Did i just hear right?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:46 am

I have just caught a snippet of the lunchtime BBC news.

I wasn't in the room so i missed who said it.

Did i hear right??

A Israeli government spokesperson speaking of the elections said he wants all Arabs to swear their alliegence to Israel.

Richard Bell · Post by **Richard Bell** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:15 am

That would be Avigdor Lieberman of the Yisrael Beiteinu Party.

He's a candidate in the current national election campaign. He is not a member of the Israeli government.

He is a 50 year old Russian emigre who holds some radical viewpoints.

Tzipa Livni of Kadima and Binyamin Netanyahu of Likud are currently running neck-and-neck in the polls.

Lieberman is in third place, ahead of Ehud Barak of the Labour Party.

He may well hold the balance of power after the election, leaving him the "kingmaker" (or "queenmaker", in Livni's case) in a coalition government.

This BBC site spells out the positions the candidates and their parties have on the issues:

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Israeli election: Where they stand

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:37 am

Richard Bell;1131583 wrote: That would be Avigdor Lieberman of the Yisrael Beiteinu Party.

He's a candidate in the current national election campaign. He is not a member of the Israeli government.

He is a 50 year old Russian emigre who holds some radical viewpoints.

Tzipa Livni of Kadima and Binyamin Netanyahu of Likud are currently running neck-and-neck in the polls.

Lieberman is in third place, ahead of Ehud Barak of the Labour Party.

He may well hold the balance of power after the election, leaving him the "kingmaker" (or "queenmaker", in Livni's case) in a coalition government.

This BBC site spells out the positions the candidates and their parties have on the issues:

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Israeli election: Where they stand

Thanks Richard,

I've been trying to get my head around these elections and it's the names I can never remember. That was a great help.

What do you think of his statement? That all Arabs should swear their alliegence to Israel?

Post by **spot** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:36 pm

oscar;1131685 wrote: Thanks Richard,

I've been trying to get my head around these elections and it's the names I can never remember. That was a great help.

What do you think of his statement? That all Arabs should swear their alliegence to Israel?

That's all Israeli citizens who are Arab. Not, God forbid, the Palestinians.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:57 pm

spot;1131852 wrote: That's all Israeli citizens who are Arab. Not, God forbid, the Palestinians.

Thanks Spot. As i said, i was out the room and just caught a little of it. Is that not still a tad radical?

Is it not similar to asking our Muslim community to swear their alliegence to the Church of England for example?

What happened to multi-cultural societies in a free world?

Post by **spot** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:17 pm

oscar;1131857 wrote: Thanks Spot. As i said, i was out the room and just caught a little of it. Is that not still a tad radical?

Is it not similar to asking our Muslim community to swear their alliegence to the Church of England for example?

What happened to multi-cultural societies in a free world?

Oaths of allegiance to the country of which you're a citizen aren't uncommon.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:28 pm

spot;1131872 wrote: Oaths of allegiance to the country of which you're a citizen aren't uncommon.

I can imagine the hullabaloo if we tried it here.

Post by **spot** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:34 pm

oscar;1131878 wrote: I can imagine the hullabaloo if we tried it here.

We're British, it just wouldn't do. I'm not a citizen of any country, I'm Her Majesty's loyal subject, it would be ruined if I had to make that explicit before some tin-pot jobsworth.

Chookie · Post by **Chookie** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:41 pm

spot;1131880 wrote: We're British, it just wouldn't do.

Not all of us boyo..........

spot;1131880 wrote: I'm not a citizen of any country

I, on the other hand am.

spot;1131880 wrote: I'm Her Majesty's loyal subject,

I am subject to no-one. Anyone who thinks they are is deluding themselves. Granted, you poor Sassunach may believe that some accident of birth means you are, but up here in civilisation we know better.

Post by **spot** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:46 pm

Chookie;1131883 wrote: Not all of us boyo..........I carefully chose my word! Yes you are too. And the rest of it, unless you're in open rebellion like the '45 and we know what happened then - Scotsmen in droves became French and stayed that way.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:46 pm

spot;1131880 wrote: We're British, it just wouldn't do. I'm not a citizen of any country, I'm Her Majesty's loyal subject, it would be ruined if I had to make that explicit before some tin-pot jobsworth.

Having said that, my turkish pal was just recently awarded her British Citizenship and she asked Pete and i to be her witnesses. What a palaver?? The poor girl practiced her speech for weeks. She had to say 'I swear my alliegence to Queen Elizabeth the Second and all her heirs and successors'. It came out 'I swear my alligance to Queen Eleeeeeeeezabet and all her ears and suck seeders'.

Nothing to do with the thread but she was one of the better one's on the night.

Attached files

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:48 pm

spot;1131852 wrote: That's all Israeli citizens who are Arab. Not, God forbid, the Palestinians.

I thought Palistinians were Persian, not Arab. Isn't that why Iran and Egypt support them?

Post by **spot** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:50 pm

fuzzywuzzy;1131890 wrote: I thought Palistinians were Persian, not Arab. Isn't that why Iran and Egypt support them?

Perhaps you should ask a Palestinian.

Here's a definition for you: a Palestinian is a Muslim who lived in Palestine in 1948 or someone descended from one.

I think you'll find they call themselves Arabs.

Iran's on the border of Russia and Afghanistan. Ask Odie, she's good with maps.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:14 pm

spot;1131892 wrote: Perhaps you should ask a Palestinian.

Here's a definition for you: a Palestinian is a Muslim who lived in Palestine in 1948 or someone descended from one.

I think you'll find they call themselves Arabs.

Iran's on the border of Russia and Afghanistan. Ask Odie, she's good with maps.

no no no i know they're muslim ....but of Persian decent rather than coming from Arabic heritage. Some prince or king was on the TV explaining why they back up Palistine, he said "they are our Persian brothers". NOt Arabic, he also pointed out how America keeps calling them Arab and this is not true. *shrugs * I dunno it's confusing to me.

I don't understand . What difference does it make where the country is situated?

Post by **spot** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:20 pm

fuzzywuzzy;1131909 wrote: no no no i know they're muslim ....but of Persian decent rather than coming from Arabic heritage. Some prince or king was on the TV explaining why they back up Palistine, he said "they are our Persian brothers". NOt Arabic, he also pointed out how America keeps calling them Arab and this is not true. *shrugs * I dunno it's confusing to me.

I don't understand . What difference does it make where the country is situated?

It's plain gibberish. It makes no sense whatever.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:23 pm

Something you've been accused of many times before .................I almost feel proud to be put into the same catagory as yourself.

whatever mate,:rolleyes: I'm not in the mood.

Post by **spot** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:37 pm

fuzzywuzzy;1131918 wrote: Something you've been accused of many times before .................I almost feel proud to be put into the same catagory as yourself.

whatever mate,:rolleyes: I'm not in the mood.

How about if you apply logic or look it up? Either works.

Footnote 195 in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine# ... opulations, "High-resolution Y chromosome haplotypes of Israeli and Palestinian Arabs ..." is a sensible starting place. Note the lack of the word "Persian" or "Iranian". Note the presence of the word "Arab".

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:09 am

oscar;1131857 wrote: Thanks Spot. As i said, i was out the room and just caught a little of it. Is that not still a tad radical?

Is it not similar to asking our Muslim community to swear their alliegence to the Church of England for example?

What happened to multi-cultural societies in a free world?

No it would be the same as making all British citizens, regardless of their race or religion, swear allegiance to either the Crown, or the authority of Parliament. Quite normal actually in some countries, may well be something that will become common in England in the future.

Over here we, like British people, don't have to make oaths of allegiance to Ireland or to the Republic or anything like that, but if it came to it, I certainly would, as I am a loyal citizen of my country and quite proud of it. Not an issue to me.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:13 am

fuzzywuzzy;1131890 wrote: I thought Palistinians were Persian, not Arab. Isn't that why Iran and Egypt support them?

No, your thinking of Iranians, they are Persians.

Palestinians are Arabs, they are a semetic people, as are the Jews. Syrians, Jordanians, Egyptians, Lebanese, Saudi's, and most North Africans are also Arabs, with some other smallish minorities.

Iraq's are a mix of Arabs, Persians, and Kurds.

Turks are a Turkic people from Central Asia, they are not Arabs, though they are Muslims.

Iranians are Persians and are not Arabs, neither are Afganis or Pakistanis.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:03 pm

Galbally;1132059 wrote: No it would be the same as making all British citizens, regardless of their race or religion, swear allegiance to either the Crown, or the authority of Parliament. Quite normal actually in some countries, may well be something that will become common in England in the future.

Over here we, like British people, don't have to make oaths of allegiance to Ireland or to the Republic or anything like that, but if it came to it, I certainly would, as I am a loyal citizen of my country and quite proud of it. Not an issue to me.

I would have no problem in swearing my allegiance to the Queen or my Parliment but i think it's not right to ask a muslim say, to do it any more than i'd want to swear my allegiance to the Taliban should i ever want to live in Afghanistan.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:04 am

oscar;1132754 wrote: I would have no problem in swearing my allegiance to the Queen or my Parliment but i think it's not right to ask a muslim say, to do it any more than i'd want to swear my allegiance to the Taliban should i ever want to live in Afghanistan.

Why not? Islam is just another religion, like Methodism, or Coptic Christians, British Muslims are British, why could they not Swear Allegiance to the crown in a non-religious way?

If you can't swear allegiance to the Queen or Parliament on such fundamental grounds that it was against you core beliefs about something that is nothing to do with being British, why would you consider yourself "British" in the first place?

Your not asking them to swear allegiance to the Pope, or giving up the right to free speech, free association, or democracy.

Post by **spot** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:50 am

AussiePam;1132904 wrote: All new Australian citizens make the following pledge:The argument seems to be more one of whether born citizens should ever be obliged - or even invited - to take one. For someone changing their allegiance it seems reasonable.

Richard Bell · Post by **Richard Bell** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:41 am

Something that really annoys me is that anybody who takes out Canadian citizenship must swear allegiance to the British crown.

Same goes for all members of the Canadian armed forces. One member actually challenged this a couple of years ago.

I was born a Canadian citizen, so no oaths for me. I'd gladly swear allegiance to my country, but I'll be damned if I'll pledge loyalty to a foreign potentate.

Post by **spot** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:44 am

Richard Bell;1133214 wrote: Something that really annoys me is that anybody who takes out Canadian citizenship must swear alliegence to the British crown.

Same goes for all members of the Canadian armed forces. One member actually challenged this a couple of years ago.

I was born a Canadian citizen, so no oaths for me. I'd gladly swear alliegence to my country, but I'll be damned if I'll pledge loyalty to a foreign potentate.

You're completely mistaken. They swear allegiance to the Canadian crown. Queen Elizabeth is independently both Head of State of Canada and also Head of State of the UK. And, come to think of it, independently Head of State of another twenty or so countries too.

I bet, if you check, she's Commander in Chief of the Canadian Armed Forces as well.

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:15 pm

Richard - Liz II is Queen of Oz and Commander in Chief of our Armed Forces too. An embarrassing anachronism, no doubt to end with her reign.