Gordon Brown lashes out at RBS bank chiefs.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:16 pm

RBS on the brink of nationlisation.

RBS on the brink as shares plummet by 69% and City is warned: 'You're about to become Iceland-on-Thames | Mail Online

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:28 am

Ooh gordon shows his teeth, bet the banks are scared. He's still a useless tosser.

Another fine mess - or some terrible dream?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009 ... ch-economy

What's really depressing is it has all happened before. GB as a scottish educated economist should have known better.

http://www.investopedia.com/features/cr ... ashes3.asp

In the olden days druids cut open animals and looked at the entrails and deluded themselves and those around them that they could see the future, anyone sceptical was ignored. Nowadays economists and bankers do the same with spreadsheets and anyone predicting doom is dismissed as a cassandra. Maybe we should remember she was actually right and pay more attention to them and not be taken in by crooks in suits.

We jail people for robbery and fraud unless, it seems, they are bankers and contributors to political parties.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:21 pm

gmc;1113955 wrote: Ooh gordon shows his teeth, bet the banks are scared. He's still a useless tosser.

Another fine mess - or some terrible dream?

Simon Hoggart's sketch: Another fine economic mess - or some terrible dream? | Politics | The Guardian

What's really depressing is it has all happened before. GB as a scottish educated economist should have known better.

Crashes: The South Sea Bubble

In the olden days druids cut open animals and looked at the entrails and deluded themselves and those around them that they could see the future, anyone sceptical was ignored. Nowadays economists and bankers do the same with spreadsheets and anyone predicting doom is dismissed as a cassandra. Maybe we should remember she was actually right and pay more attention to them and not be taken in by crooks in suits.

We jail people for robbery and fraud unless, it seems, they are bankers and contributors to political parties.

I think he's more pissed that he cut interest rates and the banks have been slow to pass these on.

The bankers should be facing charges of corruption...... Nothing less. The British tax payer bails them out again.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:41 pm

oscar;1114503 wrote: I think he's more pissed that he cut interest rates and the banks have been slow to pass these on.

The bankers should be facing charges of corruption...... Nothing less. The British tax payer bails them out again.

No, the previous boss should be facing charges of stupidity in pursuing the dream long after it had turned sour - the majority of the RBS capital went on buying ABN Ambro (which was bought after they had sold off the one part that was the declared target of the takeover) and the majority of the toxic assets have come from there.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:49 pm

Bryn Mawr;1114511 wrote: No, the previous boss should be facing charges of stupidity in pursuing the dream long after it had turned sour - the majority of the RBS capital went on buying ABN Ambro (which was bought after they had sold off the one part that was the declared target of the takeover) and the majority of the toxic assets have come from there.

I must confess i have some more reading to do on the subject. How is this going to affect jobs at RBS?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:57 pm

oscar;1114521 wrote: I must confess i have some more reading to do on the subject. How is this going to affect jobs at RBS?

Badly!

But hopefully mostly in the Corporate Markets arm where most of the losses are.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:18 pm

Bryn Mawr;1114530 wrote: Badly!

But hopefully mostly in the Corporate Markets arm where most of the losses are.

The people of Fife will not be happy with their MP then.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:44 pm

oscar;1114541 wrote: The people of Fife will not be happy with their MP then.

Not when they start losing their jobs they won't. They are thinking about erecting a public toilet in kirkcaldy in his honour. He's been taking the **** all this time so it seems only right.:-3

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:51 pm

gmc;1114562 wrote: Not when they start losing their jobs they won't. They are thinking about erecting a public toilet in kirkcaldy in his honour. He's been taking the **** all this time so it seems only right.:-3

Do you know gmc....... I almost laughed then..... I reminded myself it was you and the moment of madness left me. :yh_rotfl

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:08 pm

gmc;1114562 wrote: Not when they start losing their jobs they won't. They are thinking about erecting a public toilet in kirkcaldy in his honour. He's been taking the **** all this time so it seems only right.:-3

It's Sir Fred we're all blaming, maniac as he was. Darling of the Stock Market until it all went sour.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:57 am

Bryn Mawr;1114593 wrote: It's Sir Fred we're all blaming, maniac as he was. Darling of the Stock Market until it all went sour.

What were the board of directors doing at the time? Once upon a time going wrecking a company would have made someone a pariah and they would have limped away in to shamed obscurity, now they seem to think it unfair if they get fired and#or lose their bonus payments.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:56 am

gmc;1114981 wrote: What were the board of directors doing at the time? Once upon a time going wrecking a company would have made someone a pariah and they would have limped away in to shamed obscurity, now they seem to think it unfair if they get fired and#or lose their bonus payments.

Scurrying round, obeying orders and trying to keep their jobs - he's not know as Fred the Shred without reason :wah:

He's at least admitted that he's unlikely to get a job in banking again although he's never apologised for what he's done - unlike Sir Tom, the outgoing Chairman.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:07 pm

Bryn Mawr;1115501 wrote: Scurrying round, obeying orders and trying to keep their jobs - he's not know as Fred the Shred without reason :wah:

He's at least admitted that he's unlikely to get a job in banking again although he's never apologised for what he's done - unlike Sir Tom, the outgoing Chairman.

I actually feel really bad about this. Tell me Bryn, do you see it as the Government to blame or down to these bank chiefs?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:57 pm

oscar;1115513 wrote: I actually feel really bad about this. Tell me Bryn, do you see it as the Government to blame or down to these bank chiefs?

The problems at RBS are mostly down to Fred and his bullish insistence to push through a buyout that made less and less sense as the market turned.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:21 pm

Bryn Mawr;1115547 wrote: The problems at RBS are mostly down to Fred and his bullish insistence to push through a buyout that made less and less sense as the market turned.

Thankyou. Surely Brown should have seen it coming, i feel.

I was reading one of the broadsheets and the speculation that it will take 10 years to recover fully from the impact this has had.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:37 pm

oscar;1115577 wrote: Thankyou. Surely Brown should have seen it coming, i feel.

I was reading one of the broadsheets and the speculation that it will take 10 years to recover fully from the impact this has had.

WHAT!!!!!:eek::eek::eek: Are you actually beginning to realise gordie boy might be flawed after all. Keep away from the broadsheets they don't have enough pictures for the average daily mail reader and they use big words like incompetent, devious, hypocritical, narcissistic and nincompoop.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:38 pm

oscar;1115577 wrote: Thankyou. Surely Brown should have seen it coming, i feel.

I was reading one of the broadsheets and the speculation that it will take 10 years to recover fully from the impact this has had.

When Japan got into this level of difficulty it took them that long to pull out of it - this time its global rather than just one country.

I'm with Galbally, I think that this is a sea change in the world economy and we will not "recover", we'll evolve in a different direction with a diferent economic model.

Chookie · Post by **Chookie** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:24 pm

Fred the Shred does have a great of blame to shoulder, but what the hell happened to the regulatory process?

In my view, what we are now seeing (and suffering, in many cases) is the final death of Thatcherism and laissez faire economics.

Basic economic theory says that economies are cyclical and go through inevitable highs and lows, the present state of the worlds economies is normally presented as a Kondratieff "Long Wave" equation.

I disagree, I don't think economies do run on a cyclical basis. I reckon it's tidal and it runs on differential comsumptions.

Before you ask, I don't got no solutions (except the one in my glass).

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:59 pm

gmc;1115586 wrote: WHAT!!!!!:eek::eek::eek: Are you actually beginning to realise gordie boy might be flawed after all. Keep away from the broadsheets they don't have enough pictures for the average daily mail reader and they use big words like incompetent, devious, hypocritical, narcissistic and nincompoop.Gordie Boy flawed???? NO, never do you hear.

Since you attached me that dictionary dear Braveheart Party of One, I have learnt some big words such as incredible, immaculate, indispensible, Irreplacable, and inyerfaceable

:D:D

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:00 pm

Chookie;1115621 wrote: Fred the Shred does have a great of blame to shoulder, but what the hell happened to the regulatory process?

In my view, what we are now seeing (and suffering, in many cases) is the final death of Thatcherism and laissez faire economics.

Basic economic theory says that economies are cyclical and go through inevitable highs and lows, the present state of the worlds economies is normally presented as a Kondratieff "Long Wave" equation.

I disagree, I don't think economies do run on a cyclical basis. I reckon it's tidal and it runs on differential comsumptions.

Before you ask, I don't got no solutions (except the one in my glass).

I really am beginning to warm to you

:D

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:08 pm

Chookie;1115621 wrote: Fred the Shred does have a great of blame to shoulder, but what the hell happened to the regulatory process?

In my view, what we are now seeing (and suffering, in many cases) is the final death of Thatcherism and laissez faire economics.

Basic economic theory says that economies are cyclical and go through inevitable highs and lows, the present state of the worlds economies is normally presented as a Kondratieff "Long Wave" equation.

I disagree, I don't think economies do run on a cyclical basis. I reckon it's tidal and it runs on differential comsumptions.

Before you ask, I don't got no solutions (except the one in my glass).

We satisfied all of the requirements (the Dutch ones were far more stringent than the UK by the way), it was just paying too much for the wrong bank at the wrong time leaving too little cash in the pot and a poorly understood portfolio which turned out to contain a lot of toxic debt.

As to Kondratieff, interesting idea, it even sounds familiar :-

The imbalances of this period have been historically exaggerated by what can be labeled a "peak war". Examples such as War of 1812, the Civil War, World War I and Vietnam, came at the end of a very affluent period. These Wars produce strains on the economy increasing the impact of inflation. A dramatic drop in output, rapid rise in unemployment and unusually severe recession characterize this period.

Kondratieff Long Wave Cycles Past and Present

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:11 pm

gmc;1115586 wrote: WHAT!!!!!:eek::eek::eek: Are you actually beginning to realise gordie boy might be flawed after all. Keep away from the broadsheets they don't have enough pictures for the average daily mail reader and they use big words like incompetent, devious, hypocritical, narcissistic and nincompoop.

Get used to it auld yin

YouTube - Stranglers - Golden Brown 1997 live

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:08 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-storie ... -21054633/

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:24 am

I did remember saying that if the British government tried to use Keynesian measures to get out of this problem, and particularly if they borrowed money to try and cover private banking losses, that they would cause Sterling to come under very severe pressure as a currency.

They have gone in that direction, and Sterling is now under severe pressure, the next step they are discussing is creating a national toxic bank, or the full nationalization of all the banks, its obvious that something along these lines has to be done now, as essentially the banking system is collapsed, (as it is in several other countries), but the particular problem in Britain is the currency.

What has to be understood clearly is that Sterling is simply not a reserve currency anymore and hasn't been for many years, its value is directly linked to outside confidence in the British economy (which contained failing banks that in hindsight can be seen were far too large as proportions of economic output and GDP), and the economic area it covers is small relative to the Dollar or the Euro. Britain's tax base is very small compared to the Euro zone or the US, and if the government borrowings reach an amounts that exceed a certain level, the outside world will make a judgement that it will be impossible for Britain to repay those debts.

On top of this, if the British Government have to start printing money, then the currency may come under even more severe pressure, and you could see it going well below parity with the Euro, I mean well below, unless any such actions are co-ordinated with the ECB to make sure that the differentials between the two currencies don't become too large. That could be catastrophic for Britain, which still has to pay in Pounds for things imported from Europe (priced in Euros) and the US (priced in Dollars), and elsewhere. In fact if its not Euros you can be assured that anything important you import from abroad is priced in Dollars, (like oil), and also of course Britain has to service its debts using Sterling so if Sterling falls by 50 percent over a year, then national debt also consequently goes up, thought its complex because it depends who your borrowing from, and on what terms).

So generally, all round, its a disaster, and frankly for Ireland as well as we have an open land border with the UK and we're the only Eurozone country that has. We have a different set of problems being in the Euro, but right now, I'd much rather be in the single currency than out of it.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:41 am

RBS shares rose 25% yesterday :-6