Kathy Ellen;1110924 wrote: I really dislike threads like these...it really hurts my heart and soul. Oh, sorry...guess I'l whining again
It's a shame that the Israeli/Hamas war is dominating the news these days as did the elections some months ago. It really is not anti-American. We are putting forward arguements as to why America backs Israel by funding their military. It's something us British don't understand as our country condemns Israel. I have learnt so much since joining FG and i learnt a lot about American policy from Jester and other Americans. We can't begin to learn or to understand if there is not healthy debate. This thread and others where we ask questions as to why America backs Israel has been polite dispite difference of opinion. It would be a great shame if any of us could no longer educate ourselves by putting forward arguement and giving each side an opportunity to state their feelings.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
BTS;1110928 wrote: What pardons are you saying he has given?
Has he done it yet as you state?
This is interesting eh?
Here’s the mercy ranking of modern presidents — pardons averaged over months in office:
Wasn't Clinton the king of pardons when he left office? I just remember hearing at the time of all the crooks, and of course relatives, he pardoned in his last few days as president.
Jester;1110930 wrote: Oscar, I did ask for credible information RENSE is not credible, at all.
The WH UN building appears to be an accident and we wont know for sure till there is a clear investigation, for now whats been posted is speculation, and the title said RICE TOLD ISRAEL NOT TO ATTACK UN, then the body of the article states Rice said we need to 'AVOID' such targets.
The last article is a joke in itself, it was a yacht- and it was warned to stay clear of Iaraeli waters and the war zone, and it was disabled so it could not continue further. :rolleyes: (if the report is even true)
Now- Im not going to reply to any more of this obviously erroneous and ill fitting propaganda agasint Israel and the US tag lined links of yours- I avoid most of your outlanish statements in the posts that you make with these kinds of links as a general rule.
Ok Jester..... I'm willing to learn so please tell me why America should back a war in the Middle East that is not their soil or their problem?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
oscar;1110931 wrote: It's a shame that the Israeli/Hamas war is dominating the news these days as did the elections some months ago. It really is not anti-American. We are putting forward arguements as to why America backs Israel by funding their military. It's something us British don't understand as our country condemns Israel. I have learnt so much since joining FG and i learnt a lot about American policy from Jester and other Americans. We can't begin to learn or to understand if there is not healthy debate. This thread and others where we ask questions as to why America backs Israel has been polite dispite difference of opinion. It would be a great shame if any of us could no longer educate ourselves by putting forward arguement and giving each side an opportunity to state their feelings.
I don't feel that we're educating ourselves with a "healthy debate" here in FG. I think that many of these "debates" end up insulting the citizens of my country.
I have "healthy" debates with some of my UK friends here in FG in other areas that enrich our understanding of each other, but I certainly don't feel comfortable in this type of debate....It's constant bashing to me..
Kathy Ellen;1110949 wrote: I don't feel that we're educating ourselves with a "healthy debate" here in FG. I think that many of these "debates" end up insulting the citizens of my country.
I have "healthy" debates with some of my UK friends here in FG in other areas that enrich our understanding of each other, but I certainly don't feel comfortable in this type of debate....It's constant bashing to me..
I'm sure many of us Americans feel the same as you KE, it really is a bashing fest.
Kathy Ellen;1110949 wrote: I don't feel that we're educating ourselves with a "healthy debate" here in FG. I think that many of these "debates" end up insulting the citizens of my country.
I have "healthy" debates with some of my UK friends here in FG in other areas that enrich our understanding of each other, but I certainly don't feel comfortable in this type of debate....It's constant bashing to me..
I often put on threads about our idiotic government or country but we rarely get an American comment on them and it's a great shame.
Then, when you log on and see a new thread titled 'now stop the anti-American posts please', it's pretty obvious that it's going to end up this way. I am happy to continue debating world issue's such as the problems in the Middle East but, your right and i'm also finding threads with this kind of title antagonistic. I won't be joining another thread with a title such as this because it's pretty obvious that it's a thread designed to create anti-american posts and not abolish them.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Jester;1110955 wrote: Becasue if Israel falls the Islamic unification folowing will spread militant Islam throughout the western reaches, and there will be one great war over it. Many hundreds of thousands will die.
Fair enough point. OK, why is America alone in support for Israel and the world condemns Israel?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
oscar;1110954 wrote: I often put on threads about our idiotic government or country but we rarely get an American comment on them and it's a great shame.
Then, when you log on and see a new thread titled 'now stop the anti-American posts please', it's pretty obvious that it's going to end up this way. I am happy to continue debating world issue's such as the problems in the Middle East but, your right and i'm also finding threads with this kind of title antagonistic. I won't be joining another thread with a title such as this because it's pretty obvious that it's a thread designed to create anti-american posts and not abolish them.
Thank you Julie, I appreciate your thoughts:-6. You are the 1st person to wonder why many people don't post on the UK threads. I am very interested in discussing all issues with other cultures, but I don't enjoy heated debates. I don't want you to think I'm intimidated by these threads because I'm not...I just don't like arguing, blaming others and anger.
I would love to post in some of your UK threads about your government and economy, and try to understand your culture and government better. But, I wouldn't join these threads because some members would demand that I validate every one of my thoughts. In other words, I'm made to feel that my opinions are not appreciate in these threads. That has been said many times.....It's always prove it show links Links are important but geeze...
When I see a thread that will appreciate my educated or emotional opinions, then I will post there. I discuss politics, religion and world affairs with lots of members here. But, I think the difference is that they respect what I have to offer even though they don't agree.
I have learned so much about my UK and Aussie friends here through friendly discussions. I do believe that more members would enjoy becoming a part of political, philosophical and religious threads if they felt that their opinions were appreciated.
I just don't understand why these threads have to be so confrontational. Why can't we just talk without having to argue and prove every thought that we have?
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl Maybe we should have a special forum for "Friendly political, religious and philosophical discussions"...bet that thread would be busy and endear everyone to think about joining in with their thoughts...
Kathy Ellen;1110965 wrote: Thank you Julie, I appreciate your thoughts:-6. You are the 1st person to wonder why many people don't post on the UK threads. I am very interested in discussing all issues with other cultures, but I don't enjoy heated debates. I don't want you to think I'm intimidated by these threads because I'm not...I just don't like arguing, blaming others and anger.
I would love to post in some of your UK threads about your government and economy, and try to understand your culture and government better. But, I wouldn't join these threads because some members would demand that I validate every one of my thoughts. In other words, I'm made to feel that my opinions are not appreciate in these threads. That has been said many times.....It's always prove it show links Links are important but geeze...
When I see a thread that will appreciate my educated or emotional opinions, then I will post there. I discuss politics, religion and world affairs with lots of members here. But, I think the difference is that they respect what I have to offer even though they don't agree.
I have learned so much about my UK and Aussie friends here through friendly discussions. I do believe that more members would enjoy becoming a part of political, philosophical and religious threads if they felt that their opinions were appreciated.
I just don't understand why these threads have to be so confrontational. Why can't we just talk without having to argue and prove every thought that we have?
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl Maybe we should have a special forum for "Friendly political, religious and philosophical discussions"...bet that thread would be busy and endear everyone to think about joinng in with their thoughts...
Brilliant idea!! We could have a thread for political newbie's where we don't shout 'OK, NOW BACK THAT UP WITH A LINK!!!!!!!!
Even Jester has startd doing it :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
Ironically, the threads about British current affairs that only get British posting on them, actually end up far more spiteful than the American one's. You really should tune in and see what gmc, galbally and myself call each other!!!!!
I really have learnt so much on this forum but i agree with you as on the political threads, i often have to google just to verify what i'm saying and opinion doesn't seem to come into it at times.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
I have learned so much about my UK and Aussie friends here through friendly discussions. I do believe that more members would enjoy becoming a part of political, philosophical and religious threads if they felt that their opinions were appreciated.
I just don't understand why these threads have to be so confrontational. Why can't we just talk without having to argue and prove every thought that we have?
I agree totally, Kathy. And it's a great pity. There are four or five mega-posters in FG who obviously have unlimited time and energy to swamp the interesting threads many of us who have outside lives would otherwise enjoy dialogue in. It's just not worth the aggro. I've found a good dinner party with intelligent, well mannered companions with open minds and preferably a good sense of humour is a most satisfying alternative to the endless repetitive bullying and bickering in this forum.
Jester;1110796 wrote: 1. it is not the responsibilty of Israel to feed the inhabitants of Gaza.
2. they have a right to secure any portion of the border they want, its thier country. This is good stuff. And nobody wants "Israel to feed the inhabitants of Gaza", I don't see that being said anywhere, it's just that nobody can take supplies into Gaza at all. And the domestic taps have no water in them. Because of the Israelis.
But which country is Gaza in? Is Gaza a part of Israel? "secure any portion of the border they want, its thier country"? If Gaza's a part of Israel, why have the people living there no vote in Israeli elections? You have this pretence that nobody but Jews lived in Gaza or the West Bank before 1948. These are the inhabitants of the land that are still there. Is Gaza in Israel?
If Gaza's not a part of Israel, what's with the "right to secure any portion of the border they want, its thier country"? The Gaza-Egypt border doesn't touch Israeli territory, the sea border isn't Israeli territory but it's blockaded, Gaza airport isn't on Israeli territory but planes can't fly into it.
Unless, as you say, Gaza's in Israel. I'd be more than happy to accept that it is. Is it?
And if it isn't in Israel, what country is it a part of?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"] Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
shelbell;1110916 wrote: Stop the anti-American posts? What the hell do you call this entire thread? :-5:-5:-5
Maybe we should look at one man's thoughts, just "What Is An American?"
What Is An American?
By Peter Ferrara, an associate professor of law at the George Mason University School of Law.
To Kill an American
ou probably missed it in the rush of news last week, but there was actually a report that someone in Pakistan had published in a newspaper there an offer of a reward to anyone who killed an American, any American. So I just thought I would write to let them know what an American is, so they would know when they found one.
An American is English¦or French, or Italian, Irish, German, Spanish, Polish, Russian or Greek. An American may also be African, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Australian, Iranian, Asian, or Arab, or Pakistani, or Afghan.
An American is Christian, or he could be Jewish, or Buddhist, or Muslim. In fact, there are more Muslims in America than in Afghanistan. The only difference is that in America they are free to worship as each of them choose.
An American is also free to believe in no religion. For that he will answer only to God, not to the government, or to armed thugs claiming to speak for the government and for God.
An American is from the most prosperous land in the history of the world. The root of that prosperity can be found in the Declaration of Independence, which recognizes the God-given right of each man and woman to the pursuit of happiness.
An American is generous. Americans have helped out just about every other nation in the world in their time of need. When Afghanistan was overrun by the Soviet army 20 years ago, Americans came with arms and supplies to enable the people to win back their country. As of the morning of September 11, Americans had given more than any other nation to the poor in Afghanistan.
An American does not have to obey the mad ravings of ignorant, ungodly cruel, old men. American men will not be fooled into giving up their lives to kill innocent people, so that these foolish old men may hold on to power. American women are free to show their beautiful faces to the world, as each of them choose.
An American is free to criticize his government's officials when they are wrong, in his or her own opinion. Then he is free to replace them, by majority vote.
Americans welcome people from all lands, all cultures, all religions, because they are not afraid. They are not afraid that their history, their religion, their beliefs, will be overrun, or forgotten. That is because they know they are free to hold to their religion, their beliefs, their history, as each of them choose.
And just as Americans welcome all, they enjoy the best that everyone has to bring, from all over the world. The best science, the best technology, the best products, the best books, the best music, the best food, the best athletes.
Americans welcome the best, but they also welcome the least. The nation symbol of America welcomes your tired and your poor, the wretched refuse of your teeming shores, the homeless, tempest tossed.
These in fact are the people who built America. Many of them were working in the twin towers on the morning of September 11, earning a better life for their families.
So you can try to kill an American if you must. Hitler did. So did General Tojo and Stalin and Mao Tse-Tung, and every bloodthirsty tyrant in the history of the world.
But in doing so you would just be killing yourself. Because Americans are not a particular people from a particular place. They are the embodiment of the human spirit of freedom. Everyone who holds to that spirit, everywhere, is an American.
So look around you. You may find more Americans in your land than you thought were there. One day they will rise up and overthrow the old, ignorant, tired tyrants that trouble too many lands. Then those lands too will join the community of free and prosperous nations.
And America will welcome them.
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
BTS;1111326 wrote: Maybe we should look at one man's thoughts, just "What Is An American?"
What Is An American?
By Peter Ferrara, an associate professor of law at the George Mason University School of Law.
To Kill an American
ou probably missed it in the rush of news last week, but there was actually a report that someone in Pakistan had published in a newspaper there an offer of a reward to anyone who killed an American, any American. So I just thought I would write to let them know what an American is, so they would know when they found one.
An American is English¦or French, or Italian, Irish, German, Spanish, Polish, Russian or Greek. An American may also be African, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Australian, Iranian, Asian, or Arab, or Pakistani, or Afghan.
An American is Christian, or he could be Jewish, or Buddhist, or Muslim. In fact, there are more Muslims in America than in Afghanistan. The only difference is that in America they are free to worship as each of them choose.
An American is also free to believe in no religion. For that he will answer only to God, not to the government, or to armed thugs claiming to speak for the government and for God.
An American is from the most prosperous land in the history of the world. The root of that prosperity can be found in the Declaration of Independence, which recognizes the God-given right of each man and woman to the pursuit of happiness.
An American is generous. Americans have helped out just about every other nation in the world in their time of need. When Afghanistan was overrun by the Soviet army 20 years ago, Americans came with arms and supplies to enable the people to win back their country. As of the morning of September 11, Americans had given more than any other nation to the poor in Afghanistan.
An American does not have to obey the mad ravings of ignorant, ungodly cruel, old men. American men will not be fooled into giving up their lives to kill innocent people, so that these foolish old men may hold on to power. American women are free to show their beautiful faces to the world, as each of them choose.
An American is free to criticize his government's officials when they are wrong, in his or her own opinion. Then he is free to replace them, by majority vote.
Americans welcome people from all lands, all cultures, all religions, because they are not afraid. They are not afraid that their history, their religion, their beliefs, will be overrun, or forgotten. That is because they know they are free to hold to their religion, their beliefs, their history, as each of them choose.
And just as Americans welcome all, they enjoy the best that everyone has to bring, from all over the world. The best science, the best technology, the best products, the best books, the best music, the best food, the best athletes.
Americans welcome the best, but they also welcome the least. The nation symbol of America welcomes your tired and your poor, the wretched refuse of your teeming shores, the homeless, tempest tossed.
These in fact are the people who built America. Many of them were working in the twin towers on the morning of September 11, earning a better life for their families.
So you can try to kill an American if you must. Hitler did. So did General Tojo and Stalin and Mao Tse-Tung, and every bloodthirsty tyrant in the history of the world.
But in doing so you would just be killing yourself. Because Americans are not a particular people from a particular place. They are the embodiment of the human spirit of freedom. Everyone who holds to that spirit, everywhere, is an American.
So look around you. You may find more Americans in your land than you thought were there. One day they will rise up and overthrow the old, ignorant, tired tyrants that trouble too many lands. Then those lands too will join the community of free and prosperous nations.
And America will welcome them.
This was wonderful. Thank you for printing it. :-6
Kathy Ellen;1110949 wrote: I don't feel that we're educating ourselves with a "healthy debate" here in FG. I think that many of these "debates" end up insulting the citizens of my country.
I have "healthy" debates with some of my UK friends here in FG in other areas that enrich our understanding of each other, but I certainly don't feel comfortable in this type of debate....It's constant bashing to me..
I whole heartedly agree with you. Reading some of these posts you get the feeling that the poster, and only the poster, has the answer to the issue being discussed.................... yet no one is pounding on their door to ask them to join the universal world think tank to gather their ideas for the solution to all the world's problems....................... What could this mean?
oscar;1110954 wrote: I often put on threads about our idiotic government or country but we rarely get an American comment on them and it's a great shame.
.
This is true. I do not enter into these discussions because I don't know much about the subject being discussed. I usually just read to pick up info.
My guess, and mind you, this is my opinion only, I think that the vastness of the US and what goes on here is so overwhelming at times, many of us can just keep up with what is happening here, at home. When I was in Europe a couple of years back I was amazed how quickly we crossed from Germany to Belgium to France. It was quicker than going from state to state in the US. Mind you, I have seen the maps, but it just did not register how huge the US is compared to Europe.
Being involved with both family and community, I listen/read about news that is currently happening here and around the world. However, I don't take the time to delve into the happenings of all the many countries in Europe and Asia just as Europeans and Asians do not delve into the happens in all the individuals states of the US.
Kathy Ellen;1110965 wrote: Thank you Julie, I appreciate your thoughts:-6. You are the 1st person to wonder why many people don't post on the UK threads. I am very interested in discussing all issues with other cultures, but I don't enjoy heated debates. I don't want you to think I'm intimidated by these threads because I'm not...I just don't like arguing, blaming others and anger.
I would love to post in some of your UK threads about your government and economy, and try to understand your culture and government better. But, I wouldn't join these threads because some members would demand that I validate every one of my thoughts. In other words, I'm made to feel that my opinions are not appreciate in these threads. That has been said many times.....It's always prove it show links Links are important but geeze...
When I see a thread that will appreciate my educated or emotional opinions, then I will post there. I discuss politics, religion and world affairs with lots of members here. But, I think the difference is that they respect what I have to offer even though they don't agree.
I have learned so much about my UK and Aussie friends here through friendly discussions. I do believe that more members would enjoy becoming a part of political, philosophical and religious threads if they felt that their opinions were appreciated.
I just don't understand why these threads have to be so confrontational. Why can't we just talk without having to argue and prove every thought that we have?
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl Maybe we should have a special forum for "Friendly political, religious and philosophical discussions"...bet that thread would be busy and endear everyone to think about joining in with their thoughts...
Friendly exchanges and encounters do more to change people and the world than arguing and thumping one's chest ever will.
Think of when you travel. You are excited to learn new things. Maybe you don't agree with their way of doing things, but you accept and enjoy them for who they are.
Kindle;1111374 wrote: [quote=BTS]So you can try to kill an American if you must. Hitler did. So did General Tojo and Stalin and Mao Tse-Tung, and every bloodthirsty tyrant in the history of the world.This was wonderful. Thank you for printing it. :-6
When on earth did Stalin ever try to kill an American?
When did Mao Tse-Tung try to kill an American?
That's such drivel.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"] Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
AussiePam;1110973 wrote: I agree totally, Kathy. And it's a great pity. There are four or five mega-posters in FG who obviously have unlimited time and energy to swamp the interesting threads many of us who have outside lives would otherwise enjoy dialogue in. It's just not worth the aggro. I've found a good dinner party with intelligent, well mannered companions with open minds and preferably a good sense of humour is a most satisfying alternative to the endless repetitive bullying and bickering in this forum.
jimbo;1109648 wrote: The US will find it difficult to go ahead with any prosecution of Qahtani given that evidence obtained under torture would be inadmissible. Some within the US have argued that evidence obtained at a later stage and not tainted by torture could still be used. Gutierrez described Qahtani as severely traumatised and suggested he be returned to Saudi Arabia, which runs a rehabilitation programme.
You know what, torture is not right but this scumbag you gladly support should not walk free....ANYWHERE......
I think I know why you support him, Anything Ant-Bush will fit your mold...just fine
Didn't we deport him once August 4, 2001 ? Then, just where was that again that he was caught in Dec. 2001? Oh yah, fighting Americans and Brits in Afghanistan.......
Another point is that he was referred to as "the last one" to "complete the group". In reference to the 9/11 murderers.
From the liberals at wikpedia:
One of the organizers of the September 11 attacks, Mustafa al-Hawsawi, referred to al-Kahtani in intercepted telephone calls as "the last one" to "complete the group".
Speaking of torture...... I wonder how tortured the thousands that died from his friends bombing of the world trade center felt up until the time they perished? He would have been there if we would not deported his A$$..............
No this scumbag should be tried and executed for war crimes if found guilty.........
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
spot;1111476 wrote: When on earth did Stalin ever try to kill an American?
When did Mao Tse-Tung try to kill an American?
That's such drivel.
Leave it to spot to MISS the WHOLE point.........
Here is the WHOLE Quote:
"So you can try to kill an American if you must. Hitler did. So did General Tojo and Stalin and Mao Tse-Tung, and every bloodthirsty tyrant in the history of the world.
But in doing so you would just be killing yourself. Because Americans are not a particular people from a particular place. They are the embodiment of the human spirit of freedom. Everyone who holds to that spirit, everywhere, is an American."
Speakin of ol Stalin........
Kill tally: Approximately 20 million, including up to 14.5 million needlessly starved to death. At least one million executed for political "offences". At least 9.5 million more deported, exiled or imprisoned in work camps, with many of the estimated five million sent to the 'Gulag Archipelago' never returning alive. Other estimates place the number of deported at 28 million, including 18 million sent to the 'Gulag'.
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
jimbo;1109648 wrote: now bush issues pardons so that his criminal henchmen cant face justice:-5
America moves toward a more just and humane govt and the policy shifts against the world hated war on terror "we must murder anyone guilty or not" attitude that was American policy
and in the past on fg if you spoke out against bush and Blair ,you had a load of wah wah boo hoo anti American posts crap
now America is going the way of the rest civilised world
so if you are pro war/bush/blair you are clearly not being patriotic to America and i would like this blatant anti Americanism stopped immediately :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
Bush administration: 'We tortured Qahtani'
• President expected to issue last-minute pardons
• Politicians risk being arrested and tried abroad
Ewen MacAskill in Washington, Vikram Dodd
The Guardian, Thursday 15 January 2009
Article history
US lawyers battling against torture and other abuses at Guantánamo Bay are braced for George Bush issuing last-minute pardons to protect those in his administration most closely implicated.
The lawyers' warning came after a senior member of the Bush administration, Susan Crawford, admitted for the first time that torture had been carried out. Until now, the Bush administration, in particular the vice-president, Dick Cheney, had denied the interrogation techniques at Guantánamo constituted torture.
Crawford's admission of torture is in relation to the case of a Saudi national, Mohammed al-Qahtani, 30, accused of involvement in the 9/11 attack. He is often referred to by US authorities as the "20th hijacker". He was denied entry to the US in August 2001 and captured in Afghanistan in 2002. He was tortured for a month and then kept in isolation.
Crawford, a Pentagon official who last year was put in charge of military commissions that decide whether detainees should be tried, told the Washington Post: "We tortured Qahtani. His treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that's why I did not refer the case [for prosecution]." She added: "The techniques they used were all authorised, but the manner in which they applied them was overly aggressive and too persistent."
Bush can issue a pardon to anyone he chooses between now and leaving office at midday on Tuesday. But lawyers warned yesterday that although such a pardon would prevent the politicians and officials from being prosecuted in the US, they would face the risk of being arrested in other countries, as was President Augusto Pinochet.
Gita Gutierrez, Qahtani's lawyer, said yesterday: "We are all concerned that President Bush will hand out pardons as he leaves office. His closest advisers are those most involved in overseeing torture by US personnel. It may prevent their prosecution in the US but it would not prevent other countries pursuing justice along the lines of Pinochet."
Pinochet, who took power in a coup in Chile in the 1970s, was arrested in Britain in 1998 accused of human rights abuses and held until allowed to go home in 2000 on medical grounds.
Gutierrez, who works for the New York-based Center for Constitutional Rights, which represents many of Guantánamo's 200-plus inmates, said she thought Qahtani's torture constituted a war crime.
The International Red Cross, the only independent body with access to Guantánamo, does not speak about specific cases, but it said yesterday that in general, acts of torture could amount to war crimes. Red Cross spokesman Simon Schorno said: "The third Geneva convention prohibits any ill treatment of a person held in the context of a conflict."
The US will find it difficult to go ahead with any prosecution of Qahtani given that evidence obtained under torture would be inadmissible. Some within the US have argued that evidence obtained at a later stage and not tainted by torture could still be used. Gutierrez described Qahtani as severely traumatised and suggested he be returned to Saudi Arabia, which runs a rehabilitation programme.sounds like a system of a down song...
These are the same Germans the Americans were killing at the same time?
This is when he was Uncle Joe and getting supplied by the US?
I don't see how "in doing so you would just be killing yourself" if the Americas were doing the same thing to the same people.
It rather messes up this concept that "Everyone who holds to that spirit, everywhere, is an American" when so many freedom-loving people around the planet pray nightly for the Americans to go home and stop sponsoring the killers who destroy their villages.
If you do it in your own country that's fine. If you do it to people who can't vote you out then you're murderers.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"] Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Themis;1112358 wrote: I love the American people but I fear for them, I don't care about insults, I'm just afraid.. the American people will suffer in the next three years..
Be ready........
Amen to that Themis.
Watch Obama side with Iran. Watch Israel turn very very ugly towards America.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
jimbo;1112366 wrote: you mean pull nasty faces :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
ok i'll get my coat now :o
I was thinking more in terms of threats to Obama and a possible stand off between Iran/Israel/America similar to The Bay of Pigs but if you want to get your coat Jumbo.. I won't be joining you. I will be here backing our wonderfull prime Minister as ever.
Besides, there is not a coat manufactured that could fit you :yh_rotfl
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
JAB;1112401 wrote: What concerns me is that there are already a number of times that Obama has gone back on some of his earlier positions once he got more and more briefings. This just proves to me that it's always easier to govern a country from the campaign trail then it is sitting behind the desk in the Oval office.
I'm not sure even he realizes what he's up against.
Very well said. Now maybe you'll see why Britain's foriegn office is bracing themselves :wah:
We are far too cynical here. We like the 'Show us the money' proof first.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Themis;1112367 wrote: You're wrong on both counts.. if you think that Obama is different then you are mistaken, democracy died in America when Kennedy was shot and George Bush senior took over the investigation.
No No No Themis...... Against my British country men, i believe the WORST thing that ever happened to America is Obama.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Jester;1110544 wrote: It's because we went there, did the job that needed to be done and have the information that has identified and stop a lot of the attacks against us. Its a combination of both. And Both parts of the counter attacks need to continue in order to eventually stop this, throwing up yer hands and saying we will never stop this so lets be civil and not kill them in return is just stupidity.
In a word, dangly bits!
You went in because GWB's sainted father had unfinished business - nothing to do with 9/11, your own commission has testified to that. Iraq had no involvement in 9/11 or the organisations which carried it out - post Desert Storm Iraq had been in isolationist mode and had renounced the power to threaten anyone, least of all the USA.
If you wish to continue to claim otherwise then bring out your evidence, otherwise it is all waffle and cover-up.
Jester;1110545 wrote: blah blah blah, yer mumbling little girl... Themis/Six Years Left/( or is it 4 years left now?) Ian- yer so caught up in your world ending conspiracy theory crap you cant think past it... Yer brain washed, actually I think someone took a brillo pad to yer gray matter and scrubbed it clean away!
I though better of you Far - falling into personal insult is beneath you.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"] Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Jester;1112698 wrote: As I said to Bryn, ya'll er gonna have to find another american to take yer bait and have yer fun. I been hooked enough times, my lips gettin kind of sore.
Sorry Bryn but ya'll can find another amercian to take yer bait.
Not bait Jester, direct contradiction to almost everything you've posted on the subject.
You claim the Earth but consistently refuse to back up your claims with evidence. Deal in fact or stop this attempted justification of the unjustifiable.
It's all the victim's fault wears a little thin after a while.
Jester;1112698 wrote: As I said to Bryn, ya'll er gonna have to find another american to take yer bait and have yer fun. I been hooked enough times, my lips gettin kind of sore.
You know perfectly well I asked you an unanswerable question and that your only possible way of avoiding the implication is to leave it unanswered.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"] Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Jester;1112708 wrote: I'm getting rather tired of it.It's nothing compared to being called anti-Semitic which has been the accusation thrown at me for most of my time here.
Which country is Gaza in?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"] Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
:):yh_flag
:o