Any Doubts?

QUINNSCOMMENTARY · Post by **QUINNSCOMMENTARY** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:18 am

It hasn't been a front page issue for awhile, but yesterday, we heard the words terrorist atack once again. OK, so it's far away in India. No it's not okay especially as long as you hear those words I am frankly sick of, Islamic Radicals or Fundamentalist or Terrorists.

Let's hope dealing with the economy does not so divert us that we forget what the real threat is against our way of life.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:33 pm

QUINNSCOMMENTARY;1070287 wrote: It hasn't been a front page issue for awhile, but yesterday, we heard the words terrorist atack once again. OK, so it's far away in India. No it's not okay especially as long as you hear those words I am frankly sick of, Islamic Radicals or Fundamentalist or Terrorists.

Let's hope dealing with the economy does not so divert us that we forget what the real threat is against our way of life.

It's the morons that almost turned america in to a corporatist state have wrecked your economy and almost bankrupted you. Who do you think it is?

wildhorses · Post by **wildhorses** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:02 pm

QUINNSCOMMENTARY;1070287 wrote: It hasn't been a front page issue for awhile, but yesterday, we heard the words terrorist atack once again. OK, so it's far away in India. No it's not okay especially as long as you hear those words I am frankly sick of, Islamic Radicals or Fundamentalist or Terrorists.

Let's hope dealing with the economy does not so divert us that we forget what the real threat is against our way of life.

True. We cant take our eye off the ball when it comes to terrorism. Our economy does need work....but what good is an economy if we get blown up by terrorists?

QUINNSCOMMENTARY · Post by **QUINNSCOMMENTARY** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:35 pm

gmc;1070467 wrote: It's the morons that almost turned america in to a corporatist state have wrecked your economy and almost bankrupted you. Who do you think it is?

That is nonsense. The problems we face today are the result of one thing and one thing only and that is a consumer economy built on a house of cards, one in which people bought what they could not afford whether it be a house, use of home equity or credit cards. The financial institutions then bundled and sold this stuff without understanding or regard to the risks it represented. Now there is such fear that even people who are not at risk of losing their job are afraid to buy anything or are unable to get what otherwise would be legitimate credit and the snowball is going downhill.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:57 am

QUINNSCOMMENTARY;1070633 wrote: That is nonsense. The problems we face today are the result of one thing and one thing only and that is a consumer economy built on a house of cards, one in which people bought what they could not afford whether it be a house, use of home equity or credit cards. The financial institutions then bundled and sold this stuff without understanding or regard to the risks it represented. Now there is such fear that even people who are not at risk of losing their job are afraid to buy anything or are unable to get what otherwise would be legitimate credit and the snowball is going downhill.

Who benefited from allowing all that to happen and indeed took steps to remove any kind of market control? What do you think a corporatist state looks like. Have any of those in the institutions responsible for such irresponsibility been called to account yet?

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:14 am

Yes indeed, it is a very difficult moment for the Western powers; the self-defeating nature of the economics that have been practiced for decades, the undermining of social structures and cultural values based on the fad of commercial interest, and politically correct ideas about multiculturalism and personal freedom verging on the irresponsible; the dumbing down of culture and education and the flight from rationality and the rise of the new religiosity are all starting to come home to roost at the same time.

Coming down the line you have an increasingly unstable climate that is going to lead to climate-related disasters of probably unprecedented scale; the reaching of peak oil in the near future; the emergence of new centres of power in the globe (which seem to be lead by people with a much more hard-headed, long-term approach to life than our own "shop today, pay tomorrow" leaders), and of course throw into this mix the heady effects of the current movement within Islam which seeks direct violent confrontation with all non Muslims to further the spread of extremist Islam across the globe.

Its probably true to say that the next couple of decades are going to be very testing for Westerners and their cherished beliefs about themselves and their previously unshakeable belief in their unspoken position at the top of the tree on planet earth.

The world is changing very rapidly now, some of it is for the good, some of it isn't; and some of it is extremely dangerous. What I do know, is that if Westerners in Europe and America don't wake up and stop indulging themselves in their foolish inanities, luxuries, and navel gazing their civilization is going to continue to degenerate and decline, and rightly so.

Post by **spot** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:51 am

QUINNSCOMMENTARY;1070287 wrote: It hasn't been a front page issue for awhile, but yesterday, we heard the words terrorist atack once again. OK, so it's far away in India. No it's not okay especially as long as you hear those words I am frankly sick of, Islamic Radicals or Fundamentalist or Terrorists.You know what I put the huge increase in Islamic fundamentalism down to? That bastard in the White House saying "Bring'em on", that's what. He's God's Gift to every Islamic fundamentalist rabble-rouser on the planet.

QUINNSCOMMENTARY · Post by **QUINNSCOMMENTARY** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:01 pm

gmc;1070859 wrote: Who benefited from allowing all that to happen and indeed took steps to remove any kind of market control? What do you think a corporatist state looks like. Have any of those in the institutions responsible for such irresponsibility been called to account yet?

Allow it to happen? It's not like there was some big conspiracy with one group doing it all. There were many moving parts each looking out for its own interest and each not being able to adequately assess and manage the risk or being too free at simply rolling the dice. Thousands of people have lost their jobs, bonuses have disappeared as have several organizations, people are losing their homes. It would seem to me that all the players are being negatively affected.

The real issue is that people who did not play this game are being affected as well and we all did not understand how all this was connected. The only ones not being held to account are the politicians who set up much of this in the mortgage area.

QUINNSCOMMENTARY · Post by **QUINNSCOMMENTARY** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:05 pm

The world is changing very rapidly now, some of it is for the good, some of it isn't; and some of it is extremely dangerous. What I do know, is that if Westerners in Europe and America don't wake up and stop indulging themselves in their foolish inanities, luxuries, and navel gazing their civilization is going to continue to degenerate and decline, and rightly so.

Sad to say I suspect you are right, but I am not sure about the "rightly so" part.

QUINNSCOMMENTARY · Post by **QUINNSCOMMENTARY** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:09 pm

spot;1070876 wrote: You know what I put the huge increase in Islamic fundamentalism down to? That bastard in the White House saying "Bring'em on", that's what. He's God's Gift to every Islamic fundamentalist rabble-rouser on the planet.

That seems a bit shortsighted given that statement was made (perhaps irrespnsibly) AFTER 9/11 and thus it surely did not cause any of the actions on and before 9/11.

There is something fundamentally wrong with a religion centered in the 7th century, born out of violence with no central organization and so easily corrupted by individuals and groups. Add to that the poverty and illiteracy and governments of the Middle East and you have a deadly mix.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:38 pm

QUINNSCOMMENTARY;1071270 wrote:

There is something fundamentally wrong with a religion born out of violence with no central organization and so easily corrupted by individuals and groups.

What religion would THIS be describing ?

QUINNSCOMMENTARY · Post by **QUINNSCOMMENTARY** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:41 pm

Bruv;1071369 wrote: What religion would THIS be describing ?

Guess

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:32 am

QUINNSCOMMENTARY;1071266 wrote: Sad to say I suspect you are right, but I am not sure about the "rightly so" part.

My point is that civilizations that succumb to hubris, decadent posturing, and pointless introspection will eventually fail, and ultimately, they deserve to. No matter how high minded their ideals are.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:45 am

QUINNSCOMMENTARY;1071400 wrote: Guess
Christianity ?

Post by **spot** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:05 am

QUINNSCOMMENTARY;1071270 wrote: That seems a bit shortsighted given that statement was made (perhaps irrespnsibly) AFTER 9/11 and thus it surely did not cause any of the actions on and before 9/11.

And when did the the huge increase in Islamic fundamentalism happen? It was a minor irritant before 9/11, yes? And it's a huge concern to everyone now? So somewhere after 9/11 there's a pivot about which the huge increase turns. What's the pivot? The bring'em on attitude instead of any attempt to handle matters rationally. Bush stoking up the fight in preference to arresting the perpetrators.

QUINNSCOMMENTARY · Post by **QUINNSCOMMENTARY** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:25 am

spot;1071624 wrote: And when did the the huge increase in Islamic fundamentalism happen? It was a minor irritant before 9/11, yes? And it's a huge concern to everyone now? So somewhere after 9/11 there's a pivot about which the huge increase turns. What's the pivot? The bring'em on attitude instead of any attempt to handle matters rationally. Bush stoking up the fight in preference to arresting the perpetrators.

As I am sure you realize the planning for 9/11 took a very long time so I think it is fair to say that the problem began long before Bush opened his mouth. 9/11 likely accomplished exactly what they wanted, to draw the US into a conflict. The real question is was it truly necessary to go into Iraq and start a war? There is no question that rallied the troops for the fundamentalists because they then had a very visible cause to point to.

I tend to think the absence of the war in Iraq would have limited the ability for Bin Laden and others to add followers. But on the other hand, the Muslim mindset feeds on perceived weakness so who knows.

Post by **spot** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:26 am

QUINNSCOMMENTARY;1073939 wrote: on the other hand, the Muslim mindset feeds on perceived weakness so who knows.

Anyone who can so simplistically refer to "the Muslim mindset" is a part of the problem, not an avenue toward solving it. Islam is as complex as Christianity or Buddhism. If you want a simplistic religion try the Latter Day Saints and I bet even they have factions, varying interpretations and incompatible practices.