what sort of god is allah?

nlwright · Post by **nlwright** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:24 am

in north america the media is rife with islamic terrorists. much quieter are the protests of other muslims claiming that this is not what allah wants. i do not trust the news when it comes to this.

is allah a loving god? a wrathful one? a jealous one?

a little girl in my sons class often tells him of all the atrocities committed by christians against muslims (bombings and the like). she is 7 years old. i presume she got this information from her parents or a religious leader. what is the purpose of teaching such things to a child? the glee with which she says such things to my son is unmistakable. i suppose she assumes we are christian (which we are not). i cannot think of any reason for teaching such things to this girl other than to foster prejudice against those unlike her. surely she is far too young to understand the complexities of such things.

is this what allah wants? or perhaps my case here is an isolated one and the trusted adults in this child's life have been mistaken in their actions.

any thoughts?

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:33 am

nlwright;1177266 wrote: in north america the media is rife with islamic terrorists. much quieter are the protests of other muslims claiming that this is not what allah wants. i do not trust the news when it comes to this.

is allah a loving god? a wrathful one? a jealous one?

a little girl in my sons class often tells him of all the atrocities committed by christians against muslims (bombings and the like). she is 7 years old. i presume she got this information from her parents or a religious leader. what is the purpose of teaching such things to a child? the glee with which she says such things to my son is unmistakable. i suppose she assumes we are christian (which we are not). i cannot think of any reason for teaching such things to this girl other than to foster prejudice against those unlike her. surely she is far too young to understand the complexities of such things.

is this what allah wants? or perhaps my case here is an isolated one and the trusted adults in this child's life have been mistaken in their actions.

any thoughts?

It's unfortunate, but many parents will try to instill in their younger children, hate as well as prejudice against certain groups, by religion, ethnicity or politics. On the other hand, parents will tell children about the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus. Children will grow up to disbelieve the later, but more often than not hang on to the former prejudices.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:07 am

Are not the Muslim God and the Christian God, one and the same ?.

Its not a question of who's God is right and who's is the mightiest. Its about the interpretation of the scriptures. Deception and control by interpretation

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:08 am

nlwright;1177266 wrote: in north america the media is rife with islamic terrorists. much quieter are the protests of other muslims claiming that this is not what allah wants. i do not trust the news when it comes to this.

is allah a loving god? a wrathful one? a jealous one?

a little girl in my sons class often tells him of all the atrocities committed by christians against muslims (bombings and the like). she is 7 years old. i presume she got this information from her parents or a religious leader. what is the purpose of teaching such things to a child? the glee with which she says such things to my son is unmistakable. i suppose she assumes we are christian (which we are not). i cannot think of any reason for teaching such things to this girl other than to foster prejudice against those unlike her. surely she is far too young to understand the complexities of such things.

is this what allah wants? or perhaps my case here is an isolated one and the trusted adults in this child's life have been mistaken in their actions.

any thoughts?

Of course children hear what their parents are saying and take it in.

Have a listen to the bigoted racist claptrap some white Christian children of that age come out with and then come back and tell me it's confined to Muslims.

Better still, go through the main-stream media and look at all of the instances where wrongdoings of Muslims are highlighted just because they're Muslims.

Yes, it happens. Yes, it's wrong - on both sides so why pick out just one?

nlwright · Post by **nlwright** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:24 am

i am sorry for the misinterpretation, bryn mawr, i am not seeking to single out islam. this is a question similar to ones i have posted in other forums. i do ask the same of christians. for the sake of asking in this forum i gave a personal example. i came to ask actual muslims as opposed to relying on the media to tell me the truth or those of other faiths.

you are more than right...the claptrap coming from some christian children is often even worse. but i happen to know more about them than i know about muslims and so i did not want to make assumptions. rather i prefer to have whatever assumptions i have made clarified or corrected.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:33 am

nlwright;1177285 wrote: i am sorry for the misinterpretation, bryn mawr, i am not seeking to single out islam. this is a question similar to ones i have posted in other forums. i do ask the same of christians. for the sake of asking in this forum i gave a personal example. i came to ask actual muslims as opposed to relying on the media to tell me the truth or those of other faiths.

you are more than right...the claptrap coming from some christian children is often even worse. but i happen to know more about them than i know about muslims and so i did not want to make assumptions. rather i prefer to have whatever assumptions i have made clarified or corrected.

Not too many Muslims posting in the Garden at the moment but quite a few who are anti-Islam.

I find the way the media is demonising Islam offensive and therefore tend to be oversensitive to posts which appear to single Muslims out for "crimes" that we are all equally guilty of so sorry for the misunderstanding.

More power to you for trying to see the view from the other side of the fence - if more of us did that there would be far less strife and mistrust.

nlwright · Post by **nlwright** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:21 am

the god of the old testament is wrathful and jealous. the god of the new testament is loving and forgiving. i am curious what kind of god allah is. i am sorry to say that i have never read the koran, and even if i did i am not entirely confident that i could interpret it properly. i figure it is best to ask other muslims.

i really want to know because i do not believe the news. it seems to me that anything positive said about islam is downplayed and the negative sensationalized. i am angry still about the gulf war of the early '90's that demonized the people of iraq, but just turned out to be a feud over oil. bush junior's "war on terror" seemed to me to be an inexcusable farce even before we knew there were no wmds. don't even get me started on the atrocities committed against islamic prisoners of war in the middle east or the detentions at guantanamo bay.

i believe the 9-11 attacks were a terrible tragedy committed by an extremist sect of islam, but probably avoidable given the efficiency of american intelligence agencies. my guess is that it was allowed to happen in order to fuel a war and lend legitimacy to bush junior's administration. but these are all guesses of mine.

imagine if all christians were judged by the actions of adolf hitler? i shudder at the thought and i am not even a christian...

i have heard of parts of the koran justifying the killing of religious enemies. like i said i do not know this...it is merely hearsay. surely there are many parts of the bible that could do the same or even worse.

perhaps you can enlighten me?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:41 am

nlwright;1177578 wrote: the god of the old testament is wrathful and jealous. the god of the new testament is loving and forgiving. i am curious what kind of god allah is. i am sorry to say that i have never read the koran, and even if i did i am not entirely confident that i could interpret it properly. i figure it is best to ask other muslims.

i really want to know because i do not believe the news. it seems to me that anything positive said about islam is downplayed and the negative sensationalized. i am angry still about the gulf war of the early '90's that demonized the people of iraq, but just turned out to be a feud over oil. bush junior's "war on terror" seemed to me to be an inexcusable farce even before we knew there were no wmds. don't even get me started on the atrocities committed against islamic prisoners of war in the middle east or the detentions at guantanamo bay.

i believe the 9-11 attacks were a terrible tragedy committed by an extremist sect of islam, but probably avoidable given the efficiency of american intelligence agencies. my guess is that it was allowed to happen in order to fuel a war and lend legitimacy to bush junior's administration. but these are all guesses of mine.

imagine if all christians were judged by the actions of adolf hitler? i shudder at the thought and i am not even a christian...

i have heard of parts of the koran justifying the killing of religious enemies. like i said i do not know this...it is merely hearsay. surely there are many parts of the bible that could do the same or even worse.

perhaps you can enlighten me? From what you have written, you sound muslim to me.....am i right?

I have always said that 9/11 occurred due to lax air-port security and a complacent President. I have also said many times on this forum that the pilots in the 9/11 planes were Saudi and not Iraqi or Afghan. Bush gave Afghan 3 weeks to hand over Bin Laden. British and US troops are still there 5 years later and no capture.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:01 am

Snowfire;1177280 wrote: Are not the Muslim God and the Christian God, one and the same ?.

Its not a question of who's God is right and who's is the mightiest. Its about the interpretation of the scriptures. Deception and control by interpretation

Exactly what I was going to say.........

nlwright · Post by **nlwright** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:53 am

oscar, i am flattered that by my statements you have guessed that i am muslim. i am not. in fact i am not affiliated with any religion whatsoever at the moment but am endeavoring to learn about them all.

the reason why i am flattered is that i am a humanist. i have deep empathy for all people regardless of their background. i try to put myself in the other person's shoes. apparently i have done this so successfully that you perceive me to be one of you (and now i shall assume you are muslim). i consider that to be high praise, thank you!:D

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:29 am

nlwright;1177266 wrote: in north america the media is rife with islamic terrorists. much quieter are the protests of other muslims claiming that this is not what allah wants. i do not trust the news when it comes to this.

is allah a loving god? a wrathful one? a jealous one?

a little girl in my sons class often tells him of all the atrocities committed by christians against muslims (bombings and the like). she is 7 years old. i presume she got this information from her parents or a religious leader. what is the purpose of teaching such things to a child? the glee with which she says such things to my son is unmistakable. i suppose she assumes we are christian (which we are not). i cannot think of any reason for teaching such things to this girl other than to foster prejudice against those unlike her. surely she is far too young to understand the complexities of such things.

is this what allah wants? or perhaps my case here is an isolated one and the trusted adults in this child's life have been mistaken in their actions.

any thoughts?

If you are a monotheist it must be the same one as the Christian god unless you believe there are really at least two in which case all the muslim christian wars make perfect sense. That leaves you with a problem about all the catholic/protestant wars since they were ostensibly about what is the right way to worship the christian god. On the other hand if you suggest it is all a load of bunkum then you have all sides wanting to slaughter you for heresy.

There is no god only the cosmic comedian who has a really warped sense of humour. Life is a joke we just don't get the punchline.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:46 am

nlwright;1177709 wrote: oscar, i am flattered that by my statements you have guessed that i am muslim. i am not. in fact i am not affiliated with any religion whatsoever at the moment but am endeavoring to learn about them all.

the reason why i am flattered is that i am a humanist. i have deep empathy for all people regardless of their background. i try to put myself in the other person's shoes. apparently i have done this so successfully that you perceive me to be one of you (and now i shall assume you are muslim). i consider that to be high praise, thank you!:D
I'm getting the feeling that your post is sarcasm however, incase it is mis-understood, No, I am not muslim. When you say ' i have deep empathy for all people regardless of their background'.... does this mean you feel superior in some way to those with what you may see as inferior back-grounds?

Richard Bell · Post by **Richard Bell** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:36 am

nlwright;1177709 wrote: in fact i am not affiliated with any religion whatsoever at the moment but am endeavoring to learn about them all.

the reason why i am flattered is that i am a humanist. i have deep empathy for all people regardless of their background. i try to put myself in the other person's shoes.

So, then why bother with a lot of outlandish, ancient mumbo jumbo created by early cultures who had no concept of the sciences, let alone fairness and equality ?

Sounds like you're doing just fine without all the artifice of religion.

nlwright · Post by **nlwright** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:46 pm

no oscar, i try not to use sarcasm because it often doesn't carry over well in writing.

in my political studies i learned that the gulf war was actually a fight over oil. my professor explained that the u.s. siding with kuwait was much more self-serving than humanitarian. it was claimed that iraq invaded kuwait with no provocation.

however, kuwait used a "slant drill" to get at an oil field that was not technically in their territory which indicates to me flaws on both sides (war is rarely uncomplicated). i remember all the sensationalist news at the time vilifying the iraqi people etc. ostensibly the u.s. got involved for humanitarian reasons. it has been suggested to me however that the u.s. government stood to gain in terms of lower oil prices because kuwait had inflated the market counter to opec quotas.

if the news media can misrepresent in this matter, then i do not trust it to accurately represent the events of 9-11. it felt much more like propoganda. so i see the people of those countries as human beings. as human beings it is only too natural to be resentful of the treatment that can be expected when foreign soldiers invade your country. i ask myself how i would feel if i lived in a war torn country? what if my child were blown up in a bombing? what if i lost my home? my husband?

i imagine there are good reasons these people have for being upset. wasn't the blame laid falsely on iraq? weren't they accused of having the wmds? if my country was treated in this way i might be upset, too.

anyway, my empathy does not come from a sense of superiority. it comes from trying to understand someone who is probably different from, not better nor worse than myself except that s/he is human.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:51 pm

nlwright;1178488 wrote:

i imagine there are good reasons these people have for being upset. wasn't the blame laid falsely on iraq? weren't they accused of having the wmds? if my country was treated in this way i might be upset, too.

anyway, my empathy does not come from a sense of superiority. it comes from trying to understand someone who is probably different from, not better nor worse than myself except that s/he is human.

The British Government under Tony Blair told the British people that Iraq had wmd. Blair now admits that there is no evidence of that. You will find very few British people who support the invasion of Iraq or Afghan.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:38 pm

oscar;1178520 wrote: The British Government under Tony Blair told the British people that Iraq had wmd. Blair now admits that there is no evidence of that. You will find very few British people who support the invasion of Iraq or Afghan.

There were very few who supported Iraq before it happened - Afghanistan happened too quickly and too soon after 9/11 for the people to work it out but by the time Iraq came round the population was split - those still frightened by the government scare tactics and those who could see the lies for what they were.

Even amongst those still believing the stories of WMDs and attack, many were saying that the invasion was wrong.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:22 pm

Christian nations have dropped bombs on Islam nations and killed innocent men women and children. Theyre stating a fact.

Tolerance comes when you understand and respect individuals or nations of individuals have a right to their own perceptions.

Their culture being quite different from ours its important to remember we are all not alike. Our teachings are as varied as there are nations in the world.

It would be pompous and antagonistic to assume otherwise.

Think back to 9/11 and the overwhelming mass hysteria towards Islam which I assume many of us really know very little about.

Christian faith teaches us to turn the other cheek and to love our neighbors yet 8 yrs later we find ourselves in a quagmire bigger than what existed before we attacked nations yet the perpetrators were and still are a minute portion of the population.

I also think its beneficial to take for granted you dont know what it means to be a citizen of an Islam nation just as Im sure many of Islamic citizens have a fragmented view of Christian nations.

We have extreme factions in this country. Jew haters and white supremecists, survivalists, citizens that blow up abortion clinics and plant bombs at the Atlanta Olympics. Were not pure by any means.

As a whole I believe we are decent, as a whole I believe Islam nations are decent, and Hindu nations.

Unfortunately tolerance is in short supply causing our perceptions to become confused by extremist actions.

Post by **Sunshine** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:39 pm

Snowfire;1177280 wrote: Are not the Muslim God and the Christian God, one and the same ?.

Its not a question of who's God is right and who's is the mightiest. Its about the interpretation of the scriptures. Deception and control by interpretation
Exactly. It is all in the way the scriptures are interprepeted. I hardly believe that there is any quote in the torra that stated that all other world peoples ( those not of Muslim faith) need to be killed. If that were the case, we would be in a flat out holy war world wide right now.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:20 am

Religion is the invention of the devil to keep mankind from the true nature of god. Don't know who said it and it's valid only of you believe in god in the first place.

Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God." - Martin Luther

The real tragedy of the world is that so many look to those who interpret the word to tell them what is moral and what is not. They are trained not to think for themselves-reason being the enemy of religion- not of god perhaps but most definitely of religion.

You have to be taught to hate and fear and we start early with the myth that the god of islam and the god of the Christians are not the same and any child asking the obvious question that if there is only one god how can there be one for islam and and one for Christianity very soon learns not to ask such stupid questions.

Like what sort of god is allah. How many sorts can there be if there is only one god? Now if christians, jews, muslims would stop trying to kill each other to prove whose god is superior the wold would be a better place.