Margerine or butter?

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:19 pm

Lets see. Margerine is one chemical step away from 'plastic. If you were to leave butter and margerine outside ants and insects would devour the butter and leave margerine totally alone.......what's that say?

Butter is a natural substance, calcium rich, dairy product used for a millenia.

Danger of margarine

Q:I have Dr Leo Galland's fascinating book Allergy Prevention for Kids in which he recommends linoleic acid (and linolenic acid) as particularly important to health, provided certain key co-factors are also present in the diet.

This seems to contradict the article (in WDDTY vol 5 no 4 ) on margarine which says that Professor Raymond Kearney of Sydney University stated in 1987 that vegetable oils, rich in linoleic acid, were "potent promoters" of tumour growth. You also quoted two studies from 1991 confirming that linoleic acid increases the likelihood of developing breast cancer.

There must be many other readers, like myself, who feel confused by these apparent contradictions. Could you possibly ask Dr Galland to give a response to this? Also can you explain whether a margarine such as Vitaquel, which has no hydrogenated vegetable oils, is also dangerous? My children and I are allergic to dairy products so I need to know the healthiest alternative to butter. D F, Oxon.

A:Lately, everybody is getting in on the butter vs margarine debate without shedding much light on the subject. After decades of government exhortation to consume more margarine to prevent heart attacks, most consumers are understandably left shaken by the recent revelations about the dangers of margarine.

The problem is not so much polyunsaturated oils per se; soy and safflower oils, after all, are rich in omega-6 fatty acids, which are essential to human health. The problem begins when they are heated, processed or otherwise tampered with.

According to our panelist Leo Galland, these oils present problems when they are overly refined. "Most commercial oils are extracted with extra heat added to enhance the extraction process," he writes. "This can create high temperatures, which damage the EFAs." Most refined oils are then further refined with solvents, using hexane-petrol to produce a lighter colour, taste and clarity, and even bleached, which removes many of the EFAs, trace minerals and vitamins, including antioxidants. Although all extraction processes generate heat to some degree, damaging some EFAs, those with the most nutrients left in are unrefined and coldpressed.

The second problem with polyunsaturates occurs when they are heated, particularly in a frying pan. These fatty acids can be easily damaged by heat. The oxidation caused by these heat-damaged oils creates free radicals in the body, damaging cell membranes and dramatically increasing your need for vitamins and minerals. This process has been implicated in cancer, hardening of the arteries and other degenerative diseases.

But the biggest threat to human health appears to be the manufacturing process of hydrogenation (or partial hydrogenation), done to prolong the shelf life of products. This is performed by heating up the oil to a high temperature and sending hydrogen through it. Dr George V Mann, in a recent review article hypothesizing about the likely role of partially hydrogenated foods and disease (The Lancet, 21 May 1994), explained that hydrogenation began after 1912, so that polyunsaturated fats could compete with butter and lard. During hydrogenation, trans fatty acids are produced; these artificial unsaturated fatty acids have a different molecular structure to those found in the tissues of humans and other mammals. "The amounts of TFA in commercial products vary from

5 per cent to as much as 75 per cent in the total fat," writes Dr Mann, particularly as neither America nor Britain requires that manufacturers state the amount of hydrogenated fat, only its presence. These substances can have a "disastrous" effect on your body's ability to use EFAs, says Dr Galland. They are even worse when heated, turning into something akin to the polymers in plastic.

Dr Mann argues that lipoprotein receptors in cells are impaired by TFAs. Since the body cannot process cholesterol-bearing low-density lipoproteins, the cells crank up their rate of synthesizing cholesterol, eventually leading to high levels in the blood. The amount of TFAs deposited in the body fat tissues reflects dietary intake. One study in Wales showed a strong association between TFA content in body fat and death from cardiovascular disease (Br J Preven Soc Med, 1975; 29: 82-90). In other studies, says Mann, blood cholesterol quickly increased in people fed TFAs (J Lipid Res 1992; 33: 399-410). He notes that coronary heart disease is high in northern European countries, where consumption of TFA is high, and low in the Mediterranean countries where the main dietary fat is olive oil and TFA intake is low.

There may also be another issue here. In his own studies of the African Maasai, young men consistently had low cholesterol concentrations, even though their diets were high in saturated fats, mainly from milk and beef. Dr Mann concluded that the Maasai, who got about 4-7g TFAs from cow milk, were below the threshold of where impairment of fat metabolism occurs. In America, the average daily intake of TFA is 12-20g daily. Or the story could be more complicated. Maasai could be protected because they are eating whole foods albeit containing saturated fats and not the adulterated ones consumed by most people in the West.

The bottom line is that researchers are only beginning to get to grips with the dangers of trans fatty acids. Until we are enlightened further, Dr Galland and others advise that you follow a number of basic principles. Cook with small amounts of olive oil. Although it contains non-essential fatty acids, it doesn't break down during storage or cooking to create substances that harm EFAs in your body. It also has been demonstrated in numerous studies to lower blood cholesterol and risk of heart disease.

As much as possible, eat whole foods and eschew anything that has been hydrogenated, processed or in any way interfered with. This would include most processed baked goods, canned sauces, commercial peanut butter, candy, "cheese" foods, crisps and corn chips. Small amounts of

margarine like Vitaquel, which are not hydrogenerated, may be okay as long as you don't cook with it.

Finally, look to getting your EFAs from oils that are not used in heating. This includes beans (soy, kidney and haricot beans, freshly soaked and cooked), salad oils loke safflower and sunflower oil, fatty fish, walnuts and linseed. Or take supplements like linseed oil (not heated), fish oils for omega-3 fatty acids and either evening primrose oil or blackcurrent seed oil for omega-6 EFAs

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:22 pm

butter......always

Rapunzel · Post by **Rapunzel** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:31 pm

fuzzywuzzy;1222014 wrote: Lets see. Margerine is one chemical step away from 'plastic. If you were to leave butter and margerine outside ants and insects would devour the butter and leave margerine totally alone.......what's that say?

I've heard this before. Also that margarine is so plastic it won't go mouldy. Well, I've had margarine go mouldy when left out in the heat, so that puts paid to that theory. :wah:

Margarine was originally touted as being better for your heart, but that was before people understood about LDL and HDL lipids. The first margarines were often made from transfats and were frequently worse for your heart than butter. However we now have a better understanding of lipids and so margarines are generally now more heart-healthy.

Butter vs. margarine: Which is better for my heart? - MayoClinic.com

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:32 pm

It's not the margerine that goes mouldy. It's the tiny organisms left in the margerine from bread or other foods from the knife.

Heart healthy but will kill you with cancer

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:34 pm

I really prefer this product to butter and nutritionally it's OK. Probably not available in Oz.

It's 60% vegetable oil and sweet cream buttermilk.

Attached files

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:36 pm

Lon;1222036 wrote: I really prefer this product to butter and nutritionally it's OK. Probably not available in Oz.

tried that.......not for me.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:36 pm

The only substitute for butter we would ever have in our house is an italian Olive oil based one.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:37 pm

Rapunzel;1222033 wrote: I've heard this before. Also that margarine is so plastic it won't go mouldy. Well, I've had margarine go mouldy when left out in the heat, so that puts paid to that theory. :wah:

Margarine was originally touted as being better for your heart, but that was before people understood about LDL and HDL lipids. The first margarines were often made from transfats and were frequently worse for your heart than butter. However we now have a better understanding of lipids and so margarines are generally now more heart-healthy.

Butter vs. margarine: Which is better for my heart? - MayoClinic.com

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

plastic, yummy!

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:37 pm

Yeah we had it. Along with the fazio commercials or what ever his name is. Havent seen it on the shelves for years though.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:39 pm

Lon;1222036 wrote: I really prefer this product to butter and nutritionally it's OK. Probably not available in Oz. We get that here....... it's shyte.

Rapunzel · Post by **Rapunzel** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:41 pm

YouTube - Vicar of dibley (I cant believe its not butter)

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:45 pm

oscar;1222038 wrote: The only substitute for butter we would ever have in our house is an italian Olive oil based one.

I use a good grade of olive oil in salads and with pasta as well as mixed with other herbs for dipping of some breads. I use the artificial butter on cooked spinach, potatoes, corn and other veggies. I like the artificial on Sour Dough French Bread.

Rapunzel · Post by **Rapunzel** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:50 pm

With all the old threads that have been rebooted recently, I was just thinking yesterday that its about time someone brought back the butter thread! :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:51 pm

Rapunzel;1222045 wrote: YouTube - Vicar of dibley (I cant believe its not butter)
Brilliant :yh_rotfl I've got a niece just like 'Alice Tinker'. :wah:

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:52 pm

Yeah I only brought it up because they were talking to a doctor about it on the radio yeasterday.

I only eat butter, sometimes I put margerine in the fry pan and it's this that changes the chemical compound of the margerine ............heating process. I cook with virgin olive oil but now it will always be olive oil.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:57 pm

Is it sad that I understood what she said the first time? blonde speak?:yh_rotfl

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:14 pm

Rapunzel;1222051 wrote: With all the old threads that have been rebooted recently, I was just thinking yesterday that its about time someone brought back the butter thread! :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

yes.......... we do need that now!:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:58 pm

Butter and I cook with Olive Oil. I have a Heart Surgeon for a Brother-in-Law he keeps us on the straight and narrow as to what really isn't good for you. Four things high on his list are.

1. Diet drinks of any kind they are dangerous and full of chemicals if you going to drink soft drink, drink the real thing not diet.

2. Margarine - As you explained it is nothing but rubber and chemicals.

3. Artificial Sugars - Once again chemicals, use real sugar if you need to use sugar.

4. Decaf Coffee - Once again the process of taking the caffeine out of the coffee requires chemicals, if you can't drink regular coffee than try tea.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:41 pm

This is offensive. Did you really think you could reinvent the butter thread ?

Fuzzy, this is beneath you.

mrsK · Post by **mrsK** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:12 am

Butter but I do have 2 cans Zero coke a day:-5

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:09 am

fuzzywuzzy;1222014 wrote: Lets see. Margerine is one chemical step away from 'plastic. If you were to leave butter and margerine outside ants and insects would devour the butter and leave margerine totally alone.......what's that say?

Butter is a natural substance, calcium rich, dairy product used for a millenia.

Let's see. Milk is, in fact, one chemical step away from plastic.

Ants don't like butter or margarine, but do like jam.

Butter is a substance which is made by physically and chemically changing a substance close to plastic, and is bad for your health.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:18 am

Rapunzel;1222033 wrote: margarines are generally now more heart-healthy

(than butter).

Correct. There's margarine, and thare's margarine. The spreadable commodities are generally healthiest - but, as always, *read the label*. Avoid margarine containing trans fats. Don't use unsuitable margarine for cooking with.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:44 pm

Nomad;1222147 wrote: This is offensive. Did you really think you could reinvent the butter thread ?

Fuzzy, this is beneath you.

Ummm no Just think margerine is is plastic goo that real humans don't eat because it's plastic goo.

Go to the kitchen Take some cream out of the fridge add a pinch of salt and whip it or shake it into butter.

Now go to the kitchen (after obtaining a degree in science) and make margerine............Can't do it can ya?

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:59 pm

fuzzywuzzy;1222406 wrote: Ummm no Just think margerine is is plastic goo that real humans don't eat because it's plastic goo.

Go to the kitchen Take some cream out of the fridge add a pinch of salt and whip it or shake it into butter.

Now go to the kitchen (after obtaining a degree in science) and make margerine............Can't do it can ya?

How does a combination of Sweet Cream Buttermilk and Vegetable Oil make plastic goo?

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:10 pm

HOW IS MARGARINE MADE?

Ever wonder how is margarine made?

Many people probably know it is made by a process called hydrogenation. But few are aware of the details of what goes on during hydrogenation.

Here is a step-by-step description of the hydrogenation process.

How is margarine made: Step 1

Margarine makers start with cheap. poor quality vegetable oils, such as corn, cottonseed, soybeans, safflower seeds and canola.

These oils have already turned rancid from being extracted from oil seeds using high temperature and high pressure. Rancid oils are loaded with free radicals that react easily with other molecules, causing cell damage, premature aging and a host of other problems.

The last bit of oil is removed with hexane, a solvent known to cause cancer. Although this hexane subsequent removed, traces of it are inevitably left behind.

Unfit for consumption

Moreover, some of these oils are not suitable for human consumption to begin with.

Cottonseed oil, one of the most popular margarine ingredients, has natural toxins and unrefined cottonseed oil is used as a pesticide. The toxin, gossypol, is removed during refining.

Cottonseed oil also contains far too much Omega-6 fatty acids in relation to Omega 3. While both Omega 6 and Omega 3 are essential fatty acids, an imbalance between the two is widely believed to cause various health problems, including heart disease.

Most experts on the subject believe that a healthy ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 is between 1:1 and 1:2. Cotton seed oil, however, has over 50 percent omega 6 and only trace amounts of Omega 3, giving a ratio of 1: several hundred or more.

As cotton is one of the most heavily sprayed crops, there are also concerns that cottonseed oil may be highly contaminated with pesticide residues. However, insufficient testing has been done.

Canola oil, which is widely touted as the healthiest oil of all, has problems as well. Consumption of Canola has been linked with vitamin E deficiency as well as growth retardation. For this reason, Canola oil is not allowed to be used in the manufacture of infant formula.

The oils used for making margarine are also among the Big Four genetically modified crops – soy, corn, rapeseed / Canola and cotton.

How is margarine made: Step 2

The raw oils for making margarine are steam cleaned. This destroys all the vitamins and antioxidants.

However, the residues of pesticides and solvents – that is, hexane – remain.

How is margarine made: Step 3

The oils are mixed with finely ground nickel, a highly toxic substance that serves as a catalyst for the chemical reaction during the hydrogenation process.

Other catalysts may be used, but these, too, are highly toxic.

How is margarine made: Step 4

The oils are then put under high temperature and pressure in a reactor.

Hydrogen gas is introduced. The high temperature and pressure, together with the presence of nickel catalyst, causes hydrogen atoms to be forced into the oil molecules.

If the oil is partially hydrogenated, it turns from liquid into a semi-solid.

Trans fats are formed during partial hydrogenation. These are fat molecules that have been twisted out of shape. In liquid oils, the molecules are bent, with the hydrogen atoms on opposite sides of each other.

During partial hydrogenation, the molecules are somewhat straightened and now all the hydrogen molecules are on the same side.

If the oil is fully hydrogenated, it turns into a hard solid that cannot be eaten. It no longer contains trans fats because the "out of shape oil molecules have all been broken up to form straight chains. But this does not mean they have become healthy again because of all the unnatural steps above.

How is margarine made: Step 5

What comes out of the partial hydrogenation process is a smelly, lumpy, grey grease.

To remove the lumps, emulsifiers – which are like soaps – are mixed in.

How is margarine made: Step 6

The oil is steam cleaned (again!) to remove the odor of chemicals. This step is called deodorization and it again involves high temperature and high pressure.

How is margarine made: Step 7

The oil is then bleached to get rid of the grey color.

How is margarine made: Step 8

Synthetic vitamins and artificial flavors are mixed in.

A natural yellow color is added to margarine, as synthetic coloring is not allowed!

In fact, early last century, all coloring was not allowed and margarine was white. This was to protect consumers so that they do not get butter and margarine mixed up.

How is margarine made: Step 9

Finally, the margarine is promoted to the public as a health food – with the full endorsement of many scientists, doctors, nutritionists and health authorities.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:12 pm

sorry

How is margarine made? If you know the full details, you cannot possibly think that it is healthy. Yet many health experts still do.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:41 pm

So you are saying all margaries are unhealthy?

Recipes and Meals with Less Saturated Fat Ã¢â‚¬“ I Can't Believe It's Not Butter!Ã‚®

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:49 pm

I do not dislike butter and consume it on a regular basis with some things. I could not imagine eating lobster tail (bugs) with anything other than real butter, but not all margarine's are bad and should not be lumped together.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:00 pm

Lon;1222440 wrote: (are) all margaries are unhealthy?

No they are not. If there are unhealthy ones, they must be very, very few nowadays (UK).

No reply to my "Milk is 1 step away from plastic", of course. There are contradictions, inaccuracies and general wrongness in an earlier psot in this thread - it makes me wonder "Why?".

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:44 pm

I wouldn't know i get mine straight from the cow and stay away from pasturised (sometimes) and homoginized (always)

what i'm saying in this thread is WHY would you want to step away from a natural product and use an unnatural product?

could you please explain why Milk is one step away from plastic? Because you can make plastic from a chemical reaction from a natural product or your making hte natural product from plastic?