A Soul Dilemma.

[Rapunzel]

OK, we need some discussion threads in the garden. A little weight to balance out the levity and dross.

A while ago I was discussing foetuses (foeti?) with Coberst and Accountable and the discussion made me wonder when you feel a baby or a foetus gets his/her soul?

Do you feel a soul is given at the moment of conception?

Do you think it becomes part of the foetus when his/her heart begins to beat?

Or do you believe a soul will become a part of the baby during it's birth?

If so, at what point during the birthing process do you feel a soul becomes a part of the baby?

Do you even believe in the soul?

I've heard that at the moment of death our bodies lose 21g which is supposedly the weight of the soul leaving the body.

Maybe we could even move this on and define what the soul is made from and what its purpose is?

And what happens to it after death?

Is it recycled? Are we reincarnated? Do we reuse our own souls or does another body get to use them?

I hope we can have a serious discussion about peoples thoughts and views without being too silly and without involving God too much and without inaugurating a slanging match.

Just a weighty yet jokey thread of thoughts and feelings about something we may not have considered before. Thankyou.

[Betty Boop]

I've always liked the idea of souls and to believe that when we die the soul does infact move away from the body, I'm not entirely sure where it waits or who assigns it another body, I do think they keep on moving though.

The soul arrives at conception maybe...

I'm not at all entirely sure, as I like evidence for everything and of course there is no evidence that's probably why I 'like' to believe rather than out and out definitely believe. :-3

Still looking for answers I guess.

[Rapunzel]

Thats a good answer . . . and I don't know either.

I think a soul arrives with the heart beat because then the baby becomes a living human being with a heart and soul. If he had no soul then and died between then and birth he would be soulless. What would happen to him, or the essence of who he was or who he could have been?

But then, what if he dies before his heart beats? Is he just a collection of cells and tissue? He would have been someone, doesn't he deserve a soul to register that he once was, even if only for a very short time?

I'm not saying any answer is right or wrong. I guess I'm just wondering really and wondering what other folks think too.

[Oscar Namechange]

Rapunzel;1241085 wrote: Thats a good answer . . . and I don't know either.

I think a soul arrives with the heart beat because then the baby becomes a living human being with a heart and soul. If he had no soul then and died between then and birth he would be soulless. What would happen to him, or the essence of who he was or who he could have been?

But then, what if he dies before his heart beats? Is he just a collection of cells and tissue? He would have been someone, doesn't he deserve a soul to register that he once was, even if only for a very short time?

I'm not saying any answer is right or wrong. I guess I'm just wondering really and wondering what other folks think too. What If a baby is born and dies minutes after her first heart beats?

[theia]

Rapunzel;1241081 wrote: OK, we need some discussion threads in the garden. A little weight to balance out the levity and dross.

A while ago I was discussing foetuses (foeti?) with Coberst and Accountable and the discussion made me wonder when you feel a baby or a foetus gets his/her soul?

Do you feel a soul is given at the moment of conception?

Do you think it becomes part of the foetus when his/her heart begins to beat?

Or do you believe a soul will become a part of the baby during it's birth?

If so, at what point during the birthing process do you feel a soul becomes a part of the baby?

Do you even believe in the soul?

I've heard that at the moment of death our bodies lose 21g which is supposedly the weight of the soul leaving the body.

Maybe we could even move this on and define what the soul is made from and what its purpose is?

And what happens to it after death?

Is it recycled? Are we reincarnated? Do we reuse our own souls or does another body get to use them?

I hope we can have a serious discussion about peoples thoughts and views without being too silly and without involving God too much and without inaugurating a slanging match.

Just a weighty yet jokey thread of thoughts and feelings about something we may not have considered before. Thankyou.


Rapunzel, my feeling is that we are ultimately one soul, or part of the whole, and we move in and out of bodily form, which, maybe, is just part of a dream, an illusion?

Life and death can seem like a mystery and maybe, if we could just accept the mystery and the not knowing, we could somehow delight in being a part of it?

I just don't know, and everytime I think I might be getting closer to knowing, that knowledge gets whisked away from right under my nose!

[Rapunzel]

oscar;1241093 wrote: What If a baby is born and dies minutes after her first heart beats?


During pregnancy: "You can hear the foetal heartbeat on sonography with colour Doppler from the 9th week onwards. You can feel the foetal movement in the 18th - 19th week of pregnancy."

http://www.indiaparenting.com/faqs/p...eartbeat.shtml

A question about our first heart beat? - SciForums.com

I always thought a foetuses heart started to beat in the 12th week of pregnancy, but the above quotation says that sonography can hear a foetal heartbeat from the 9th week onwards.

I was wondering when during pregnancy you thought a baby gained it's soul. Do you think her soul arrives after a baby is actually born Oscar? If so, when do you think we gain our souls? (unintentional pun there, sorry. )

I don't know sweetie, what do you think?

[Rapunzel]

theia;1241100 wrote: Rapunzel, my feeling is that we are ultimately one soul, or part of the whole, and we move in and out of bodily form, which, maybe, is just part of a dream, an illusion?

Life and death can seem like a mystery and maybe, if we could just accept the mystery and the not knowing, we could somehow delight in being a part of it?

I just don't know, and everytime I think I might be getting closer to knowing, that knowledge gets whisked away from right under my nose!


I like this. Thanks for sharing it Theia. :-6

I think any and all ideas are acceptable in helping us to understand how things might perhaps be.

[Oscar Namechange]

Rapunzel;1241101 wrote: During pregnancy: "You can hear the foetal heartbeat on sonography with colour Doppler from the 9th week onwards. You can feel the foetal movement in the 18th - 19th week of pregnancy."

http://www.indiaparenting.com/faqs/p...eartbeat.shtml

A question about our first heart beat? - SciForums.com

I always thought a foetuses heart started to beat in the 12th week of pregnancy, but the above quotation says that sonography can hear a foetal heartbeat from the 9th week onwards.

I was wondering when during pregnancy you thought a baby gained it's soul. Do you think her soul arrives after a baby is actually born Oscar? If so, when do you think we gain our souls? (unintentional pun there, sorry. )

I don't know sweetie, what do you think?
Sorry rap... I wasn't very alert when I wrote that post. I meant to say ' What if a baby is born and dies minutes after her first breaths... not... heartbeat. Need more coffee.

I don't the answers... wish I did then I'd know where she is.

[Rapunzel]

oscar;1241103 wrote: Sorry rap... I wasn't very alert when I wrote that post. I meant to say ' What if a baby is born and dies minutes after her first breaths... not... heartbeat. Need more coffee.

I don't the answers... wish I did then I'd know where she is.


Thats so sad Oscar and I'm so sorry for your loss. :-1

I've miscarried 4 babies (including twins) so I kinda know how you feel. :-4 :-1 :yh_hugs

I think, and this is just my opinion, but I think a baby receives its soul before birth, so a baby that is stillborn or a SIDS baby WILL, imo, have a soul, which will go straight to heaven or wherever/whatever you imagine heaven to be. A place of light and love. :-4

[Oscar Namechange]

Rapunzel;1241112 wrote: Thats so sad Oscar and I'm so sorry for your loss. :-1

I've miscarried 4 babies (including twins) so I kinda know how you feel. :-4 :-1 :yh_hugs

I think, and this is just my opinion, but I think a baby receives its soul before birth, so a baby that is stillborn or a SIDS baby WILL, imo, have a soul, which will go straight to heaven or wherever/whatever you imagine heaven to be. A place of light and love. :-4 Thankyou... It was a long time ago but I do wonder a lot. I'm so sorry for your losses as well.

I know that when I went to see my father in his coffin, I had an over-whelming feeling that It wasn't him lying there and It was just his shell. His spirit was gone but not in a dead type sense, but else-where. I like to think my daughter is with him and my mother and sister where-ever they are. I suppose we will all find out one day.