Boy of 13 is a Father.

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:03 am

I saw this Child on the news last night with his Baby and felt mixed emotions.What are your thoughts on this?

AFP: Boy becomes father at 13: report

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:13 am

He does'nt look above 9 year old himself!

Playtime for baby-faced 13-year-old dad Alfie Patten | The Sun |News

kazalala · Post by **kazalala** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:23 am

Omg i nearly died when i saw him!! he looks so young! wel he is so young, they both are

well worse things can happen, and that little girl is her now so i hope they look after her properly and get good support from their own parents.

Post by **spot** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:06 am

It would have been entirely unremarkable anywhere in England at any time at all up until some part of the 19th century. It would have been commonplace. They'd have their entry in the marriage register too. We did a bit of family history on FG a couple of years ago and the pair we were looking for who emigrated to Australia as a couple around 1840 turned out to be younger than those two, I think from memory they were 12 and 14.

Oh - all this DPP stuff about "we decided not to prosecute because it's not in anyone's interests" coyly fails to mention that if the law were to prosecute either of them it could only be the girl.

kazalala · Post by **kazalala** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:09 am

spot;1135162 wrote: It would have been entirely unremarkable anywhere in England at any time at all up until some part of the 19th century. It would have been commonplace. They'd have their entry in the marriage register too. We did a bit of family history on FG a couple of years ago and the pair we were looking for who emigrated to Australia as a couple around 1840 turned out to be younger than those two, I think from memory they were 12 and 14.

crikey:-2

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:27 am

I read about him a few days ago-his father's comments were quite interesting. He let the boy have a sleep over at the girls house....now he thinks he should give the boy the birds and the bees talk......:rolleyes:

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:44 am

Its one of those classic "look at the state of society" type articles init?

But, these things have always happened really, teenage sex is not something that's very new.

Though obviously there have been general trends in society that have resulted in increases in teenage pregancies, and single parent familes and all of that in recent times; how you think about that stuff kinda depends on your outlook I suppose.

My own would be that strong family structures tend to make for strong societies, but individual cases don't necessarily have any implication of that general point. No more than one weather event proves climate change.

I suppose by modern standards its an unusual case as he was only 12 when he fathered the child, well in Britain anyway, god help him when it comes to having to sell his Wii on eBay to pay for the nappies.

His dad is giving him a birds and bees talk. :wah:

Erm, bit late dad.

Kindle · Post by **Kindle** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:47 am

Being responsible for the needs of a baby is no small task for an adult, let alone two children. Let's hope the parents of these 'children' are able and willing to guide and support all three of these 'kids'.

Post by **spot** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:55 am

Kindle;1135173 wrote: Being responsible for the needs of a baby is no small task for an adult, let alone two children. Let's hope the parents of these 'children' are able and willing to guide and support all three of these 'kids'.

It really is very difficult to screw up raising a child, all you need as an essential is to like the little wretch. Nothing else comes close to being that important though access to good healthcare helps.

Kindle · Post by **Kindle** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:11 am

spot;1135175 wrote: It really is very difficult to screw up raising a child, all you need as an essential is to like the little wretch. Nothing else comes close to being that important though access to good healthcare helps.

Yes, love is a great motivator, but love don't pay the bills.

Post by **spot** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:31 am

Kindle;1135178 wrote: Yes, love is a great motivator, but love don't pay the bills.

Americans are obsessed with money and possessions, have you ever noticed that?

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:48 am

saw this on the new last night.........shocking!

Post by **spot** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:53 am

Odie;1135197 wrote: saw this on the new last night.........shocking!

Why shocking, Odie?

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:54 am

spot;1135203 wrote: Why shocking, Odie?

his age, this is insane, he is a baby himself.

Post by **spot** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:55 am

Odie;1135204 wrote: his age, this is insane, he is a baby himself.

Do you know, I don't think he could successfully shaft his girlfriend if that were true.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:01 am

spot;1135206 wrote: Do you know, I don't think he could successfully shaft his girlfriend if that were true.

oh I think he can, memories of me when I was 12........but not intercourse.

Post by **spot** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:04 am

Odie;1135210 wrote: oh I think he can, memories of me when I was 12........but not intercourse.

I don't see the point of words at all if they carry such vague meanings. I challenged "insane", it obviously isn't insane. I challenged "baby", they're neither of them babies. What's wrong with discussing matters using a common language?

Mustang · Post by **Mustang** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:44 am

spot;1135188 wrote: Americans are obsessed with money and possessions, have you ever noticed that?

No, I haven't noticed that it's just Americans Spot.

Any nationality that doesn't have money can't afford possessions.

Without financial help, this new family will find it difficult to survive on their own. At 13, he's not capable of earning an income and supporting a family.

Post by **spot** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:21 am

Mustang;1135235 wrote: Without financial help, this new family will find it difficult to survive on their own. At 13, he's not capable of earning an income and supporting a family.

Whose responsibility is it that he's prohibited by law from earning an income? Is it anything to do with government having passed laws forbidding any employer from taking him on?

So, if he's prohibited by law from working and earning an income, does the state not carry a duty to help him support his family? Saying no generates a dochotomy. He has a child to look after. He's forbidden by law from earning. Is the government going to confiscate the child? Of course not. Will it be allowed to starve? of course not.

So why's it relevant that "without financial help, this new family will find it difficult to survive on their own"?

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:39 am

spot;1135188 wrote: Americans are obsessed with money and possessions, have you ever noticed that?

Why do you feel that it's just Americans?

Post by **spot** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:42 am

Peg;1135288 wrote: Why do you feel that it's just Americans?

You're the second to assume I said that. I didn't. I generalized about Americans - do you dispute my generalization? - I said nothing about any other group.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:44 am

spot;1135292 wrote: You're the second to assume I said that. I didn't. I generalized about Americans - do you dispute my generalization? - I said nothing about any other group.

Perhaps because you singled out Americans and not people in general?

kayleneaussie · Post by **kayleneaussie** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:51 am

my thoughts on the subject.....they are both way too young......they will need the help from their parents.....

why......ever been up with a screaming baby all night....i am sure this pair havent, also whose going to pay for the upkeep of this baby

Post by **spot** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:53 am

Peg;1135294 wrote: Perhaps because you singled out Americans and not people in general?

I said nothing about any other group because only in the US, of all the rich countries, is there such an inadequate social welfare safety net to keep people from destitution. Therefore, in my opinion, far more Americans are obsessed about money (through fear) than in other rich countries. I'm generalizing, not discussing how these two would fare in the US (though I suspect "sex offender's register" might come into play since they're quite likely to be more than 24 months apart in age).

What I wrote was in response to the rather nauseating comment that "Yes, love is a great motivator, but love don't pay the bills", an archetypal American thought in the context of what I've written in the last paragraph. I'm delighted for the two parents, it's what happened, I'm confident they'll be fine and their child too, people are resilient. You'll notice that the girl's not being prosecuted by the police - we're fairly sensible about this sort of thing over here.

It's a rare event. I find it sad that people look at it primarily as a financial commitment, that merely demeans the person expressing the opinion.

Mustang · Post by **Mustang** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:59 am

spot;1135264 wrote: Whose responsibility is it that he's prohibited by law from earning an income? Is it anything to do with government having passed laws forbidding any employer from taking him on?

So, if he's prohibited by law from working and earning an income, does the state not carry a duty to help him support his family? Saying no generates a dochotomy. He has a child to look after. He's forbidden by law from earning. Is the government going to confiscate the child? Of course not. Will it be allowed to starve? of course not.

So why's it relevant that "without financial help, this new family will find it difficult to survive on their own"?

United States Department Of Labor Employment Standards Administration Fact Sheet No. ESA 91-3

Youths under 14 may work only if their jobs are exempt from the child

labor standards or not covered by the FLSA. Exempt work includes:

delivery of newspapers to consumers; performing in theatrical, motion

picture, or broadcast productions; and work in a business owned by

parents of the minor, except in manufacturing or hazardous

occupations.

So why's it relevant that "without financial help, this new family will find it difficult to survive on their own"?

It's relevant. Without finanical help, at 13, he has no way of providing on his own, for his family...shelter, food, clothing etc. Love alone, doesn't provide the necessities of life to survive. No, this boy cannot be self supportive.

Sure, we can speculate.... the State will most likely step in with aid, along with family and friends of the family. Child and youth services for his State, will probably also be involved to insure the child is properly cared for. No, the Government won't confiscate the child, but a State agency could.

Post by **spot** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:02 am

Mustang;1135316 wrote: No, this boy cannot be self supportive. I agree with you entirely. Without state interference he could be. That's why, in my opinion, since the state is responsible for his inability, it's also responsible for providing for his family. It's a matter of ethics.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:02 am

spot;1135304 wrote: I said nothing about any other group because only in the US, of all the rich countries, is there such an inadequate social welfare safety net to keep people from destitution. Therefore, in my opinion, far more Americans are obsessed about money (through fear) than in other rich countries. I'm generalizing, not discussing how these two would fare in the US (though I suspect "sex offender's register" might come into play since they're quite likely to be more than 24 months apart in age).

What I wrote was in response to the rather nauseating comment that "Yes, love is a great motivator, but love don't pay the bills", an archetypal American thought in the context of what I've written in the last paragraph. I'm delighted for the two parents, it's what happened, I'm confident they'll be fine and their child too, people are resilient. You'll notice that the girl's not being prosecuted by the police - we're fairly sensible about this sort of thing over here.

It's a rare event. I find it sad that people look at it primarily as a financial commitment, that merely demeans the person expressing the opinion.

As some of you know, I put a thread on a few weeks ago as my favourite nephew is about to be a dad at the age of 15. I was quite horrified on hearing the news as i had all the fears and opinions that most seem to have on this lad. If kids are sexually active at 13 years old or any age, short of locking them in the house 24/7 they are going to experiment.

I myself believe that 15 year olds becoming parents is far more common than we think, it just happens that this one has media attention.

As in the case of my nephew, i am pretty sure everything is going to be fine.

minks · Post by **minks** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:02 am

Mustang;1135316 wrote: United States Department Of Labor Employment Standards Administration Fact Sheet No. ESA 91-3

Youths under 14 may work only if their jobs are exempt from the child

labor standards or not covered by the FLSA. Exempt work includes:

delivery of newspapers to consumers; performing in theatrical, motion

picture, or broadcast productions; and work in a business owned by

parents of the minor, except in manufacturing or hazardous

occupations.

It's relevant. Without finanical help, at 13, he has no way of providing on his own, for his family...shelter, food, clothing etc. Love alone, doesn't provide the necessities of life to survive. No, this boy cannot be self supportive.

Sure, we can speculate.... the State will most likely step in with aid, along with family and friends of the family. Child and youth services for his State, will probably also be involved to insure the child is properly cared for. No, the Government won't confiscate the child, but a State agency could.

Good bloody think he did not father 8 babies hehehehe

Yes very similar laws apply up here too. As well what could a child of so young know about paying bills, and buying all the necessities etc? Here he could likely fall through the cracks and be forgotten completely by society, then where does that leave a child and a baby?

Not so an obsession with money, just a realistic view of facts.

Post by **spot** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:06 am

minks;1135325 wrote: As well what could a child of so young know about paying bills, and buying all the necessities etc? Here he could likely fall through the cracks and be forgotten completely by society, then where does that leave a child and a baby?

We did a bit of family history on FG a couple of years ago and the pair we were looking for who emigrated to Australia as a couple around 1840 turned out to be younger than those two, I think from memory they were 12 and 14. They were married and emigrating to Australia, they started a new life there, they raised a family, they were the member's ancestors.

What's changed is society, not any biological aspect of 12 or 14 year olds. If we bring them up incapable and refuse to allow them to earn a living wage then we've crippled them and they're society's responsibility in consequence.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:09 am

minks;1135325 wrote: Good bloody think he did not father 8 babies hehehehe

Yes very similar laws apply up here too. As well what could a child of so young know about paying bills, and buying all the necessities etc? Here he could likely fall through the cracks and be forgotten completely by society, then where does that leave a child and a baby?

Not so an obsession with money, just a realistic view of facts.

In this country we have a very good benifit system that will cushion them until he is able to earn a full-time wage. From what i can see, there is a supportive family around him as there is with my 15 year old nephew. With those two factors, they will be OK.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:12 am

spot;1135304 wrote: ...............What I wrote was in response to the rather nauseating comment that "Yes, love is a great motivator, but love don't pay the bills", an archetypal American thought in the context of what I've written in the last paragraph. .............

It's a rare event. I find it sad that people look at it primarily as a financial commitment, that merely demeans the person expressing the opinion.

Let's take look back into this thread and see if we can discover together, exactly when finances reared it's ugly fearful AMERICAN OBSESSED head, shall we?

I suppose by modern standards its an unusual case as he was only 12 when he fathered the child, well in Britain anyway, god help him when it comes to having to sell his Wii on eBay to pay for the nappies.

Post by **spot** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:16 am

flopstock;1135341 wrote: Let's take look back into this thread and see if we can discover together, exactly when finances reared it's ugly fearful AMERICAN OBSESSED head, shall we?

Kindle addressed me directly, I was answering her.

minks · Post by **minks** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:27 am

spot;1135332 wrote: We did a bit of family history on FG a couple of years ago and the pair we were looking for who emigrated to Australia as a couple around 1840 turned out to be younger than those two, I think from memory they were 12 and 14. They were married and emigrating to Australia, they started a new life there, they raised a family, they were the member's ancestors.

What's changed is society, not any biological aspect of 12 or 14 year olds. If we bring them up incapable and refuse to allow them to earn a living wage then we've crippled them and they're society's responsibility in consequence.

If we bring them up with lack of education that cripples them (hello birds and bees talk) Sure you can emmigrate to Australia, there are places there where it is liveable all year round without shelter, here one could not raise a baby on the streets, come winter they either freeze or end up in the homeless shelter... Shelter is Key here and our "system" fails to see that as a key factor. They could never affort a house, prices to rent or by are sky high...

Our food is sky high, here the cost of living is insanely high for no reason, and you think that makes us obsessed with money? Not obsessed we need it for the bare essentials, hardly an obsession.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:32 am

spot;1135352 wrote: Kindle addressed me directly, I was answering her.
Kindle commented on the financial aspects of the situation, after it had already been brought into the conversation by others in the thread, including yourself.

Your comment to Kindle with regards to access to good healthcare, is also a financial reference Spot.

Americans are obsessed with money and possessions, have you ever noticed that?

I'm so happy you've proven to everyone how wrong they were, now that there is a new administration... it wasn't ever america bashing... yeah, not much dear..:rolleyes:

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:33 am

minks;1135374 wrote: If we bring them up with lack of education that cripples them (hello birds and bees talk) Sure you can emmigrate to Australia, there are places there where it is liveable all year round without shelter, here one could not raise a baby on the streets, come winter they either freeze or end up in the homeless shelter... Shelter is Key here and our "system" fails to see that as a key factor. They could never affort a house, prices to rent or by are sky high...

Our food is sky high, here the cost of living is insanely high for no reason, and you think that makes us obsessed with money? Not obsessed we need it for the bare essentials, hardly an obsession.

I disagree about the lack of education re the birds and the bee's. I don't know for sure about the lad in the article but my own 15 yr old nephew had plenty of education. Infact, his girl was actually on the pill. I believe the pregnancy was more of an accident on her part but an accident that could happen to any adult woman equally.

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:37 am

Today another lad has come forward saying he thinks he is the Daddy, and theirs another lad who also thinks he could be the Daddy.

“There are at least five other boys that I know who were all sleeping with her around that time. They’re all now wondering, ‘Is it me?’

Richard Goodsell: I'm the real daddy, Alfie and I want a DNA test to prove it | News | News Of The World

minks · Post by **minks** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:47 am

Yes certainly accidents happen.... less would happen if children were educated. Making babies is not some kind of video game.

Well between this story, and "miz 8 babies" story I can't help but wonder what goes through parents heads who struggle for years trying to have babies and never get their wish.

Just seems so darn messed up IMO

Post by **spot** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:49 am

flopstock;1135380 wrote: Kindle commented on the financial aspects of the situation, after it had already been brought into the conversation by others in the thread, including yourself.

Your comment to Kindle with regards to access to good healthcare, is also a financial reference Spot.

I'm so happy you've proven to everyone how wrong they were, now that there is a new administration... it wasn't ever america bashing... yeah, not much dear..:rolleyes:

The US is at the start of a major depression, a universal welfare safety net simply doesn't exist, you're about to see millions of people sleeping rough as they get thrown out of their accommodation and you think having a new administration's going to suddenly magically mend it all? They've been in office now for nearly four weeks?

The failure of US welfare provisions goes back decades and in my opinion it's not possible at this late stage to put enough in place, the country's going to need to count burials before it finally suffers enough collective shock and shame and restructures away from upholding capitalist greed.for the few at the expense of poverty for the many.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:51 am

Chezzie;1135388 wrote: Today another lad has come forward saying he thinks he is the Daddy, and theirs another lad who also thinks he could be the Daddy.

Richard Goodsell: I'm the real daddy, Alfie and I want a DNA test to prove it | News | News Of The World

They'll be on Jeremy Kyle' soon.

Why are they slating the lad anyway in the press? What about the girl?

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:51 am

spot;1135402 wrote: The US is at the start of a major depression, a universal welfare safety net simply doesn't exist, you're about to see millions of people sleeping rough as they get thrown out of their accommodation and you think having a new administration's going to suddenly magically mend it all? They've been in office now for nearly four weeks?

The failure of US welfare provisions goes back decades and in my opinion it's not possible at this late stage to put enough in place, the country's going to need to count burials before it finally suffers enough collective shock and shame and restructures away from holing onto capitalist greed.for the few at the expense of poverty for the many.

This thread was created to talk about the boy being a dad at 13. We are not turning into another American thread. If you want to discuss the above, open a new thread for it.

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:54 am

oscar;1135404 wrote: They'll be on Jeremy Kyle' soon.

Why are they slating the lad anyway in the press? What about the girl?

As far as im aware he isnt being slated as such, just people are shocked at his babyface and yes we are still shocked when 12 year old boys get girls pregnant even if she was two years older than him when she conceived. They are both to blame, takes two to make a baby but it might not even be his now!

Post by **spot** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:54 am

Chezzie;1135405 wrote: This thread was created to talk about the boy being a dad at 13. We are not turning into another American thread. If you want to discuss the above, open a new thread for it.

I don't! Floppy came over and bashed me!

I'd be delighted if that and this were taken into another thread where they stop distracting from my on-topic posts here.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:56 am

Chezzie;1135388 wrote: Today another lad has come forward saying he thinks he is the Daddy, and theirs another lad who also thinks he could be the Daddy.

Richard Goodsell: I'm the real daddy, Alfie and I want a DNA test to prove it | News | News Of The World

Sounds like a typical Jerry Springer or Maury Povich show, IMO:rolleyes:

When do the folding chairs start flying?:yh_rotfl

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:56 am

spot;1135408 wrote: I don't! Floppy came over and bashed me!

I'd be delighted if that and this were taken into another thread where they stop distracting from my on-topic posts here.

I believe the post below took the thread off topic and about Americans Spot.

Originally Posted by spot

Americans are obsessed with money and possessions, have you ever noticed that?

Post by **spot** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:59 am

Chezzie;1135411 wrote: I believe the post below took the thread off topic and about Americans Spot.

It was in response to an American saying "love don't pay the bills", how is it off topic?

Come on, get your act together, split this thread so the rest of us can go back to discussing the OP. Talking it over even further before splitting it is counter-productive.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:00 am

Chezzie;1135407 wrote: As far as im aware he isnt being slated as such, just people are shocked at his babyface and yes we are still shocked when 12 year old boys get girls pregnant even if she was two years older than him when she conceived. They are both to blame, takes two to make a baby but it might not even be his now!

Quite right..... it takes two. I'm going to upload a pic of my 15 yr old nephew when Mr O gets off e bay. Have a look at his baby face

There will be some red faces if the lad turns out not to be the father.

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:01 am

oscar;1135414 wrote: Quite right..... it takes two. I'm going to upload a pic of my 15 yr old nephew when Mr O gets off e bay. Have a look at his baby face

There will be some red faces if the lad turns out not to be the father.

You cant help but feel sorry for the poor lad having that story printed along side you posing for photos with your newborn. It has to hurt doesnt it.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:07 am

Chezzie;1135415 wrote: You cant help but feel sorry for the poor lad having that story printed along side you posing for photos with your newborn. It has to hurt doesnt it.

The hard-hearted will say 'well, he'll get over it as he's just a boy'. I don't think he will and it may make him dis-trust everything around him.

My nephew has spent months preparing for his baby now due in 7 weeks. He has decorated the room at the girls mothers house, bought baby clothes out of his pocket money, got himself a little part time job etc and i know he would be devastated if he were told there was a possibility he was not the father.

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:10 am

oscar;1135420 wrote: The hard-hearted will say 'well, he'll get over it as he's just a boy'. I don't think he will and it may make him dis-trust everything around him.

My nephew has spent months preparing for his baby now due in 7 weeks. He has decorated the room at the girls mothers house, bought baby clothes out of his pocket money, got himself a little part time job etc and i know he would be devastated if he were told there was a possibility he was not the father.

One thing that made me mad was seeing that the media had got them to pose for the pics with the baby whilst they were holding playstation controls...How mean is that, you just know it was all set up to make them look bad.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:14 am

Carolly;1135146 wrote: I saw this Child on the news last night with his Baby and felt mixed emotions.What are your thoughts on this?

AFP: Boy becomes father at 13: report

My actual first thought, before being distracted- was that two kids chose to deal with the situation the hard way... they could have aborted and the public would have been none the wiser..

I think adults have a hard time appreciating that there was another option.. at least over here there is.

We never take the time to appreciate that, IMO. We are too busy judging the parenting skills of their parents and their apparent lack of upbringing and self control. If we did stop and think about it, we might send them a crate of diapers instead..