Uncaring people make me MAD!!

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:24 am

On my walk this morning a little ways in front of me was

this large (20-30 birds maybe) covey of quail, several

adults and maybe 10-15 babies. Almost the minute I saw

them, I heard a jogger and a dog come up behind me. The

dog is off-leash and I let out a "OHHH" and sort of held

my arm out, completely ineffective I know but it was

instinct. Dog streaks off towards/thru the quail as the

owner says "She can't catch them" and keeps going. I said

"Yeah, but it stresses them" and she comes back with "They

would of just run when you came by" and I told her I

always walk up slow to give them a chance to get in the

trees. Since she had kept running, she was quite a ways

away by the time she yelled back something that sounded

like "Don't make a big deal out of it" and I swear, if

I wasn't a law-abiding person, I would have caught up

and knocked her skinny you-know-what into next week!

I got no real problem with off-leash out there, the law is

never enforced anyway... I don't even have a problem with

hunting quail under the right circumstances, but I have

a real problem with being so uncaring of what little

wildlife we still have around here. I enjoy seeing those

quail, and happy that after all the creek dredging and

tree cutting we've had we still have birds around.

What I guess really makes me mad is there's not zip I can

do about it if I see her again!

minks · Post by **minks** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:29 am

valerie wrote: On my walk this morning a little ways in front of me was

this large (20-30 birds maybe) covey of quail, several

adults and maybe 10-15 babies. Almost the minute I saw

them, I heard a jogger and a dog come up behind me. The

dog is off-leash and I let out a "OHHH" and sort of held

my arm out, completely ineffective I know but it was

instinct. Dog streaks off towards/thru the quail as the

owner says "She can't catch them" and keeps going. I said

"Yeah, but it stresses them" and she comes back with "They

would of just run when you came by" and I told her I

always walk up slow to give them a chance to get in the

trees. Since she had kept running, she was quite a ways

away by the time she yelled back something that sounded

like "Don't make a big deal out of it" and I swear, if

I wasn't a law-abiding person, I would have caught up

and knocked her skinny you-know-what into next week!

I got no real problem with off-leash out there, the law is

never enforced anyway... I don't even have a problem with

hunting quail under the right circumstances, but I have

a real problem with being so uncaring of what little

wildlife we still have around here. I enjoy seeing those

quail, and happy that after all the creek dredging and

tree cutting we've had we still have birds around.

What I guess really makes me mad is there's not zip I can

do about it if I see her again!

pity you don't have coyotes in the park, heheheh that would fix morons like that. We have very strict leash/off leash bi-laws here, 1) to not stress the wildlife, (we see deer, coyotes, birds galore, beaver, cougar, the odd bear etc) and 2) to protect the dogs from being lured away by the ever present coyote population sooooo again stupid people should not be pet owners because bilaws have to protect their pets cause they won't.

robinseggs · Post by **robinseggs** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:17 am

Ha! LOL...here's an idea...make a sign that reads...."Due to number of dogs off leash in park, quail population has perished. Guess you really can't fix stupid"!!!! Make sure to post it right where she ran by!! Ok....so it's a little ridiculous, but just a thought......

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:01 am

VAL,

Maybe next time she runs with her dog, one of the birds will remember the Bi**h and POOP on her head..

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:11 am

there's an Adam Sandler movie, I believe it's "Big Daddy" or something like that. Rent it and take notes. Lots of good suggestions on how to handle park villians. :sneaky:

cars · Post by **cars** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:40 pm

valerie wrote: On my walk this morning a little ways in front of me was

this large (20-30 birds maybe) covey of quail, several

adults and maybe 10-15 babies. Almost the minute I saw

them, I heard a jogger and a dog come up behind me. The

dog is off-leash and I let out a "OHHH" and sort of held

my arm out, completely ineffective I know but it was

instinct. Dog streaks off towards/thru the quail as the

owner says "She can't catch them" and keeps going. I said

"Yeah, but it stresses them" and she comes back with "They

would of just run when you came by" and I told her I

always walk up slow to give them a chance to get in the

trees. Since she had kept running, she was quite a ways

away by the time she yelled back something that sounded

like "Don't make a big deal out of it" and I swear, if

I wasn't a law-abiding person, I would have caught up

and knocked her skinny you-know-what into next week!

I got no real problem with off-leash out there, the law is

never enforced anyway... I don't even have a problem with

hunting quail under the right circumstances, but I have

a real problem with being so uncaring of what little

wildlife we still have around here. I enjoy seeing those

quail, and happy that after all the creek dredging and

tree cutting we've had we still have birds around.

What I guess really makes me mad is there's not zip I can

do about it if I see her again!

Accidentially stick you leg out just as she's passing you, & when she trips & says someting, just reply, "oh don't make such a big deal out of it"!!

(if only):wah:

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:05 pm

valerie wrote: On my walk this morning a little ways in front of me was

this large (20-30 birds maybe) covey of quail, several

adults and maybe 10-15 babies. Almost the minute I saw

them, I heard a jogger and a dog come up behind me. The

dog is off-leash and I let out a "OHHH" and sort of held

my arm out, completely ineffective I know but it was

instinct. Dog streaks off towards/thru the quail as the

owner says "She can't catch them" and keeps going. I said

"Yeah, but it stresses them" and she comes back with "They

would of just run when you came by" and I told her I

always walk up slow to give them a chance to get in the

trees. Since she had kept running, she was quite a ways

away by the time she yelled back something that sounded

like "Don't make a big deal out of it" and I swear, if

I wasn't a law-abiding person, I would have caught up

and knocked her skinny you-know-what into next week!

I got no real problem with off-leash out there, the law is

never enforced anyway... I don't even have a problem with

hunting quail under the right circumstances, but I have

a real problem with being so uncaring of what little

wildlife we still have around here. I enjoy seeing those

quail, and happy that after all the creek dredging and

tree cutting we've had we still have birds around.

What I guess really makes me mad is there's not zip I can

do about it if I see her again!

Lot's of quail here where I live, as well as doves. I wouldn't have slowed down on my jog either. No big deal. The quail won't die of their temporary stress. Stress???? C'mon

I'll betcha hug trees.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:39 pm

CARLA wrote: VAL,

Maybe next time she runs with her dog, one of the birds will remember the Bi**h and POOP on her head..

Wicked wicked Carla !

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 6:15 pm

NOMAD,

Me wicked.. lock and your evil avitar.. It scares me..

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:17 pm

Lon wrote: Lot's of quail here where I live, as well as doves. I wouldn't have slowed down on my jog either. No big deal. The quail won't die of their temporary stress. Stress???? C'mon

I'll betcha hug trees.

Sorry, Lon, not a tree hugger... YET. And maybe the quail won't die of

temporary stress, it's true, but it DOES make them burn calories and an

awful lot of these were babies!!

Even if I didn't care about them, if there were someone around me that

obviously DID... I would defer... because it wouldn't have been any skin

off her nose to slow up a mite so *I* could enjoy them. And her dog

wasn't even under voice control... a sin in a lot of people's books...

including mine.

:yh_shame

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:21 pm

valerie wrote: her dog wasn't even under voice control... a sin in a lot of people's books...including mine.

:yh_shame
Mine too.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:47 pm

Im just defending myself

foopy is the evil one

just look at what shes done to me

*poor Norman*

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:16 pm

Far Rider wrote: Rider family story time!

I was in this town we live in now about 15-16 years ago, I walked this creek trail everyday for about 6-7 months, we now live just a stones throw from the same trail and its is again my walking/running route. 15 years ago it was flourishing with frogs, squirrel, racoon, oposssum, quail predator birds such owls and osprey. When we moved to this neighborhood I told my kids all about the creekwalk and the wildlife... well so far weve only seen squirrels. My son wanted to raise chickens for a while, just to see if he could do it, I gave him the option of buying quail eggs and raising them and reintroducing them to the creek walk... and so we researched the quail that were here before and raised 70 of them...

All we did was feed the local ferrel cat population. Our little covey of quail were lunch meat!

Pretty sad.

Well, you tried, Far!! At least there's that!!

Cats!! Outside cats, especially!! Don't get me started!! Done enough

ranting in the garden for one day!!

CATS!! UGH!!

:yh_tongue :yh_tongue

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:11 am

I cannot believe what I have just read.You dont mind that people hunt Quail,but to see a dog run through the park and scare the devil out of them and you are affended??Because a jogger enjoys a run in the park with "mans best friend"??????Got Milk........should be Got Estrogen...

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:54 pm

K.Snyder wrote: I cannot believe what I have just read.You dont mind that people hunt Quail,but to see a dog run through the park and scare the devil out of them and you are affended??Because a jogger enjoys a run in the park with "mans best friend"??????Got Milk........should be Got Estrogen...

well, one thing's for sure, nobody will ever hang a "Got Class?" sign around your neck...

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:29 pm

K.Snyder wrote: I cannot believe what I have just read.You dont mind that people hunt Quail,but to see a dog run through the park and scare the devil out of them and you are affended??Because a jogger enjoys a run in the park with "mans best friend"??????Got Milk........should be Got Estrogen...

I know how you feel...I can't believe what I've just read in your post.

How do you relate hunting to stressing them out? Hunting them it's take off, one quick BANG and they're dead. They're not getting pushed, chased, pushed some more. There is a difference. Pushing them is stressful, hunting them just kills them. No stress. I take it you're one of those tree-hugging anti-hunter people who is about to call me a gun nut or a killer because I hunt?

While we're at it, you want to expand on the "got estrogen" comment? That's a puzzler....

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:40 pm

How do you know what stresses an animal??Have you ever been a Quail???How do you know they dont enjoy being challenged in a playfull mannor.That much like a woman likes to be teased,IN A PLAYFULL MANNOR.yet people are so hung up on things that have no significants to our lives as human beings.If your a woman you should take the estrogen bit as a compliment.BTW I like guns and I like hunting to feed and support my family.Ive never had Quail,but if I am ever in a survival situation,you can bet I would It it to the bone.And you would too,teasing or no teasing.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:42 pm

K, K, K! Look around you man! That's dirt on all sides. Stop diggin'.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:46 pm

anastrophe wrote: well, one thing's for sure, nobody will ever hang a "Got Class?" sign around your neck...
Ive GOT more class in my finger than you have in that 70's haircut

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:46 pm

K.Snyder wrote: I cannot believe what I have just read.You dont mind that people hunt Quail,but to see a dog run through the park and scare the devil out of them and you are affended??Because a jogger enjoys a run in the park with "mans best friend"??????Got Milk........should be Got Estrogen...

I don't mind because quail are pretty darn tasty!

People who hunt contribute to wildlife in many ways through the buying

of licenses and permits and fees, etc. AND hunters don't take wildlife

during the nesting season or in the spring when most have their young.

They are limited to adult animals. A lot of the birds I saw were very young

and weighed a few ounces at most. The precious calories they burn in

a frantic run from a marauding dog are very hard for them to replace.

Multiply that by several incidents per day and you have quail in trouble.

I was not "affended" as you so quaintly put it. I simply like to see people

do the right thing.

Got plenty of estrogen, thank you very much... and if I didn't, I could

easily replace it.

Got Brains?

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:47 pm

K.Snyder wrote: How do you know what stresses an animal??Have you ever been a Quail???How do you know they dont enjoy being challenged in a playfull mannor.That much like a woman likes to be teased,IN A PLAYFULL MANNOR.yet people are so hung up on things that have no significants to our lives as human beings.If your a woman you should take the estrogen bit as a compliment.
WOW!!! I don't know where to start with this one...

I was a vet tech for several years and have been studying animals since I was old enough to read, so we're talking somewhere in the vicinity of 30 years. I have years of experience working with and studying animals of all kinds. That's how I know what stresses an animal. Believe it or not, modern science can gauge such things. Shocking, huh?

If you are trying to make a correllation between a quail and a woman, it's not surprising to me that you're confused. Here's a clue for ya: Birds aren't like people in any way. They have an extremely high heart rate, and when pushed unneccesarily, that heart rate increases, and has been known to stress many different varities of birds into cardiac arrest.

How does the wildlife that we share the world with have no significance on our lives? Don't you care about conservation and the environment???

I am a woman and I don't know how to take the estrogen comment. Putting it alongside the rest of what you've said so far, why would you think I'd take it as complimentary?

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:50 pm

K.Snyder wrote: Ive GOT more class in my finger than you have in that 70's haircut
Not judging from what you've shown us so far... :yh_eyebro

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:50 pm

Accountable wrote: K, K, K! Look around you man! That's dirt on all sides. Stop diggin'.

:yh_rotfl :yh_worshp :yh_rotfl

----------------------

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:50 pm

K.Snyder wrote: Ive GOT more class in my finger than you have in that 70's haircut

QED.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:55 pm

Because I am glad I am a man.If you would nt take that as a compliment then you wouldnt be glad that your a woman.I take it your a vegitarian.And If the Birds were disturbed they can take there whatever it is they were doing there and go somewhere else.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:56 pm

BabyRider wrote: Not judging from what you've shown us so far... :yh_eyebro
I dont care Lady .....go hug another tree :-1 :-1 :-1

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:57 pm

K.Snyder wrote: Because I am glad I am a man.If you would nt take that as a compliment then you wouldnt be glad that your a woman.I take it your a vegitarian.And If the Birds were disturbed they can take there whatever it is they were doing there and go somewhere else.
Valerie wrote:

I don't mind because quail are pretty darn tasty!

Now I understand why the warning didn't work.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:00 pm

K.Snyder wrote: Because I am glad I am a man.If you would nt take that as a compliment then you wouldnt be glad that your a woman.I take it your a vegitarian.And If the Birds were disturbed they can take there whatever it is they were doing there and go somewhere else.
I'm glad you're a man too. It explains a lot.

It didn't even make SENSE, so how would I automatically take it as a compliment??!!!

Vegetarian?? HA!! Shows what you know..(shocking) I'm a hunter you dufus. And I eat what I kill.

Your last statement LOUDLY proclaims the utter lack of understanding you have about wildlife. Thanks for making my point for me....

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:01 pm

K.Snyder wrote: I dont care Lady .....go hug another tree :-1 :-1 :-1
Constitutionalist

Gun owner

Hunter

Nope, no tree hugging going on here. Me thinks you have your stereotypes confused.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:04 pm

now now....K is very young according to his bio. he somehow got through school unable to spell. he has the sensitivity of a beetle on a dung-heap in bangkok. so let us show kindness, compassion, understanding and tolerance.

...perhaps he needs some testosterone.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:09 pm

lady cop wrote: now now....K is very young according to his bio. he somehow got through school unable to spell. he has the sensitivity of a beetle on a dung-heap in bangkok. so let us show kindness, compassion, understanding and tolerance.

...perhaps he needs some testosterone.
First he needs a ladder to get out of that hole!

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:11 pm

You get angry at another human being for something there pet does,that in which they have no control over,while showing no forgiveness toward them in any way?You go study animals,I'll stick to forgiving other people.If you werent affended then why did you say anything???????????????????????????????

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:26 pm

K.Snyder wrote: You get angry at another human being for something there pet does,that in which they have no control over,while showing no forgiveness toward them in any way?You go study animals,I'll stick to forgiving other people.If you werent affended then why did you say anything???????????????????????????????K, if you read Valerie's post through again, you'll realise that she was angry at the jogger because she did'nt have the dog on a leash.

So the jogger DID have the ability to have control over the dog, she just did'nt have the sense to do so.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:36 pm

The leash isnt the point.Its the contradictions of the story.The intire story says this"Fatten up the christmas turkey,while it thinks its being rewarded,all your really doing is fattening it up so (you) have more to eat.She just said she didnt mind them being hunted.I suppose a 10 gauge shotgun blast isnt stressfull when one looks over to see his chirping buddy slain to bits.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:44 pm

K.Snyder wrote: The leash isnt the point.Its the contradictions of the story.The intire story says this"Fatten up the christmas turkey,while it thinks its being rewarded,all your really doing is fattening it up so (you) have more to eat.She just said she didnt mind them being hunted.I suppose a 10 gauge shotgun blast isnt stressfull when one looks over to see his chirping buddy slain to bits.I understand the point you are trying to put across (sort of!) but, although i dont hold with hunting animals, i do have to agree that it is preferable to take the bird/animal out with one clean shot (as BR said) than scare them out of their wits unnesassarily.

Are you a vegatarian?

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:55 pm

K.Snyder wrote: The leash isnt the point.Its the contradictions of the story.The intire story says this"Fatten up the christmas turkey,while it thinks its being rewarded,all your really doing is fattening it up so (you) have more to eat.She just said she didnt mind them being hunted.I suppose a 10 gauge shotgun blast isnt stressfull when one looks over to see his chirping buddy slain to bits.
Actually, the leash is the WHOLE point. Had the dog been on a leash, or under voice control, it wouldn't have stressed the birds. Get it now??

And you're anthropomorphising these animals, yet again. A quail seeing another quail being shot does not, in fact, cause it any sorrow. They think of their own survival only. Maybe you should open up a bird therapy clinic, if you're so concerned.

And a pet owner DOES have control over what their pet does, it's called TRAINING. Something else I have ample knowledge about.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:56 pm

OK I'm taking KK side. You all are jumping bad because he has a different opinion.

I will say the hormone thing wasn't necessary, but aside from that I understand what he is saying.

I understand both sides of this issue.

Accountable,

Your making me laugh out loud with the hole, and ladder anology..

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:59 pm

Absolutley not.BTW I meant that a more % of women have those kinds of opinions than that of men.She has a pic. of a DOG on her Bio for heveans sake.Common

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:02 pm

K.Snyder wrote: Absolutley not.
Absolutely not WHAT?

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:10 pm

Usually the next answer is from the last question.If everyone cared as much about people as they do wildlife,we would have a cure for cancer.why put all that money in the wildlife organizations,when you can put it into the health and well being of human beings???

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:20 pm

[quote=K.Snyder]Absolutley not.BTW I meant that a more % of women have those kinds of opinions than that of men.She has a pic. of a DOG on her Bio for heveans sake.Common[/quote}common??? now you're going to deal with me jerkwad.i respect people's opinions here, but personal attacks cross a line.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:22 pm

lady cop wrote: [quote=K.Snyder]Absolutley not.BTW I meant that a more % of women have those kinds of opinions than that of men.She has a pic. of a DOG on her Bio for heveans sake.Common[/quote}common??? now you're going to deal with me jerkwad.i respect people's opinions here, but personal attacks cross a line.

what was a personal attack??????I completly understand the other side of the argument,in that all things living have the right to be respected.Im just trying to make a point.Jerkwad isnt a personel attack.Contradiction yet again.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:23 pm

KK,

Ok i thought I uderstood where your were coming from, but I thought wrong..

Absolutley not.BTW I meant that a more % of women have those kinds of opinions than that of men.She has a pic. of a DOG on her Bio for heveans sake.Common

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:25 pm

K.Snyder wrote: [quote=lady cop]

what was a personal attack??????the estrogen comment was crude and stupid and personal and offensive. then you called her common? we can debate all day long, fine, but ad hominem attacks are a whole different thing. i know you are young, but you need some forum etiquette and manners. we really are nice people here, debate in a nice polite manner and you'll make some decent friends.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:26 pm

K.Snyder wrote: Usually the next answer is from the last question.If everyone cared as much about people as they do wildlife,we would have a cure for cancer.why put all that money in the wildlife organizations,when you can put it into the health and well being of human beings???
A) There was no question in the post previous to yours, dimbulb.

B) Without wildlife this world would not be able to function. There is an actual purpose for all life, a balance. No wildlife = no PLANET.

Not to mention the fact that I like most animals more than I like people, so in MY opinion, wildlife conservation efforts are worth it. You should be able to understand that, it's people like you that are the reason for my view.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:29 pm

BabyRider wrote: A) There was no question in the post previous to yours, dimbulb.

B) Without wildlife this world would not be able to function. There is an actual purpose for all life, a balance. No wildlife = no PLANET.

Not to mention the fact that I like most animals more than I like people, so in MY opinion, wildlife conservation efforts are worth it. You should be able to understand that, it's people like you that are the reason for my view.

You just proved my intire point.And im sorry you did so.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:31 pm

lady cop wrote: [quote=K.Snyder]the estrogen comment was crude and stupid and personal and offensive. then you called her common? we can debate all day long, fine, but ad hominem attacks are a whole different thing. i know you are young, but you need some forum etiquette and manners. we really are nice people here, debate in a nice polite manner and you'll make some decent friends.

I didnt call anyone anything,that like you did."jerkwad"your all contradictive

"dimbulb"

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:31 pm

K.Snyder wrote: You just proved my intire point
You mean to say you actually had one? I mean other than the one on top of your head?