Reboot America?
Reboot America?
We need to do the same thing over on this side of the atlantic as well, stop deluding ourselves that the world owes us a living, or that we can afford to ignore the reality that we are not as clever as we like to think. Hubris always leads to nemesis, and this is just another example of overweening pride coming before a huge fall. Lets face it, we have had it coming, what we do next is going to determine the course of the next 50 years, lets get it right.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Reboot America?
Very good article, but I don't know who Thomas L. Friedman is. Is he a columist?
"Out, damned spot! out, I say!"
- William Shakespeare, Macbeth, 5.1
Reboot America?
Jester, the right to collective bargaining and join a trade union is a fundamental right in a democracy. One of the first things that Herr Hitler did upon assuming power was to end the right to collective bargaining and trade union membership (other than the state's own "trade union").
The EPA protects the shared resource that is your land, rivers, forests, and coasts for the collective benefits of all Americans, not just those who can afford to exploit them for commercial ends. It was a Republican President who founded the EPA, and it was created because it was realized that such a body was necessary to protect the natural heritage of the continent.
As for the Civil Liberties Union, I will make no comment other than to say again, in a democracy, freedom of assocciation and protest are fundamental to freedom.
You have just come through an era where high finance and private business interests have basically set the agenda for everyone else, and the results have not been happy;
I would suggest that something of a rethink on what is for the common good and in the common interest of the prosperity, freedom, and opportunity of all Americans should be considered in the future.
The EPA protects the shared resource that is your land, rivers, forests, and coasts for the collective benefits of all Americans, not just those who can afford to exploit them for commercial ends. It was a Republican President who founded the EPA, and it was created because it was realized that such a body was necessary to protect the natural heritage of the continent.
As for the Civil Liberties Union, I will make no comment other than to say again, in a democracy, freedom of assocciation and protest are fundamental to freedom.
You have just come through an era where high finance and private business interests have basically set the agenda for everyone else, and the results have not been happy;
I would suggest that something of a rethink on what is for the common good and in the common interest of the prosperity, freedom, and opportunity of all Americans should be considered in the future.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Reboot America?
Jester;1093957 wrote: I agree, but lets not forget the government mandates that forced required components to vehicles, such as airbags, and side impact bags- most of that was special interest driven.
They don't, but, they were private industry and are intitles to run their business anyway they want to. They are partly to blame, had they been more benevolent to their workers, accepted modest income, thier industires woudlnt be threatened by the government or the need for the unions.
Then the public, having been damaged should be able to sue the private parties involved to get thier money back.
There is always going to be individual crooks, lets just make sure when they are married to politicians we take them down too.
I agree, but I dont think the american model is a failure, I think the people allowed the big guys to take advantage of us, but we're gonna do it again under Obama, we're gonna sit back and say go ahead and take care of me now. Which is a huge mistake.
We need to get back to an honest days wages for an honest days work0 no handouts- no giveaways. We need to start rebuilding our infrastructure without big government in the way. Not this green crap either, good old fashianoned american knowhow, like the kind that built the space program, nuclear facilities and hoover dam.
Jester I think everyone agrees that somewhere along the line we all seem to have lost our way a little. I don't think people's ideas here are that different, but I would say to you that your not going to get a decent day's pay for a decent day's work by banning unions and dismantling the government.
Also, you want them to build up the infrastructure, which is fine, but how on earth do you build and maintain national infrastructure without the government being involved somehow? Even at least to plan what needs to be done for the nation as a whole. Government in as of itself is not an evil, no more than free markets or business are. Its badly run government that you want to avoid, as well as badly run businesses, and badly run markets. Lately you seem to have had all three at the same time, unfortunately.
My own take on Government is that unlike buisness, government is directly accountable to the people in a democracy and therefore is better at the strategic planning in any country, as they are the only people that have the accountability and responsibility should things go wrong. Its when governments start trying to duck responsibility or pass off their errors as "the free market in action" that I get worried and annoyed.
Its the duty of the government of a Republic to protect its citizens from the natural rapaciousness of commerce, not facilitate it; and certainly not to do so to an absurd level to the detriment of the people, who fund the government (and in whose name the whole system is run in the first place). That's what has happened here: governments have been irresponsible.
It can now be seen quite clearly that it was folly to give bankers and financiers so much lattitude of action (and also pin the entire economy on their dealings at the same time), unsurprisingly they have wrecked everything chasing their quick buck; whoever thought they wouldn't do just that needs their collective heads examined. Then they need to be fired, and serious people need to be put back in charge.
We need more collective responsibility, not less. Free markets are not like gravity, you cannot pin your entire future on the idea that the market always acts in a measured and rational way, or that private companies will somehow work in the national interest and not their own petty concerns, they obviously don't and aren't meant to, thats why you have private and public spheres of life in the first place.
As for the masters of Wall Street and their supposedly fancy theories, wealth creation through "speculation" is just what it says it is, its elaborate gambling and involves the same psychology as horse betting. Why these people have been allowed to be the guiding masters of our nation's collective futures is beyond me. It's a question we all have to think very hard about, but hopefully the lesson will have been learned by someone, somewhere.
I am not saying we don't need stock markets, or investment houses, or banks, of course we do, but we need ones that work for our interests, not against them.
Its obvious from the attitudes of financial and business leaders across the globe, that having presided over the biggest financial disaster in a century, they intend on taking as little responsibility for it as possible, and instead are trying to pass the buck on to others for what they have done. How noble.
They wanted (and demanded) unregulated and unaccountable global capitalism, they got it: its turned into an unmitigated catastrophe; now they are blaming the governments of the world for facilitating them, consumers for being "too greedy", borrowers for being "too stupid", and regulators for not enforcing the (obviously) inadequate existing rules on them; and they are collectively trying to walk away from it.
Its like the murderer blaming the gun store, the manufacturer, the victim, and the police. Its absurd, and a prime example of what Gobbels always called "The Big Lie".
They don't, but, they were private industry and are intitles to run their business anyway they want to. They are partly to blame, had they been more benevolent to their workers, accepted modest income, thier industires woudlnt be threatened by the government or the need for the unions.
Then the public, having been damaged should be able to sue the private parties involved to get thier money back.
There is always going to be individual crooks, lets just make sure when they are married to politicians we take them down too.
I agree, but I dont think the american model is a failure, I think the people allowed the big guys to take advantage of us, but we're gonna do it again under Obama, we're gonna sit back and say go ahead and take care of me now. Which is a huge mistake.
We need to get back to an honest days wages for an honest days work0 no handouts- no giveaways. We need to start rebuilding our infrastructure without big government in the way. Not this green crap either, good old fashianoned american knowhow, like the kind that built the space program, nuclear facilities and hoover dam.
Jester I think everyone agrees that somewhere along the line we all seem to have lost our way a little. I don't think people's ideas here are that different, but I would say to you that your not going to get a decent day's pay for a decent day's work by banning unions and dismantling the government.
Also, you want them to build up the infrastructure, which is fine, but how on earth do you build and maintain national infrastructure without the government being involved somehow? Even at least to plan what needs to be done for the nation as a whole. Government in as of itself is not an evil, no more than free markets or business are. Its badly run government that you want to avoid, as well as badly run businesses, and badly run markets. Lately you seem to have had all three at the same time, unfortunately.
My own take on Government is that unlike buisness, government is directly accountable to the people in a democracy and therefore is better at the strategic planning in any country, as they are the only people that have the accountability and responsibility should things go wrong. Its when governments start trying to duck responsibility or pass off their errors as "the free market in action" that I get worried and annoyed.
Its the duty of the government of a Republic to protect its citizens from the natural rapaciousness of commerce, not facilitate it; and certainly not to do so to an absurd level to the detriment of the people, who fund the government (and in whose name the whole system is run in the first place). That's what has happened here: governments have been irresponsible.
It can now be seen quite clearly that it was folly to give bankers and financiers so much lattitude of action (and also pin the entire economy on their dealings at the same time), unsurprisingly they have wrecked everything chasing their quick buck; whoever thought they wouldn't do just that needs their collective heads examined. Then they need to be fired, and serious people need to be put back in charge.
We need more collective responsibility, not less. Free markets are not like gravity, you cannot pin your entire future on the idea that the market always acts in a measured and rational way, or that private companies will somehow work in the national interest and not their own petty concerns, they obviously don't and aren't meant to, thats why you have private and public spheres of life in the first place.
As for the masters of Wall Street and their supposedly fancy theories, wealth creation through "speculation" is just what it says it is, its elaborate gambling and involves the same psychology as horse betting. Why these people have been allowed to be the guiding masters of our nation's collective futures is beyond me. It's a question we all have to think very hard about, but hopefully the lesson will have been learned by someone, somewhere.
I am not saying we don't need stock markets, or investment houses, or banks, of course we do, but we need ones that work for our interests, not against them.
Its obvious from the attitudes of financial and business leaders across the globe, that having presided over the biggest financial disaster in a century, they intend on taking as little responsibility for it as possible, and instead are trying to pass the buck on to others for what they have done. How noble.
They wanted (and demanded) unregulated and unaccountable global capitalism, they got it: its turned into an unmitigated catastrophe; now they are blaming the governments of the world for facilitating them, consumers for being "too greedy", borrowers for being "too stupid", and regulators for not enforcing the (obviously) inadequate existing rules on them; and they are collectively trying to walk away from it.
Its like the murderer blaming the gun store, the manufacturer, the victim, and the police. Its absurd, and a prime example of what Gobbels always called "The Big Lie".
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Reboot America?
To reboot America one must reboot the American mindset first. I think that may be a taller order than any thing else that's been talked about here.
Americans tend to be a self-absorbed, greedy type. We, as a whole, do not believe in simplicity or modesty. We are consumers, and the more we consume the more we waste.
We all have our own ideas about what it takes to change this country. But, truly, how many of us are making those changes on a personal level?
How many of us continue to wrack up more and more debt to buy junk we don't need and then bitch about bailouts when we ourselves need bailing out with bankruptcies and mortgages?
How many of us complain that gas prices are so unstable and are concerned about global warming but continue to drive gas-guzzling monsters?
How many of us indulge ourselves with food to the point of becoming overweight and think little of those who are truly starving right in our own neighborhoods?
How many of us continue to smoke, eat poorly or not exercise, then complain of the ever-rising cost of health care, when our bad habits are putting massive strain on that system?
My point is, we need a personal shift more than a political shift.
As a bumper sticker that I saw recently said, "If the people lead, the leaders will follow."
Americans tend to be a self-absorbed, greedy type. We, as a whole, do not believe in simplicity or modesty. We are consumers, and the more we consume the more we waste.
We all have our own ideas about what it takes to change this country. But, truly, how many of us are making those changes on a personal level?
How many of us continue to wrack up more and more debt to buy junk we don't need and then bitch about bailouts when we ourselves need bailing out with bankruptcies and mortgages?
How many of us complain that gas prices are so unstable and are concerned about global warming but continue to drive gas-guzzling monsters?
How many of us indulge ourselves with food to the point of becoming overweight and think little of those who are truly starving right in our own neighborhoods?
How many of us continue to smoke, eat poorly or not exercise, then complain of the ever-rising cost of health care, when our bad habits are putting massive strain on that system?
My point is, we need a personal shift more than a political shift.
As a bumper sticker that I saw recently said, "If the people lead, the leaders will follow."
It is better to have your mind opened by wonder
than closed by belief.
than closed by belief.
Reboot America?
Jester;1094082 wrote: I am debt free and owe no man anything, I'm under my recommended BMI, get regular exercise, I eat right and very good infact. I'm probably one of the most frugal people you would ever meet...
Global warming is a lie, and even driving my big trucks and SUV's I don't polute like CHINA or JAPAN or BRAZIL or MEXICO- and nobody seems to be after them, just US evil Americans.
I have made my personal shift, really I have- I am total isolationist now, I will be anti-government starting 20JAN09.
My goal is to be off all of the governments accesses to me as soon as possible and my carbon foot print is going to be to pay as little taxes or fees to the government as possble.
I'm not disagreeing with you I do think americans need a mindset change and thats to get off the government teet asap! Dont let them dirty buggers get any control over you or they will suck every drop of energy you have.
If people made the changes that you have, I think we would all be much better off. Yes, getting off the government teet would be the best thing possible, as well.
Honestly, though, I don't believe global warming is a lie. It's a documented fact. It's true that mankind is not the sole cause. The climate naturally shifts from cooler to warmer and back again. It has for all of the earth's existence. Either way, global warming is in process, and mankind is not helping the matter.
If the ice caps continue to melt as they are, the increase in fresh water and the decrease in salt would have disastrous effects to man and animals.
When I talk about personal change, yes, I speak of Americans. But these are changes that Brazil, China, Mexico, etc. can do as well. Of course, we can't make them do anything. We can only do what we can within our own borders.
Global warming is a lie, and even driving my big trucks and SUV's I don't polute like CHINA or JAPAN or BRAZIL or MEXICO- and nobody seems to be after them, just US evil Americans.
I have made my personal shift, really I have- I am total isolationist now, I will be anti-government starting 20JAN09.
My goal is to be off all of the governments accesses to me as soon as possible and my carbon foot print is going to be to pay as little taxes or fees to the government as possble.
I'm not disagreeing with you I do think americans need a mindset change and thats to get off the government teet asap! Dont let them dirty buggers get any control over you or they will suck every drop of energy you have.
If people made the changes that you have, I think we would all be much better off. Yes, getting off the government teet would be the best thing possible, as well.
Honestly, though, I don't believe global warming is a lie. It's a documented fact. It's true that mankind is not the sole cause. The climate naturally shifts from cooler to warmer and back again. It has for all of the earth's existence. Either way, global warming is in process, and mankind is not helping the matter.
If the ice caps continue to melt as they are, the increase in fresh water and the decrease in salt would have disastrous effects to man and animals.
When I talk about personal change, yes, I speak of Americans. But these are changes that Brazil, China, Mexico, etc. can do as well. Of course, we can't make them do anything. We can only do what we can within our own borders.
It is better to have your mind opened by wonder
than closed by belief.
than closed by belief.
Reboot America?
Jester;1094111 wrote: I argue this one till the cows come home I think mankind barely scratches the surface of the earth, there is a disorderly-order to our world. Its forever going out of balance then back into balance, slightly skewed so to speak. Global warming as the polititcians make it out is merely hype to garner power and control over the people. And I dont think the ice caps are as bad as folks are saying, the scinetist are crying that the sky is falling- same as when I was a kid it was 'the ice age is coming'- its normal variance in our world, nothing to be alarmed about- no global meltdown or catastrophe other than what we normally see from time to time.
I hear this a lot in my house. My husband believes the exact same thing. And we go 'round and 'round.
Like I tell him, I don't give a darn what the politicians say about it. As for the scientists, why would they cry wolf if a wolf wasn't really approaching? It may not arrive this week or next month or even in 10 years. What would they gain from that other than a few articles published in Newsweek?
I believe mankind, with his current trends, is scratching the earth and is scratching to the point of scarring.
But, I only know a couple of things for sure, and this isn't one of them. Time will tell the tale. Hopefully it is a good one.
I hear this a lot in my house. My husband believes the exact same thing. And we go 'round and 'round.
Like I tell him, I don't give a darn what the politicians say about it. As for the scientists, why would they cry wolf if a wolf wasn't really approaching? It may not arrive this week or next month or even in 10 years. What would they gain from that other than a few articles published in Newsweek?
I believe mankind, with his current trends, is scratching the earth and is scratching to the point of scarring.
But, I only know a couple of things for sure, and this isn't one of them. Time will tell the tale. Hopefully it is a good one.
It is better to have your mind opened by wonder
than closed by belief.
than closed by belief.
Reboot America?
Jester;1094133 wrote: hehehehe- the scientists need jobs too- more creatign job security, so long as they have an 'issue' to study they will keep gettign the grant money!
and yer husband sounds like a wise wise man to me!:p
I suppose this is very true. Just as I believe that we will never cure all diseases because we need them for the economy. Diseases bring in a lot of economic revenue, to be morbidly honest. Same with scientists and their causes.
Yes, hubby is a wise man. A little too much for his own good sometimes. :rolleyes:
and yer husband sounds like a wise wise man to me!:p
I suppose this is very true. Just as I believe that we will never cure all diseases because we need them for the economy. Diseases bring in a lot of economic revenue, to be morbidly honest. Same with scientists and their causes.
Yes, hubby is a wise man. A little too much for his own good sometimes. :rolleyes:
It is better to have your mind opened by wonder
than closed by belief.
than closed by belief.
Reboot America?
As you know Jester I am a scientist, I study this stuff, and you're absolutely wrong about global warming, its 100 percent happening right now and the consequences are not going to be of a nature that you will be able to ignore.
Also, it isn't being caused by sun spots, or climate fluctuations or any of that crap, its all the CO2 we have been pumping into the atmosphere for the last 150 years, and its not just America, its every industrialized nation on earth and we are all going down together if we don't at least attempt to do something about it. Urgently.
To be honest with you, its probably too late anyway at this stage.
I give you 5-10 years before you will know that this is the truth and it will be based on what you will witness for yourself, not what I tell you.
I do agree that self-reliance is going to be key now, that, and faith in the future and each other because this is going to be a very difficult era we are entering. People need to lower their expectations and this modern vanity and sense of entitlement to material things that we all seem to have.
Also, it isn't being caused by sun spots, or climate fluctuations or any of that crap, its all the CO2 we have been pumping into the atmosphere for the last 150 years, and its not just America, its every industrialized nation on earth and we are all going down together if we don't at least attempt to do something about it. Urgently.
To be honest with you, its probably too late anyway at this stage.
I give you 5-10 years before you will know that this is the truth and it will be based on what you will witness for yourself, not what I tell you.
I do agree that self-reliance is going to be key now, that, and faith in the future and each other because this is going to be a very difficult era we are entering. People need to lower their expectations and this modern vanity and sense of entitlement to material things that we all seem to have.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Reboot America?
There are many good discussions going on in this thread.
Unions: I am not a big fan of unions, however I am not against them either, they are often the watch dog to keep things faire, where they fall down is when unions and companies do not work together to the common good which is ensuring the success of the business while still providing fair employment conditions for employees.
Where unions fail in my opinion is where they promote low productivity to ensure overtime and where they actually work against the company’s success to the point of implosion.
Then, I am also against those CEO’s earning multi-millions. Neville Isdale, CEO for Coca-Cola received a total compensation package of $21milllion in 2007, there is no excuse for that kind of salary.
If you think back to some of the great political saying such as ‘Ask not what your country can do for you, but what can you do for your country’ are not just applicable to the USA. Global citizens have been trained to take and take and not want to give anything back, or they want it somehow without the requirement of needing to pay for it, so the only options left are privatization. Sometimes that works sometimes it does not. We need to invest in the infrastrucures that we need long term, FDR had that right.
The other issue is lack of accountability; it is always someone else’s fault. If a guy gets drunk and runs someone over: blame the bar tender for serving the drinks. There needs to be accountability and that does not just mean pointing the fingers at others, it means taking blame ourselves. We are all responsible for the financial mess we are in.
Yes, you want to see the state of the nation, look at the state of our health, our kids are fat, they don’t exercise and we continue to feed then nachos with cheese sauce. They we tell them they should be happy with their bodies no matter what they look like, then when they have diabetes at 16 years of age we blame the education system for their canteen food.
They whole debate on global warming, right or wrong, what do we do wait around and do nothing and wait to see who is right or wrong? We know, we are consuming more, using more energy and creating more waist, global warming or not the right thing to do is manage the environment we live in so it is not a complete mess for our grandkids.
I agree with laneybug, we need to look at ourselves. It is true that we will follow our leaders, but it is also true that we choose our leaders, and they only take us in the direction we want to go in.
Unions: I am not a big fan of unions, however I am not against them either, they are often the watch dog to keep things faire, where they fall down is when unions and companies do not work together to the common good which is ensuring the success of the business while still providing fair employment conditions for employees.
Where unions fail in my opinion is where they promote low productivity to ensure overtime and where they actually work against the company’s success to the point of implosion.
Then, I am also against those CEO’s earning multi-millions. Neville Isdale, CEO for Coca-Cola received a total compensation package of $21milllion in 2007, there is no excuse for that kind of salary.
If you think back to some of the great political saying such as ‘Ask not what your country can do for you, but what can you do for your country’ are not just applicable to the USA. Global citizens have been trained to take and take and not want to give anything back, or they want it somehow without the requirement of needing to pay for it, so the only options left are privatization. Sometimes that works sometimes it does not. We need to invest in the infrastrucures that we need long term, FDR had that right.
The other issue is lack of accountability; it is always someone else’s fault. If a guy gets drunk and runs someone over: blame the bar tender for serving the drinks. There needs to be accountability and that does not just mean pointing the fingers at others, it means taking blame ourselves. We are all responsible for the financial mess we are in.
Yes, you want to see the state of the nation, look at the state of our health, our kids are fat, they don’t exercise and we continue to feed then nachos with cheese sauce. They we tell them they should be happy with their bodies no matter what they look like, then when they have diabetes at 16 years of age we blame the education system for their canteen food.
They whole debate on global warming, right or wrong, what do we do wait around and do nothing and wait to see who is right or wrong? We know, we are consuming more, using more energy and creating more waist, global warming or not the right thing to do is manage the environment we live in so it is not a complete mess for our grandkids.
I agree with laneybug, we need to look at ourselves. It is true that we will follow our leaders, but it is also true that we choose our leaders, and they only take us in the direction we want to go in.
-
QUINNSCOMMENTARY
- Posts: 901
- Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 4:56 pm
Reboot America?
He makes many good points, but we are far from learning our lesson. Americans just don't get it. What you will see in reaction to this crisis is not fundamental change but knee jerk reactions with the future be damned. Take a look at all the requests for infrastructure money under a new stimulus plan, they range from libraries, to town pools, to tennis courts and museums (AND YOU THOUGHT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT BRIDGES AND HIGHWAYS). What's wrong with any of that, well nothing except when the federal money is spent on their construction somebody in the town of middle American will be stuck with the tax bill to maintain them and then what, property taxes go up.
We are pigs at the trough of the federal feeding without regard to the consequences, we are gripped by fear and making irrational decisions, 90% of American will continue to have a job even over the next year and yet everyone is afraid to spend money or invest in their future.
We have calls for protectionism and even higher taxes, both sound popular and yet are the wrong long term strategy.
Jobs go where they can be done most efficiently and most effectively, the problem in many cases is that the US ain't the place. We don't adapt or embrace the changes in our educational system. We are in short content to be fat, dumb and happy (in a manner of speaking). What country lost 7 million manufacturing jobs in the last decade?
It's China, and yet they continue to modify their economy, not that China is on a level with the US...yet.
Some unions are part of the problem, but not all. The UAW is a classic example of not only greed, but worse failing to adapt. If it were up to the UAW people who make film for cameras would be paid for a year even though there is no demand for film.
Teachers and other government unions are worse yet. The states spend money with abandon and then cry when tax revenues are down and can't support all the legislative gifts to the masses.
The average total compensation cost per hour worked for state and local government employees is $38.30 and for private employers it is $26.78 as of 2008. And the people who are making 30% less are paying the bill for government workers.
We do indeed need to reboot America, change what we value and reward. As I have said before, it was not the bankers on Wall Street that caused our problems, it was the politicians and the average Joe who thought he too could have it all even with no money to pay for it.
We are pigs at the trough of the federal feeding without regard to the consequences, we are gripped by fear and making irrational decisions, 90% of American will continue to have a job even over the next year and yet everyone is afraid to spend money or invest in their future.
We have calls for protectionism and even higher taxes, both sound popular and yet are the wrong long term strategy.
Jobs go where they can be done most efficiently and most effectively, the problem in many cases is that the US ain't the place. We don't adapt or embrace the changes in our educational system. We are in short content to be fat, dumb and happy (in a manner of speaking). What country lost 7 million manufacturing jobs in the last decade?
It's China, and yet they continue to modify their economy, not that China is on a level with the US...yet.
Some unions are part of the problem, but not all. The UAW is a classic example of not only greed, but worse failing to adapt. If it were up to the UAW people who make film for cameras would be paid for a year even though there is no demand for film.
Teachers and other government unions are worse yet. The states spend money with abandon and then cry when tax revenues are down and can't support all the legislative gifts to the masses.
The average total compensation cost per hour worked for state and local government employees is $38.30 and for private employers it is $26.78 as of 2008. And the people who are making 30% less are paying the bill for government workers.
We do indeed need to reboot America, change what we value and reward. As I have said before, it was not the bankers on Wall Street that caused our problems, it was the politicians and the average Joe who thought he too could have it all even with no money to pay for it.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
"If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody is not thinking" Gen. George Patton
Quinnscommentary
Observations on Life. Give it a try now and tell a friend or two or fifty.
Quinnscommentary Blog
"If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody is not thinking" Gen. George Patton
Quinnscommentary
Observations on Life. Give it a try now and tell a friend or two or fifty.
Quinnscommentary Blog
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QUINNSCOMMENTARY
- Posts: 901
- Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 4:56 pm
Reboot America?
Galbally;1094155 wrote: As you know Jester I am a scientist, I study this stuff, and you're absolutely wrong about global warming, its 100 percent happening right now and the consequences are not going to be of a nature that you will be able to ignore.
Also, it isn't being caused by sun spots, or climate fluctuations or any of that crap, its all the CO2 we have been pumping into the atmosphere for the last 150 years, and its not just America, its every industrialized nation on earth and we are all going down together if we don't at least attempt to do something about it. Urgently.
To be honest with you, its probably too late anyway at this stage.
I give you 5-10 years before you will know that this is the truth and it will be based on what you will witness for yourself, not what I tell you.
I do agree that self-reliance is going to be key now, that, and faith in the future and each other because this is going to be a very difficult era we are entering. People need to lower their expectations and this modern vanity and sense of entitlement to material things that we all seem to have.
But what are the consequences of all this? Do we know for sure? And you are right about the US alone. Over here it sounds like we can solve the problem, but I have seen studies that show if the US did everything right to correct the problems in terms of pollution that it would have a very minimal affect on the whole problem because of what the rest of the world is doing.l
Also, it isn't being caused by sun spots, or climate fluctuations or any of that crap, its all the CO2 we have been pumping into the atmosphere for the last 150 years, and its not just America, its every industrialized nation on earth and we are all going down together if we don't at least attempt to do something about it. Urgently.
To be honest with you, its probably too late anyway at this stage.
I give you 5-10 years before you will know that this is the truth and it will be based on what you will witness for yourself, not what I tell you.
I do agree that self-reliance is going to be key now, that, and faith in the future and each other because this is going to be a very difficult era we are entering. People need to lower their expectations and this modern vanity and sense of entitlement to material things that we all seem to have.
But what are the consequences of all this? Do we know for sure? And you are right about the US alone. Over here it sounds like we can solve the problem, but I have seen studies that show if the US did everything right to correct the problems in terms of pollution that it would have a very minimal affect on the whole problem because of what the rest of the world is doing.l
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Observations on Life. Give it a try now and tell a friend or two or fifty.
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"If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody is not thinking" Gen. George Patton
Quinnscommentary
Observations on Life. Give it a try now and tell a friend or two or fifty.
Quinnscommentary Blog
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Oscar Namechange
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Reboot America?
mikeinie;1094188 wrote: There are many good discussions going on in this thread.
Unions: I am not a big fan of unions, however I am not against them either, they are often the watch dog to keep things faire, where they fall down is when unions and companies do not work together to the common good which is ensuring the success of the business while still providing fair employment conditions for employees.
Where unions fail in my opinion is where they promote low productivity to ensure overtime and where they actually work against the company’s success to the point of implosion.
Then, I am also against those CEO’s earning multi-millions. Neville Isdale, CEO for Coca-Cola received a total compensation package of $21milllion in 2007, there is no excuse for that kind of salary.
If you think back to some of the great political saying such as ‘Ask not what your country can do for you, but what can you do for your country’ are not just applicable to the USA. Global citizens have been trained to take and take and not want to give anything back, or they want it somehow without the requirement of needing to pay for it, so the only options left are privatization. Sometimes that works sometimes it does not. We need to invest in the infrastrucures that we need long term, FDR had that right.
The other issue is lack of accountability; it is always someone else’s fault. If a guy gets drunk and runs someone over: blame the bar tender for serving the drinks. There needs to be accountability and that does not just mean pointing the fingers at others, it means taking blame ourselves. We are all responsible for the financial mess we are in.
Yes, you want to see the state of the nation, look at the state of our health, our kids are fat, they don’t exercise and we continue to feed then nachos with cheese sauce. They we tell them they should be happy with their bodies no matter what they look like, then when they have diabetes at 16 years of age we blame the education system for their canteen food.
They whole debate on global warming, right or wrong, what do we do wait around and do nothing and wait to see who is right or wrong? We know, we are consuming more, using more energy and creating more waist, global warming or not the right thing to do is manage the environment we live in so it is not a complete mess for our grandkids.
I agree with laneybug, we need to look at ourselves. It is true that we will follow our leaders, but it is also true that we choose our leaders, and they only take us in the direction we want to go in.
As usual, a excellent post by mikie and the voice of reason.
I have said it many times on other threads but i am sick of the blame culture.
If some-one loses their job.. it's the governments fault, if some-one loses their house,... it's the governments fault. Well, no it's not. Like Jester said, if you live debt free as i am lucky enough to do so, you don't suffer as many are today. We have a simple policy in the Oscar household...'If we aint got it, we don't spend it'.
Business's are going under here such as Woolworth because they have diversified and borrowed to the tune of £90 million. When it goes tits up, they all look to the government.
You have to spend on infrastructure to get a country back on it's feet. Health, education, transport etc need constant fiscal investment to create more jobs. If you cut back on the infrastructure, the economy dry's up and even more jobs are lost.
One of the biggest problems ever created in this country was when Thatcher announced that everyone should own their home and sold off council houses at hugely discounte prices. this may have injected money at the time but councils are still counting the cost now and why we are seeing more and more greenbelt dissapear to accomodate immigration and homeless.
Incidently, I do not believe in global warming.
Unions: I am not a big fan of unions, however I am not against them either, they are often the watch dog to keep things faire, where they fall down is when unions and companies do not work together to the common good which is ensuring the success of the business while still providing fair employment conditions for employees.
Where unions fail in my opinion is where they promote low productivity to ensure overtime and where they actually work against the company’s success to the point of implosion.
Then, I am also against those CEO’s earning multi-millions. Neville Isdale, CEO for Coca-Cola received a total compensation package of $21milllion in 2007, there is no excuse for that kind of salary.
If you think back to some of the great political saying such as ‘Ask not what your country can do for you, but what can you do for your country’ are not just applicable to the USA. Global citizens have been trained to take and take and not want to give anything back, or they want it somehow without the requirement of needing to pay for it, so the only options left are privatization. Sometimes that works sometimes it does not. We need to invest in the infrastrucures that we need long term, FDR had that right.
The other issue is lack of accountability; it is always someone else’s fault. If a guy gets drunk and runs someone over: blame the bar tender for serving the drinks. There needs to be accountability and that does not just mean pointing the fingers at others, it means taking blame ourselves. We are all responsible for the financial mess we are in.
Yes, you want to see the state of the nation, look at the state of our health, our kids are fat, they don’t exercise and we continue to feed then nachos with cheese sauce. They we tell them they should be happy with their bodies no matter what they look like, then when they have diabetes at 16 years of age we blame the education system for their canteen food.
They whole debate on global warming, right or wrong, what do we do wait around and do nothing and wait to see who is right or wrong? We know, we are consuming more, using more energy and creating more waist, global warming or not the right thing to do is manage the environment we live in so it is not a complete mess for our grandkids.
I agree with laneybug, we need to look at ourselves. It is true that we will follow our leaders, but it is also true that we choose our leaders, and they only take us in the direction we want to go in.
As usual, a excellent post by mikie and the voice of reason.
I have said it many times on other threads but i am sick of the blame culture.
If some-one loses their job.. it's the governments fault, if some-one loses their house,... it's the governments fault. Well, no it's not. Like Jester said, if you live debt free as i am lucky enough to do so, you don't suffer as many are today. We have a simple policy in the Oscar household...'If we aint got it, we don't spend it'.
Business's are going under here such as Woolworth because they have diversified and borrowed to the tune of £90 million. When it goes tits up, they all look to the government.
You have to spend on infrastructure to get a country back on it's feet. Health, education, transport etc need constant fiscal investment to create more jobs. If you cut back on the infrastructure, the economy dry's up and even more jobs are lost.
One of the biggest problems ever created in this country was when Thatcher announced that everyone should own their home and sold off council houses at hugely discounte prices. this may have injected money at the time but councils are still counting the cost now and why we are seeing more and more greenbelt dissapear to accomodate immigration and homeless.
Incidently, I do not believe in global warming.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Reboot America?
QUINNSCOMMENTARY;1095126 wrote: But what are the consequences of all this? Do we know for sure? And you are right about the US alone. Over here it sounds like we can solve the problem, but I have seen studies that show if the US did everything right to correct the problems in terms of pollution that it would have a very minimal affect on the whole problem because of what the rest of the world is doing.l
The consequences are that the climate is destabilizing, rapidly. The climate as you know is a massively complex system, but it tends to operate on the basis of what is known as dynamic equilibrium. When the system is destabilized past a certain point then the basic equilibrium of the global climate could change in a relatively short space of time.
As it stands at the moment, its certain that global mean temperatures are going to increase by between 2 and 6 degrees celcius, thats an extreme change in only 100-150 years. We have but no one is quite sure how much yet, and we also don't know how close we are to setting off any potential feedback mechanisms.
If any of them kick in, the the climate will simply start to feed into its own destabilization and we are then past the point of no return. Thats the apocalyptic scenario. Whether that will happen will depend on how severe the change in temperature will actually be, and how fragile the feedback mechamisms are, the lessons of global climatic history are that such changes tend to be massive, happen quickly, and result in very large scale mass extinctions during the period of destabilization and the reaching of a new equilibrium, all very alarming.
The consequences are that the climate is destabilizing, rapidly. The climate as you know is a massively complex system, but it tends to operate on the basis of what is known as dynamic equilibrium. When the system is destabilized past a certain point then the basic equilibrium of the global climate could change in a relatively short space of time.
As it stands at the moment, its certain that global mean temperatures are going to increase by between 2 and 6 degrees celcius, thats an extreme change in only 100-150 years. We have but no one is quite sure how much yet, and we also don't know how close we are to setting off any potential feedback mechanisms.
If any of them kick in, the the climate will simply start to feed into its own destabilization and we are then past the point of no return. Thats the apocalyptic scenario. Whether that will happen will depend on how severe the change in temperature will actually be, and how fragile the feedback mechamisms are, the lessons of global climatic history are that such changes tend to be massive, happen quickly, and result in very large scale mass extinctions during the period of destabilization and the reaching of a new equilibrium, all very alarming.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.