Canada's bus beheading man found not guilty

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:54 pm

I am shocked and outraged with this decision, sick or not, he should have been found guilty.

How unjustified for his family!

Schizophrenic Canada bus beheading man found not guilty

8 hours ago

OTTAWA (AFP) — A Chinese immigrant who beheaded and hacked to pieces a Canadian bus passenger in front of horrified travelers was found not guilty of murder Thursday after being diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia.

Vince Weiguang Li, 40, had been charged with murdering 22-year-old Tim McLean on a Canadian Greyhound bus on July 30, 2008.

Li had repeatedly stabbed McLean, who had been asleep on the seat next to him, sawn off his head, removed his internal organs, pocketed his nose, tongue and an ear, and taunted police and bystanders with the severed head.

Police said in court documents Li "appeared to smell, and then eat parts of Tim McLean's flesh" and "lick blood from his hands" as they surrounded the bus on a desolate highway 90 kilometers (55 miles) west of Winnipeg, in western Canada, soon after the attack.

Authorities found body parts littered throughout the bus, some in white plastic bags. McLean's eyes and a third of his heart were also missing, and it is presumed Li ate them, said a pathologist in court files, though Li denies this.

The other 35 passengers and the driver were jolted by "blood-curdling screams" and fled, said witnesses, bracing the door after their escape to trap Li inside the bus. He was subdued by police after a three-hour standoff.

Justice John Scurfield of the Manitoba Court of Queen's Bench described the killing as "grotesque" and "appalling," but ruled Li was not criminally responsible for the murder because of his mental disorder.

During a three-day trial, psychiatrists testified Li suffers from schizophrenia and did not know what he was doing when he killed McLean.

The court heard Li had auditory hallucinations on the day of the attack, that he heard God's voice telling him to board the bus from Edmonton to Winnipeg, and kill McLean.

Li dismembered McLean's body, psychiatrists testified, because he feared McLean could otherwise resurrect from the dead and seek revenge.

His mental health is to be evaluated within 90 days, the judge ordered. Thereafter, he may be released or confined to a secure psychiatric hospital for treatment.

Outside the courtroom, McLean's mother Carol Dedelley expressed her disappointment at the verdict and her fears for public safety.

"This isn't the right result," Dedelley told reporters. "Knowing that that killer might get out sometime soon is very hard."

"A crime was still committed here, a murder still occurred, and (this) ruling seems to negate that fact."

"A major illness took my son's life, and he was never sick," she said.

"Mr. Li should be held accountable for it," she said. "Whether he was in his right frame of mind or not, he still did the act. There was nobody else on that bus holding a knife slicing up my child."

McLean, according to his family, was on his way home to Winnipeg from a job as a carnival worker in western Canada, when he was attacked.

He "struggled and tried to escape" his attacker, but "eventually either fell or was thrown to the floor of the bus," said court files.

Investigators said friends described the former computer programmer who had immigrated to Canada in 2001 as having had mental problems since 2004, but said they never knew him to be violent.

Li was admitted to a mental hospital in 2005, where he was diagnosed with schizophrenia, according to court testimony.

Doctors identified his auditory hallucinations and offered him medication, but he declined treatment at the time.

"Unfortunately, he appears to have left the treatment facility without permission," the judge said.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:57 pm

Just wrong. SO he is out on the streets for 90 days then may be released if they don't confine him to a facility. YIKE..!! run for your lives he may do it again.

[QUOTE]His mental health is to be evaluated within 90 days, the judge ordered. Thereafter, he may be released or confined to a secure psychiatric hospital for treatment.[/QUOTE]

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:20 pm

CARLA;1152046 wrote: Just wrong. SO he is out on the streets for 90 days then may be released if they don't confine him to a facility. YIKE..!! run for your lives he may do it again.

isn't that sinful?:-5:-5:-5

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:42 pm

Just crazy the man should be put out of his misery. What a brutal senseless death and to not be charged with the murder I don't understand how that can be. :-5

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:44 pm

CARLA;1152052 wrote: Just crazy the man should be put out of his misery. What a brutal senseless death and to not be charged with the murder I don't understand how that can be. :-5

did I mention I hate our Canadian laws?:-5:-5

Hamster's Knight · Post by **Hamster's Knight** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:00 pm

wow...i remember hearing about this when I was in Korea and I saw the story on CNN...not that that really matters...I thought for sure that guy would fry...

Not guilty? um...there really is nothing to say about this...I'm shocked....saddened. what a crock of shi...um....poopoo

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:06 pm

Hamster's Knight;1152086 wrote: wow...i remember hearing about this when I was in Korea and I saw the story on CNN...not that that really matters...I thought for sure that guy would fry...

Not guilty? um...there really is nothing to say about this...I'm shocked....saddened. what a crock of shi...um....poopoo

it is a croc.......but it seems now a days if someone is mentally ill, they get a free lifetime pass to do as they choose.:-5:-5

Post by **spot** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:08 am

The advantage the jury had over the posters in this thread is they'd had the law described to them.

If someone owns a car and has it taken in regularly for maintenance and once day a steering link shatters while he's driving and a passing pedestrian is killed in the ensuing crash, do people here think the driver should be convicted of murder? Or convicted of anything at all? Because that's exactly what happened in this case. There was absolutely no intention to harm anyone, there was simply a broken part. Maybe it's mendable, maybe it isn't, but to call this murder is to abuse the language.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:26 am

Spot is right (though I'm not sure about his analogy...?)

During a three-day trial, psychiatrists testified Li suffers from schizophrenia and did not know what he was doing when he killed McLean.

The court heard Li had auditory hallucinations on the day of the attack, that he heard God's voice telling him to board the bus from Edmonton to Winnipeg, and kill McLean.

The points that stand out:

1) He did not know what he was doing. Paranoid schizophrenics are tormented in ways you and I cannot imagine, in this case by voices going on at him. One thing that is often wrong with schizophrenics is that they cannot tell if a voice they hear is inside or outside their head, and as confusion and fear set in (some of the things that bubble up from the subconscious are pretty scary), the things the voices inside his head are saying get more and more frightening (the "paranoid" bit)

2) If you were used to "God" telling you to do things, would you do as you thought he wanted you to?

3) I see only victims here. I don't see how killing another one helps.

4) I assume he was undiagnosed before this, if so, no-one, including himself, knew that there as anything wrong with him. He probably rationalised his experiences by thinking God had chosen him for something special...

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:16 am

I love Canada, but they are way to politically correct and lenient on stuff like this, that demented fecker should be put down like a rabid dog.

Post by **spot** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:22 am

mikeinie;1152178 wrote: I love Canada, but they are way to politically correct and lenient on stuff like this, that demented fecker should be put down like a rabid dog.

I take it you'd put down the car driver too, then?

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:33 am

MikeInie: Kill the ill? Really?

Should we kill children who kill? They are also not responsible in law or in life.

Paranoid schizophrenia is a truly horrible illness and if I had it I think I'd rather die. But one of the things about it is that if you have it, you are very unlikely to be aware of it.

And where do you draw the line? Just particularly messy killings, any killing by the insane, or all killings?

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:30 am

not going to get into another ridiculous debate here, but laws are laws.

He should be committed to a mental institution for the rest of his life, rather than a no guilty charge and set free.

and no, not just for treatment, they tried that once and he released himself then slaughtered a man to death.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:35 am

He should be committed to a mental institution for the rest of his life,

Yes.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:40 am

Clodhopper;1152196 wrote: Yes.

thank you, glad we agree.

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:15 am

Odie;1152194 wrote: not going to get into another ridiculous debate here, but laws are laws.

He should be committed to a mental institution for the rest of his life, rather than a no guilty charge and set free.

.

totally agree.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:33 am

Yes he should be put in a mental facility for the rest of his life. That is where he came from before this happened so someone wasn't paying attention. He refused medication and walked out of the facility. Hope they do a better job of keeping him a facility this time.

[QUOTE]Li was admitted to a mental hospital in 2005, where he was diagnosed with schizophrenia, according to court testimony.

Doctors identified his auditory hallucinations and offered him medication, but he declined treatment at the time.

"Unfortunately, he appears to have left the treatment facility without permission," the judge said.

[/QUOTE]

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:57 am

CARLA;1152237 wrote: Yes he should be put in a mental facility for the rest of his life. That is where he came from before this happened so someone wasn't paying attention. He refused medication and walked out of the facility. Hope they do a better job of keeping him a facility this time.

if they put him there for life;)

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:39 am

Clodhopper;1152185 wrote: MikeInie: Kill the ill? Really?

Should we kill children who kill? They are also not responsible in law or in life.

Paranoid schizophrenia is a truly horrible illness and if I had it I think I'd rather die. But one of the things about it is that if you have it, you are very unlikely to be aware of it.

And where do you draw the line? Just particularly messy killings, any killing by the insane, or all killings?

I know that I do not probably fit in with general opinion, but I believe in capital punishment.

There is ill, then there is ill.

I don’t care how sick you are, if you cut some innocent person up on a bus and rip out their insides, then you are too sick for society, we would put animals down for doing less.

What about the poor guy who was killed?

What about his family and friends who have to live knowing how this boy died.

How about all those traumatized people on the bus who had to watch this.

No, no forget all that, the poor guy was sick¦ poor fella

Post by **spot** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:06 am

mikeinie;1152290 wrote: What about the poor guy who was killed?

What about his family and friends who have to live knowing how this boy died.

How about all those traumatized people on the bus who had to watch this.

No, no forget all that, the poor guy was sick¦ poor fella

How does that differ from the guy crashing a faulty car? Seriously, I'm lost here. How's it different?

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:07 am

globeandmail.com: Li found not criminally responsible in case of man decapitated on bus

When an individual has proven beyond a doubt ( witinessed by 36 people ) that he is dangerous to the public , shouldn't the safety of the majority become more important then the treatment of the one? Mr. Li, 40, will face a mental-health review within 90 days, and subsequent annual reviews to determine if he is fit for release. He will not have a criminal record. Okay, the court has ruled he isn't criminally responsible for the murder , how does this translate into a 'clean record' ?? Isn't this just ill logical and irresponsible on the courts part to not make every effort to insure this record of what 36 people witnessed him do be like a neon sign around his neck so any time in the future anyone that comes in contact with this butcher will know what he's capable of??

Court of Queen's Bench Justice

With those words, Mr. Li, who was charged with second-degree murder, could spend life in a psychiatric facility rather than a 25-year life sentence in jail.

"He could be locked up in a hospital for the rest of his life," Crown attorney Joyce Dalmyn said outside the court. "I feel the judge did his job properly and reached the correct conclusion."

do you notice that both the Court of Queen's Bench Justice and the Crown attorney use the word 'could ' when commenting on the hospital and his being placed in one.

What will they do with him if "god" starts talking to him again and he does the same thing to a nurse or Doctor ,one of the other patients ?

He has 'fled the hospital without permission before whats to stop him for doing it again? and if he does, what to do with him if "god" starts talking to him and another innocent person just happens to have the bad luck to be sitting next to him?

Mr. Li was involuntarily admitted to an Ontario hospital and diagnosed with schizophrenia in 2005 after he was found wandering on a Toronto highway. Though a physician determined his agitated mental state would likely result in bodily harm against himself or others, Mr. Li fled the hospital without permission

I know nothing about this guys mental illness , but how is it that he can 'understand' the courts ruling but not be held criminally responsible for the murder that caused a ruling to be made?

Mr. Li's lawyer told reporters his client understood the

ruling

I realise no one here is a 'Queen's Bench Justice' or a 'Crown attorney' so all my questions are just that questions, but no matter how I look at what this guy did to that 22 year old innocent man asleep in the seat next to him the only thing that comes to mind is , we would humanely and quickly 'put down' an animal that had done anything even vaguely resembling what this butcher did and the animal has no more of an 'understanding' and actually would be 'the nature of the beast' . All my questions are just showing my complete lack of understanding of the guy not being put out of his misery and assuring the safety of the public at the same time.

I am in total agreement with what both mikeinie and Jester say about this guy.

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:13 am

spot;1152299 wrote: How does that differ from the guy crashing a faulty car? Seriously, I'm lost here. How's it different?

What car? There was no car, it was a bus, he stabbed, killed, and cut off the head of an innocent man, how is this related to a faulty car???

Post by **spot** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:16 am

mikeinie;1152302 wrote: What car? There was no car, it was a bus, he stabbed, killed, and cut off the head of an innocent man, how is this related to a faulty car???

How about if I copy my post forward, if you've not read the thread and seen it. If someone owns a car and has it taken in regularly for maintenance and one day a steering link shatters while he's driving and a passing pedestrian is killed in the ensuing crash, do people here think the driver should be convicted of murder? Or convicted of anything at all? Because that's exactly what happened in this case. There was absolutely no intention to harm anyone, there was simply a broken part. Maybe it's mendable, maybe it isn't, but to call this murder is to abuse the language.

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:25 am

spot;1152304 wrote: How about if I copy my post forward, if you've not read the thread and seen it. If someone owns a car and has it taken in regularly for maintenance and one day a steering link shatters while he's driving and a passing pedestrian is killed in the ensuing crash, do people here think the driver should be convicted of murder? Or convicted of anything at all? Because that's exactly what happened in this case. There was absolutely no intention to harm anyone, there was simply a broken part. Maybe it's mendable, maybe it isn't, but to call this murder is to abuse the language.

OH!

The difference in intent.

If you drove the car into the group of people, then reversed over them again, then drove forward and hit them again to ensure that they were dead, then an expert said, ‘the steering rod snapped’ he could not control the car.

There are plenty of medically ill people who are treated and don’t go around slaughtering people.

What is that young victim was you son? Your brother? Would you feel so sorry for the killer?

You can accidently drive into someone and really not mean to kill someone, but how do you cut off someone’s head with a knife and not mean to do it?

Post by **spot** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:35 am

mikeinie;1152305 wrote: OH!

The difference in intent.

If you drove the car into the group of people, then reversed over them again, then drove forward and hit them again to ensure that they were dead, then an expert said, ‘the steering rod snapped’ he could not control the car.

There are plenty of medically ill people who are treated and don’t go around slaughtering people.

What is that young victim was you son? Your brother? Would you feel so sorry for the killer?

You can accidently drive into someone and really not mean to kill someone, but how do you cut off someone’s head with a knife and not mean to do it?

Just think, the jury must have had all these notions too before they became educated in the duty of the court.

If you drove the car into the group of people, then reversed over them again, then drove forward and hit them again to ensure that they were dead, no expert would say "he could not control the car".

The man in the case was in exactly the position I described, nothing to do with your extrapolation. Why not try answering what I asked and then we'll both feel we've communicated?

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:56 am

spot;1152304 wrote: How about if I copy my post forward, if you've not read the thread and seen it.

If someone owns a car and has it taken in regularly for maintenance and one day a steering link shatters while he's driving and a passing pedestrian is killed in the ensuing crash, do people here think the driver should be convicted of murder? Or convicted of anything at all? Because that's exactly what happened in this case. There was absolutely no intention to harm anyone, there was simply a broken part. Maybe it's mendable, maybe it isn't, but to call this murder is to abuse the language.

Okay, about this 'broken' car, if the mechanic that has worked on this car knows the steering link is weak and will cause damage to property or other drivers and has it in the garage but doesn't do all he should to make sure the car is either fixed or not being driven , and the car is taken out on the road and the steering link shatters killing some one , what then ?

Who should take responsibility for the broken car being out on the road/ The owner, the mechanic or the car it's self or the person the car killed? Maybe whoever had filled the tank with fuel last ?

He believed he was acting in self-defence and that he had been commanded by God to do so."

Mr. Li was involuntarily admitted to an Ontario hospital and diagnosed with schizophrenia in 2005 after he was found wandering on a Toronto highway. Though a physician determined his agitated mental state would likely result in bodily harm against himself or others, Mr. Li fled the hospital without permission

minks · Post by **minks** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:26 pm

:-5

the dude had no prior mental health issues. (I thought am off to confirm) Ok his condition apparently was untreated.... I see ok so that is ok for him to killl NOT!!!!!

the dude hacked this kid up with a buck knife.... a buck knife I want to know if this dude carried this buck knife with him daily like many hunter type do? If not then hmmm what made him take the buck knife onto the bus that day??? Hmmmmm???

again my correction here it states his mental issues were untreated... fine however.... I still side with Mcleans mother.

Bloody idiotic if you ask me. You know the police had to wait for the a$$ to finish his deed on the bus before they could enter and arrest him... they took the kid out in pieces.

All the power to Mcleans mother for starting up some kind of action to get rid of this bloody insanity bull *****!!!!

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:59 pm

Yes there were prior mental health issues.

Mr. Li was involuntarily admitted to an Ontario hospital and diagnosed with schizophrenia in 2005 after he was found wandering on a Toronto highway. Though a physician determined his agitated mental state would likely result in bodily harm against himself or others, Mr. Li fled the hospital without permission

My heart goes out to the mother of the young man that was murdered .

Mr. McLean's mother vowed to prevent Mr. Li from ever being released.

"I'm going to fight to keep everyone safe from him," Carol deDelley said. "If it means going [to mental-health hearings] every year, I'll go every year. Instead of birthday parties, it'll be hearings."

globeandmail.com: Li found not criminally responsible in case of man decapitated on bus

minks · Post by **minks** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:07 pm

scholle-kid;1152498 wrote: Yes there were prior mental health issues.

Mr. Li was involuntarily admitted to an Ontario hospital and diagnosed with schizophrenia in 2005 after he was found wandering on a Toronto highway. Though a physician determined his agitated mental state would likely result in bodily harm against himself or others, Mr. Li fled the hospital without permission

My heart goes out to the mother of the young man that was murdered .

globeandmail.com: Li found not criminally responsible in case of man decapitated on bus

thanks I corrected....

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:25 pm

minks;1152468 wrote: :-5

the dude had no prior mental health issues. (I thought am off to confirm) Ok his condition apparently was untreated.... I see ok so that is ok for him to killl NOT!!!!!

the dude hacked this kid up with a buck knife.... a buck knife I want to know if this dude carried this buck knife with him daily like many hunter type do? If not then hmmm what made him take the buck knife onto the bus that day??? Hmmmmm???

again my correction here it states his mental issues were untreated... fine however.... I still side with Mcleans mother.

Bloody idiotic if you ask me. You know the police had to wait for the a$$ to finish his deed on the bus before they could enter and arrest him... they took the kid out in pieces.

All the power to Mcleans mother for starting up some kind of action to get rid of this bloody insanity bull *****!!!!

I'm sorry , I did'nt see your edit, my bad.

Where did you see the info about the weapon? I hadn't come across anything about that.

Post by **spot** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:58 pm

scholle-kid;1152317 wrote: [quote=spot]If someone owns a car and has it taken in regularly for maintenance and one day a steering link shatters while he's driving and a passing pedestrian is killed in the ensuing crash, do people here think the driver should be convicted of murder? Or convicted of anything at all? Because that's exactly what happened in this case. There was absolutely no intention to harm anyone, there was simply a broken part. Maybe it's mendable, maybe it isn't, but to call this murder is to abuse the language.Okay, about this 'broken' car, if the mechanic that has worked on this car knows the steering link is weak and will cause damage to property or other drivers and has it in the garage but doesn't do all he should to make sure the car is either fixed or not being driven , and the car is taken out on the road and the steering link shatters killing some one , what then ?

Who should take responsibility for the broken car being out on the road/ The owner, the mechanic or the car it's self or the person the car killed? Maybe whoever had filled the tank with fuel last ?

Did you notice you gave no answer to my question in among that? I'd be interested in one, it's why I asked.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:18 pm

I feel for the family of the this boy, it was an horrific thing to happen.

I find it interesting that someone has to take the blame... be hung, drawn and quartered so to speak in return.

Lets hope that lessons will be learnt and a judge will never have to say these words in a similar case again: "Unfortunately, he appears to have left the treatment facility without permission," This man is mentally ill, he left a treatment facility of his own accord and these are the risks:

Without medication and therapy, most paranoid schizophrenics are unable to function in the real world. If they fall victim to severe hallucinations and delusions, they can be a danger to themselves and those around them.

Paranoid Schizophrenia

Surely the treatment unit needs to look into how a long term patient can just 'leave' the facility.

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:20 pm

spot;1152543 wrote: Did you notice you gave no answer to my question in among that? I'd be interested in one, it's why I asked.

Oh, my apologies, I thought you was talking to mikeinie when you mentioned something about communicating with him.

I should have just copied your post instead of the quote button.

I was just thinking out loud . As I said before, all I got is questions about this guy having to take no responsibility . again my apologies.

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:26 pm

Betty Boop;1152551 wrote: I feel for the family of the this boy, it was an horrific thing to happen.

I find it interesting that someone has to take the blame... be hung, drawn and quartered so to speak in return.

Lets hope that lessons will be learnt and a judge will never have to say these words in a similar case again: "Unfortunately, he appears to have left the treatment facility without permission," This man is mentally ill, he left a treatment facility of his own accord and these are the risks:

Without medication and therapy, most paranoid schizophrenics are unable to function in the real world. If they fall victim to severe hallucinations and delusions, they can be a danger to themselves and those around them.

Paranoid Schizophrenia

Surely the treatment unit needs to look into how a long term patient can just 'leave' the facility.

If he was to be locked away and never have the chance to do any thing like this again , that would 'solve' the issuse of him being a danger to the public. But this quote from the news rort oon the court ruling scares,

Mr. Li, 40, will face a mental-health review within 90 days, and subsequent annual reviews to determine if he is fit for release. He will not have a criminal record.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:31 pm

scholle-kid;1152558 wrote: If he was to be locked away and never have the chance to do any thing like this again , that would 'solve' the issuse of him being a danger to the public. But this quote from the news rort oon the court ruling scares,

I assume the court made that ruling because institutions are not allowed to hold people against their wishes, they have to obtain court orders to do so otherwise being held against their will contravines their Human Rights.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:29 pm

Betty Boop;1152551 wrote: I feel for the family of the this boy, it was an horrific thing to happen.

I find it interesting that someone has to take the blame... be hung, drawn and quartered so to speak in return.

Lets hope that lessons will be learnt and a judge will never have to say these words in a similar case again: "Unfortunately, he appears to have left the treatment facility without permission," This man is mentally ill, he left a treatment facility of his own accord and these are the risks:

Without medication and therapy, most paranoid schizophrenics are unable to function in the real world. If they fall victim to severe hallucinations and delusions, they can be a danger to themselves and those around them.

Paranoid Schizophrenia

Surely the treatment unit needs to look into how a long term patient can just 'leave' the facility.

this time keep him for good.:-5:-5

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:53 pm

Betty Boop;1152561 wrote: I assume the court made that ruling because institutions are not allowed to hold people against their wishes, they have to obtain court orders to do so otherwise being held against their will contravines their Human Rights.

it works the same way here, if the ill person is over the age of 18 , they have either check themselves in with the understanding the doors always open , if court ordered they can keep you for what ever time the court orderd. ,

the way it is worded , in The US , the courts and lawyers seem to have a love affair with cases where there no "set in stone " solutions. But the wasy that one quote is worded , to me that sounds like he has more of a chance legaly staying out off the hospital than being confined in one. .

""He could be locked up in a hospital for the rest of his life,"

"He will not have a criminal record."

"

""He is getting away with murder," said Vana Smart, Mr. McLean's older sister. "After the review board decides that he can be medically managed in the community ... he will be able to pursue his life as he pleases."

Just things like these quotes from the judge and lawyer and close family member of the murdered young man makes ask all thses questions.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:18 pm

scholle-kid;1152624 wrote: it works the same way here, if the ill person is over the age of 18 , they have either check themselves in with the understanding the doors always open , if court ordered they can keep you for what ever time the court orderd. ,

the way it is worded , in The US , the courts and lawyers seem to have a love affair with cases where there no "set in stone " solutions. But the wasy that one quote is worded , to me that sounds like he has more of a chance legaly staying out off the hospital than being confined in one. .

""He could be locked up in a hospital for the rest of his life,"

"He will not have a criminal record."

"

""He is getting away with murder," said Vana Smart, Mr. McLean's older sister. "After the review board decides that he can be medically managed in the community ... he will be able to pursue his life as he pleases."

Just things like these quotes from the judge and lawyer and close family member of the murdered young man makes ask all thses questions. Under British law, he would be sectioned under the mental health act for ' an indefinate period' in a secure institution such as 'Broadmoor'. He would never be released.

Post by **Ally** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:18 pm

mikenie;1152302 wrote: what car? There was no car, it was a bus, he stabbed, killed, and cut off the head of an innocent man, how is this related to a faulty car???

i was in canada for a holiday wen i heard about this,and we travelled on greyhound buses quite a bit,really put the wind up me.i am at a lose to hear that his man wont have a record for this crime,and it is a crime whether he was ill or not a young boy was mutalated.he was sleeping for goodness sake and this maniac went on a frenzyed attack.we have enough of theses walk in walk out mental people, its time the authoraties did their job and have laws that protect the public.

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:27 pm

Ally;1152639 wrote: i was in canada for a holiday wen i heard about this,and we travelled on greyhound buses quite a bit,really put the wind up me.i am at a lose to hear that his man wont have a record for this crime,and it is a crime whether he was ill or not a young boy was mutalated.he was sleeping for goodness sake and this maniac went on a frenzyed attack.we have enough of theses walk in walk out mental people, its time the authoraties did their job and have laws that protect the public.

Exactly !

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:35 pm

oscar;1152637 wrote: Under British law, he would be sectioned under the mental health act for ' an indefinite period' in a secure institution such as 'Broadmoor'. He would never be released.

Okay, We can hope this what happens.

I tell you what this case scares the living H**l outta me.

He will come into contact with other people in this secure institution,

What does the courts do with him if , "God" talks to him again? Yes, i know logically he will be under treatment and on meds etc... but absolutely Nothing about what that butcher did with a buck knife on the bus has any 'logic' at all, None!

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:43 pm

Ally;1152639 wrote: i was in canada for a holiday wen i heard about this,and we travelled on greyhound buses quite a bit,really put the wind up me.i am at a lose to hear that his man wont have a record for this crime,and it is a crime whether he was ill or not a young boy was mutalated.he was sleeping for goodness sake and this maniac went on a frenzyed attack.we have enough of theses walk in walk out mental people, its time the authoraties did their job and have laws that protect the public.

I fully agree Ally, sick or not sick, to many mental ill patients get away with murder!:-5:-5

and in Canada, they have the right to walk out of any institution.

imagine that creature out again?:-5:-5:-5

Post by **Ally** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:49 pm

odie;1152657 wrote: i fully agree ally, sick or not sick, to many mental ill patients get away with murder!:-5:-5

and in canada, they have the right to walk out of any institution.

Imagine that creature out again?:-5:-5:-5

its very scary odiekins,but unfortunately most governments dont no wot to do with people like this.if he can get away with murder which he has,anybody can say they are mentaly ill then no one will be responsabile for their crimes.freeks me out.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:50 pm

scholle-kid;1152648 wrote: Okay, We can hope this what happens.

I tell you what this case scares the living H**l outta me.

He will come into contact with other people in this secure institution,

What does the courts do with him if , "God" talks to him again? Yes, i know logically he will be under treatment and on meds etc... but absolutely Nothing about what that butcher did with a buck knife on the bus has any 'logic' at all, None! This is exactly the part that he would be sectioned indefinately under British Law. Outside of a secure unit, there is no guarantee he would get the medication to ensure that 'God' doesn't talk to him again. Only a secure unit can gaurantee that and protect the public. Once sectioned, he would be deemed mentally unfit to sue the government for holding him against his will under his human rights act of British law.

Post by **Ally** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:57 pm

oscar;1152666 wrote: this is exactly the part that he would be sectioned indefinitely under british law. Outside of a secure unit, there is no guarantee he would get the medication to ensure that 'god' doesn't talk to him again. Only a secure unit can guarantee that and protect the public. Once sectioned, he would be deemed mentally unfit to sue the government for holding him against his will under his human rights act of british law.

mabe they should send him to brtain.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:59 pm

Ally;1152665 wrote: its very scary odiekins,but unfortunately most governments dont no wot to do with people like this.if he can get away with murder which he has,anybody can say they are mentaly ill then no one will be responsabile for their crimes.freeks me out.

but it could be so simple.....lock the door in the institution. :-5:-5

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:04 pm

I don't mean to sound like I'm nit picking this , but your the first one that has any knowledge of the laws over there ,, or is willing to share the info.

"Mr. Li, 40, will face a mental-health review within 90 days, and subsequent annual reviews to determine if he is fit for release. He will not have a criminal record."

this a 'part' of the court ruling . I could go with the 'logic' tells us , except there's nothing logical about this butcher. What does the court mean by that statement? the bold text.

Post by **Ally** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:06 pm

Odie;1152677 wrote: but it could be so simple.....lock the door in the institution. :-5:-5

AND THROW AWAY THE KEY.

:mad:

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:11 pm

scholle-kid;1152684 wrote: I don't mean to sound like I'm nit picking this , but your the first one that has any knowledge of the laws over there ,, or is willing to share the info.

"Mr. Li, 40, will face a mental-health review within 90 days, and subsequent annual reviews to determine if he is fit for release. He will not have a criminal record."

this a 'part' of the court ruling . I could go with the 'logic' tells us , except there's nothing logical about this butcher. What does the court mean by that statement? the bold text.

yes, a part of court ruling, just means he will be evaluated yearly....to see if it he fit for release..........that simple.......

thing is though, with a schizophrenic, they have good days and bad.....if he has good ones.....he may be aloud out.

Ours laws are very negligent, even for murder 1, maximum sentence is 25 years without parole.