Can you believe this! With all that space, two satelites have collided 500 miles above earth.
When reporters asked which satellite was at fault, this is the answer they received:
"they ran into each other. Nothing has the right of way up there. We don't have an air traffic controller in space. There is no universal way of knowing what's coming in your direction."
With this collision we now have more debris added to the current 18,000 pieces already circling the earth.
Wherever man goes, we leave a dirty footprint along the way. We even muck up space.
I can imagine God looking upon our space adventures and and saying " What in the h___ are they doing now!"
Washington Times - Satellite debris watched closely
U.S. And Russian Satellites Collide
U.S. And Russian Satellites Collide
"Out, damned spot! out, I say!"
- William Shakespeare, Macbeth, 5.1
U.S. And Russian Satellites Collide
Fascinating isn't it.
There is a lot of space up there, but most sattelites are actually within a fairly narrow bandwidth which is the best place for these things to be when orbiting the Earth.
I don't think we have actually had a incident like this before, it just goes to show why the idea of mounting weapons platforms in space (particularly Nuclear weapons) is actually a very risky thing to do.
I wonder how much both of these sattelites cost? Even more interestingly, if they were Russian and US spy sattelites is there any chance that one or the other deliberately rammed the other ? Probably not, there wouldn't be any way to guide one to the other, unless it was purposefully designed to be a ramming weapon, with guidance and thrust.
Still, not impossible by any means.
There is a lot of space up there, but most sattelites are actually within a fairly narrow bandwidth which is the best place for these things to be when orbiting the Earth.
I don't think we have actually had a incident like this before, it just goes to show why the idea of mounting weapons platforms in space (particularly Nuclear weapons) is actually a very risky thing to do.
I wonder how much both of these sattelites cost? Even more interestingly, if they were Russian and US spy sattelites is there any chance that one or the other deliberately rammed the other ? Probably not, there wouldn't be any way to guide one to the other, unless it was purposefully designed to be a ramming weapon, with guidance and thrust.
Still, not impossible by any means.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
U.S. And Russian Satellites Collide
Galbally;1133092 wrote: Fascinating isn't it.
There is a lot of space up there, but most sattelites are actually within a fairly narrow bandwidth which is the best place for these things to be when orbiting the Earth.
I don't think we have actually had a incident like this before, it just goes to show why the idea of mounting weapons platforms in space (particularly Nuclear weapons) is actually a very risky thing to do.
I wonder how much both of these sattelites cost? Even more interestingly, if they were Russian and US spy sattelites is there any chance that one or the other deliberately rammed the other ? Probably not, there wouldn't be any way to guide one to the other, unless it was purposefully designed to be a ramming weapon, with guidance and thrust.
Still, not impossible by any means.
Wouldn't they have sufficient thrust in their stabilisation systems used to adjust the orbital attitude to allow accurate photography to also adjust their course to a degree?
There is a lot of space up there, but most sattelites are actually within a fairly narrow bandwidth which is the best place for these things to be when orbiting the Earth.
I don't think we have actually had a incident like this before, it just goes to show why the idea of mounting weapons platforms in space (particularly Nuclear weapons) is actually a very risky thing to do.
I wonder how much both of these sattelites cost? Even more interestingly, if they were Russian and US spy sattelites is there any chance that one or the other deliberately rammed the other ? Probably not, there wouldn't be any way to guide one to the other, unless it was purposefully designed to be a ramming weapon, with guidance and thrust.
Still, not impossible by any means.
Wouldn't they have sufficient thrust in their stabilisation systems used to adjust the orbital attitude to allow accurate photography to also adjust their course to a degree?
U.S. And Russian Satellites Collide
Kindle;1133081 wrote: Can you believe this! With all that space, two satelites have collided 500 miles above earth. There's about 30 million satellite orbits a year, most of them at that height, half of them going one way round and half going the other if they're in polar orbit. A lot of them are in polar orbit. The others are all racing one way round the tropical belts and there's a hell of a lot of cross traffic with no traffic lights. Scoring a direct hit was guaranteed eventually. The big question is whether the extra 20,000 pieces of broken satellite at the same height are going to start a runaway sequence of destruction. At the moment it's unlikely but if one of them generates another 20,000 pieces in the next couple of months who knows, maybe it'll snowball.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
U.S. And Russian Satellites Collide
Bryn Mawr;1133370 wrote: Wouldn't they have sufficient thrust in their stabilisation systems used to adjust the orbital attitude to allow accurate photography to also adjust their course to a degree?
No, not really. It would be far too hit an miss, a shot in a million, unless you had specific and very sophisticated system that could track and locate and lock onto other satellites in orbit using some type of system, you'd have to know where your trying to point the thing in the first place, then you'd have to maneuver into position, and intercept the other satellite, thats a lot trickier than it sounds, and normal satellites just aren't designed to maneuver around like that or be used for that purpose.
Their capabilities are very proscribed, as there is such an engineering premium on minimizing weight and keeping everything as simple and as minimal as possible in these things for obvious reasons. Satellites are basically designed for one purpose, and 100 percent of the satellite will be dedicated to that purpose, as getting these things into space is so expensive and difficult that they are engineered almost to perfection for their tasks.
You would have to build a dedicated sort of "attack" satellite that had nothing other than engines, and a control and guidance system, with nothing else in it, even at that probably 80 to 90 percent of its weight would have to be fuel. I wouldn't know if its possible to actually successfully design such a system that would work, it sounds possible, but I don't know.
It was just a flight of fancy on my part, its just an accidental collision, its been expected for years that at some stage this would happen, I am sure it will probably happen again, as there are actually an awful lot of sattelites up there. Spots question is quite interesting though, in whether the debris from this collision could have a snowball effect and start taking out any satellites in nearby orbits, that would then create more debris and so on.
I hadn't considered that one, it would be a serious problem if that did occur as we rely on these things for a lot of stuff nowadays, and of course they are very, very expensive, take a long time to build and get up there, and also if the orbital paths are consequently full of debris, it makes the whole business of maintaining them intact that much more difficult.
No, not really. It would be far too hit an miss, a shot in a million, unless you had specific and very sophisticated system that could track and locate and lock onto other satellites in orbit using some type of system, you'd have to know where your trying to point the thing in the first place, then you'd have to maneuver into position, and intercept the other satellite, thats a lot trickier than it sounds, and normal satellites just aren't designed to maneuver around like that or be used for that purpose.
Their capabilities are very proscribed, as there is such an engineering premium on minimizing weight and keeping everything as simple and as minimal as possible in these things for obvious reasons. Satellites are basically designed for one purpose, and 100 percent of the satellite will be dedicated to that purpose, as getting these things into space is so expensive and difficult that they are engineered almost to perfection for their tasks.
You would have to build a dedicated sort of "attack" satellite that had nothing other than engines, and a control and guidance system, with nothing else in it, even at that probably 80 to 90 percent of its weight would have to be fuel. I wouldn't know if its possible to actually successfully design such a system that would work, it sounds possible, but I don't know.
It was just a flight of fancy on my part, its just an accidental collision, its been expected for years that at some stage this would happen, I am sure it will probably happen again, as there are actually an awful lot of sattelites up there. Spots question is quite interesting though, in whether the debris from this collision could have a snowball effect and start taking out any satellites in nearby orbits, that would then create more debris and so on.
I hadn't considered that one, it would be a serious problem if that did occur as we rely on these things for a lot of stuff nowadays, and of course they are very, very expensive, take a long time to build and get up there, and also if the orbital paths are consequently full of debris, it makes the whole business of maintaining them intact that much more difficult.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
-
chonsigirl
- Posts: 33633
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:28 am
U.S. And Russian Satellites Collide
I wonder if they were insured...................
U.S. And Russian Satellites Collide
chonsigirl;1133425 wrote: I wonder if they were insured...................
Good question.
I hope it wasn't with AIG. :yh_rotfl
Good question.
I hope it wasn't with AIG. :yh_rotfl
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
U.S. And Russian Satellites Collide
Galbally;1133421 wrote: No, not really. It would be far too hit an miss, a shot in a million, unless you had specific and very sophisticated system that could track and locate and lock onto other satellites in orbit using some type of system, you'd have to know where your trying to point the thing in the first place, then you'd have to maneuver into position, and intercept the other satellite, thats a lot trickier than it sounds, and normal satellites just aren't designed to maneuver around like that or be used for that purpose.
Their capabilities are very proscribed, as there is such an engineering premium on minimizing weight and keeping everything as simple and as minimal as possible in these things for obvious reasons. Satellites are basically designed for one purpose, and 100 percent of the satellite will be dedicated to that purpose, as getting these things into space is so expensive and difficult that they are engineered almost to perfection for their tasks.
You would have to build a dedicated sort of "attack" satellite that had nothing other than engines, and a control and guidance system, with nothing else in it, even at that probably 80 to 90 percent of its weight would have to be fuel. I wouldn't know if its possible to actually successfully design such a system that would work, it sounds possible, but I don't know.
It was just a flight of fancy on my part, its just an accidental collision, its been expected for years that at some stage this would happen, I am sure it will probably happen again, as there are actually an awful lot of sattelites up there. Spots question is quite interesting though, in whether the debris from this collision could have a snowball effect and start taking out any satellites in nearby orbits, that would then create more debris and so on.
I hadn't considered that one, it would be a serious problem if that did occur as we rely on these things for a lot of stuff nowadays, and of course they are very, very expensive, take a long time to build and get up there, and also if the orbital paths are consequently full of debris, it makes the whole business of maintaining them intact that much more difficult.
The satellite would not have the detection and decision capability - that would be done from the ground and would have to be started many orbits in advance in order to reduce the fuel required to match orbits but I wouldn't think it was beyond possibility.
Their capabilities are very proscribed, as there is such an engineering premium on minimizing weight and keeping everything as simple and as minimal as possible in these things for obvious reasons. Satellites are basically designed for one purpose, and 100 percent of the satellite will be dedicated to that purpose, as getting these things into space is so expensive and difficult that they are engineered almost to perfection for their tasks.
You would have to build a dedicated sort of "attack" satellite that had nothing other than engines, and a control and guidance system, with nothing else in it, even at that probably 80 to 90 percent of its weight would have to be fuel. I wouldn't know if its possible to actually successfully design such a system that would work, it sounds possible, but I don't know.
It was just a flight of fancy on my part, its just an accidental collision, its been expected for years that at some stage this would happen, I am sure it will probably happen again, as there are actually an awful lot of sattelites up there. Spots question is quite interesting though, in whether the debris from this collision could have a snowball effect and start taking out any satellites in nearby orbits, that would then create more debris and so on.
I hadn't considered that one, it would be a serious problem if that did occur as we rely on these things for a lot of stuff nowadays, and of course they are very, very expensive, take a long time to build and get up there, and also if the orbital paths are consequently full of debris, it makes the whole business of maintaining them intact that much more difficult.
The satellite would not have the detection and decision capability - that would be done from the ground and would have to be started many orbits in advance in order to reduce the fuel required to match orbits but I wouldn't think it was beyond possibility.
U.S. And Russian Satellites Collide
Scrat;1133458 wrote: This is what I got from the Russian media. The Russian sattelite was dead, just a piece of junk flying around out in orbit. Apparently it was not in the place it was supposed to be either so the Russians think that it was hit by something that deflected it into the American sattelites path. They have no proof or records as that particular sattelite has not been tracked by them for years.
The debris cloud is now expanding over Siberia, some of it will come to earth some will go out into space and some can cause more problems.
It must be getting to be a real junkyard up there.
Hmmn, look like spot might be right about the debris issue. I wonder how could you deal with lots of little bits of space debris, would it be somehow possible to devise a craft to "sweep" the space lanes free of space junk.
Thats an interesting aerospace challenge is it not?
The debris cloud is now expanding over Siberia, some of it will come to earth some will go out into space and some can cause more problems.
It must be getting to be a real junkyard up there.
Hmmn, look like spot might be right about the debris issue. I wonder how could you deal with lots of little bits of space debris, would it be somehow possible to devise a craft to "sweep" the space lanes free of space junk.
Thats an interesting aerospace challenge is it not?
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
U.S. And Russian Satellites Collide
Galbally;1133605 wrote: Hmmn, look like spot might be right about the debris issue. I wonder how could you deal with lots of little bits of space debris, would it be somehow possible to devise a craft to "sweep" the space lanes free of space junk.
Thats an interesting aerospace challenge is it not?
Oh my! Don't let our Congress hear of this suggestion. They'll fund it through our "stimulus" bill as creating a new job. A "green" job. :yh_rotfl
Thats an interesting aerospace challenge is it not?
Oh my! Don't let our Congress hear of this suggestion. They'll fund it through our "stimulus" bill as creating a new job. A "green" job. :yh_rotfl
"Out, damned spot! out, I say!"
- William Shakespeare, Macbeth, 5.1
U.S. And Russian Satellites Collide
Kindle;1133702 wrote: Oh my! Don't let our Congress hear of this suggestion. They'll fund it through our "stimulus" bill as creating a new job. A "green" job. :yh_rotfl
Well if it starts knocking your communications, TV, GPS, and military sattellites out of Orbit, you may well have to start thinking about solutions, or you might wake up one day and find that a lot of things you take for granted are not working anymore.
Well if it starts knocking your communications, TV, GPS, and military sattellites out of Orbit, you may well have to start thinking about solutions, or you might wake up one day and find that a lot of things you take for granted are not working anymore.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
-
Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
U.S. And Russian Satellites Collide
I'm beginning to wonder if we are in effect locking ourselves onto the planet. How long will it be before we stop sending up science missions because the failure rate due to collisions with junk makes them not cost effective?
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
U.S. And Russian Satellites Collide
Clodhopper;1133708 wrote: I'm beginning to wonder if we are in effect locking ourselves onto the planet. How long will it be before we stop sending up science missions because the failure rate due to collisions with junk makes them not cost effective?
Well to be honest, we are probably alright for the moment, I wouldn't worry overmuch about this stuff, its not like we don't have enough problems is it?
Well to be honest, we are probably alright for the moment, I wouldn't worry overmuch about this stuff, its not like we don't have enough problems is it?
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
-
Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
U.S. And Russian Satellites Collide
Och no! I'm not really worrying about this - 'twas but a passing thought.
aBut I am just thinking of posting a really scary thread if I can get my head together enough...
aBut I am just thinking of posting a really scary thread if I can get my head together enough...
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
U.S. And Russian Satellites Collide
Kindle;1133081 wrote: Can you believe this! With all that space, two satelites have collided 500 miles above earth.
When reporters asked which satellite was at fault, this is the answer they received:
"they ran into each other. Nothing has the right of way up there. We don't have an air traffic controller in space. There is no universal way of knowing what's coming in your direction."
With this collision we now have more debris added to the current 18,000 pieces already circling the earth.
Wherever man goes, we leave a dirty footprint along the way. We even muck up space.
I can imagine God looking upon our space adventures and and saying " What in the h___ are they doing now!"
Washington Times - Satellite debris watched closely
:wah: they probably wanted to blame America or Bush or whatever....:p
When reporters asked which satellite was at fault, this is the answer they received:
"they ran into each other. Nothing has the right of way up there. We don't have an air traffic controller in space. There is no universal way of knowing what's coming in your direction."
With this collision we now have more debris added to the current 18,000 pieces already circling the earth.
Wherever man goes, we leave a dirty footprint along the way. We even muck up space.
I can imagine God looking upon our space adventures and and saying " What in the h___ are they doing now!"
Washington Times - Satellite debris watched closely
:wah: they probably wanted to blame America or Bush or whatever....:p
-
Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
U.S. And Russian Satellites Collide
they probably wanted to blame America or Bush or whatever....
I blame Bush for a great deal. But even I don't blame him for this one.
Er, on second thoughts - was he driving the American one????;)
I blame Bush for a great deal. But even I don't blame him for this one.
Er, on second thoughts - was he driving the American one????;)
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
U.S. And Russian Satellites Collide
sunny104;1133752 wrote: :wah: they probably wanted to blame America or Bush or whatever....:p
No, he's not around to blame no more, and we kinda like Obama, so we have to come up with someone new to blame for everything. I shall report back with likely candidates shortly.
I would imagine most of them will be bankers.
Oh and Gordon Brown. :yh_rotfl
No, he's not around to blame no more, and we kinda like Obama, so we have to come up with someone new to blame for everything. I shall report back with likely candidates shortly.
I would imagine most of them will be bankers.
Oh and Gordon Brown. :yh_rotfl
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
U.S. And Russian Satellites Collide
:yh_rotflClodhopper;1133760 wrote: I blame Bush for a great deal. But even I don't blame him for this one.
Er, on second thoughts - was he driving the American one????;)
Kindle raises one eye and smiles...........................
a slight chuckle escapes her lips.
Then, :yh_rotfl
Er, on second thoughts - was he driving the American one????;)
Kindle raises one eye and smiles...........................
a slight chuckle escapes her lips.
Then, :yh_rotfl
"Out, damned spot! out, I say!"
- William Shakespeare, Macbeth, 5.1
U.S. And Russian Satellites Collide
Scrat;1134111 wrote: US intelligence intercepted a strange signal just minutes before the collision eminating from the vodka cellar at Vladimirs Putins residence outside Moscow.
That was just Abba being played loud but the neighbours know not to complain.
That was just Abba being played loud but the neighbours know not to complain.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
U.S. And Russian Satellites Collide
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat
US intelligence intercepted a strange signal just minutes before the collision eminating from the vodka cellar at Vladimirs Putins residence outside Moscow.
Spot: That was just Abba being played loud but the neighbours know not to complain.
Naah. It's the sound of Boris Yeltsin refusing to come out.
Originally Posted by Scrat
US intelligence intercepted a strange signal just minutes before the collision eminating from the vodka cellar at Vladimirs Putins residence outside Moscow.
Spot: That was just Abba being played loud but the neighbours know not to complain.
Naah. It's the sound of Boris Yeltsin refusing to come out.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."