Gordon Brown accuses Salmond's nationalists of being fixated on independence.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:00 pm

Gordon Brown insists the bail-out save the Scots.

Brown says bailout saved Scots, uses it as defence of Union | Mail Online

Gordon Brown launched a staunch defence of the Union with Scotland last night - and said the multi-billion pound bank bailout was testament to its strength.

He used an address to the Scottish Labour conference to accuse Alex Salmond's nationalists of being 'fixated' on securing independence at any cost.

But he said the £37billion Westminster-coordinated rescue of two Scottish banks - Royal Bank of Scotland and HBOS - proved the UK was stronger together.

His words will infuriate First Minister Mr Salmond, whose Scottish National Party is the largest in the Scottish Parliament after running on a ticket centring on holding a referendum on splitting the historic Union as well as the Scottish members of Forum Garden. In his speech, Mr Brown said the Scots had been saved from ruin only because British taxpayers had given guarantees worth billions of pounds to shore up the two banks, which employ thousands north of the border.

Economists say Scotland would have been bankrupted had RBS and HBOS been allowed to fail.

Mr Brown said: 'When Scottish banks collapsed, the whole of the UK came together to stand by our banking system to prevent the banks from total collapse.'

He said the UK had given 'guarantees that no country the size of Scotland could ever have been able to give. 'Scotland does better when part of the United Kingdom and not outside it.'

He also pointed to how the Scottish Parliament had voted on Thursday against holding an independence referendum proposed by the minority SNP administration. He said it showed that most MSPs understood the first priority for Scots was not 'separation' but social justice.

Mr Brown also set out a four-point blueprint for global banking reform that he will put to next month's G20 meeting of world leaders in Britain. It will include bringing tax havens into the regulatory net and agreeing that bonuses should be based on long-term results.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:38 am

But they are Nationalists, thats what Nationalists are all about, what's wrong with that? Just like English nationalists are all about getting "independence" from the EU, so a lot of Scots want out of the U.K. and into the EU as an independent country.

The arguments about banks etc is a red herring, in the Republic, we have had equally as damaging bank issues, but thanks to our membership of the Euro and the EU we have been about able to weather the storm so far, so an independent Scotland inside the Eurozone would be about as secure financially as the current Scotland inside the Sterling zone.

That of course comes with the proviso that in reality no one is very financially secure at the moment, not the US, not the EU, not the UK, Japan, etc etc.

Well, its not for me to tell the Scots what to do, but I'd love to see an independent Scotland, in fact what I'd like to see are an independent England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales, that have their own self-governance, but cooperate on matters of interest to all the nations of these Island within the wider framework of the EU.

I'm sure the Republic would be a party to that sort of an arrangement, if it involved 3 other truly independent nations, and not just England and its remaining dependent territories.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:50 am

Galbally;1152845 wrote: But they are Nationalists, thats what Nationalists are all about, what's wrong with that? Just like English nationalists are all about getting "independence" from the EU, so a lot of Scots want out of the U.K. and into the EU as an independent country.

The arguments about banks etc is a red herring, in the Republic, we have had equally as damaging bank issues, but thanks to our membership of the Euro and the EU we have been about able to weather the storm so far, so an independent Scotland inside the Eurozone would be about as secure financially as the current Scotland inside the Sterling zone.

That of course comes with the proviso that in reality no one is very financially secure at the moment, not the US, not the EU, not the UK, Japan, etc etc.

Well, its not for me to tell the Scots what to do, but I'd love to see an independent Scotland, in fact what I'd like to see are an independent England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales, that have their own self-governance, but cooperate on matters of interest to all the nations of these Island within the wider framework of the EU.

I'm sure the Republic would be a party to that sort of an arrangement, if it involved 3 other truly independent nations, and not just England and its remaining dependent territories. I'm surprised gmc hasn't logged on to this and bellowed a tirade of insults at his Worship yet but then, I think Scotland closes on a Saturday.

Sorry Gallders but one would have to say that one's fellow countryman and fine gentleman is talking bollocks.

I absolutely agree with Gordon Brown that if he had not saved the banks, they xould have bankrupted Scotland should they have been independent at the time. You can bang on all you like that it was down to the PM for not regulating the banks in the first place and allowing the likes of 'Sir Fred' to do what he did. However, not all the blame can be put on the government or anyone else.

Of course jobs are going to be lost the same as they are being lost here but there would have been mass un-employment is Scotland if the Government had not stepped in and he is right. 'Salmond' is a numpty who dreams of his Independent Scotland but can not even look after his own budget.

I must admit, I don't like the PM's statement that the English tax-payer has saved Scotland as that's crowing but it's not far off the truth is it?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:06 am

JAB;1152989 wrote: Is there really a serious push for an independent Scotland, Wales & Ireland? :wah: Yes there is. Ireland is already Independent and frankly it's why they are on the verge of Bankruptcy. That's not crowing at the Irish, it is fact due to their Independence, our government could not step in and do what they did with Scotland's main bank.

The cry for Independence from Wales is not as strong as from Scotland. Scotland has it's own political Party called 'The Scottish National Party' and their leader is 'Alex Salmond'. There was a pretty important by-election some months ago that the SNP needed to win big time but I'm afraid Gordon Brown trounced them.

Yes..... an Independent Scotland is a huge issue here. If you like you can google the Scottish National party or Alex salmond to find out more

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:42 pm

oscar;1152992 wrote: :wah: Yes there is. Ireland is already Independent and frankly it's why they are on the verge of Bankruptcy. That's not crowing at the Irish, it is fact due to their Independence, our government could not step in and do what they did with Scotland's main bank.

The cry for Independence from Wales is not as strong as from Scotland. Scotland has it's own political Party called 'The Scottish National Party' and their leader is 'Alex Salmond'. There was a pretty important by-election some months ago that the SNP needed to win big time but I'm afraid Gordon Brown trounced them.

Yes..... an Independent Scotland is a huge issue here. If you like you can google the Scottish National party or Alex salmond to find out more

Oscar we have been independent from the UK for seventy years, your remarks are extremely insulting to Irish people, we are not bankrupt because we are independent from Britain, no more than you are bankrupt because your independent of Russia. We are in the Eurozone, our lender of last resort is the ECB, not the BOE, thats the situation, you have nothing to do with the Republic of Ireland, (other than through the EU), and we wouldn't want your "help" thank you, no matter what the situation!

Chookie · Post by **Chookie** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:49 pm

JAB;1153005 wrote: For now though, shall I assume (amid all the risks that come with using that word!) that the Welsh love the Brits more then the Scots do?

Nobody loves the "Brits". We (Scots, Welsh and Irish) put up with the English as they are a sorry bunch who need to be supervised. Unfortunately it's only the cretins who want to look important who stand for election to the Palace of Westminster (House of Commons).

Oscar said:-

I absolutely agree with Gordon Brown that if he had not saved the banks, they xould have bankrupted Scotland should they have been independent at the time.

Had we been independent, we wouldn't be in the excrement to the extent we are now. Had we been skint, we would have been independent long ago.

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:51 pm

Pfttt why do you think Mr Brown wants to hang onto Scotland so badly?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:20 pm

JAB;1152989 wrote: Is there really a serious push for an independent Scotland, Wales & Ireland?

Ireland has been independent for over seventy years. A fact which-no offence or anti American comment intended seems to escape most Americans who think the IRA were gallant freedom fighters struggling for independence from Britain.

Scotland is in outlook overwhelmingly left wing in it's politics and Labour take most of the parliamentary seats. Without scottish Mp's the government would not be able to get most of it's legislation passed and we have the farcical situation where scots mp's vote on legislation that does not effect Scotland-we have a separate legal and education system. If Scotland is independent and the number of scots labour MP's in westminster is reduced then labour would never be the party in power. There is currently only one Tory MP in the whole of scotland. s at the last scottish elections (we have a devolved parliament with some powers) The Scottish nationalist Party won a very narrow majority upsetting the last fifty years or so when it has been labour that win all the seats. For the scottish parliament we use a form of proportional representation so the tories do have some seats there but since they are also called the conservative and unionist party they have a problem with independence-although they are now in favour of the devolved parliament as their intransigence on the matter cost them every seat in scotland for the westminster parliament. (Westminster is the main UK parliament )

Gordon brown and the labour party are shitting themselves with fear that the SNP win a bigger majority at the next elections-if they do a referendum on full independence is on the cards and the outcome would potentially lead to full independence. Far from being subsidised by England we receive back less than we pay in taxes to the exchequer-a fact most scots are well aware of. Most scots are in fact ambivalent about full blown independence but like being able to scare our politicians that we might go for it. But the more we are told that we could not survive on our own the more likely a vote for independence is-something which girdion brown and his ilk haven't worked out yet. There is also the issue as to whether there should be a referendum n the issue. The snp want one but labour say no-whicfh tends to imply they are terrified what the result might be. The two main Scottish banks have been badly affected by the present credit crisis and are major employers in Scotland and incidentally of many of gordon brown's constituents. If there are mass redundancies the resultant hostility to GB and his cronies will probably see him lose his seat and the SNP scoring big time at the next election.

Oscar is English and a daily mail reader and as a consequence hasn't a clue what is gong on. Wales is in a different situation from scotland-we have a stronger economy for one thing not to mention oil off our shores which give us an edge plus we kept our distinct legal and educational systems. Wales was conquered scotland was bribed, england needs us it's a moot point we need them. There's a line across the country between those who admired margaret thatcher and those who hate her guts A logical break would be scotland and the north of england separating from the South east of england. Like us they have often times been the victim of a government centred round london and the south of england.

Brits is a generic term-a shortening of the word british and there is no such thingas a typical one. The welsh are the vestiges of the original celtic inhabitants of the UK. The british are a mongrel nation consisting of celts, (the scots originally invaded from ireland) angles, saxons, vikings of the danish, swedish and norwegian variety, picts and the odd roman that decided to stay.

GORDON IS A MORON

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:51 pm

For the love of God...... I pop out for a few hours and come home to find I've been ganged up on by the Scots and The Irish :wah: Oh well, I suppose i did post the thread.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:58 pm

JAB;1153223 wrote: No offense taken GMC, as I admittedly profess very little knowledge in the relationships between the Scots, Welsh, Irish and Brits (for the sake of distinction). I guess my asking about the distinction of Northern Ireland would further show my ignorance? Just a wee correction here Jab. To clarify........ The United kingdom consists of four countries. England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland, other wise known as the British Isle's. If you are Irish, Scottish or Welsh.... You are british. If you were not born in these three.... you are English.

I consider myself British as my Family and father are Irish although i was born in England. Does, that help?

However, Northern Ireland comes under British rule. Southern Ireland is Independent.

Chookie · Post by **Chookie** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:59 pm

JAB;1153223 wrote: No offense taken GMC, as I admittedly profess very little knowledge in the relationships between the Scots, Welsh, Irish and Brits (for the sake of distinction). I guess my asking about the distinction of Northern Ireland would further show my ignorance?

Not at all. Northern Ireland is, in my opinion, the result of a long-term policy of the English state (when was still a state), of removing the troublesome natives and replacing them with settlers who would be more in concert with English ambitions. The English from the time immemorial had ambitions to rule far more than they could. In Ireland, this took the form of importing Anglo-Normans (at the beginning), and, later, English nobles to "look after" the poor bloody Irish (and profit from them).

This carried on for centuries, but when the English throne fell to the Stuarts, Jamie Saxt decided to "plant" Scottish Lowlanders, who were staunchly Presbyterian in a land which was staunchly Catholic.

This led to a sort of institutional religious bigotry which still exists today.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:05 pm

Galbally;1153077 wrote: Oscar we have been independent from the UK for seventy years, your remarks are extremely insulting to Irish people, we are not bankrupt because we are independent from Britain, no more than you are bankrupt because your independent of Russia. We are in the Eurozone, our lender of last resort is the ECB, not the BOE, thats the situation, you have nothing to do with the Republic of Ireland, (other than through the EU), and we wouldn't want your "help" thank you, no matter what the situation!

Don't act like i've just shot bambi. Your the first to talk about the shyte Ireland is in right now. Your the first to take the pisse out of your own politicians in the fact that they don't know what they are doing. You even posted a thread recently called 'Watch Ireland over the next week'. Just because i have used the word 'Bankrupt' which i'll apologise for if it offends you, to describe the dire state of affairs in Ireland at the moment, does not mean i have set out to insult the Irish. My family are fecking Irish....... Does it not occur to you that i may be concerned about their jobs and homes in Ireland?...... Grow up. Do you see me having a hissy fit every time gmc calls Gordon Brown a moron or posts a thread just to wind me up?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:07 pm

Chookie;1153243 wrote: Not at all. Northern Ireland is, in my opinion, the result of a long-term policy of the English state (when was still a state), of removing the troublesome natives and replacing them with settlers who would be more in concert with English ambitions. The English from the time immemorial had ambitions to rule far more than they could. In Ireland, this took the form of importing Anglo-Normans (at the beginning), and, later, English nobles to "look after" the poor bloody Irish (and profit from them).

This carried on for centuries, but when the English throne fell to the Stuarts, Jamie Saxt decided to "plant" Scottish Lowlanders, who were staunchly Presbyterian in a land which was staunchly Catholic.

This led to a sort of institutional religious bigotry which still exists today.
Tis true.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:10 pm

buttercup;1153193 wrote: Pfttt why do you think Mr Brown wants to hang onto Scotland so badly?
Ummmmm Perhaps because you've got the oil and the American warheads? :wah:

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:19 pm

gmc;1153218 wrote:

Gordon brown and the labour party are shitting themselves with fear that the SNP win a bigger majority at the next elections-if they do a referendum on full independence is on the cards and the outcome would potentially lead to full independence.

Says the man who defiently predicted a landslide victory to the SNP in Glenrothes by Election when just to bask in the full sunshine of gloatiness here, Gordon Brown trounced the lot of you and the Torie's lost their deposit. Boo Hoo Hoo :-1 :yh_rotfl

You know as well as i do gmc that the only hope in hell you have of an independent Scotland is the Torie's winning the General election and losing their seats in Scotland. You also know that if Gordon Brown wins the General Election, it will never happen under a Labour Government and Gordon Brown in Number 10.

Chookie · Post by **Chookie** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:31 pm

oscar;1153250 wrote: Ummmmm Perhaps because you've got the oil and the American warheads? :wah:

Alas, poor Oscar. The Yanks have been gone for years............

oscar;1153257 wrote:

You know as well as i do gmc that the only hope in hell you have of an independent Scotland is the Torie's winning the General election and losing their seats in Scotland.

Alas poor Oscar. The Tories don't have seats in Scotland. They have the grand total of ONE.

I will bet you a large sum of money (up to 50p) that your hero loses his seat at the next election....

I will also admit, not for public dissemination, that I actually know the bastard.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:38 pm

Chookie;1153261 wrote: Alas, poor Oscar. The Yanks have been gone for years............

Alas poor Oscar. The Tories don't have seats in Scotland. They have the grand total of ONE.

I will bet you a large sum of money (up to 50p) that your hero loses his seat at the next election....

I will also admit, not for public dissemination, that I actually know the bastard. :wah: I never profess to be the greatest historian of Scotland but some of my comments are tongue in cheek and designed to grate rather than inform.

50p eh..... that much?? :wah: As this offer was given to me some weeks ago by the hamster el guapo.... I shall say the same to you as i said to him. I don't bet under a grand. I'll take your bet and any trusted member on this forum can hold my stake ready to hand you should he lose. I'm quite happy to wait until nearer the election if you want to play safe but there's my offer..... £1,000 cash or nothing.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:00 pm

oscar;1153266 wrote: :wah: I never profess to be the greatest historian of Scotland but some of my comments are tongue in cheek and designed to grate rather than inform.

50p eh..... that much?? :wah: As this offer was given to me some weeks ago by the hamster el guapo.... I shall say the same to you as i said to him. I don't bet under a grand. I'll take your bet and any trusted member on this forum can hold my stake ready to hand you should he lose. I'm quite happy to wait until nearer the election if you want to play safe but there's my offer..... £1,000 cash or nothing. Come on your Chookiness...... If you sooooooooo confident he will lose his seat.... you should be snapping up my offer in a heart beat. I'm serious.....are you?

And i know your watching this thread galbally.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:02 pm

oscar;1153245 wrote: Don't act like i've just shot bambi. Your the first to talk about the shyte Ireland is in right now. Your the first to take the pisse out of your own politicians in the fact that they don't know what they are doing. You even posted a thread recently called 'Watch Ireland over the next week'. Just because i have used the word 'Bankrupt' which i'll apologise for if it offends you, to describe the dire state of affairs in Ireland at the moment, does not mean i have set out to insult the Irish. My family are fecking Irish....... Does it not occur to you that i may be concerned about their jobs and homes in Ireland?...... Grow up. Do you see me having a hissy fit every time gmc calls Gordon Brown a moron or posts a thread just to wind me up?

Its not that Oscar, saying we are verging on bankruptcy, that's true, I don't mind that at all. Your perfectly entitled to say what you like about the economy here, its screwed up, but its nothing to do with us being in or out of the UK, no more than France's economy being fecked up is to do with it being in or out of the UK, we are not part of you, we see you as foreigners, you need to understand this very clearly. We don't hate the UK, but its a foreign EU country to us, just like Spain or Italy.

So what riles me, is this assumption that we are bankrupt because we don't have the bloody English to bail us out with their money and all of that crap, its so typically English and patronizing. We are not like the Scots or the Welsh, we never accepted English rule from London we had to be coerced mercilessly to keep us down, and after 700 years of that, we never ever would allow that situation to arise again, no matter what the circumstances were.

The Republic of Ireland is currently fecked its totally true, and it not your fault, or the EU's fault, or America's fault its fecked because, voluntarily, we have become just another Western consumer society (like you guys) that values nothing but money and shopping, not because we are not part of the United Kingdom, we are well shot of that nonsense years and years ago, I'd leave this country and go to America if we ended up back in that godawful situation, but it never will, we'd nuke ourselves first.

In terms of the financial crisis, it's totally our own fault for what has happened, and as an Irish person it hurts to see my country being knocked so low by this stuff, and by all the treasonous economic behaviour of some at the top, but we will survive, we have survived much, much worse in our past, in times when were treated as so much cattle to be killed, starved and exiled in our own land, in our millions, we do not forget that, ever, its burned into our collective memory. That's why seeing bankers do things that put the whole functioning of the Republic that took us generations of dying and suffering to achieve is so hurtful for us.

But whatever happens, make no mistake, we (and our country) will survive this. If it means we have to go back to being impoverished, mocked, and ridiculed by our "betters" so be it.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:06 pm

Also, Oscar, I know your only on a wind-up, and you don't mean to be condescending or patronizing intentionally, its cool, but I am quite upset about what's happening to my country, so you should probably just leave it, as I am not in the form for being all adult and cool about things at the moment.

Oh well, ho hum this is just the way life goes sumtimes, init?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:49 pm

Galbally;1153291 wrote: Also, Oscar, I know your only on a wind-up, and you don't mean to be condescending or patronizing intentionally, its cool, but I am quite upset about what's happening to my country, so you should probably just leave it, as I am not in the form for being all adult and cool about things at the moment.

Oh well, ho hum this is just the way life goes sumtimes, init? No, I am not being condescending or Patronizing. The post that offended you was my reply to Jab who is American. I don't understand alot that goes on in America so i was trying to put some-thing across to her bearing in mind she does not have your knowledge of historical and current climate.

We are or were in the same boat. The point i tried to make was that if Ireland was not independent, the British Government could have nationalised your banks and save a lot of the problems now facing you. It was not an insult to the Irish. I am quite capable of Insulting the Irish in more overt terms of expression should i wish to.

Ironically, there wa an article in the Daily mail today from a speech made by Nick Who Clegg, leader of the Lib Dems that agree's with your concept of the money obssesses capitalistic nations that we have become. Only he laid the blame fairly and squarely at the feet of Thatcher and her government. I agree with him whole-heartedly.

We have to wait to see what Gordey Boy announces at the summit. One of two things will happen in Gordon Brown's time in number 10. He will either be hailed as the man who saved us and the greatest Prime Minister or were all fecked.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:02 pm

YouTube - Gordon's alive!

One of two things will happen :yh_rotfl

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:14 pm

oscar;1153309 wrote: No, I am not being condescending or Patronizing. The post that offended you was my reply to Jab who is American. I don't understand alot that goes on in America so i was trying to put some-thing across to her bearing in mind she does not have your knowledge of historical and current climate.

We are or were in the same boat. The point i tried to make was that if Ireland was not independent, the British Government could have nationalised your banks and save a lot of the problems now facing you. It was not an insult to the Irish. I am quite capable of Insulting the Irish in more overt terms of expression should i wish to.

Ironically, there wa an article in the Daily mail today from a speech made by Nick Who Clegg, leader of the Lib Dems that agree's with your concept of the money obssesses capitalistic nations that we have become. Only he laid the blame fairly and squarely at the feet of Thatcher and her government. I agree with him whole-heartedly.

We have to wait to see what Gordey Boy announces at the summit. One of two things will happen in Gordon Brown's time in number 10. He will either be hailed as the man who saved us and the greatest Prime Minister or were all fecked.

Look, its fine, I know.

Your right, we are all in this situation together, its catastrophic to be honest, but its a human problem, and its not unsolvable, its just very hard to see what can be done that won't involve a lot of political, economic, and social difficulties for all of us.

I honestly hope that Gordey does have the right answers, or Angela Merkel, or Sarkozy, or Obama, or anyone for that matter. At the moment, the truth is that no one really has a clear idea out of this, there are different choices being made by different countries.

I just hope that someone makes some of the right decisions somewhere, and that others can follow the lead, if that happens in Britain, then I will be the first to say well done, and brilliant.

We do all need to draw lessons from this about the mode of living we have adopted, and where it has brought us now, I like many people do believe that the rot really set in with Thatcher and Regan, though it started much earlier with people like Barry Goldwater and others who started this neoliberal consumerist society of nonsense we all have endured for so long. In my own country, that has been compounded by corruption, crony capitalism, and a lack of imagination that served to just prop up this crazy boom, it all goes back to property.

Its still all in the process of happening, so its too early now, but eventually over time it will become clearer the old lessons being relearnt once more, and ever was it thus.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:40 pm

JAB;1153323 wrote: Wow, I didn't know this. How come none of the Brits I've worked with over the last 9 years or so never corrected me to say, 'no, I'm English' when I refered to them as Brits? I think the fact that England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales being known as 'The British isles or the UK leads most to assume that 'British' is the correct term for us all. Believe me, many British people have no idea of the difference either unless they have a sense of history of this country and how it came to be that way. So now, when you read of an event happening in England, you know it happened somewhere other than Scotland, Ireland or Wales. If it's reported as happening in Britain, it could be any of the four countries. Hey, your country confuses the heck out of me :wah: I can't get all these states.

This is why britain has two Flags. The Union Jack most commonly seen is the flag of Britain and the four countries. The St george Cross as in my avitar is the flag of England.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:48 pm

JAB;1153335 wrote: C'mon, we only have 50 of them - what's yer problem?! :wah: :wah: I could probably name 40 off the top of my head. If there had not been a Governmental coup here and Tony Blair being voted out in favour of Gordon brown, we were in danger of becoming the 51st state of America. Tony Blair's alliegence with Goerge Bush was worrying.

YouTube - NEWS FLASH: President Bush sings ENDLESS LOVE

:wah::wah:

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:08 pm

JAB;1153345 wrote: :wah: That is a good one.

If you can name 40 then you're doing better then a lot of Americans, I'm sad to say. Geography or Civics has gone by the wayside and isn't taught in the schools as much as it was when I was going to school. A few months ago, Cars put on a link for an American knowledge test. some of the questions were quite hard but i got 26 out of 30, i think i had the same score as Spot, and i was quite pleased with myself. We then put on a link of the British test and all the American poster only got half right :yh_rotfl

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:09 am

JAB;1153323 wrote: Wow, I didn't know this. How come none of the Brits I've worked with over the last 9 years or so never corrected me to say, 'no, I'm English' when I refered to them as Brits?

Hi JAB, the way it works is like this. You have England, Scotland, Wales, these three nations make up "Great Britain", which is also the Island of Britain you can see on the map, then when you add in the six counties of Ulster that were partitioned away from Ireland in 1923 and now known as "Northern Ireland" and add that bit at the top of Ireland to Britain you have "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" or the UK for short.

The UK is a unitary nation state, with the Queen of England as its head of state, and the prime minister of the main party sitting in the house of commons in Westminster as its head of government; (currently Gordon Brown of the Labour Party) its also a member state of the European Union.

At present there are questions about whether Scotland wants to remain part of this British Union or leave and become an independent European country within the wider European Union. If you ever travel around Britain you will quickly realize that although they are all quite similar in certain ways, England, Scotland, and Wales are all actually different countries, particularly Scotland and England, which are quite different to one another.

As for my country, well that's the other 70 percent of the island of Ireland that isn't Northern Ireland, the other 26 counties of the country, form the Republic of Ireland, which is a fully sovereign state, which was founded as the result of a war with Britain called "The Anglo-Irish War" which happened from 1919 to 1922, and a subsequent Irish Civil War, (1922-23). The Republic of Ireland has an international border with the UK its own Government and President, and is a fellow member state of the European Union. Its a totally different country from the UK, just like Canada and the US are totally different countries.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:34 am

JAB;1153323 wrote: Wow, I didn't know this. How come none of the Brits I've worked with over the last 9 years or so never corrected me to say, 'no, I'm English' when I refered to them as Brits?

British is an acceptable generic term for the inhabitants of this island. Gordon brown is the prime minister of britain not of england. If however you were to refer to england when in fact you should have referred to britain or british in your colleagues presence or ask if they were english or british you would very soon be corrected if you were talking to a scot, welsh or irish person. It gets right up our noses. It's like referring to yanks instead of americans when talking to someone from the south. Or asking a canadian if they are american cos they sound like one. If you ask someone from the uk what nationality they are they are you are more likely to get scots welsh or english as an answer than british Curiously enough the only ines that refer to themselves as british tend to be from northern ireland. The term "Brits " is, I believe, one first used in northern ireland over the recent troubles and has entered the lexicon.

The english, especially those from the south of england, being thick skinned and pig ignorant don't really understand that we are a united nation made up of distinct peoples and think scotland is a village up the road from "up north." They think England is an acceptable alternative term to britian or the united kingdom.

Oscar is on a wind up trying to antagonise those with the good fortune not to be born english-you notice she is very quick to highlight her irish ancestry in self defence. Her love affair with gordon brown is worrying and causing many British posters to doubt her sanity. Gordon brown is getting desperate and he's been down south so long he doesn't understand what a pillock we all think he is.

posted by chookie

I will also admit, not for public dissemination, that I actually know the bastard.

Never mind green custard please will you heid the bastard next time you see him. I think I would be hard pushed to be civil if I met him.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:07 am

gmc;1153574 wrote: British is an acceptable generic term for the inhabitants of this island. Gordon brown is the prime minister of britain not of england. If however you were to refer to england when in fact you should have referred to britain or british in your colleagues presence or ask if they were english or british you would very soon be corrected if you were talking to a scot, welsh or irish person. It gets right up our noses. It's like referring to yanks instead of americans when talking to someone from the south. Or asking a canadian if they are american cos they sound like one. If you ask someone from the uk what nationality they are they are you are more likely to get scots welsh or english as an answer than british Curiously enough the only ines that refer to themselves as british tend to be from northern ireland. The term "Brits " is, I believe, one first used in northern ireland over the recent troubles and has entered the lexicon.

The english, especially those from the south of england, being thick skinned and pig ignorant don't really understand that we are a united nation made up of distinct peoples and think scotland is a village up the road from "up north." They think England is an acceptable alternative term to britian or the united kingdom.

Oscar is on a wind up trying to antagonise those with the good fortune not to be born english-you notice she is very quick to highlight her irish ancestry in self defence. Her love affair with gordon brown is worrying and causing many British posters to doubt her sanity. Gordon brown is getting desperate and he's been down south so long he doesn't understand what a pillock we all think he is.

posted by chookie

Never mind green custard please will you heid the bastard next time you see him. I think I would be hard pushed to be civil if I met him.

:yh_youkid:yh_youkid:yh_youkid

You do make me chuckle my bearded Braveheart.

The English Pig Ignorant?????? Says the man who had to get a map out to find West sussex.

Hang On........ I thought Scotland was a village some-where up north :sneaky: I'll find out soon because I'm coming to Scotland for a holiday :yh_rotfl Do i need my passport? :-2

I don't have to use my Irish ancestry in self defence. Infact, my wee yin... it's something that i prefer not to tell folk incase it affects my street cred :yh_rotfl

For the record, i do not have 'A love Affair with Gordon brown'. I wish but i do not. I have a healthy and admirable respect for our leader on account of the fine job he does running this country. :p

Imagine how dull your day would be without me to annoy you? :yh_rotfl

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:31 am

JAB;1153738 wrote: Hopefully there won't be a quiz for me, now that you've all given me a history lesson.

Thanks all!

Lest you think I'm totally a dimwit, I did know that England, Scotland, Wales & Ireland were part of the United Kingdom but didn't know the added "....and Northern Ireland" part until more recently when helping my bossman renew his British passport.

I have made one trip over to the UK but that was almost 20 years ago. Spent most of the time in London tho we did venture to Stonehenge, Bath and a day trip to Cardiff. Would love to go again.

I also worked with a Scotsman during my time at the Beeb and found his accent a bit harder to understand at first but it kinda grew on me after awhile.

And the Irish....ah, who doesn't love them?! :yh_shamrk

Great eh Jab? You ask one question and you get the English, The Scots and the Irish giving you a history lesson :wah:

Thake no notice of the Scots and the Irish. Their dis-pleasure for the English is purely because we have the Government and we have a Scottish man as Prime Minister. They are just jealous that he didn't want to lead the SNP. gmc is still smarting from the trouncing Gordon Brown gave his Party at Glenrothes by-election.

The Irish are smarting...... well simply because they are Irish.

Now, we'll have Braveheart and Dr Gallbladder on with another history lesson.

No sigh of his Chookiness after he offered to bet me that Gordon Brown would lose......... hmmmm

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:47 am

JAB;1153754 wrote: That's OK Oscar, I'll just smile and step back while watching your verbal sparring!

gmc loves me really. He won't admit it but he stalks me in private. He just can't understand why i find Gordon Brown attractive in a disturbing celtic type way when he comes from the same area as GB and is the same age. In fact, gmc even admited in a post that he had got a map to look up where i lived. You will notice that he adds 'Gordon is a moron' in his replys to me in a deliberate attempt to wind me up.

As for Dr Gallstones, well he is an Aston villa fan and if you knew about British Football, it would explain a lot about him. My team Chelsea thrashed his team recently and he's still embaressed. What Gallbladder will not tell you is that he is actually English as he was born in Birmingham, England which is an area where most residents are known as 'The Defendent'. I'm joking of course.

Infact, I am more Irish than Gallbladder as my father and all those who went before him are Irish however i have never felt the need to act like a lunatic on St Patricks day or buy some copper pans.

I am going to Scotland for a holiday this year and i will track down gmc and castrate him.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:42 pm

JAB;1153754 wrote: That's OK Oscar, I'll just smile and step back while watching your verbal sparring!

Oscar is a daily mail reader, which if you were familiar with the rag you would understand why she comes out with all the drivel that she does. We're not really that hard on her as it's difficult to treat a daily mail reader as a normal person-it's a bit like having a puppy that keeps crapping on the floor- It's really annoying but you know they don't understand what they are doing wrong and they look so cute you feel sorry for them . I have a soft spot for oscar-it's a peat bog away up in the far north of scotland.

posted by oscar

I am going to Scotland for a holiday this year and i will track down gmc and castrate him.

Let me know when and I will make sure I am out the country. make sure you visit fife-if gordon's lucky he won't be there either.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:51 pm

gmc;1153790 wrote: Oscar is a daily mail reader, which if you were familiar with the rag you would understand why she comes out with all the drivel that she does. We're not really that hard on her as it's difficult to treat a daily mail reader as a normal person-it's a bit like having a puppy that keeps crapping on the floor- It's really annoying but you know they don't understand what they are doing wrong and they look so cute you feel sorry for them . I have a soft spot for oscar-it's a peat bog away up in the far north of scotland.

posted by oscar

Let me know when and I will make sure I am out the country. make sure you visit fife-if gordon's lucky he won't be there either.

:yh_dance:yh_dance:yh_dance You had to post a reply didn't you? :yh_rotfl

Jab, ignore the Sporran..... The Daily Mail is the most popular newspaper in this country and employs only the finest calibre of research journalists who seek out the truth and print it for us Intellectual English Citizens who live in the real world. The Daily Mail does try to help the celtic's read their paper by adding the occassional photograph of a puppy here and there but frankly, it is lost on them. They can only comprehend drivel penned by some beardy eco nutter who wears cordroy trousers and has leather patches on his elbows.

See i knew it gmc..... you liken me to a cute puppy :yh_rotfl

I will visit Fife while I'm in Scotland because then it will be at least one more time than Gordon Brown has bovvered to look you up :yh_rotfl

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:07 pm

Sometimes I get really angry and just want Scotland and Wales to eff off. Last occasion was when I saw an Aberdeen paper that carried a report of a female student at Aberdeen Uni who got attacked in the street with a broken bottle because she was English. She might keep her eye but will be scarred for life. The English papers did not carry the story.

"No friends south of the Border." Ring any bells? Pathetic.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:10 pm

Clodhopper;1153803 wrote: Sometimes I get really angry and just want Scotland and Wales to eff off. Last occasion was when I saw an Aberdeen paper that carried a report of a female student at Aberdeen Uni who got attacked in the street with a broken bottle because she was English. She might keep her eye but will be scarred for life. The English papers did not carry the story.

"No friends south of the Border." Ring any bells? Pathetic.

And there very swiftly and in astroke of genius Cloddy have you hit the nail on the head for the 'Pro Independent Scotland' Scottish National Party numbskulls.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:22 pm

Oscar, you are being really and truly offensive to Eire. I don't think you meant it that way, but I winced...

The english, especially those from the south of england, being thick skinned and pig ignorant don't really understand that we are a united nation made up of distinct peoples and think scotland is a village up the road from "up north." They think England is an acceptable alternative term to britian or the united kingdom.

At least 40 years out of date. I was brought up thinking of myself as British and English. It took going to St Andrews ( Scottish University) to sort me out on that one. Now I'm English and you note I have the English Flag next to my name, not the British one. Took me 20 years to support Scotland at anything in any way when I left, though I never stooped so low as to support their opponents at sport.

I do occasionally threaten to join the Scottish National Party.

In reality, Scottish and Welsh independence would be a nightmare to achieve - we are totally entangled, legally, militarily, economically and politically. I think it would create a legacy of revived hatred unlike anything these islands have seen for many, many years. I doubt it would be safe for a Scot or a Welshman to cross the border into England.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:28 pm

Clodhopper;1153809 wrote: Oscar, you are being really and truly offensive to Eire. I don't think you meant it that way, but I winced...

At least 40 years out of date. I was brought up thinking of myself as British and English. It took going to St Andrews ( Scottish University) to sort me out on that one. Now I'm English and you note I have the English Flag next to my name, not the British one. Took me 20 years to support Scotland at anything in any way when I left, though I never stooped so low as to support their opponents at sport.

I do occasionally threaten to join the Scottish National Party.

In reality, Scottish and Welsh independence would be a nightmare to achieve - we are totally entangled, legally, militarily, economically and politically. I think it would create a legacy of revived hatred unlike anything these islands have seen for many, many years. I doubt it would be safe for a Scot or a Welshman to cross the border into England. ummmmm Cloddy.... it wasn't me who you have quoted. It was gmc. No probs.... I have often quoted the wrong poster.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:56 pm

Oscar: No, correct quote - that was a separate point to gmc. Just bad posting.

Sorry. Should have pm'd you with this.

Chookie · Post by **Chookie** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:58 pm

oscar;1153332 wrote: This is why britain has two Flags. The Union Jack most commonly seen is the flag of Britain and the four countries. The St george Cross as in my avitar is the flag of England.

Alas poor Oscar. England has the Cross of St George (a totally imaginary person), Northern Irelend has the Cross of St Patrick, Wales has the Draig Goch (Red Dragon) and Scotland has both the Cross of St Andrew and the Lion Rampant. The B.A. is popular only in Loyalist areas of N. I., the south of England and the BNP.

oscar;1153745 wrote: ........... because we have the Government and we have a Scottish man as Prime Minister............

He went to England because he couldn't get a job up here. We expect our workers to be competent.....

oscar;1153745 wrote: No sigh of his Chookiness after he offered to bet me that Gordon Brown would lose........

This may surprise you oscar, but I actually have other things to do........

Regarding the offer I made, were you using English pounds? If so, I will put up the equivalent in Scottish money (that's a hundred of ours to a thousand of yours).

oscar;1153804 wrote: And there very swiftly and in astroke of genius Cloddy have you hit the nail on the head for the 'Pro Independent Scotland' Scottish National Party numbskulls.

Now that is a really comment. Surely you can do better.....

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:32 pm

Chookie;1153832 wrote: Alas poor Oscar. England has the Cross of St George (a totally imaginary person), Northern Irelend has the Cross of St Patrick, Wales has the Draig Goch (Red Dragon) and Scotland has both the Cross of St Andrew and the Lion Rampant. The B.A. is popular only in Loyalist areas of N. I., the south of England and the BNP.

He went to England because he couldn't get a job up here. We expect our workers to be competent.....

This may surprise you oscar, but I actually have other things to do........

Regarding the offer I made, were you using English pounds? If so, I will put up the equivalent in Scottish money (that's a hundred of ours to a thousand of yours).

Now that is a really comment. Surely you can do better..... Thankyou your Chookiness.... Flags were never my strong point i admit.

If Gordon couldn't get a job 'up there' then how do you explain the humiliating results of the Glenrothes by-election?

I only bet on large events maybe two a year. If you have the courage of your convictions, in my humble opinion, there is no point in putting a quid on the result. The whole purpose of gambling cash is to accumulate more cash and as much cash as possible. Rather than put £10 on a horse once a week, i wait for the big events and place my bet then. If you are absolutely convinced that Gordon Brown will lose his seat..... you would have no more to fear than I. I won't except Scottish currency on account of there not being one pub in England that will take it dispite the buyer coming out with the age old adage of 'I think you'll find that's legal tender'. This is not an insult to the Scottish. I also refuse to be paid in £50 notes on account of there not being one shop in Bristol that will accept them.