48 arrested in race clashes.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:51 pm

Chookie;1251098 wrote: Getting away from all this bullshit about whether or not that moron Griffin is a Holocaust denier (which he is), where in the original article, is there any reference to race?

The article cited the English Defence League (which organisation can, at a stretch be called racist) and the Union Against Fascism, which is multi-cultural and multi-racial (and therefore not racist).

That being the case, why did this (so-called) newspaper play the "race" card?

That's the more important question. There is no doubt that the EDL is racist. Many are expelled members of the BNP.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:15 pm

That's code for ... 'Oh F**K I can't answer her questions rationally.

No, I am saying you are a BNP supporter in the same way Griffin is a Holocaust denier. You have not used the words "I am a BNP supporter" but your actions and other words and phrases you have used clearly show you are one. Same with Griffin and the Holocaust. He may never have used the exact words 'THE HOLOCAUST NEVER TOOK PLACE' but his other words and actions (including support for David Irving, the discredited historian and Holocaust denier) quite clear show that is what he thinks. I repeat:

He says the gas chambers are a myth (in another clip). He says the the "extermination tale" was an "extremely profitable lie" and "Allied wartime propaganda"

If he thinks the Holocaust happened, why does he say the gas chambers were a myth? If he thinks the extermination of the Jews was real, why does he call it a lie?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:26 pm

Clodhopper;1251137 wrote: No, I am saying you are a BNP supporter in the same way Griffin is a Holocaust denier. You have not used the words "I am a BNP supporter" but your actions and other words and phrases you have used clearly show you are one. Same with Griffin and the Holocaust. He may never have used the exact words 'THE HOLOCAUST NEVER TOOK PLACE' but his other words and actions (including support for David Irving, the discredited historian and Holocaust denier) quite clear show that is what he thinks. I repeat:

If he thinks the Holocaust happened, why does he say the gas chambers were a myth? If he thinks the extermination of the Jews was real, why does he call it a lie?
Your talking bollocks and you know It. I have come on this forum many many a time and condemned the Israeli attacks on Gaza... Does that make me a Hamas supporter? Your clutching at straws.

No it is not quite clear what he thinks. The truth is unless you have met him, YOU do not know what he THINKS. When talking of the gas chambers as a myth, he is refering to the myth of the numbers that the Jews claim were sent to their death. he has never denied the existence of gas chambers.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:32 pm

he has never denied the existence of gas chambers.

He said the gas chambers were a myth!

A myth is an invented story - not real.

Therefore Griffin says the gas chambers were an invented story and not real.

So he denies the existence of gas chambers.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:34 pm

Your talking bollocks and you know It. I have come on this forum many many a time and condemned the Israeli attacks on Gaza... Does that make me a Hamas supporter? Your clutching at straws.

sigh....

No. It does not make you a Hamas supporter, it makes you someone who condemns the Israeli attacks on Gaza.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:38 pm

Clodhopper;1251147 wrote: He said the gas chambers were a myth!

A myth is an invented story - not real.

Therefore Griffin says the gas chambers were an invented story and not real.

So he denies the existence of gas chambers. No, he refers to the numbers claimed by historians going to the gas chambers a myth, not their existence.

Fury at BNP candidate's claims over Holocaust - Yorkshire Evening Post

This article is reasonably accurate. Show me where he DENIES THE HOLOCAUST.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:39 pm

Clodhopper;1251148 wrote: sigh....

No. It does not make you a Hamas supporter, it makes you someone who condemns the Israeli attacks on Gaza.
So because I condemn Israel for attacking Gaza... I am NOT an anti Jew. And I am NOT a Hamas sympathiser. So I question the hypocrisy of the UAF and that makes me a BNP sympathiser? Your argument just fell arsse over tit.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:46 pm

The next time a Black leftist / White Liberal bangs on about whites are all inherently racist, that blacks are victims of white racism and that whites should pay reparations for slavery - then just remind them of this one little fact ;

Over 360,000 white people died in the American Civil War on the Union side in order for blacks to be freed from slavery.

Therefore Whites paid their dues for slavery with the blood just under half a million white men and women who died to free black slaves.

In fact Blacks in America should get down on their knees every day and give thanks for the hundreds of thousands of whites who died so they could be free.

Instead we have professional spongers and race relations extortionists demanding reparations - when the reality is that whites paid the historic bill for black slavery with their own blood.

The next time some liberal idiot calls America a 'racist nation' remind them of two facts ;

1) That in todays America it is blacks who are the majority of criminals and whites who are the predominant victims of black criminality along with their fellow blacks

and

2) That todays Blacks owe Whites a debt that they can never repay - the debt of 360,000 whites dying so they can be free

Questioning the motives and actions of the UAF does not make you a BNP supporter. Posting articles like the one I quote the opening of above makes you a BNP supporter. My argument is valid.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:55 pm

Clodhopper;1251153 wrote: Questioning the motives and actions of the UAF does not make you a BNP supporter. Posting articles like the one I quote the opening of above makes you a BNP supporter. My argument is valid. HA... so what your really saying is that after 5 hours on these threads... you just lost your arguement. To win back any credibility in your defeat you take the OP from another thread that I posted last week. To set the record straight... I did not write that OP on that thread. I actually was looking for some-thing else when I found it and found it incredible. I posted it on a few forums where the response from US and British members was Interesting. Of course, the article is Crap.. I have enough knowledge of the civil war to know that. if you want the site that it came from, I will pm it to you as there are other articles on there that are deeply offensive, one especially about Obama that I would not want to post here.... far worse than the one I posted. Do you really think because some-oner posts an article they have found on the net, that they agree 100% with it especially when i had not even commented on it? I don't believe you are actually that shallow. The article got the exact reaction I expected.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:24 pm

Don't put words in my mouth. You avoid most questions, weasel out of others and have the audacity or stupidity to think you have won something?

You posted that article without attribution as yours. You only started saying they weren't your opinions when people started piling poo on your head for it - a reaction you didn't get on some of the other sites where you posted the same article. You've been here plenty long enough to know you should acknowledge it openly when you quote someone else. In addition you've spent all day saying the BNP are juuuuuust fine and got involved in this discussion backing up Hugh Janus who was also supporting the BNP. Your actions say you are a BNP supporter much louder than your words say you are not.

I'll believe your actions, not your words.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:33 pm

Clodhopper;1251161 wrote: Don't put words in my mouth. You avoid most questions, weasel out of others and have the audacity or stupidity to think you have won something?

You posted that article without attribution as yours. You only started saying they weren't your opinions when people started piling poo on your head for it - a reaction you didn't get on some of the other sites where you posted the same article. You've been here plenty long enough to know you should acknowledge it openly when you quote someone else. In addition you've spent all day saying the BNP are juuuuuust fine and got involved in this discussion backing up Hugh Janus who was also supporting the BNP. Your actions say you are a BNP supporter much louder than your words say you are not.

I'll believe your actions, not your words.

No.. you stated that Griffin was a holocaust denier. I asked you to show evidence that he had actually said it. You could not and can not. You have dug yourself into a deeper and deeper hole instead of being man enough to stand up and admit that however much you google, you can not prove that griffin had said 'I deny a holocaust existed. To weasel out of that you dredge up another thread. At least I was man enough to message members I had offended by posting the article. You have not got the balls to stand up and say that you can not prove the claim you made against Grfiffin.

I don't see anywhere that hugh is supporting the BNP... you are looking for angles that are not there to win your arguement that you lost a long while ago.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:54 pm

I have provided a great deal of evidence that Griffin is a holocaust denier. Your attempts to twist it to mean he admits the Holocaust are not convincing but you never respond to my posts showing it: eg:

You said: he has never denied the existence of gas chambers.

I replied:

He said the gas chambers were a myth!

A myth is an invented story - not real.

Therefore Griffin says the gas chambers were an invented story and not real.

So he denies the existence of gas chambers.

You were wrong, and knew it, so you ducked. Don't think it isn't noticed.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:58 pm

Clodhopper;1251166 wrote: I have provided a great deal of evidence that Griffin is a holocaust denier. Your attempts to twist it to mean he admits the Holocaust are not convincing but you never respond to my posts showing it: eg:

You said:

I replied:

You were wrong, and knew it, so you ducked. Don't think it isn't noticed. I think we will never agree to agree. It's been absolutely delightful Old chap but one must really think about going to bed. I will catch you tomorrow sometime. :driving:

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:21 pm

"...He soon announced himself as a Holocaust denier and, in a 1997 booklet entitled Who are the Mind Benders?, Griffin outlined a Jewish conspiracy to brainwash the British people in their own "homeland".

From the BBC. Link below.

BBC NEWS | UK | Nick Griffin: Right-wing chameleon

I've had a quick skim of the Who are the Mindbenders? article.

Here's a sample:

Who controls broadcasting?

There can be little doubt that television is the most powerful force for the presentation of the news and the formation of attitudes. Go into any workplace, pub, school, shop, or other institution and the chances are that the conversation will get around to the previous night's 'soap' or something of particular note on the evening's news. And what was shown – and not shown – on the TV screen will in all probability have affected the way in which the viewers see the world.

By using such techniques, the controllers of the TV stations have enormous power to shape popular opinion. And a glance through any TV guide will reveal that, by providing us with an endless diet of pro-multiracial, pro-homosexual, anti-British trash, the masters of the TV stations are not shy of using that power. So just who are these people? Just who is responsible for the poison peddled by 'our' television networks?

BBC

The most powerful man at the 'British' Broadcasting Corporation is Alan Yentob, Director of BBC programmes. According to Broadcast magazine (14.6.96) this "gives him control over all non-news BBC programmes including those for satellite channels and those in English for the World Service." Yentob is a close personal friend of the immensely powerful independent TV bosses Michael Grade and Michael Green. The three have shared holidays in the Caribbean and, together with Charles Saatchi, are referred to by coy insiders as the "St. John's Wood Mafia." The Saatchi and Yentob families have been closely connected since before they moved to Britain from Iraq.

Alan Yentob

BBC-boss Alan Yentob

Behind the scenes, Jews are well represented among the Governors of the BBC, who include former President of the S. G. Warburg merchant bank Sir David Scholey, Sir Kenneth Bloomfield and Janet Cohen. Holders of important BBC managerial posts include Sarah Frank, Chief Executive of BBC Worldwide Americas; Controller of Publicity and Public Relations, Keith Samuel, and David Aaronovitch, who is Managing Editor of the BBC's weekly programmes. Anne Sloman is Deputy Head of BBC News Programmes; Ruth Caleb is the Head of Drama, and Louis Marks has been Producer of Drama since 1976. Another key figure in terms of the BBC's relationship with the rest of the world, Commercial Director at BBC Worldwide TV Tony Kay, is responsible for deals with American networks such as NBC. International Director of US cable operator TCI, Adam Singer – son of former BBC Director-General Aubrey Singer – has also been responsible for a number of big deals between the BBC and TCI's British subsidiary Flextech.

Head of BBC Comedy Entertainment is Jon Plowman. He is responsible for 'alternative comedian' Ben Elton's Thin Blue Line. Presumably Elton got the same helping hand onto the show-business ladder as Barry Cryer, Lloyd Grossman, Ester Ranzen, Dennis Norden and Felicity Kendall.

Did you know that's exactly how the Nazis started on the Jews? They said Jews were over-represented in certain areas of German life and all the Nazis were doing was redressing the balance. Here's Griffin starting the exact same process.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:25 pm

I think we will never agree to agree. It's been absolutely delightful Old chap but one must really think about going to bed. I will catch you tomorrow sometime.

It's been a bloody irritating nuisance and I could do without having to deal with this sort of Shyte. But as long as you keep spouting this sort of rubbish I'll be here to fight you.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:37 pm

Clodhopper;1251171 wrote: It's been a bloody irritating nuisance and I could do without having to deal with this sort of Shyte. But as long as you keep spouting this sort of rubbish I'll be here to fight you. Then you've learned nothing. The UAF give the BNP oxygen and votes by the day. The easiest way to deal with some-thing or some-one unplesant is to ignore them. Why spend four hours posting.? All the time you make comments that you can not substantiate, I will also continue to ask you to provide evidence... all of which you have failed to do tonight.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:51 pm

The easiest way to deal with some-thing or some-one unplesant is to ignore them. Why spend four hours posting.? All the time you make comments that you can not substantiate, I will also continue to ask you to provide evidence... all of which you have failed to do tonight.

No. You just ignore the stuff I post that you can't deal with. Your arguments are specious and your logic poor.

But feel free to spout your rubbish. I'll be here to point out what a pile of poo it is.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:41 pm

Clodhopper;1251178 wrote: The easiest way to deal with some-thing or some-one unplesant is to ignore them. Why spend four hours posting.? All the time you make comments that you can not substantiate, I will also continue to ask you to provide evidence... all of which you have failed to do tonight.

No. You just ignore the stuff I post that you can't deal with. Your arguments are specious and your logic poor.

But feel free to spout your rubbish. I'll be here to point out what a pile of poo it is. I'll ask again then shall I? Show me proof that Griffin denies there was a holocaust.

You've been ducking and diving all night. When you lose... you result to insults. I really am surprised at you.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:54 am

I've read through the thread again, and if you say that Griffin is not a Holocaust denier you are just being obtuse. The evidence is there.

For anyone who wishes to see some of it again without tracking back through several threads, below is the link to a number of relevant videoclips:

Griffin Holocaust denial - Google Videos

And the Panorama investigation of the BNP:

BBC News | Programmes | Under the skin of the BNP

None of which oscar accepts as relevant.

farmer giles · Post by **farmer giles** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:53 am

Clodhopper;1251246 wrote: I've read through the thread again, and if you say that Griffin is not a Holocaust denier you are just being obtuse. The evidence is there.

For anyone who wishes to see some of it again without tracking back through several threads, below is the link to a number of relevant videoclips:

Griffin Holocaust denial - Google Videos

And the Panorama investigation of the BNP:

BBC News | Programmes | Under the skin of the BNP

None of which oscar accepts as relevant.

there are none so blind that will not see buddy :rolleyes::rolleyes: