The fear of Britain's Big Brother state

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:24 pm

EAMONN BUTLER: With recent police activity, anti-terror adverts and CCTV everywhere no wonder we're all scared stiff | Mail Online

Rapunzel · Post by **Rapunzel** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:23 pm

Whilst I agree with this to a certain extent, there ARE 2 sides to every story. I was watching a programme yesterday about police in the streets. One young bobby was just finishing his shift at about 11pm. 2 young asian blokes came up to him and said they had been mugged as 1 of them took money from the cashpoint. The policeman didn't mind that his shift had ended, he simply noted down all the details, then he told the young men that as his shift had finished he was just going to buy himself a kebab and would then go back to the policestation and report the crime before going home. As he walked into the kebab shop the young asian men who'd followed him called him back and said that the chap in front of the policeman in the queue in the kebabshop was in fact the chap who had just mugged them! The policeman knew this young thug and called him out of the kebabshop by name. ("Come here Charlie Harris, I want a word with you.") He questioned Charlie who said he'd been out with mates and was just getting a kebab before going home. The bobby said "Well, these 2 men have just identified you as the one who mugged them earlier, so I'm going to have to take you in for questioning" but he let Charlie buy his kebab first before he put him in the van.

When they got to the van, the bobby asked Charlie to empty his pockets, which he did. He asked Charlie why he had 2 mobile phones on him "One's my girlfriends" and why one of his credit cards had a different name on it (C.J.something) Then he locked him in a small cell in the back of the policevan, but he also gave him his kebab and said "here you are, you can eat this on the way to the policestation" When they got to the policestation he asked Charlie to empty his pockets again and surprise surprise the 2nd mobile phone and the C.J.something credit card had 'disappeared'! The copper checked they hadn't been dumped inside the policevan or hidden inside the now empty kebab box before walking Charlie into the policestation and asking where the missing items were. He was very calm throughout the whole incident and suggested Charlie tell him before he recorded the incident officially. Charlie produced the items (which he'd apparently stolen earlier that evening) from down the back of his trousers! I was immensely impressed by the young bobby's attitude. He was calm, polite and friendly towards the young asian men and towards Charlie, he let Charlie eat as if hungry he would have been more aggressive, he was clever in checking for items before Charlie could hide them and again when he got out of the van, knowing he could have hidden them then and he was firm yet friendly in all his dealings with him. He put Charlie in a cell for the night then checked on the CCTV outside the cashpoint machine where Charlie could clearly be seen punching the young asian chap in the face as he tried to steal his money! He said the evidence was absolutely clear and Charlie eventually got 12 months! I was so impressed by the way he dealt with the whole incident, his calmness, his thoroughness and his attitude. And also the fact that he did his job thoroughly despite having finished his shift. Kudos to him.

We have bright yellow posts with alarm buttons on them in our local town centre. If you press them they alert a local emergency call centre and all the CCTV cameras will swivel towards you. Its good if you feel threatened. There is one by the local kiddies park where all the teenagers hang out at night (there being nothing else for them to do sadly). They came in useful when an old lady collapsed in the street and one press of the emergency button alerted the call centre who immediately called an ambulance for her.

Wherever you give power there are always going to be people who abuse it but there are also 2 sides to every story and I do feel safer because of it if I'm out late at night. Also CCTV tends to be in city centres rather than around by peoples houses and in the suburbs so I don't really see how they could 'watch' peoples houses to see if they really lived there, that would be a waste of time, money and resources.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:21 am

The post about a "bobby" hasn't much to do with the Big Brother State, IMO. I have made another post to the "1984 society" thread, and there may be a few more coming up!

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:47 am

The post about a "bobby" hasn't much to do with the Big Brother State, IMO

Well, given the amount of anti-police stuff we've been seeing recently it's no bad thing to be reminded that, with the police as with so many other groups (including politicians imo) most are good, honest hardworking folk doing their best. It's the tiny minority who give the rest a bad name.

Worth remembering that the much despised EU is investigating the big brother trend in email spotting, in order to protect our right to privacy. They wouldn't be able to if we left the EU.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:01 am

Clodhopper;1175881 wrote: Well, given the amount of anti-police stuff we've been seeing recently it's no bad thing to be reminded that, with the police as with so many other groups (including politicians imo) most are good, honest hardworking folk doing their best. It's the tiny minority who give the rest a bad name.

I regard myself as rather middle-of-the-road, but I must say that I rather distrust the police in general.

Clodhopper;1175881 wrote: Worth remembering that the much despised EU is investigating the big brother trend in email spotting, in order to protect our right to privacy.

What? Investigating? Investigating *what*? *Instigating*, more like it. UK ISPs are required to store communication information for a year under the EU Data Retention Directive. Details of every email, phone call and text message sent or received, such as IP address and time of use (but not content, yet), will have to be recorded.

Clodhopper;1175881 wrote: They wouldn't be able to if we left the EU.

I am unsure why you're trying to de-rail discussion into a pro/con "EU" thread.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:21 am

I am unsure why you're trying to de-rail discussion into a pro/con "EU" thread.

It was just an aside. Why did you respond to it?

Anyway, it's not the holding of data that's the issue, it's the looking at that data. (quite useful to have the data available if trying to track extremist terrorists, for example)

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:27 am

Clodhopper;1175917 wrote: It was just an aside. Why did you respond to it?

To ask the question asked, of course!

Clodhopper;1175917 wrote: Anyway, it's not the holding of data that's the issue, it's the looking at that data. (quite useful to have the data available if trying to track extremist terrorists, for example)

Every Tom, Dick, and Harry will probably be able to access the information. If terrorists think that they're likely to be tracked, I'm quite sure they'll avoid it being collected, by (for instance) using other means of communication, so collected information is actually unlikely to be useful for that purpose. The problem is very much that this information is collection and held. It's the whole issue.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:29 am

Bill Sikes;1175889 wrote: I regard myself as rather middle-of-the-road, but I must say that I rather distrust the police in general.

I won't go into details here Bill as everyone is sick of my story on FG and it's a shame Spot is not here as i'm sure he'd answer your post also. To be very brief, i had the pleasure of having an investigation into my local police by senior cid officers and they ruled in my favour. I have another current investigation going through also but that i can not comment on. All i will say is that the officers from cid in many off the record conversations opened my eyes fully as to what goes on in our police force. To be fair, I can't blame the police fully as i also now understand the pressure they are under to achieve government targets.

However, I sat on local council also for many years and know the kind of petty jobsworth's that would rather fine a pensioner for putting a tin can in the wrong bin than mend street lighting and pot holes in the road.

There is now a proposal under this government to recruit residents to spy. These will be a group of self appointed local residents who will follow you while you walk your dog and if you don't pick his poo up, they will pounce on you. They are proposing the same for 'litter spies' where if you drop a crumb in the street, they will pounce and demand your details so the council can serve a fixed penalty fine on you. I am not making it up.

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:37 am

oscar;1175960 wrote: I won't go into details here Bill as everyone is sick of my story on FG and it's a shame Spot is not here as i'm sure he'd answer your post also. To be very brief, i had the pleasure of having an investigation into my local police by senior cid officers and they ruled in my favour. I have another current investigation going through also but that i can not comment on. All i will say is that the officers from cid in many off the record conversations opened my eyes fully as to what goes on in our police force. To be fair, I can't blame the police fully as i also now understand the pressure they are under to achieve government targets.

However, I sat on local council also for many years and know the kind of petty jobsworth's that would rather fine a pensioner for putting a tin can in the wrong bin than mend street lighting and pot holes in the road.

There is now a proposal under this government to recruit residents to spy. These will be a group of self appointed local residents who will follow you while you walk your dog and if you don't pick his poo up, they will pounce on you. They are proposing the same for 'litter spies' where if you drop a crumb in the street, they will pounce and demand your details so the council can serve a fixed penalty fine on you. I am not making it up.

Oh jeez. Really, a litter spy? I can for trash but food?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:42 am

qsducks;1176070 wrote: Oh jeez. Really, a litter spy? I can for trash but food?

If they put the proposals into practice, I can see assault cases increase. Pretty sure that if i'm out in the street and a stranger not in uniform demands my address, i am not going to give it. What a stupid idea..... but then that's how Britain is getting. :-5

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:48 am

Rapunzel;1175825 wrote: Whilst I agree with this to a certain extent, there ARE 2 sides to every story.

Wherever you give power there are always going to be people who abuse it but there are also 2 sides to every story and I do feel safer because of it if I'm out late at night. Also CCTV tends to be in city centres rather than around by peoples houses and in the suburbs so I don't really see how they could 'watch' peoples houses to see if they really lived there, that would be a waste of time, money and resources. It's all very well having the cctv camera's but it still comes down to the decision of weather plod wants to waste hours sifting through it. Most i've met can't be arssed unless there are credible eye witnessess to testify in court. Much is down to individual councils and what they are willing to spend on the camera's with some councils who won't even consider it due to the expense. A trouble High Street near me finally got camera's up after a lot of campaigning. A young woman was happy slapped by hoodies in broad daylight and when police went for the camera footage, the council had put in such cheap crap, they could not positively ID the one who hit her as the definition was such crap.

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:57 am

oscar;1176074 wrote: If they put the proposals into practice, I can see assault cases increase. Pretty sure that if i'm out in the street and a stranger not in uniform demands my address, i am not going to give it. What a stupid idea..... but then that's how Britain is getting. :-5

I can just see getting busted for throwing orange peels out your car window:wah:

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:46 am

qsducks;1176081 wrote: I can just see getting busted for throwing orange peels out your car window:wah:
There was a case in the newspaper not long ago about a young mum served with a fixed penalty fine because her toddler dropped a fry from his buggy.

I'd love to see one of these spies pounce on me when out with Mulder. Now that would be really funny. That dog may be pint sized but possessive????? WOW :yh_rotfl

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:54 am

oscar;1176102 wrote: There was a case in the newspaper not long ago about a young mum served with a fixed penalty fine because her toddler dropped a fry from his buggy.

I'd love to see one of these spies pounce on me when out with Mulder. Now that would be really funny. That dog may be pint sized but possessive????? WOW :yh_rotfl

That's just nutty. If that kid dropped a fry on the sidewalk here the birds would have thought they died & went to heaven....food!:wah:

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:09 am

qsducks;1176111 wrote:

That's just nutty. If that kid dropped a fry on the sidewalk here the birds would have thought they died & went to heaven....food!:wah: Forget the birds..... I would have had it :yh_rotfl

FUBAR · Post by **FUBAR** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:48 pm

It really does seem sometimes that Britain is getting like Stalinist Russia. Pretty soon every street will have people responsible for reporting what all their neighbours are doing and every floor in each building will have someone sitting at a desk making notes on everyone that goes by. Maybe it is a government make work scheme so that we will all have three government operatives who just follow us around watching.............and watching ............and still there............watching.........and making notes......while they watch........:sneaky::sneaky:

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:53 pm

FUBAR;1176772 wrote: It really does seem sometimes that Britain is getting like Stalinist Russia. Pretty soon every street will have people responsible for reporting what all their neighbours are doing and every floor in each building will have someone sitting at a desk making notes on everyone that goes by. Maybe it is a government make work scheme so that we will all have three government operatives who just follow us around watching.............and watching ............and still there............watching.........and making notes......while they watch........:sneaky::sneaky: There is an article in The Mail today that councils have been snooping on people under the guise of 'The anti-terrorism laws' which is just a blatant mis-use of power. They say they only use it for serious fly tippers etc but it's not what residents say. Now, councils are to be told that they could lose these powers but they are determined to hang on to them. It'll be interesting to watch if they do lose the power to do this.

It's also reported that some councils intend to pay paper boys to spy as well.

I think your right about Stalinist Britain.

FUBAR · Post by **FUBAR** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:09 am

oscar;1176775 wrote: There is an article in The Mail today that councils have been snooping on people under the guise of 'The anti-terrorism laws' which is just a blatant mis-use of power. They say they only use it for serious fly tippers etc but it's not what residents say. Now, councils are to be told that they could lose these powers but they are determined to hang on to them. It'll be interesting to watch if they do lose the power to do this.

It's also reported that some councils intend to pay paper boys to spy as well.

I think your right about Stalinist Britain.

I guess the paperboy will be reporting if you are reading a paper that doesn't support the government and their policies. Maybe they should just come out into the open and be renamed Civil Masters or just Overlords........