this is torture
this is torture
And British people think that its the European Union thats eroding British soverignty.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
this is torture
jimbo;1127295 wrote: when i first joined fg ,i was very anti Europe 
i have been and always will be pro American ,my daughter lives there and is an American
now days i find myself thinking that the Europeans are capable of open minds and constructive dialog and some of the Americans are so blinkered in their views ,that if you dont agree with every single thing they say you are accused of being anti American ,free speech land of the free my spotty bald arse
:)
funny how no one has commented on this gross violation of freedom of information:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Hey me lad, its not being anti-American to support the freedom of your own judges to make rulings in British courts now is it?
I understand what you mean, I have always been, and still am quite pro-US because there is far more right about that country than wrong, but your allowed to still have your own country I think Jimbo, I think most Americans would agree with that.
Its actually a quite shocking story, it should be a real wake up call about the way that the British establishment have behaved during the Bush years. Not very edifying for anyone involved.
i have been and always will be pro American ,my daughter lives there and is an American
now days i find myself thinking that the Europeans are capable of open minds and constructive dialog and some of the Americans are so blinkered in their views ,that if you dont agree with every single thing they say you are accused of being anti American ,free speech land of the free my spotty bald arse
:)funny how no one has commented on this gross violation of freedom of information
:rolleyes::rolleyes:Hey me lad, its not being anti-American to support the freedom of your own judges to make rulings in British courts now is it?
I understand what you mean, I have always been, and still am quite pro-US because there is far more right about that country than wrong, but your allowed to still have your own country I think Jimbo, I think most Americans would agree with that.
Its actually a quite shocking story, it should be a real wake up call about the way that the British establishment have behaved during the Bush years. Not very edifying for anyone involved.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
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along-for-the-ride
- Posts: 11732
- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:28 pm
this is torture
I do wonder how many torture victims lie just to get their tormenters to stop. The main problem with lying is that if the victim gets caught in the lie, matters could be worse for the victim.
Torture is just cruel. IMO
Torture is just cruel. IMO
Life is a Highway. Let's share the Commute.
this is torture
jimbo;1127295 wrote: when i first joined fg ,i was very anti Europe
i have been and always will be pro American ,my daughter lives there and is an American
now days i find myself thinking that the Europeans are capable of open minds and constructive dialog and some of the Americans are so blinkered in their views ,that if you dont agree with every single thing they say you are accused of being anti American ,free speech land of the free my spotty bald arse:)
funny how no one has commented on this gross violation of freedom of information:rolleyes::rolleyes:
They call themselves ditto heads.
I imagine the right wing are fainting all over the country as Obama announces a new health bill he signed covering 11,000,000 uninsured children.
The horror of it all
Wheres the money going to come from theyll shout !
Same group that thinks it normal to spend billions on war.
i have been and always will be pro American ,my daughter lives there and is an American
now days i find myself thinking that the Europeans are capable of open minds and constructive dialog and some of the Americans are so blinkered in their views ,that if you dont agree with every single thing they say you are accused of being anti American ,free speech land of the free my spotty bald arse
:)funny how no one has commented on this gross violation of freedom of information
:rolleyes::rolleyes:They call themselves ditto heads.
I imagine the right wing are fainting all over the country as Obama announces a new health bill he signed covering 11,000,000 uninsured children.
The horror of it all
Wheres the money going to come from theyll shout !
Same group that thinks it normal to spend billions on war.
I AM AWESOME MAN
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Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
this is torture
Torture is my personal hate trigger.
I've been struggling with this since Guantanamo.
America is still lived in by good people.
I will reply later.
I've been struggling with this since Guantanamo.
America is still lived in by good people.
I will reply later.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
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scholle-kid
- Posts: 765
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:53 pm
this is torture
jimbo;1127295 wrote: when i first joined fg ,i was very anti Europe
i have been and always will be pro American ,my daughter lives there and is an American
now days i find myself thinking that the Europeans are capable of open minds and constructive dialog and some of the Americans are so blinkered in their views ,that if you don't agree with every single thing they say you are accused of being anti American ,free speech land of the free my spotty bald arse:)the alleged torture of a terrorist
funny how no one has commented on this gross violation of freedom of information:rolleyes::rolleyes:
I have been reading the follow up stories on this and to do that I had to register and then wait for an email with a link to to verify the email I signed up with.
I can't say that neither the the alleged torture of a terrorist nor the allegations of blackmail of the UK by the USA is really surprising . but there seems to be some problem with all the 'stories ' that your guys are telling .
However, Mr Miliband told Sky News: "No10 has said and I say that there has been no threat by the US to 'break off' intelligence cooperation." and
Earlier, the Prime Minister's spokesman said: "I'm not aware of any such threat.
"We have a very strong intelligence relationship with the US and this will continue."
I figure that either some of your guys are liking or some of our guys are liking or maybe some of both sides are telling the truth or none of the politicians involved are being truthful or maybe now that bush jr is back home in Texas everybody is telling tales out of school . or the media is stirring up the pot because everyone knows how most of the world feels about torture and goings on at Guantanamo Bay . I figure that most every body is wanting the whole ugly mess to be handled in a humane and legal way and get cleaned up as quick as it can be done.
At this point about all we know for sure and certain is that bush left us in a hell of a mess and we can only hope Obama sticks to his words and gets our country started in the right direction so that bush will become part of the history of this country , all countries have to kinds of history . one kind that the citizens come stand up and be proud of and the ugly kind that the citizens all need to remember and learn from .
i have been and always will be pro American ,my daughter lives there and is an American
now days i find myself thinking that the Europeans are capable of open minds and constructive dialog and some of the Americans are so blinkered in their views ,that if you don't agree with every single thing they say you are accused of being anti American ,free speech land of the free my spotty bald arse
:)the alleged torture of a terroristfunny how no one has commented on this gross violation of freedom of information
:rolleyes::rolleyes:I have been reading the follow up stories on this and to do that I had to register and then wait for an email with a link to to verify the email I signed up with.
I can't say that neither the the alleged torture of a terrorist nor the allegations of blackmail of the UK by the USA is really surprising . but there seems to be some problem with all the 'stories ' that your guys are telling .
However, Mr Miliband told Sky News: "No10 has said and I say that there has been no threat by the US to 'break off' intelligence cooperation." and
Earlier, the Prime Minister's spokesman said: "I'm not aware of any such threat.
"We have a very strong intelligence relationship with the US and this will continue."
I figure that either some of your guys are liking or some of our guys are liking or maybe some of both sides are telling the truth or none of the politicians involved are being truthful or maybe now that bush jr is back home in Texas everybody is telling tales out of school . or the media is stirring up the pot because everyone knows how most of the world feels about torture and goings on at Guantanamo Bay . I figure that most every body is wanting the whole ugly mess to be handled in a humane and legal way and get cleaned up as quick as it can be done.
At this point about all we know for sure and certain is that bush left us in a hell of a mess and we can only hope Obama sticks to his words and gets our country started in the right direction so that bush will become part of the history of this country , all countries have to kinds of history . one kind that the citizens come stand up and be proud of and the ugly kind that the citizens all need to remember and learn from .
There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.
this is torture
I think it's more a comment about the personalities of the political readers involved rather than anything to do with the respective countries and their populations. You had an americam president that was prepared to abrogate the constitution and rule of law and a british prime miister prepared to lie to parliament and al his cabinet went along with it-apart from robin cook that is.
posted by scholle-kid
I figure that either some of your guys are liking or some of our guys are liking or maybe some of both sides are telling the truth or none of the politicians involved are being truthful or maybe now that bush jr is back home in Texas everybody is telling tales out of school . or the media is stirring up the pot because everyone knows how most of the world feels about torture and goings on at Guantanamo Bay . I figure that most every body is wanting the whole ugly mess to be handled in a humane and legal way and get cleaned up as quick as it can be done.
At this point about all we know for sure and certain is that bush left us in a hell of a mess and we can only hope Obama sticks to his words and gets our country started in the right direction so that bush will become part of the history of this country , all countries have to kinds of history . one kind that the citizens come stand up and be proud of and the ugly kind that the citizens all need to remember and learn from .
It's two high court judges that are saying this not some member of the loony left. We have an independent judiciary here that are not dependent on political patronage to the same extent to be appointed and once appointed they can't be fired. One of the principle functions of our court system-and indeed any court system in a democracy is to curb the power of government to do what it likes.
On the other hand we have politicians who are known to lie and think they are above the law. It's rare for high court judges to be so openly condemnatory about the government. We don't have a supreme court but the significance is similar as if two of your supreme court judges were to complain that the british govt refused to hand over evidence of the way an american was treated while in british hands. More significantly it is implied that the british government was complicit in allowing suspects to be tortured and are trying to cover it up.
Evidence of torture 'buried by ministers' | World news | The Guardian
In further stinging comments they said: "Moreover, in the light of the long history of the common law and democracy which we share with the United States, it was, in our view, very difficult to conceive that a democratically elected and accountable government could possibly have any rational objection to placing into the public domain such a summary of what its own officials reported as to how a detainee was treated by them and which made no disclosure of sensitive intelligence matters.
"Indeed we did not consider that a democracy governed by the rule of law would expect a court in another democracy to suppress a summary of the evidence contained in reports by its own officials ... relevant to allegations of torture and cruel, inhumane, or degrading treatment, politically embarrassing though it might be." The judges said yesterday: "It is plainly right that the details of the admissions in relation to the treatment of [Mohamed] as reported by officials of the United States government should be brought into the public domain."
posted by galbally
Hey me lad, its not being anti-American to support the freedom of your own judges to make rulings in British courts now is it?
Nor is it anti-british or unpatriotic to want to see the lying set of crooked, incompetent shysters we have in government sorted out.
posted by scholle-kid
I figure that either some of your guys are liking or some of our guys are liking or maybe some of both sides are telling the truth or none of the politicians involved are being truthful or maybe now that bush jr is back home in Texas everybody is telling tales out of school . or the media is stirring up the pot because everyone knows how most of the world feels about torture and goings on at Guantanamo Bay . I figure that most every body is wanting the whole ugly mess to be handled in a humane and legal way and get cleaned up as quick as it can be done.
At this point about all we know for sure and certain is that bush left us in a hell of a mess and we can only hope Obama sticks to his words and gets our country started in the right direction so that bush will become part of the history of this country , all countries have to kinds of history . one kind that the citizens come stand up and be proud of and the ugly kind that the citizens all need to remember and learn from .
It's two high court judges that are saying this not some member of the loony left. We have an independent judiciary here that are not dependent on political patronage to the same extent to be appointed and once appointed they can't be fired. One of the principle functions of our court system-and indeed any court system in a democracy is to curb the power of government to do what it likes.
On the other hand we have politicians who are known to lie and think they are above the law. It's rare for high court judges to be so openly condemnatory about the government. We don't have a supreme court but the significance is similar as if two of your supreme court judges were to complain that the british govt refused to hand over evidence of the way an american was treated while in british hands. More significantly it is implied that the british government was complicit in allowing suspects to be tortured and are trying to cover it up.
Evidence of torture 'buried by ministers' | World news | The Guardian
In further stinging comments they said: "Moreover, in the light of the long history of the common law and democracy which we share with the United States, it was, in our view, very difficult to conceive that a democratically elected and accountable government could possibly have any rational objection to placing into the public domain such a summary of what its own officials reported as to how a detainee was treated by them and which made no disclosure of sensitive intelligence matters.
"Indeed we did not consider that a democracy governed by the rule of law would expect a court in another democracy to suppress a summary of the evidence contained in reports by its own officials ... relevant to allegations of torture and cruel, inhumane, or degrading treatment, politically embarrassing though it might be." The judges said yesterday: "It is plainly right that the details of the admissions in relation to the treatment of [Mohamed] as reported by officials of the United States government should be brought into the public domain."
posted by galbally
Hey me lad, its not being anti-American to support the freedom of your own judges to make rulings in British courts now is it?
Nor is it anti-british or unpatriotic to want to see the lying set of crooked, incompetent shysters we have in government sorted out.
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scholle-kid
- Posts: 765
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:53 pm
this is torture
gmc;1127698 wrote: I think it's more a comment about the personalities of the political readers involved rather than anything to do with the respective countries and their populations. You had an american president that was prepared to abrogate the constitution and rule of law and a british prime minister prepared to lie to parliament and all his cabinet went along with it-apart from robin cook that is.
posted by scholle-kid
It's two high court judges that are saying this not some member of the loony left. We have an independent judiciary here that are not dependent on political patronage to the same extent to be appointed and once appointed they can't be fired. One of the principle functions of our court system-and indeed any court system in a democracy is to curb the power of government to do what it likes.
On the other hand we have politicians who are known to lie and think they are above the law. It's rare for high court judges to be so openly condemnatory about the government. We don't have a supreme court but the significance is similar as if two of your supreme court judges were to complain that the british govt refused to hand over evidence of the way an american was treated while in british hands. More significantly it is implied that the british government was complicit in allowing suspects to be tortured and are trying to cover it up.
Evidence of torture 'buried by ministers' | World news | The Guardian
posted by galbally
Nor is it anti-british or unpatriotic to want to see the lying set of crooked, incompetent shysters we have in government sorted out.
Thank you gmc, I have asked three different people from over there ( not on FG) what the pecking order , line of command, who had the higher standing or authority of the people involved and not a one of them even acknowledged my questions. yes I could have went and found the info for myself , but , the people I ask are the same ones that will jump up and down on any and every topic about America and our laws history or whatever as long as it has America attached to the topic. I can only guess maybe they are so busy being US groupies that maybe they don't know.
OK , I apologize for side tracking off to the south of left field. again , Thank you for the info on your gov.
posted by scholle-kid
It's two high court judges that are saying this not some member of the loony left. We have an independent judiciary here that are not dependent on political patronage to the same extent to be appointed and once appointed they can't be fired. One of the principle functions of our court system-and indeed any court system in a democracy is to curb the power of government to do what it likes.
On the other hand we have politicians who are known to lie and think they are above the law. It's rare for high court judges to be so openly condemnatory about the government. We don't have a supreme court but the significance is similar as if two of your supreme court judges were to complain that the british govt refused to hand over evidence of the way an american was treated while in british hands. More significantly it is implied that the british government was complicit in allowing suspects to be tortured and are trying to cover it up.
Evidence of torture 'buried by ministers' | World news | The Guardian
posted by galbally
Nor is it anti-british or unpatriotic to want to see the lying set of crooked, incompetent shysters we have in government sorted out.
Thank you gmc, I have asked three different people from over there ( not on FG) what the pecking order , line of command, who had the higher standing or authority of the people involved and not a one of them even acknowledged my questions. yes I could have went and found the info for myself , but , the people I ask are the same ones that will jump up and down on any and every topic about America and our laws history or whatever as long as it has America attached to the topic. I can only guess maybe they are so busy being US groupies that maybe they don't know.
OK , I apologize for side tracking off to the south of left field. again , Thank you for the info on your gov.
There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.
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Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
this is torture
However, Mr Miliband told Sky News: "No10 has said and I say that there has been no threat by the US to 'break off' intelligence cooperation."
Watch the words carefully. Milliband is very precise in his denial: no threat to break off intelligence co-operaion. What I take from that is that it is very possible the Americans suggested they might have to review the intelligence situation (hinting at, but not actually saying,"break off") thus allowing Milliband to deny that a break off was mentioned.
Watch the words carefully. Milliband is very precise in his denial: no threat to break off intelligence co-operaion. What I take from that is that it is very possible the Americans suggested they might have to review the intelligence situation (hinting at, but not actually saying,"break off") thus allowing Milliband to deny that a break off was mentioned.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
this is torture
scholle-kid;1127734 wrote: Thank you gmc, I have asked three different people from over there ( not on FG) what the pecking order , line of command, who had the higher standing or authority of the people involved and not a one of them even acknowledged my questions. yes I could have went and found the info for myself , but , the people I ask are the same ones that will jump up and down on any and every topic about America and our laws history or whatever as long as it has America attached to the topic. I can only guess maybe they are so busy being US groupies that maybe they don't know.
OK , I apologize for side tracking off to the south of left field. again , Thank you for the info on your gov.
The two systems are not vastly different in principle-bicameral legislature, independent judiciary-a system of checks and balances to curb the power of authority and all under the rule of laws drawn up by consensus. We don't have a separate elected executive like you do but you can get hung up too much on the detailed differences and you can do mad trying to work out which way is better. If you want to know something just ask here-there are several british posters that will bore you to death on the subject:D
OK , I apologize for side tracking off to the south of left field. again , Thank you for the info on your gov.
The two systems are not vastly different in principle-bicameral legislature, independent judiciary-a system of checks and balances to curb the power of authority and all under the rule of laws drawn up by consensus. We don't have a separate elected executive like you do but you can get hung up too much on the detailed differences and you can do mad trying to work out which way is better. If you want to know something just ask here-there are several british posters that will bore you to death on the subject:D
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scholle-kid
- Posts: 765
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:53 pm
this is torture
gmc;1127757 wrote: The two systems are not vastly different in principle-bicameral legislature, independent judiciary-a system of checks and balances to curb the power of authority and all under the rule of laws drawn up by consensus. We don't have a separate elected executive like you do but you can get hung up too much on the detailed differences and you can do mad trying to work out which way is better. If you want to know something just ask here-there are several british posters that will bore you to death on the subject:D
okay, you opened me the door, is David Miliband the 'spokesman' from the Prime Minsters office? And is #10 the prime minster ? what is the PM name? and why would the 2 judges say they had been 'forced to keep secrets but now they are coming to the media with these same secrets ?
Is it because Bush jr. is back home in Texas ( thank goodness) , why is whatever was forceing them to keep quite no longer an issue ? Don't get me wrong I am not surprized by the alleged torture or the allegation of blackmail of the UK by the USA . and if it turns out that our side did it and your side hid it well that won't surprize me either. Sorry for all the questions , but you did say I could ask.
okay, you opened me the door, is David Miliband the 'spokesman' from the Prime Minsters office? And is #10 the prime minster ? what is the PM name? and why would the 2 judges say they had been 'forced to keep secrets but now they are coming to the media with these same secrets ?
Is it because Bush jr. is back home in Texas ( thank goodness) , why is whatever was forceing them to keep quite no longer an issue ? Don't get me wrong I am not surprized by the alleged torture or the allegation of blackmail of the UK by the USA . and if it turns out that our side did it and your side hid it well that won't surprize me either. Sorry for all the questions , but you did say I could ask.
There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.
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Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
this is torture
scholle-kid: Well, I'll get the ball rolling:
Milliband: A Member of Parliament. Not sure what he does in Government. Foreign Secretary I think but could be wrong.
A very smart cookie. Could be Leader of the Labour Party one day.
"Number 10" is short for "Number 10, Downing Street" which is the Prime Minister's Official Residence. If someone is speaking for Number 10 they are giving the official government line. The Big Three in a British Government are Prime Minister, Chancellor of the Exchequer and Foreign Secretary.
The Prime Minister is Gordon Brown. Say his name quietly or gmc will have a fit and Oscar will dissolve into a puddle of hero worship. Previous PM was Tony Blair.
Regarding the details of this story: haven't seen it, haven't a clue.
Milliband: A Member of Parliament. Not sure what he does in Government. Foreign Secretary I think but could be wrong.
A very smart cookie. Could be Leader of the Labour Party one day.
"Number 10" is short for "Number 10, Downing Street" which is the Prime Minister's Official Residence. If someone is speaking for Number 10 they are giving the official government line. The Big Three in a British Government are Prime Minister, Chancellor of the Exchequer and Foreign Secretary.
The Prime Minister is Gordon Brown. Say his name quietly or gmc will have a fit and Oscar will dissolve into a puddle of hero worship.
Previous PM was Tony Blair.Regarding the details of this story: haven't seen it, haven't a clue.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
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scholle-kid
- Posts: 765
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:53 pm
this is torture
Clodhopper;1127782 wrote: scholle-kid: Well, I'll get the ball rolling:
Miliband: A Member of Parliament. Not sure what he does in Government. Foreign Secretary I think but could be wrong.
A very smart cookie. Could be Leader of the Labour Party one day.
"Number 10" is short for "Number 10, Downing Street" which is the Prime Minister's Official Residence. If someone is speaking for Number 10 they are giving the official government line. The Big Three in a British Government are Prime Minister, Chancellor of the Exchequer and Foreign Secretary.
The Prime Minister is Gordon Brown. Say his name quietly or gmc will have a fit and Oscar will dissolve into a puddle of hero worship. Previous PM was Tony Blair.
Regarding the details of this story: haven't seen it, haven't a clue.
The number 10 isn't as mysterious as I was imagining:yh_rotfl,,,
I would give you the link but it's not my thread and it is in the OP.
When you said in the other post about getting ' hung up in details' you sure called that one .
I got so far off track trying out the different links I wound up in the 18th century .
We have 'major' parties the donkeys and the elephants or Dem. and Rep.
I have seen posts about the labour Party is there an other party. i seem to remember reading some where that the citizens get to vote a local guy in to something and them he does all the voteing after that , is that antwhere close to how it works over there?? and i will leave you alone now . thanks again.
Miliband: A Member of Parliament. Not sure what he does in Government. Foreign Secretary I think but could be wrong.
A very smart cookie. Could be Leader of the Labour Party one day.
"Number 10" is short for "Number 10, Downing Street" which is the Prime Minister's Official Residence. If someone is speaking for Number 10 they are giving the official government line. The Big Three in a British Government are Prime Minister, Chancellor of the Exchequer and Foreign Secretary.
The Prime Minister is Gordon Brown. Say his name quietly or gmc will have a fit and Oscar will dissolve into a puddle of hero worship.
Previous PM was Tony Blair.Regarding the details of this story: haven't seen it, haven't a clue.
The number 10 isn't as mysterious as I was imagining:yh_rotfl,,,
I would give you the link but it's not my thread and it is in the OP.
When you said in the other post about getting ' hung up in details' you sure called that one .
I got so far off track trying out the different links I wound up in the 18th century .
We have 'major' parties the donkeys and the elephants or Dem. and Rep.
I have seen posts about the labour Party is there an other party. i seem to remember reading some where that the citizens get to vote a local guy in to something and them he does all the voteing after that , is that antwhere close to how it works over there?? and i will leave you alone now . thanks again.
There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.
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Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
this is torture
scholle-kid: We get a lot of your tv over here - very good some of it is, too - and as a result most of us have a vague idea how your system works. My impression (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that few in the USA know much about Britain other than as a bunch of people with funny accents who used to have an Empire, and who your ancestors fled from and/or fought against. This is not a criticism - I see no reason why you would know much about a small collection of islands of the NW coast of Europe.
We have two major political parties, Labour and Conservative (or "Tory"); one minor party - Liberal Democrat (the bunch I generally vote for) and a whole host of tiny parties representing regions or nationalist opinion - Democratic Unionist, for example (Northern Irish protestant) or Scottish Nationalist Party (self explanatory).
We have two sorts of election, National and Local. In National elections we elect Member of Parliament, and the Party which gets the most MPs forms the Government. In local elections we vote for the people who organise the rubbish collection, local schools, street cleaning, road maintenance etc etc. The principle is the same as ational elections - the political party that has most members elected runs the County (or Borough) Council.
There are also elections to the European Parliament, but that doesn't mean much at the moment.
i seem to remember reading some where that the citizens get to vote a local guy in to something and them he does all the voteing after that
Not sure what you are getting at here. MPs represent their constituents and so vote on their behalf in Parliament...
We have two major political parties, Labour and Conservative (or "Tory"); one minor party - Liberal Democrat (the bunch I generally vote for) and a whole host of tiny parties representing regions or nationalist opinion - Democratic Unionist, for example (Northern Irish protestant) or Scottish Nationalist Party (self explanatory).
We have two sorts of election, National and Local. In National elections we elect Member of Parliament, and the Party which gets the most MPs forms the Government. In local elections we vote for the people who organise the rubbish collection, local schools, street cleaning, road maintenance etc etc. The principle is the same as ational elections - the political party that has most members elected runs the County (or Borough) Council.
There are also elections to the European Parliament, but that doesn't mean much at the moment.
i seem to remember reading some where that the citizens get to vote a local guy in to something and them he does all the voteing after that
Not sure what you are getting at here. MPs represent their constituents and so vote on their behalf in Parliament...
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
this is torture
scholle-kid;1127779 wrote: okay, you opened me the door, is David Miliband the 'spokesman' from the Prime Minsters office? And is #10 the prime minster ? what is the PM name? and why would the 2 judges say they had been 'forced to keep secrets but now they are coming to the media with these same secrets ?
Is it because Bush jr. is back home in Texas ( thank goodness) , why is whatever was forceing them to keep quite no longer an issue ? Don't get me wrong I am not surprized by the alleged torture or the allegation of blackmail of the UK by the USA . and if it turns out that our side did it and your side hid it well that won't surprize me either. Sorry for all the questions , but you did say I could ask.
David milliband is foreign secretary-any court case involving a foreign government would bring his department in to it. Allegedly it is him who is trying to prevent the judges from speaking out and keep quiet about the refusal of the american govt to answer their questions. The judiciary is independent and he can't actually order them to keep quiet and clearly they are not convinced by his argument it is in the national interest.
Unlike you we do not elect an executive-the government is usually formed by the leader of the party with the largest number of seats the members of the cabinet coming from those elected to parliament. In theory the queen asks him to form her government in theory she can choose another but in practice she has no choice in the matter.
Parliament is the sovereign power, theoretically the PM is Primus inter pares, the first among equals in practice more and more power has been concentrated in the hands of the cabinet and latterly the prime minister. The chancellor is the next most powerful and if he is agin something the PM has a problem but he can remove him, gordon brown-now the PM was chancellor when tony was PM but was a powerful enough character tony had to watch his step. The present incumbent is a party hack that does what gordon tells him.
As I said parliament is sovereign-at any time they can exert their collective will and stop the govt cold if enough MP's object to a course of action, carry a vote of no confidence and force the government out of office. But our MP's seem to have forgotten the traditions of their illustrious forebears and kow tow all the time. The house of lords is an unelected chamber and bills can be slowed and altered there but when push comes to shove parliament can force legislation through if it really wants to- it acts as a check on the power of parliament but can't ultimately overrule it. New labour have been threatening to reform it as well as the court system mainly because both have acted to stop some of the sillier excesses of tony blair.
Is it because Bush jr. is back home in Texas ( thank goodness) , why is whatever was forceing them to keep quite no longer an issue ? Don't get me wrong I am not surprized by the alleged torture or the allegation of blackmail of the UK by the USA . and if it turns out that our side did it and your side hid it well that won't surprize me either. Sorry for all the questions , but you did say I could ask.
David milliband is foreign secretary-any court case involving a foreign government would bring his department in to it. Allegedly it is him who is trying to prevent the judges from speaking out and keep quiet about the refusal of the american govt to answer their questions. The judiciary is independent and he can't actually order them to keep quiet and clearly they are not convinced by his argument it is in the national interest.
Unlike you we do not elect an executive-the government is usually formed by the leader of the party with the largest number of seats the members of the cabinet coming from those elected to parliament. In theory the queen asks him to form her government in theory she can choose another but in practice she has no choice in the matter.
Parliament is the sovereign power, theoretically the PM is Primus inter pares, the first among equals in practice more and more power has been concentrated in the hands of the cabinet and latterly the prime minister. The chancellor is the next most powerful and if he is agin something the PM has a problem but he can remove him, gordon brown-now the PM was chancellor when tony was PM but was a powerful enough character tony had to watch his step. The present incumbent is a party hack that does what gordon tells him.
As I said parliament is sovereign-at any time they can exert their collective will and stop the govt cold if enough MP's object to a course of action, carry a vote of no confidence and force the government out of office. But our MP's seem to have forgotten the traditions of their illustrious forebears and kow tow all the time. The house of lords is an unelected chamber and bills can be slowed and altered there but when push comes to shove parliament can force legislation through if it really wants to- it acts as a check on the power of parliament but can't ultimately overrule it. New labour have been threatening to reform it as well as the court system mainly because both have acted to stop some of the sillier excesses of tony blair.
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scholle-kid
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Clodhopper;1127831 wrote: scholle-kid: We get a lot of your tv over here - very good some of it is, too - and as a result most of us have a vague idea how your system works. My impression (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that few in the USA know much about Britain other than as a bunch of people with funny accents who used to have an Empire, and who your ancestors fled from and/or fought against. This is not a criticism - I see no reason why you would know much about a small collection of islands of the NW coast of Europe.
We have two major political parties, Labour and Conservative (or "Tory"); one minor party - Liberal Democrat (the bunch I generally vote for) and a whole host of tiny parties representing regions or nationalist opinion - Democratic Unionist, for example (Northern Irish protestant) or Scottish Nationalist Party (self explanatory).
We have two sorts of election, National and Local. In National elections we elect Member of Parliament, and the Party which gets the most MPs forms the Government. In local elections we vote for the people who organise the rubbish collection, local schools, street cleaning, road maintenance etc etc. The principle is the same as national elections - the political party that has most members elected runs the County (or Borough) Council.
There are also elections to the European Parliament, but that doesn't mean much at the moment.
Not sure what you are getting at here. MPs represent their constituents and so vote on their behalf in Parliament...
I do recall the MP when I read about your local elections , because the first thing that popped into my mind was cops as in mounted police hence MP , but i read a little further and figured out it wasn't cops that you elected. :wah:
The Tory were the ones that were sent packing back across the ocean a couple of hundred years ago I'm thinking. I seem to remember seeing that word in history books.
I don't now nor have I ever owned a TV. The area I live in is called a 'dead ' area , we don't get TV , cell phone or radio reception here. I was raised here on this ranch since I was 5 years old and will be 49 my next birthday. Until I got my first PC and got on the Internet about 8 years ago I didn't know much about a whole lot of things. But, I did know some things about the British and their island from my Irish great grandmother that didn't really like your ancestors very much ,
I was raised on stories told by a woman that was first generation immigrant over on a ship to Elise island. So, with all that out of the way. You are right about Americans , it does seem like we have very little knowledge about 'over the pond' and i can only go by what I have found on forums and message boards online because as I have stated I didn't no much about a whole lot of things .
We have two major political parties, Labour and Conservative (or "Tory"); one minor party - Liberal Democrat (the bunch I generally vote for) and a whole host of tiny parties representing regions or nationalist opinion - Democratic Unionist, for example (Northern Irish protestant) or Scottish Nationalist Party (self explanatory).
We have two sorts of election, National and Local. In National elections we elect Member of Parliament, and the Party which gets the most MPs forms the Government. In local elections we vote for the people who organise the rubbish collection, local schools, street cleaning, road maintenance etc etc. The principle is the same as national elections - the political party that has most members elected runs the County (or Borough) Council.
There are also elections to the European Parliament, but that doesn't mean much at the moment.
Not sure what you are getting at here. MPs represent their constituents and so vote on their behalf in Parliament...
I do recall the MP when I read about your local elections , because the first thing that popped into my mind was cops as in mounted police hence MP , but i read a little further and figured out it wasn't cops that you elected. :wah:
The Tory were the ones that were sent packing back across the ocean a couple of hundred years ago I'm thinking. I seem to remember seeing that word in history books.
I don't now nor have I ever owned a TV. The area I live in is called a 'dead ' area , we don't get TV , cell phone or radio reception here. I was raised here on this ranch since I was 5 years old and will be 49 my next birthday. Until I got my first PC and got on the Internet about 8 years ago I didn't know much about a whole lot of things. But, I did know some things about the British and their island from my Irish great grandmother that didn't really like your ancestors very much ,
I was raised on stories told by a woman that was first generation immigrant over on a ship to Elise island. So, with all that out of the way. You are right about Americans , it does seem like we have very little knowledge about 'over the pond' and i can only go by what I have found on forums and message boards online because as I have stated I didn't no much about a whole lot of things .
There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.
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Clodhopper
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But, I did know some things about the British and their island from my Irish great grandmother that didn't really like your ancestors very much ,
My Mum was Irish. Her ancestor went over with William of Orange (Protestant, invited over to be King) to deal with James II's (Catholic, dethroned for that reason. People hated and mistrusted the Pope in particular and Catholics in general) attempt to reclaim the British throne with Irish support. He was awarded the estate of some Irish family in return for his service (don't know which), but it was taken off him when William was attempting to conciliate the Irish and said if they could prove they hadn't fought against him they could have their land back. My ancestor spent the rest of his life wandering round Ireland in poverty, writing plaintive letters to the King saying, "Why me?" and "Can I have another one, please?" :wah: He never did get another estate.
300 or so years later my Dad was on a Cricket tour to Ireland and met my Mum. Three weeks later they were engaged, and at least one member of the family finally made it back to England.
But yeah, many US families have a history of hostility to England. Same is true in Australia. The surprising thing is not that there is occasional friction, but that generally we get on as well as we do.
My Mum was Irish. Her ancestor went over with William of Orange (Protestant, invited over to be King) to deal with James II's (Catholic, dethroned for that reason. People hated and mistrusted the Pope in particular and Catholics in general) attempt to reclaim the British throne with Irish support. He was awarded the estate of some Irish family in return for his service (don't know which), but it was taken off him when William was attempting to conciliate the Irish and said if they could prove they hadn't fought against him they could have their land back. My ancestor spent the rest of his life wandering round Ireland in poverty, writing plaintive letters to the King saying, "Why me?" and "Can I have another one, please?" :wah: He never did get another estate.
300 or so years later my Dad was on a Cricket tour to Ireland and met my Mum. Three weeks later they were engaged, and at least one member of the family finally made it back to England.
But yeah, many US families have a history of hostility to England. Same is true in Australia. The surprising thing is not that there is occasional friction, but that generally we get on as well as we do.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
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scholle-kid
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gmc;1127832 wrote: David milliband is foreign secretary-any court case involving a foreign government would bring his department in to it. Allegedly it is him who is trying to prevent the judges from speaking out and keep quiet about the refusal of the american govt to answer their questions. The judiciary is independent and he can't actually order them to keep quiet and clearly they are not convinced by his argument it is in the national interest.
Unlike you we do not elect an executive-the government is usually formed by the leader of the party with the largest number of seats the members of the cabinet coming from those elected to parliament. In theory the queen asks him to form her government in theory she can choose another but in practice she has no choice in the matter.
Parliament is the sovereign power, theoretically the PM is Primus inter pares, the first among equals in practice more and more power has been concentrated in the hands of the cabinet and latterly the prime minister. The chancellor is the next most powerful and if he is agin something the PM has a problem but he can remove him, gordon brown-now the PM was chancellor when tony was PM but was a powerful enough character tony had to watch his step. The present incumbent is a party hack that does what gordon tells him.
As I said parliament is sovereign-at any time they can exert their collective will and stop the govt cold if enough MP's object to a course of action, carry a vote of no confidence and force the government out of office. But our MP's seem to have forgotten the traditions of their illustrious forebears and kow tow all the time. The house of lords is an unelected chamber and bills can be slowed and altered there but when push comes to shove parliament can force legislation through if it really wants to- it acts as a check on the power of parliament but can't ultimately overrule it. New labour have been threatening to reform it as well as the court system mainly because both have acted to stop some of the sillier excesses of tony blair.
No wonder this David Miliband is watching his 'P's and Q's while talking to the media about the allegations of blackmail of the UK by the USA . He would be the one that was in the thick of any 'wrong' doings . involving Bush and Guantanamo Bay.
A few weeks ago I was reading about this when I got off into the 18th century by clicking links . But with out the links I understood what you explained. Thank you.
Unlike you we do not elect an executive-the government is usually formed by the leader of the party with the largest number of seats the members of the cabinet coming from those elected to parliament. In theory the queen asks him to form her government in theory she can choose another but in practice she has no choice in the matter.
Parliament is the sovereign power, theoretically the PM is Primus inter pares, the first among equals in practice more and more power has been concentrated in the hands of the cabinet and latterly the prime minister. The chancellor is the next most powerful and if he is agin something the PM has a problem but he can remove him, gordon brown-now the PM was chancellor when tony was PM but was a powerful enough character tony had to watch his step. The present incumbent is a party hack that does what gordon tells him.
As I said parliament is sovereign-at any time they can exert their collective will and stop the govt cold if enough MP's object to a course of action, carry a vote of no confidence and force the government out of office. But our MP's seem to have forgotten the traditions of their illustrious forebears and kow tow all the time. The house of lords is an unelected chamber and bills can be slowed and altered there but when push comes to shove parliament can force legislation through if it really wants to- it acts as a check on the power of parliament but can't ultimately overrule it. New labour have been threatening to reform it as well as the court system mainly because both have acted to stop some of the sillier excesses of tony blair.
No wonder this David Miliband is watching his 'P's and Q's while talking to the media about the allegations of blackmail of the UK by the USA . He would be the one that was in the thick of any 'wrong' doings . involving Bush and Guantanamo Bay.
A few weeks ago I was reading about this when I got off into the 18th century by clicking links . But with out the links I understood what you explained. Thank you.
There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.
this is torture
scholle-kid;1127869 wrote: No wonder this David Miliband is watching his 'P's and Q's while talking to the media about the allegations of blackmail of the UK by the USA . He would be the one that was in the thick of any 'wrong' doings . involving Bush and Guantanamo Bay.
A few weeks ago I was reading about this when I got off into the 18th century by clicking links . But with out the links I understood what you explained. Thank you.
acrtually he wasn't foreign secretary at he time. The one who was resigned over the invasion of iraq
BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Cook's resignation speech
Don't think of it in terms of an elected president choosing his cabinet although tony blair and to a lesser extent gordon brown carry on as if they were. He or any of his cabinet can lose their seats in the houses of parliament, intheory all the cabinet should be sitting MP's. In a british context too powerful a prime minister is a bad thing. If enough MP's oppose something it doesn't matter what the PM wants, he can be forced out of ofice, if he were to lose the leadership of his party he would also cease to be Prime minister. Tony and gordon rigged things so there cannot be a real challenge to their leadership and that's also why the labour party will cease to exist as a viable political party. The members are leaving in droves.
A few weeks ago I was reading about this when I got off into the 18th century by clicking links . But with out the links I understood what you explained. Thank you.
acrtually he wasn't foreign secretary at he time. The one who was resigned over the invasion of iraq
BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Cook's resignation speech
Don't think of it in terms of an elected president choosing his cabinet although tony blair and to a lesser extent gordon brown carry on as if they were. He or any of his cabinet can lose their seats in the houses of parliament, intheory all the cabinet should be sitting MP's. In a british context too powerful a prime minister is a bad thing. If enough MP's oppose something it doesn't matter what the PM wants, he can be forced out of ofice, if he were to lose the leadership of his party he would also cease to be Prime minister. Tony and gordon rigged things so there cannot be a real challenge to their leadership and that's also why the labour party will cease to exist as a viable political party. The members are leaving in droves.
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Oscar Namechange
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this is torture
gmc;1130721 wrote: acrtually he wasn't foreign secretary at he time. The one who was resigned over the invasion of iraq
BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Cook's resignation speech
Don't think of it in terms of an elected president choosing his cabinet although tony blair and to a lesser extent gordon brown carry on as if they were. He or any of his cabinet can lose their seats in the houses of parliament, intheory all the cabinet should be sitting MP's. In a british context too powerful a prime minister is a bad thing. If enough MP's oppose something it doesn't matter what the PM wants, he can be forced out of ofice, if he were to lose the leadership of his party he would also cease to be Prime minister. Tony and gordon rigged things so there cannot be a real challenge to their leadership and that's also why the labour party will cease to exist as a viable political party. The members are leaving in droves.
I don't think so.
BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Cook's resignation speech
Don't think of it in terms of an elected president choosing his cabinet although tony blair and to a lesser extent gordon brown carry on as if they were. He or any of his cabinet can lose their seats in the houses of parliament, intheory all the cabinet should be sitting MP's. In a british context too powerful a prime minister is a bad thing. If enough MP's oppose something it doesn't matter what the PM wants, he can be forced out of ofice, if he were to lose the leadership of his party he would also cease to be Prime minister. Tony and gordon rigged things so there cannot be a real challenge to their leadership and that's also why the labour party will cease to exist as a viable political party. The members are leaving in droves.
I don't think so.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Oscar Namechange
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scholle-kid;1127779 wrote: okay, you opened me the door, is David Miliband the 'spokesman' from the Prime Minsters office? And is #10 the prime minster ? what is the PM name? and why would the 2 judges say they had been 'forced to keep secrets but now they are coming to the media with these same secrets ?
Is it because Bush jr. is back home in Texas ( thank goodness) , why is whatever was forceing them to keep quite no longer an issue ? Don't get me wrong I am not surprized by the alleged torture or the allegation of blackmail of the UK by the USA . and if it turns out that our side did it and your side hid it well that won't surprize me either. Sorry for all the questions , but you did say I could ask.
This is how British politics work. Tony Blair (former Prime Minister), Gordon Brown (Prime Minister and man responsible for booting out the lying Blair) and Davis Cameron, the poor deluded fool who is leader of the oppossition who thinks he can win the next election and get Gordon brown out of No 10.
YouTube - should I stay or should I go Rx2008
The Prime Minister Gordon Brown is the sexy MF in the pink tie.
Is it because Bush jr. is back home in Texas ( thank goodness) , why is whatever was forceing them to keep quite no longer an issue ? Don't get me wrong I am not surprized by the alleged torture or the allegation of blackmail of the UK by the USA . and if it turns out that our side did it and your side hid it well that won't surprize me either. Sorry for all the questions , but you did say I could ask.
This is how British politics work. Tony Blair (former Prime Minister), Gordon Brown (Prime Minister and man responsible for booting out the lying Blair) and Davis Cameron, the poor deluded fool who is leader of the oppossition who thinks he can win the next election and get Gordon brown out of No 10.
YouTube - should I stay or should I go Rx2008
The Prime Minister Gordon Brown is the sexy MF in the pink tie.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Oscar Namechange
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this is torture
gmc..... I can't find the link but hasn't the foriegn Office told Obama 'No' to detainee's being taken by the UK?
LONDON -- Prime Minister Gordon Brown says the U.S. has not asked Britain to accept Guantanamo Bay detainees if the camp for terrorist suspects is closed.
U.S. President-elect Barack Obama has pledged to shut Guantanamo. Several European nations have said they are considering taking inmates who cannot be returned to their own countries because of the risk of persecution.
Former U.K. Attorney-General Peter Goldsmith said last week that Britain should be prepared to take in detainees if it helps the U.S. shut the camp.
Brown said Sunday that Britain supported the closure of Guantanamo but had not yet been asked to accept inmates.
Some 250 detainees remain at the U.S.-run camp in Cuba. Australia says it has been asked to accept detainees and declined.
LONDON -- Prime Minister Gordon Brown says the U.S. has not asked Britain to accept Guantanamo Bay detainees if the camp for terrorist suspects is closed.
U.S. President-elect Barack Obama has pledged to shut Guantanamo. Several European nations have said they are considering taking inmates who cannot be returned to their own countries because of the risk of persecution.
Former U.K. Attorney-General Peter Goldsmith said last week that Britain should be prepared to take in detainees if it helps the U.S. shut the camp.
Brown said Sunday that Britain supported the closure of Guantanamo but had not yet been asked to accept inmates.
Some 250 detainees remain at the U.S.-run camp in Cuba. Australia says it has been asked to accept detainees and declined.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
this is torture
oscar;1131049 wrote: ....how British politics work. Tony Blair (former Prime Minister),
and, pompous, smug war-criminal.
oscar;1131049 wrote: Gordon Brown (Prime Minister and man responsible for booting out the lying Blair)
also responsible for a fair amount of the lying himself.........
oscar;1131049 wrote: and Davis (David, actually) Cameron, the poor deluded fool who is leader of the oppossition who thinks he can win the next election and get Gordon brown out of No 10.
Agreed, he is deluded, but not about that. Blair and Brown between them have destroyed the Labour (democrats in American) party for a generation.
and, pompous, smug war-criminal.
oscar;1131049 wrote: Gordon Brown (Prime Minister and man responsible for booting out the lying Blair)
also responsible for a fair amount of the lying himself.........
oscar;1131049 wrote: and Davis (David, actually) Cameron, the poor deluded fool who is leader of the oppossition who thinks he can win the next election and get Gordon brown out of No 10.
Agreed, he is deluded, but not about that. Blair and Brown between them have destroyed the Labour (democrats in American) party for a generation.
An ye harm none, do what ye will....
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Chookie;1131119 wrote: and, pompous, smug war-criminal.
also responsible for a fair amount of the lying himself.........
Agreed, he is deluded, but not about that. Blair and Brown between them have destroyed the Labour (democrats in American) party for a generation.
First sentence..... agreed whole-heartedly.
Second sentence....... total denial :wah:
Third sentence........ Under Brown, i think we are seeing the Labour Right emerge again. :yh_dance:yh_dance:yh_dance:yh_dance:yh_dance
also responsible for a fair amount of the lying himself.........
Agreed, he is deluded, but not about that. Blair and Brown between them have destroyed the Labour (democrats in American) party for a generation.
First sentence..... agreed whole-heartedly.
Second sentence....... total denial :wah:
Third sentence........ Under Brown, i think we are seeing the Labour Right emerge again. :yh_dance:yh_dance:yh_dance:yh_dance:yh_dance
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon