Dutch MP Banned from Britain

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:26 am

Tomorrow a Dutch MP (who has been banned from traveling to Britain to show an anti-Islamic movie he made to a House of Lords meeting) will be turning up at Heathrow Airport anyway.

I wonder are they going to arrest him, and on what grounds? Or maybe New Labour will just put a Fatwah on him.

Its funny isn't it? If he had made a negative movie about Opus Dei, or Israel, or Haliburton, or McDonalds, or George Bush he would probably get a BAFTA, but he makes an uncomfortable documentary about Islam and he can't even enter the country, (despite being an EU citizen and a Dutch MP).

Interesting times.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:15 am

A few more beheadings will have to occur before folks might wake and realize catering to one religion isn't a great idea.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:37 am

Galbally;1132298 wrote: Tomorrow a Dutch MP (who has been banned from traveling to Britain to show an anti-Islamic movie he made to a House of Lords meeting) will be turning up at Heathrow Airport anyway.

I wonder are they going to arrest him, and on what grounds? Or maybe New Labour will just put a Fatwah on him.

Its funny isn't it? If he had made a negative movie about Opus Dei, or Israel, or Haliburton, or McDonalds, or George Bush he would probably get a BAFTA, but he makes an uncomfortable documentary about Islam and he can't even enter the country, (despite being an EU citizen and Dutch MP).

Interesting times.

I am not at all surprised he is banned. Remember, we are a multi-national country with a very large Islamic community. There is no difference between his movie and the hate preachings by clerics such as Abu Hamza.

I can't see the difference between muslim hate preachers in this country and him who wants to stir up anti-Islamic hate.

Britain decided to go down the route of immigration and we have to respect the cultures that live here many as UK citizens.

Good....... keep him out for good. I'm sure even our inept plods will be able to pin a charge on him.

It's nothing to do with nooooo Labour... It's respecting the fact that we are multi-national.

If it was an anti-French movie...... they'd barbeque him alive on the steps of the town hall.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:54 am

oscar;1132340 wrote: I am not at all surprised he is banned. Remember, we are a multi-national country with a very large Islamic community. There is no difference between his movie and the hate preachings by clerics such as Abu Hamza.

I can't see the difference between muslim hate preachers in this country and him who wants to stir up anti-Islamic hate.

Britain decided to go down the route of immigration and we have to respect the cultures that live here many as UK citizens.

Good....... keep him out for good. I'm sure even our inept plods will be able to pin a charge on him.

It's nothing to do with nooooo Labour... It's respecting the fact that we are multi-national.

If it was an anti-French movie...... they'd barbeque him alive on the steps of the town hall.

G'way out of that Oscar, if it was an anti-French movie he would get an Oscar and a BAFTA, if this was about any other religion your government wouldn't bat an eyelid and you know it.

You're implicitly giving up your British right to free speech because your afraid of radical Islam and the social repercussions of challenging the cosy liberal consensus that there is no problem with the radicalization of Muslims across the world by a doctrine that espouses hate and violence, that's what's happening.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:21 pm

Galbally;1132344 wrote: G'way out of that Oscar, if it was an anti-French movie he would get an Oscar and a BAFTA, if this was about any other religion your government wouldn't bat an eyelid and you know it.

You're implicitly giving up your British right to free speech because your afraid of radical Islam and the social repercussions of challenging the cosy liberal consensus that there is no problem with the radicalization of Muslims across the world by a doctrine that espouses hate and violence, that's what's happening.

That's Bollocks. We do have freedom of speech, yes but not when it's likely to incite problems with a muslim community as large as ours.

Would you be so quick to defend him if he were entering the States with an anti-Irish movie? Or an anti-Jewish movie. Our government would oppose both of those examples as most know they would.

It's nothing to do either with challenging the cosy liberal consensus or fear of radicalisation of muslims. We have muslims and we have radicals. The radicals have and still are plotting to bring death and destruction to the West and Britain anyway.

As i said before..... you can not have one law for hate preacher clerics and another for him.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:26 pm

Sheryl;1132325 wrote: A few more beheadings will have to occur before folks might wake and realize catering to one religion isn't a great idea.

Our country and governments decided to accept mass immigration. Now, many in Britain are against it.... I'm not for too many reasons to bore you with here.

The fact is, we are a multi-national country not exclusively British or English (there is a diffference). What ever the fors and againsts... the fact is, they are here. Most are 2nd generation and British citizens and as British citizens our goverment has a duty to defend them from hate preachers such as this Belgian man.

It is no different from him coming into the States with anti-Hispanic movie's.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:01 pm

oscar;1132351 wrote: That's Bollocks. We do have freedom of speech, yes but not when it's likely to incite problems with a muslim community as large as ours.

Would you be so quick to defend him if he were entering the States with an anti-Irish movie? Or an anti-Jewish movie. Our government would oppose both of those examples as most know they would.

It's nothing to do either with challenging the cosy liberal consensus or fear of radicalisation of muslims. We have muslims and we have radicals. The radicals have and still are plotting to bring death and destruction to the West and Britain anyway.

As i said before..... you can not have one law for hate preacher clerics and another for him.

Right, but despite the fact that the largest religious minority in Britain are Catholics, Ian Paisley was allowed to say that the Pope was an anti-christ for 40 years, and that the Catholic church was the whore of babylon, and that all Catholics in the world are in on a Satan cult, and he was allowed to run for Parliament, become a UK MEP, and eventually became the First Minister of Northern Ireland? And this Dutch guy can't even step on British soil?

Do me a favour.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:04 pm

Galbally;1132298 wrote: Tomorrow a Dutch MP (who has been banned from traveling to Britain to show an anti-Islamic movie he made to a House of Lords meeting) will be turning up at Heathrow Airport anyway.

I wonder are they going to arrest him, and on what grounds? Or maybe New Labour will just put a Fatwah on him.

Its funny isn't it? If he had made a negative movie about Opus Dei, or Israel, or Haliburton, or McDonalds, or George Bush he would probably get a BAFTA, but he makes an uncomfortable documentary about Islam and he can't even enter the country, (despite being an EU citizen and a Dutch MP).

Interesting times.

I haven't seem his movie and have no idea of the content but I find myself depressed to be in agreement with a UKIP msp on the matter.

Religion is fair game no matter which one it is

Right, but despite the fact that the largest religious minority in Britain are Catholics, Ian Paisley was allowed to say that the Pope was an anti-christ for 40 years, and that the Catholic church was the whore of babylon, and that all Catholics in the world are in on a Satan cult, and he was allowed to run for Parliament, become a UK MEP, and eventually became the First Minister of Northern Ireland? And this Dutch guy can't even step on British soil?

I know a few orangemen that could give you good reasons why he was right.

:Dhatred has it's own frightening logic.

A muslim pupil at my wife's school was asked-in all seriousness- if she was a catholic muslim or a protestant muslim.

It's ridiculous that in the 21st century we still have conflict caused by religious fanatics.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:15 pm

Galbally;1132399 wrote: Right, but despite the fact that the largest religious minority in Britain are Catholics, Ian Paisley was allowed to say that the Pope was an anti-christ for 40 years, and that the Catholic church was the whore of babylon, and that all Catholics in the world are in on a Satan cult, and he was allowed to run for Parliament, become a UK MEP, and eventually became the First Minister of Northern Ireland? And this Dutch guy can't even step on British soil?

Do me a favour.
Your over-looking one huge fundemental fact here......... He's BELGIAN :p:p:p

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:18 pm

oscar;1132484 wrote: Your over-looking one huge fundemental fact here......... He's BELGIAN :p:p:p

Erm, I think you will find that he is actually Dutch.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:23 pm

gmc;1132476 wrote: I haven't seem his movie and have no idea of the content but I find myself depressed to be in agreement with a UKIP msp on the matter.

Religion is fair game no matter which one it is

I know a few orangemen that could give you good reasons why he was right.

:Dhatred has it's own frightening logic.

A muslim pupil at my wife's school was asked-in all seriousness- if she was a catholic muslim or a protestant muslim.

It's ridiculous that in the 21st century we still have conflict caused by religious fanatics.

The issue is not about religion, its about being allowed to say what you think, this pandering to PC nonsense about Islam for fear of offending "religious sensibilities" is becoming dangerous. David Irving addressed the Oxford Union, Islamic Radicals are allowed to have Marches down past the Houses of Parliament, but this guy can't enter the country?

I probably wouldn't agree with Dutch guy either, but he is making a point, and he is not calling for anyone to be killed, or declaring a holy war on anyone, or anything like that, but he is simply not allowed to criticize Islamic fundamentalism and Islam in general in a harsh and vigorous manner and also set foot in Britain, why not?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:52 pm

Galbally;1132496 wrote: The issue is not about religion, its about being allowed to say what you think, this pandering to PC nonsense about Islam for fear of offending "religious sensibilities" is becoming dangerous. David Irving addressed the Oxford Union, Islamic Radicals are allowed to have Marches down past the Houses of Parliament, but this guy can't enter the country?

I probably wouldn't agree with Dutch guy either, but he is making a point, and he is not calling for anyone to be killed, or declaring a holy war on anyone, or anything like that, but he is simply not allowed to criticize Islamic fundamentalism and Islam in general in a harsh and vigorous manner and also set foot in Britain, why not?

If he were British, he would have his right to freedom of speech. He is not British yet he seeks to come into a country where there is a huge muslim community, most British subjects and critise Islam.

You didn't answer my question....... what if he tried to take an anti-Irish or anti Hispanic movie to the States?

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:38 pm

oscar;1132524 wrote: If he were British, he would have his right to freedom of speech. He is not British yet he seeks to come into a country where there is a huge muslim community, most British subjects and critise Islam.

You didn't answer my question....... what if he tried to take an anti-Irish or anti Hispanic movie to the States?

If there was an anti-Irish movie, or anti-whatever that I disagreed with I would argue the points made in the movie, vigorously no doubt, but unless someone is directly calling for someone to be killed or is inciting racial or religious hatred they should be allowed to speak.

Why can we not talk about Islam? Why is everyone so afraid? No on is afraid of talking about Buddism, or Iraq, or the Banks, or Vladmir Putin, or Black on Black violence, but not Islam. Is this because people who attack Islam tend to get killed?

He is an EU citizen, Britain is part of the EU, so he can speak and travel freely everywhere else in the EU, but his right to free access to enter and talk in an EU memberstate is being denied by the British Government, because his views are politically awkward?

These are the same people who have gagged their own judges from allowing British citizens to know whether a British Citizen was tortured because the CIA warned them not to allow it, the same government that allows its citizens to be extradicted to the USA with no due process and no reciprocal arrangement, and now also refuses to allow fellow EU citizens to speak their minds in Britain about Islamic terrorism.

I thought Britain was the bastion of democracy, and it was the rest of the EU that was the facist superstate, hmmmn, perhaps its not so. It seems there is a country where people are still allowed to hold contrary views to the political establishment consensus, even when it involves causing the predictable Islamic "outrage".

Its called Holland.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:48 pm

Galbally;1132573 wrote: If there was an anti-Irish movie, or anti-whatever that I disagreed with I would argue the points made in the movie, vigorously no doubt, but unless someone is directly calling for someone to be killed or is inciting racial or religious hatred they should be allowed to speak. Why can we not talk about Islam? Why is everyone so afraid? No on is afraid of talking about Buddism, or Iraq, or the Banks, or Vladmir Putin, or Black on Black violence, but not Islam.

He is an EU citizen, Britain is part of the EU, so he can speak and travel freely everywhere else in the EU, but his right to free access to enter and talk in an EU memberstate is being denied by the British Government, because his views are politically awkward?

These are the same people who have gagged their own judges from allowing British citizens to know whether a British Citizen was tortured because the CIA warned them not to allow it, the same government that allows its citizens to be extradicted to the USA with no due process and no reciprocal arrangement, and now also refuses to allow fellow EU citizens to speak their minds in Britain about Islamic terrorism.

I thought Britain was the bastion of democracy, and it was the rest of the EU that was the facist superstate, hmmmn, perhaps its not so. It seems there is a country where people are still allowed to hold contrary views to the political establishment consensus.

Its called Holland.

Do we know the content of the film? Is there a review? I can't see even Gordie Boy going to an extreme if there was not content likely to insult or incite. Do you have a link?

As for Holland....

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:52 pm

oscar;1132582 wrote: Do we know the content of the film? Is there a review? I can't see even Gordie Boy going to an extreme if there was not content likely to insult or incite. Do you have a link?

As for Holland....

I don't have a link, but I am sure we can find it in half an hour, as can anyone else in Britain, which is why the ban is even more pointless than it would have been in days gone by. I am not advocating what the guy is saying, maybe he is a facist twerp, but so what? If he is then it will be pretty obvious in about 3 minutes.

Holland is alright, they have windmills, and they know a good dam when the see one.

They also have a very ethnically diverse population by the way, and a lot of Muslim citizens. Probably a lot more (as a percentage of the population) than Britain.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:56 pm

Galbally;1132584 wrote: I don't have a link, but I am sure we can find it in half an hour, as can anyone else in Britain, which is why the ban is even more pointless than it would have been in days gone by. I am not advocating what the guy is saying, maybe he is a facist twerp, but so what? If he is then it will be pretty obvious in about 3 minutes.

Holland is alright, they have windmills, and they know a good dam when the see one.

They also have a very ethnically diverse population by the way, and a lot of Muslim citizens. Probably a lot more (as a percentage of the population) than Britain.

Is this him?

'I don't hate Muslims. I hate Islam,' says Holland's rising political star | World news | The Observer

If so, it says it all really.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:07 pm

oscar;1132591 wrote: Is this him?

'I don't hate Muslims. I hate Islam,' says Holland's rising political star | World news | The Observer

If so, it says it all really.

It says he has fairly extreme views about Islam as a religion, and about its growth in Christian Europe, its a shame that we require far right European politicians to say things (that more polite folk are a little to frightened to say in public) about certain aspects of Islamic culture and its incompatibility with our own secular values. Perhaps if we had more honest and open debates about our fears and worries that the spread of Islam in Europe is causing to native populations, then it wouldn't allow far right parties to use these issues to gain electoral seats.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:09 pm

Anyway, I am off to bed to read my Koran.

Inshallah. :wah:

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:13 pm

Galbally;1132608 wrote: Anyway, I am off to bed to read my Koran.

Inshallah. :wah: Shalom

wildhorses · Post by **wildhorses** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:31 am

oscar;1132340 wrote: I am not at all surprised he is banned. Remember, we are a multi-national country with a very large Islamic community. There is no difference between his movie and the hate preachings by clerics such as Abu Hamza.

I can't see the difference between muslim hate preachers in this country and him who wants to stir up anti-Islamic hate.

Britain decided to go down the route of immigration and we have to respect the cultures that live here many as UK citizens.

Good....... keep him out for good. I'm sure even our inept plods will be able to pin a charge on him.

It's nothing to do with nooooo Labour... It's respecting the fact that we are multi-national.

If it was an anti-French movie...... they'd barbeque him alive on the steps of the town hall.

To ban the Dutch MP is spineless. Britain is just afraid of riots my muslims

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:58 am

Looking through the eyes of history here........how many died in the crusades to force Islam out of Spain? My how the world changes!

How can ideas and beliefs change so much over the course of a couple of centuries or three?

Why go to war at all then, if the ideas and premise for such things change in a short 100 years or so?

America 1864.....Lincoln signs the 13th amendment freeing slaves, and declaring all men are created equal.

So far so good. Wonder if it will be white America enslaved in a couple hundred years by the hispanics?

Look whats happened since apartheid in Africa was ended.

The world is becoming a place of fuzzy borders. There are no distinct areas EXCEPT in the Middle East. A place where a Christian dare not tread. Why is that? Islam has spread everywhere else in the world, why cant the west spread there? Seems all they want of the west is it's money.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:46 am

Raven;1132970 wrote: Looking through the eyes of history here........how many died in the crusades to force Islam out of Spain? My how the world changes!

How can ideas and beliefs change so much over the course of a couple of centuries or three?

Why go to war at all then, if the ideas and premise for such things change in a short 100 years or so?

America 1864.....Lincoln signs the 13th amendment freeing slaves, and declaring all men are created equal.

So far so good. Wonder if it will be white America enslaved in a couple hundred years by the hispanics?

Look whats happened since apartheid in Africa was ended.

The world is becoming a place of fuzzy borders. There are no distinct areas EXCEPT in the Middle East. A place where a Christian dare not tread. Why is that? Islam has spread everywhere else in the world, why cant the west spread there? Seems all they want of the west is it's money.

Islam has always been there. It seems more in our face due to immigration. We have become multi-national countries, some-thing that didn't happen way back in time. It is simply a case of the world becoming more tolerant to others religions and cultures. Too many wars and crusades have been started from religious persecution.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:37 am

The film was shown anyway...in the House of Lords.

I have '2 minds' here. ....

1. let the guy in and lets have a healthy debate.

2. don't let the guy in as he appears to be a 'nasty piece of work'.

I often wonder if the Koran is misunderstood / mis-interpreted as is The Bible sometimes. The MP seems to have fixed his attention on one particular sentence....

BBC NEWS | Politics | Dutch MP refused entry to Britain

"Earlier this year, a Dutch court ordered prosecutors to put the MP on trial for inciting hatred and discrimination by making anti-Islamic statements. "

He talks about the right to 'free speech' but I think He's just after the publicity

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:28 am

Bez;1133640 wrote: The film was shown anyway...in the House of Lords.

I have '2 minds' here. ....

1. let the guy in and lets have a healthy debate.

2. don't let the guy in as he appears to be a 'nasty piece of work'.

I often wonder if the Koran is misunderstood / mis-interpreted as is The Bible sometimes. The MP seems to have fixed his attention on one particular sentence....

BBC NEWS | Politics | Dutch MP refused entry to Britain

"Earlier this year, a Dutch court ordered prosecutors to put the MP on trial for inciting hatred and discrimination by making anti-Islamic statements. "

He talks about the right to 'free speech' but I think He's just after the publicity

Do exactly the same job on the Bible as he's done on the Koran and then we can have the debate - without that is just bias and hatred.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:37 am

wildhorses;1132907 wrote: To ban the Dutch MP is spineless. Britain is just afraid of riots my muslims

Spineless??? On the contrary...... I am proud to have a PM and government who does not back down to the panderings of one fanatical anti-Islamic.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:41 am

Bez;1133640 wrote: The film was shown anyway...in the House of Lords.

I have '2 minds' here. ....

1. let the guy in and lets have a healthy debate.

2. don't let the guy in as he appears to be a 'nasty piece of work'.

I often wonder if the Koran is misunderstood / mis-interpreted as is The Bible sometimes. The MP seems to have fixed his attention on one particular sentence....

BBC NEWS | Politics | Dutch MP refused entry to Britain

"Earlier this year, a Dutch court ordered prosecutors to put the MP on trial for inciting hatred and discrimination by making anti-Islamic statements. "

He talks about the right to 'free speech' but I think He's just after the publicity

I shall be eating later tonight with my muslim pals and it will be interesting to get their views as they are citizens of this country. I have a feeling they won't actually care less as muslims are peace loving people.

I agree with your view about seeking publicity. Even after he was stopped, he insisted on getting on the plane, with many journalists.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:41 am

G#Gill;1133804 wrote: Today is the worst day of my family's life. It just happens to be the 13th, so what !

I just hate this world, what is the bloody point of living in it ? Yes I am well aware that others are a lot worse off than me, but that doesn't help.

What's up Gill?

Anything we can help with?

Or at least a shoulder to vent on :-6

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:42 am

G#Gill;1133804 wrote: Today is the worst day of my family's life. It just happens to be the 13th, so what !

I just hate this world, what is the bloody point of living in it ? Yes I am well aware that others are a lot worse off than me, but that doesn't help.

Oh Gill..... what's happened? Can anyone here help?