i want to do. everything else argued about is just mumble jumble to me. I can't say that i understand different cultures so i can't say anything about that.

[AussiePam]

I suppose if I had to choose a label - and I hate labels - I'd call myself a post-feminist.

For me this means, because of the hard work of my mother's and grandmother's generation - I can now take for granted - in Australia - a whole number of things lacking to many of my sisters in other lands.

These include: that my daughters and granddaughters can get a decent education (when my mother attended school, girls' education was all geared towards making them advantageously marriageable), that they can choose a career (not long ago, there were female careers like teaching, librarianship, nursing and you were laughed at if you aspired to becoming a doctor or a busdriver or a radio officer in the nay. And a woman had to leave Government employment upon her marriage), that we would earn the same as a man in a similar position (when I started work, men with less qualifications than mine were paid considerably more, just because they were male - unrelated to marital status), that my daughters and granddaughters can move on in their career, according to ability not gender (that has improved), that they can own properly and manage their finances (as an adult, a graduate with a first class honours degree and a job working for the then Prime Minister I still needed a male guarantor - unemployed was fine - in order to get a credit card).

There are many women in Australia who choose not to marry, or choose to marry and not have children. I have no problem with this. I did choose to marry and have children, to stay at home when my children were small, to return to work. I cook and do probably more than half of the household chores. Our household has never been governed by a male head, anointed by God. Decisions are made by consultation with all members. I come and go freely, including overseas on my own when I want to. As a whole I'm happy in my life. And so, I believe are my menfolk, to whom I'm fiercely loyal. My children are feisty and bolshie like me, and of course fabulous!!!