Kathy Ellen;1210325 wrote: Oh, OpenMind:-4,
I'm sorry that you're feeling this way. I feel the same about my country at times. Certain groups of people here are treated better than the everyday Joe who works their tail off each and everyday.
You are not white trash...don't say that please. Our economy is very bad these last few years and most of us are suffering terribly.
"You take the day for what's it worth and do the best you can."
I'm gonna cyber over to the UK and beat your butt if I hear anymore talk like this:D:rolleyes: I mean it:driving:
Thanks Kath. Sometimes I just need to give someone a hug for old hug's sake. Can I just give you a hug?
Burqas are not welcome in France.
-
Kathy Ellen
- Posts: 10569
- Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:04 pm
Burqas are not welcome in France.
OpenMind;1210331 wrote: Thanks Kath. Sometimes I just need to give someone a hug for old hug's sake. Can I just give you a hug?
((((((((((((((HUGS TO OPENMIND))))))))))))))))))))
You can always give me a hug OpenMind.....You're a good man with a good heart and lots of talent. Put the burden on the state of our economy, not yourself. We just have to keep our chin up, talk to our mates, and try to be positive. If we lose our hope then we're doomed:(
Stay strong my friend:-4
((((((((((((((HUGS TO OPENMIND))))))))))))))))))))
You can always give me a hug OpenMind.....You're a good man with a good heart and lots of talent. Put the burden on the state of our economy, not yourself. We just have to keep our chin up, talk to our mates, and try to be positive. If we lose our hope then we're doomed:(
Stay strong my friend:-4
Burqas are not welcome in France.
Nomad;1208233 wrote: I dont see how Dr. Here at least many different cultures have settled. Theyve come in droves and established communities. Russians, Somalis, Mexicans etc. For some theyve been here for decades and their children have children, their culture is alive and well as witnessed by the shops and churches, community centers. New York has Little Italy, LA has Chinatown.
In my town Little Somalia used to be a college hang out with retro theatres, head shops and music stores. Now its falafala, burqas and moques everywhere.
Theyre not going anywhere and as long as I can drive through my old stomping grounds and still consider myself a part of their community as theyve made themselves a part of our community its okee dokee with me.
I don't doubt it works in the US, but Ireland is not the USA, its entirely different, for a start its a tiny island, that is the homeland of the Irish people, its not a multi-ethic continent held together by a political philosophy as opposed to a unifying national ethnicity. What keeps American together is the concept that all Americans believe in their political and economic philosophy regardless of who they are, what keeps Ireland together is the fact that we are all Irish and thats our essential identity.
The United States was founded as a Nation of diverse European immigrants, its founding principal was that of creating a new type of immigrant society that would accept all, as long as they adhered to the concept of the New American Republic. Ireland or France, or Scotland, or Spain on the other hand are the national homelands of their respective peoples.
They are by definition "Nation States" a state representing the territory and ethnic and cultural identity of a nation of people. In recent decades though many European's have become deluded into thinking that you can apply the same rules to their small Nation states (i.e Britain) as you can to a continental-sized immigrant colony such as the USA. Which is probably why we are where we are now.
In my town Little Somalia used to be a college hang out with retro theatres, head shops and music stores. Now its falafala, burqas and moques everywhere.
Theyre not going anywhere and as long as I can drive through my old stomping grounds and still consider myself a part of their community as theyve made themselves a part of our community its okee dokee with me.
I don't doubt it works in the US, but Ireland is not the USA, its entirely different, for a start its a tiny island, that is the homeland of the Irish people, its not a multi-ethic continent held together by a political philosophy as opposed to a unifying national ethnicity. What keeps American together is the concept that all Americans believe in their political and economic philosophy regardless of who they are, what keeps Ireland together is the fact that we are all Irish and thats our essential identity.
The United States was founded as a Nation of diverse European immigrants, its founding principal was that of creating a new type of immigrant society that would accept all, as long as they adhered to the concept of the New American Republic. Ireland or France, or Scotland, or Spain on the other hand are the national homelands of their respective peoples.
They are by definition "Nation States" a state representing the territory and ethnic and cultural identity of a nation of people. In recent decades though many European's have become deluded into thinking that you can apply the same rules to their small Nation states (i.e Britain) as you can to a continental-sized immigrant colony such as the USA. Which is probably why we are where we are now.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Burqas are not welcome in France.
Kathy Ellen;1210349 wrote: ((((((((((((((HUGS TO OPENMIND))))))))))))))))))))
You can always give me a hug OpenMind.....You're a good man with a good heart and lots of talent. Put the burden on the state of our economy, not yourself. We just have to keep our chin up, talk to our mates, and try to be positive. If we lose our hope then we're doomed:(
Stay strong my friend:-4
Oh, Kath. It's got nothing to do with the economy or anything like that. I just feel so darned worn out. I'm no where near getting my place sorted yet. There's so much to be done. The landlord has done nothing yet of what he said he would do, important mail has gone missing, and there's nothing I can do.
I don't even have a drinking partner in Leeds.
C'est la vie.
You can always give me a hug OpenMind.....You're a good man with a good heart and lots of talent. Put the burden on the state of our economy, not yourself. We just have to keep our chin up, talk to our mates, and try to be positive. If we lose our hope then we're doomed:(
Stay strong my friend:-4
Oh, Kath. It's got nothing to do with the economy or anything like that. I just feel so darned worn out. I'm no where near getting my place sorted yet. There's so much to be done. The landlord has done nothing yet of what he said he would do, important mail has gone missing, and there's nothing I can do.
I don't even have a drinking partner in Leeds.
C'est la vie.
Burqas are not welcome in France.
Galbally;1210368 wrote: I don't doubt it works in the US, but Ireland is not the USA, its entirely different, for a start its a tiny island, that is the homeland of the Irish people, its not a multi-ethic continent held together by a political philosophy as opposed to a unifying national ethnicity. What keeps American together is the concept that all Americans believe in their political and economic philosophy regardless of who they are, what keeps Ireland together is the fact that we are all Irish and thats our essential identity.
The United States was founded as a Nation of diverse European immigrants, its founding principal was that of creating a new type of immigrant society that would accept all, as long as they adhered to the concept of the New American Republic. Ireland or France, or Scotland, or Spain on the other hand are the national homelands of their respective peoples.
They are by definition "Nation States" a state representing the territory and ethnic and cultural identity of a nation of people. In recent decades though many European's have become deluded into thinking that you can apply the same rules to their small Nation states (i.e Britain) as you can to a continental-sized immigrant colony such as the USA. Which is probably why we are where we are now.
I'm not sure how Australia fits in here. We weren't a nation state. We had an aboriginal population then a British / Irish population, with encouraged migration from Europe - keeping some kind of homogeneity. Integration was the buzz word and Italians, Greeks, etc were absorbed within a generation or so. Then we decided it was more enlightened to invite people here and invite them to bring with them not just their cultural roots, but their political fights, their religious intolerances, their tribal customs (like genitally mutilating their daughters) and we told them they didn't need to try and learn English etc. And here we are now ...
I think this political viewpoint was a mega mistake. The mistake was not that we took into this country people who were not European, not Christian, not pinky white. The mistake was that we undervalued our country, our citizenship. It's a very Aussie thing. To be self deprecating. Americans are not. They at least insist all their inhabitants are proudly American first. All Australians should be encouraged to be proudly Australian first, to know what being Aussie is, to value it, to want to become citizens and fully join in the community - not just going on fully in the old way, turning Australia into little Baghdad, little Korea, little Lebanon etc.
Maybe Australia's biggest identity crisis though has nothing at all to do with burka clad women in areas where everything is written in Arabic. Most of the area where I live is now Asian. You do see a few non-Asians about but whether it's at the local schools, in the supermarket, at the swimming pool, in the office - we're swamped. Sigh... ah well... the great big melting pot.
There have always been mass migrations... Maybe one day soon all Europe will be African muslim or subcontinental. Maybe all North America will be Spanish speaking. Maybe Australia will be fully Chinese.
The United States was founded as a Nation of diverse European immigrants, its founding principal was that of creating a new type of immigrant society that would accept all, as long as they adhered to the concept of the New American Republic. Ireland or France, or Scotland, or Spain on the other hand are the national homelands of their respective peoples.
They are by definition "Nation States" a state representing the territory and ethnic and cultural identity of a nation of people. In recent decades though many European's have become deluded into thinking that you can apply the same rules to their small Nation states (i.e Britain) as you can to a continental-sized immigrant colony such as the USA. Which is probably why we are where we are now.
I'm not sure how Australia fits in here. We weren't a nation state. We had an aboriginal population then a British / Irish population, with encouraged migration from Europe - keeping some kind of homogeneity. Integration was the buzz word and Italians, Greeks, etc were absorbed within a generation or so. Then we decided it was more enlightened to invite people here and invite them to bring with them not just their cultural roots, but their political fights, their religious intolerances, their tribal customs (like genitally mutilating their daughters) and we told them they didn't need to try and learn English etc. And here we are now ...
I think this political viewpoint was a mega mistake. The mistake was not that we took into this country people who were not European, not Christian, not pinky white. The mistake was that we undervalued our country, our citizenship. It's a very Aussie thing. To be self deprecating. Americans are not. They at least insist all their inhabitants are proudly American first. All Australians should be encouraged to be proudly Australian first, to know what being Aussie is, to value it, to want to become citizens and fully join in the community - not just going on fully in the old way, turning Australia into little Baghdad, little Korea, little Lebanon etc.
Maybe Australia's biggest identity crisis though has nothing at all to do with burka clad women in areas where everything is written in Arabic. Most of the area where I live is now Asian. You do see a few non-Asians about but whether it's at the local schools, in the supermarket, at the swimming pool, in the office - we're swamped. Sigh... ah well... the great big melting pot.
There have always been mass migrations... Maybe one day soon all Europe will be African muslim or subcontinental. Maybe all North America will be Spanish speaking. Maybe Australia will be fully Chinese.
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"
Burqas are not welcome in France.
AussiePam;1210392 wrote: I'm not sure how Australia fits in here. We weren't a nation state. We had an aboriginal population then a British / Irish population, with encouraged migration from Europe - keeping some kind of homogeneity. Integration was the buzz word and Italians, Greeks, etc were absorbed within a generation or so. Then we decided it was more enlightened to invite people here and invite them to bring with them not just their cultural roots, but their political fights, their religious intolerances, their tribal customs (like genitally mutilating their daughters) and we told them they didn't need to try and learn English etc. And here we are now ...
I think this political viewpoint was a mega mistake. The mistake was not that we took into this country people who were not European, not Christian, not pinky white. The mistake was that we undervalued our country, our citizenship. It's a very Aussie thing. To be self deprecating. Americans are not. They at least insist all their inhabitants are proudly American first. All Australians should be encouraged to be proudly Australian first, to know what being Aussie is, to value it, to want to become citizens and fully join in the community - not just going on fully in the old way, turning Australia into little Baghdad, little Korea, little Lebanon etc.
Maybe Australia's biggest identity crisis though has nothing at all to do with burka clad women in areas where everything is written in Arabic. Most of the area where I live is now Asian. You do see a few non-Asians about but whether it's at the local schools, in the supermarket, at the swimming pool, in the office - we're swamped. Sigh... ah well... the great big melting pot.
There have always been mass migrations... Maybe one day soon all Europe will be African muslim or subcontinental. Maybe all North America will be Spanish speaking. Maybe Australia will be fully Chinese.
Excellent point Pam, and it fits us too. The English are also self deprecating and we have also invited multi-culturalism in. We now joke that places like Bradford are the capital of Pakistan. Our newspapers tell of people who come to our country knowing words such as 'Home' and 'Money' and thats what they get. There was a job in our newspaper the other day for someone to work with black people. To help them find jobs or college courses and to help them claim benefits. To make sure they needed for nothing. But the indigenous white folk, although also mixed race because we are all part Celt or Saxon or Norman (there being very few true Brits left in the UK), are left to figure it all out for themselves. You also see big charity drives to help people in the Sudan or in the Congo but then you hear in the news that St. Dunstans (a place for blind elderly British people who fought in the war for us) are barely surviving on food donations and have no money to run their homes.
I'm not saying we shouldn't help others but we always seem to forsake our own citizens in order to help our ethnic brethren. We should help our own equally, not less.
I think this political viewpoint was a mega mistake. The mistake was not that we took into this country people who were not European, not Christian, not pinky white. The mistake was that we undervalued our country, our citizenship. It's a very Aussie thing. To be self deprecating. Americans are not. They at least insist all their inhabitants are proudly American first. All Australians should be encouraged to be proudly Australian first, to know what being Aussie is, to value it, to want to become citizens and fully join in the community - not just going on fully in the old way, turning Australia into little Baghdad, little Korea, little Lebanon etc.
Maybe Australia's biggest identity crisis though has nothing at all to do with burka clad women in areas where everything is written in Arabic. Most of the area where I live is now Asian. You do see a few non-Asians about but whether it's at the local schools, in the supermarket, at the swimming pool, in the office - we're swamped. Sigh... ah well... the great big melting pot.
There have always been mass migrations... Maybe one day soon all Europe will be African muslim or subcontinental. Maybe all North America will be Spanish speaking. Maybe Australia will be fully Chinese.
Excellent point Pam, and it fits us too. The English are also self deprecating and we have also invited multi-culturalism in. We now joke that places like Bradford are the capital of Pakistan. Our newspapers tell of people who come to our country knowing words such as 'Home' and 'Money' and thats what they get. There was a job in our newspaper the other day for someone to work with black people. To help them find jobs or college courses and to help them claim benefits. To make sure they needed for nothing. But the indigenous white folk, although also mixed race because we are all part Celt or Saxon or Norman (there being very few true Brits left in the UK), are left to figure it all out for themselves. You also see big charity drives to help people in the Sudan or in the Congo but then you hear in the news that St. Dunstans (a place for blind elderly British people who fought in the war for us) are barely surviving on food donations and have no money to run their homes.
I'm not saying we shouldn't help others but we always seem to forsake our own citizens in order to help our ethnic brethren. We should help our own equally, not less.
Burqas are not welcome in France.
My family is working hard to assimilate, Rapunzel. My kids all did a year's Japanese, so did I. My son is now learning Chinese. I'm a member of an Asian book club so I can learn to be more culturally sensitive. I know how to bargain in the fish, fruit, vegetable etc markets. I cook Asian food more than half the time. For lunch we mainly eat sushi or noodles. When I need to go to areas of Sydney where islamic culture is dominant, I'm seriously considering wearing a headscarf.
I am kind of ashamed now to be pale skinned and blonde. I feel I stand out a bit. I felt discriminated against at my dentist - where I was the only European among staff and apparently clientele, and think I got charged more on that account. I've since changed dentists, but it was quite hard to find one who I could be sure would understand me when I spoke English. But it's my fault. I'd go back to where I originally came from, only it isn't there any more.
I am kind of ashamed now to be pale skinned and blonde. I feel I stand out a bit. I felt discriminated against at my dentist - where I was the only European among staff and apparently clientele, and think I got charged more on that account. I've since changed dentists, but it was quite hard to find one who I could be sure would understand me when I spoke English. But it's my fault. I'd go back to where I originally came from, only it isn't there any more.
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"
Burqas are not welcome in France.
AussiePam;1210408 wrote: I am kind of ashamed now to be pale skinned and blonde. I feel I stand out a bit. I felt discriminated against at my dentist - where I was the only European among staff and apparently clientele, and think I got charged more on that account. I've since changed dentists, but it was quite hard to find one who I could be sure would understand me when I spoke English. But it's my fault. I'd go back to where I originally came from, only it isn't there any more.
That is sad Pam. And a crying shame that our governments are so desperate to be seen as multi-cultural that they forget their own nationality and heritage. For instance, we now allow muslim children to wear traditional native dress (including headscarves) to school instead of our school uniforms and we also allow schools that are purely for a certain religion eg., muslim schools or jewish schools, etc. Meanwhile, many Church of England schools have been told to ban the saying of prayers because other cultures find it offensive! In our school we have assemblies in the local church and have to have written permission from the parents of non-english children to permit their children to enter the Church for worship. Even though it's only an assembly, not really worship as such. (Our school hall is only big enough for all the kids and teachers, so we have to use the local church for assemblies which parents are invited to attend.)
If we lived in their countries we would have to obey their dress codes, their school codes, their drinking laws and all other laws. If they were made to obey our laws they would be far more integrated than they currently are.
English-speaking people in London, who need council housing, are relocated to Birmingham - 126 miles away! Even though they are leaving behind all their friends and family. But people who only speak Bangladeshi or Punjabi or whatever, are relocated within London, near to other people who speak their own language. It wouldn't be so bad if we were all treated equally and fairly, but the government are so keen to appear modern and multi-cultural that they seem to favour all immigrants (legal or not) over all indigenous folks. :-5
That is sad Pam. And a crying shame that our governments are so desperate to be seen as multi-cultural that they forget their own nationality and heritage. For instance, we now allow muslim children to wear traditional native dress (including headscarves) to school instead of our school uniforms and we also allow schools that are purely for a certain religion eg., muslim schools or jewish schools, etc. Meanwhile, many Church of England schools have been told to ban the saying of prayers because other cultures find it offensive! In our school we have assemblies in the local church and have to have written permission from the parents of non-english children to permit their children to enter the Church for worship. Even though it's only an assembly, not really worship as such. (Our school hall is only big enough for all the kids and teachers, so we have to use the local church for assemblies which parents are invited to attend.)
If we lived in their countries we would have to obey their dress codes, their school codes, their drinking laws and all other laws. If they were made to obey our laws they would be far more integrated than they currently are.
English-speaking people in London, who need council housing, are relocated to Birmingham - 126 miles away! Even though they are leaving behind all their friends and family. But people who only speak Bangladeshi or Punjabi or whatever, are relocated within London, near to other people who speak their own language. It wouldn't be so bad if we were all treated equally and fairly, but the government are so keen to appear modern and multi-cultural that they seem to favour all immigrants (legal or not) over all indigenous folks. :-5
Burqas are not welcome in France.
Indeed Rapunzel !!! Hang on, the muezzin is calling us to prayer and I gotta go get purified.. Zai Jain (goodbye in Chinese, my keyboard doesn't yet do chinese characters) :sneaky:
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"