Experts: Bishops covered up priests' child abuse

[Jazzy]

DUBLIN -Bishops of the Roman Catholic Church in Dublin covered up decades of child abuse by priests in order to protect the church's reputation, an expert commission reported Thursday after a three-year investigation.

Abuse victims welcomed the commission's report on the Dublin Archdiocese's mishandling of child abuse cases — one of several government investigations into chronic child rape, beatings and other cruelty in Catholic-run schools, children's workhouses and orphanages in 1975-2004.

The government said the investigation "shows clearly that a systemic, calculated perversion of power and trust was visited on helpless and innocent children in the archdiocese."

Link to full story: Experts: Bishops covered up priests' child abuse

[Ahso!]

Imagine what it was like prior to 1975!

[gmc]

It's not just in Dublin

Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests'| News | This is London

BBC NEWS | Americas | Abuse scandal forces out Boston cardinal

The Boston diocese faces some 450 lawsuits alleging child abuse and is considering filing for bankruptcy.


No doubt there will be those who see it as nothing more than anti catholic propaganda

[Clodhopper]

I would have thought this will have a major long term effect on Irish society. I was struck by the shock so evident on Mr Ahern's face and in his voice in the BBC report I watched. This isn't just an ordinary scandal, if you see what I mean...the systematic, institutionalised condoning of child abuse for political ends by the Roman Catholic Church...

[hoppy]

Yeah, let's get a rope. Lynch the lot of 'em.

[G#Gill]

Well, this is just the way to encourage people to catholicism isn't it ?

Religion ? I would think that these so-called priests wouldn't know the first thing about religion, christianity - is that what is meant by 'suffer little children to come unto me' ????? It's about time that the Pope allowed the Catholic priests to get married, and behave like normal human beings, then maybe a lot of this child abuse might cease !

I do understand that this sort of thing happens within the Church of England as well!

Those clergy are allowed to be married, so what's their excuse ?????

[hoppy]

G#Gill;1266559 wrote: Well, this is just the way to encourage people to catholicism isn't it ?

Religion ? I would think that these so-called priests wouldn't know the first thing about religion, christianity - is that what is meant by 'suffer little children to come unto me' ????? It's about time that the Pope allowed the Catholic priests to get married, and behave like normal human beings, then maybe a lot of this child abuse might cease !

I do understand that this sort of thing happens within the Church of England as well!

Those clergy are allowed to be married, so what's their excuse ?????


Child abuse happens under all conditions. It just gets more attention from some quarters than others.

[Bryn Mawr]

hoppy;1266568 wrote: Child abuse happens under all conditions. It just gets more attention from some quarters than others.


Where those carrying out the abuse have placed themselves in a position of authority and trust then obviously a systematic breach of trust on this scale will attract attention.

[Ted]

I was once told by an RC theologian that mother church must be protected from scandal at any cost.

My wife heard that G. Bush gave Ratzinger a blanket protection from prosecution in the US. Nice eh!!!

Shalom

Ted:-6

[yaaarrrgg]

Ted;1266640 wrote: My wife heard that G. Bush gave Ratzinger a blanket protection from prosecution in the US. Nice eh!!!

Shalom

Ted:-6


I saw that too, from the documentary "Deliver us from evil" (2006)

[spot]

G#Gill;1266559 wrote: I do understand that this sort of thing happens within the Church of England as well!

Those clergy are allowed to be married, so what's their excuse ?????


That's an interesting insight into the cause, Gill.

In the one case there's the Roman Catholic church which defines all manifestations of sexual practice for the clergy as sinful, in the Anglican instance it defines all sexual practice outside the bonds of holy matrimony as sinful.

Since each church defines sinfulness, and the bible has such a a soft spot for prostitution, it would be easy enough for them to have a Religious Order of Harlots dedicated to servicing the clergy without commissioning sin. End result - everyone's libido remains uncharged, choirboys lose their attraction overnight and we can go back to farming the by-blows of the laity's carnal failings in out-of-sight institutions without risking outrage.

I'll email the pope.

[Clodhopper]

I was thinking more about the fact that the Catholic Church is? used to be? very important to the people of Ireland in part at least because of the role it played in resistance to Protestant UK colonisation. An incident like this - well - I don't know what the effects might be.

[Ahso!]

G#Gill;1266559 wrote: Well, this is just the way to encourage people to catholicism isn't it ?

Religion ? I would think that these so-called priests wouldn't know the first thing about religion, christianity - is that what is meant by 'suffer little children to come unto me' ????? It's about time that the Pope allowed the Catholic priests to get married, and behave like normal human beings, then maybe a lot of this child abuse might cease !

I do understand that this sort of thing happens within the Church of England as well!

Those clergy are allowed to be married, so what's their excuse ?????An exceptionally crude interpretation of love, huh!

My daughter was married a couple of weeks ago in a Catholic church (her husband is Catholic), and here we all are sitting in a church being basically lectured to by a guy who is not married, has no children and supposedly spends more time alone in prayer and tending to the spiritual needs of a group of strangers than developing personal relationships telling us about love and commitment in a marriage and family....PLEASE!!!

[hoppy]

The way I see it, this child abuse scandal is just another excuse to use to justify bashing Catholics. Just admit you are a bigot and be done with it.

[spot]

hoppy;1266712 wrote: The way I see it, this child abuse scandal is just another excuse to use to justify bashing Catholics. Just admit you are a bigot and be done with it.


Ah. It'd be a different matter if they were Muslims, I bet.

[hoppy]

Not necessarily.

[Galbally]

I have been away for a while as I am so busy in my work, as you know Ireland has been gong through very very difficult times, but I felt I have to comment on this situation.

I am Irish, I am a Catholic, I just want to register my shame today and the powerlessness and disgust I feel about my country at the moment.

I feel I no longer want to be part of the Catholic Church, I certainly don't want any children I have to come into contact with that utterly rotten institution. I will remain a Christian, but I can't remain in a religious organization that has (in Ireland at least) basically operated as a large and powerful paedophile ring. Any Catholics that feel that's unfair should read the Murphy report and consider the implications for themselves honestly.

This is the reality of what happened here. If you are a parent look at your children and think about this.

Sick children in hospitals molested by Priests, priests using religious objects to penetrate 6 year olds in their vagina and anuses, taking photographs of young children in sexual positions, masturbating over naked children in schools while beating them, plying ten year olds with drink and then buggering them in the dark, their screams muffled by pillows, perverted priests setting up clubs to give them access to young children, old priests making young boys of 6 and 7 give them oral sex, masturbate them, rape them in the name of Jesus Christ, then priests who were caught being sent to other parishes and allowed to start again with new victims, with individual priests abusing tens and hundreds of children. Thousands of Children were abused in the Dublin diocese alone, no one really knows how many have been attacked and abused.

Those that spoke of what was being done to them were ignored castigated and marginalized, many took their own lives, police going to bishops with complaints instead of investigating. Perverts conducting their activities with abandon while those in authority in Church and State excused, allowed, and facilitated them based on some sick belief that the reputation of the church was more important than the right of ordinary Irish children to not be penetrated and abused by deviants.

All this being done through schools, hospitals, orphanages, churches, all in the full knowledge of bishops who not only turned a blind eye, but did everything they could to make sure these people were shielded and allowed to continue on in their duties despite the fact they were aware this would result in more children being destroyed in the most horrible way imaginable.

It is almost unbearable. This is not religion, this is evil, there is no excuse. Ireland is supposed to be a civilized country, how could this be allowed to happen knowingly?

The Vatican has said nothing, it has not helped in any way, after everything, in fact it has tried to obstruct the truth coming out. No answer has been made to repeated requests for information from the Irish Authorities about this; all the raped Irish children, the denials of justice, the facilitation of abusers, the lonely suicides, the molestation, the coverups, the unctious self-justification by these perverts and their facilitators. Shame on Pope Benedict, how can he claim to speak for Christ while presiding over this? Shame on our Irish Bishops, shame on the hierarchy, shame on our country and its leaders, how could they do this to their own people? If you are Catholic you need to realize this is the reality.

Its clear that everything (even the most lurid and unbelieveable stories) that has been said about the Catholic Church in Ireland (to our shame) has proven to be true, the Church is beyond repair in Ireland in my opinion, we need our own reformation now, enough is enough.

It may not collapse tomorrow, or next year, but I cannot see Catholicism remaining as the majority Church in Ireland in the next 30 years. How can we trust people who have determinedly facilitated perverts in their buggery and rape of our children, for decades, unashamedly, unequivocally, because thats what they did. How could they (the supposedly normal ones) allow evil men they knew would do this to continue, what do they imagine it feels like to be a 5 or ten year old being raped by a fully grown man?

How do they think it feels to stand at a cold river decades after you have been violated, alone, unwanted, and feel your only option is to throw yourself in? Did they really believe they were doing Gods work? What sort of people are they? That they were helping to save our souls while their "holy" collegues f8cked our kids from behind?

During that time they hectored the general population and made sure that social and State attitudes to contraception, abortion, homosexuality, and divorce were dictated by concepts of strict Catholic doctrine based on guilt about normal sex between consenting adults. It is beyond disgusting, I feel like we are waking up and realizing we have been living in a very bad dream.

Our State has been deeply complicit in this, and we have to change things, our Republic has been so badly damaged by everything that has happened recently it's hard to see how we are to regain any sense of pride in our country. However, at least the truth is out, but it hurts. Our government gave the church upwards of a billion Euro in the last few years, to help them pay off the children they raped, buggered and molested; and also closed down all legal redress in the courts if they accepted this blood money (provided by taxpayers, some of whom are, of course, the abused themselves).

We should claim that money back, they have no right to it, how dare they do this. The citizens of Ireland should bring the Irish Catholic Church to the Court of Human Rights in the Hague and demand reparations for what they have done, if they cannot pay, their Irish property should be seized and used to fund efforts to rebuild the lives of Irish survivors. If the Pope doesn't come clean about what he knows, and releases files on the perverts who destroyed so many Irish children, then the Irish State should end all diplomatic relations with the Vatican.

I think Gill is right, what is happening in Ireland and what is coming to light is truly excruciating for us, but we need to face up to it if we want to be considered a civilized country by the rest of the world. It's hard to express how demoralized, depressed, shamed, and angry I feel about this. God forgive us.

I am ashamed to be Irish today, I truly am.

[mikeinie]

I have not replied so far as it is difficult to find the words to come up with.

Even today there are priests know to be pedophiles who cannot be named and have been moved by the church to new areas. It is know that one is a teacher in a kid’s school in England now, but they will not name him.

In my opinion this was fed by the Irish government from a time when they had no processes to deal with troubled children, as there were no institutions the kids were handed over to the Christian Brothers.. ‘give them to the Christian Brothers, they sort them out’. They were not sorted out, they became priests and corrupted the institution.

Add to this that kids at the age of 13 were making life long decisions to go to seminaries and become priests, encouraged by their parents who felt the pride to have a child in the priesthood. Really, what the hell does a 13 year old know? They are only discovering sexuality and they are shoved into an institution that is supposed to be mature enough to be celibate. Crazy, it was a disaster waiting to happen, all supported by the government of holy catholic Ireland.

I will not repeat all the comments made by Galbally, only to say that even now the Vatican has not replied, even now claims of abuse are going unanswered.

This, for Ireland, is the crime of the century.

[Galbally]

mikeinie;1266742 wrote: I have not replied so far as it is difficult to find the words to come up with.

Even today there are priests know to be pedophiles who cannot be named and have been moved by the church to new areas. It is know that one is a teacher in a kid’s school in England now, but they will not name him.

In my opinion this was fed by the Irish government from a time when they had no processes to deal with troubled children, as there were no institutions the kids were handed over to the Christian Brothers.. ‘give them to the Christian Brothers, they sort them out’. They were not sorted out, they became priests and corrupted the institution.

Add to this that kids at the age of 13 were making life long decisions to go to seminaries and become priests, encouraged by their parents who felt the pride to have a child in the priesthood. Really, what the hell does a 13 year old know? They are only discovering sexuality and they are shoved into an institution that is supposed to be mature enough to be celibate. Crazy, it was a disaster waiting to happen, all supported by the government of holy catholic Ireland.

I will not repeat all the comments made by Galbally, only to say that even now the Vatican has not replied, even now claims of abuse are going unanswered.

This, for Ireland, is the crime of the century.


I am glad there is someone else on this board today who is Irish today Milkennie, I feel the same way as you do. We have reached a nadir in our country economically, politically, and morally.

[yaaarrrgg]

hoppy;1266712 wrote: The way I see it, this child abuse scandal is just another excuse to use to justify bashing Catholics. Just admit you are a bigot and be done with it.


You're trying to play the victim card here?

If you give absolute, unquestioned power to any organization, you will corrupt it. This kind of mentality is what's put the church in the sorry state it's in now.

[spot]

Thank you mike and Galbally. I didn't get far into part 2 of the report but I got the gist. It was commissioned to investigate specifically the reaction of the church to allegations made against priests and there it is, time and again, shift them sideways and silence the accusers. The only concern seems to be to rebuild what the church regarded as priests damaged in the course of their jobs by the wiles of the Tempter, as far as I can tell. The focus was on the wrong people since it left the laity unprotected.

[along-for-the-ride]

"This is not religion, this is evil, there is no excuse."

I am a Catholic who is not allowed to participate in the sacraments because I have divorced and remarried. I don't feel that I should have my first marriage annulled so I can receive the sacraments again because I have had four children in that first marriage. This is my story which I am sure is shared by many others...and yet these priests are allowed to abuse children and GIVE the sacraments. How ironic.

It does not really matter that all priests do not molest children. Some did and some looked the other way. That is tragedy enough. That is indeed evil.........and there is no excuse.

[K.Snyder]

I don't know much about this sort of thing but it seems to me like priests and the sexual abuse of a child is more common than other incidences. I'm not exactly sure that's the case.

Perhaps the main reason is because religion is supposed to emanate good will.

Having said that, anyone seen as harboring a child molester aside from religion would they not be held accountable by law, or at least any moral law, ironically enough?

I suppose my logic is that if the religious lives of these sick individuals were to be responsible for these crude acts against children the numbers would show that it's more common amongst priests, as far as percentages are concerned, than it is in the public or other affiliations

[K.Snyder]

spot;1266688 wrote: That's an interesting insight into the cause, Gill.

In the one case there's the Roman Catholic church which defines all manifestations of sexual practice for the clergy as sinful, in the Anglican instance it defines all sexual practice outside the bonds of holy matrimony as sinful.

Since each church defines sinfulness, and the bible has such a a soft spot for prostitution, it would be easy enough for them to have a Religious Order of Harlots dedicated to servicing the clergy without commissioning sin. End result - everyone's libido remains uncharged, choirboys lose their attraction overnight and we can go back to farming the by-blows of the laity's carnal failings in out-of-sight institutions without risking outrage.

I'll email the pope.


Yes but who would those "Harlots" be? You'd have to not run the risk of leaving these "peoples'" desires to go unfulfilled. Seeing as how they're attracted to young boys you'd have to, seemingly enough, recruit young boys that would be willing to be felt up and molested by these priests. Seeing as how it's against the law to partition young boys, as defined by a lack of "adulthood", to partake in these vile acts you'd have to find someone else.

We could start with taking young "male" prostitutes above the age of "childhood" off of the streets and give them a proper title. "Alternate boy" or sompeden lika dat! He could come in response to a flag having been thrown during a period of boredom when the service gets a bit too dull for the "priests'" liking. Would be up to the people if they wished to stay and watch the remaining sperman unfold!

There we have it, we've taken young "men" off of the streets selling their butts and we've successfully served to eliminate any innocent child from being abused.

Couldn't think of a better alternative

[K.Snyder]

K.Snyder;1266983 wrote: Yes but who would those "Harlots" be? You'd have to not run the risk of leaving these "peoples'" desires to go unfulfilled. Seeing as how they're attracted to young boys you'd have to, seemingly enough, recruit young boys that would be willing to be felt up and molested by these priests. Seeing as how it's against the law to partition young boys, as defined by a lack of "adulthood", to partake in these vile acts you'd have to find someone else.

We could start with taking young "male" prostitutes above the age of "childhood" off of the streets and give them a proper title. "Alternate boy" or sompeden lika dat! He could come in response to a flag having been thrown during a period of boredom when the service gets a bit too dull for the "priests'" liking. Would be up to the people if they wished to stay and watch the remaining sperman unfold!

There we have it, we've taken young "men" off of the streets selling their butts and we've successfully served to eliminate any innocent child from being abused.

Couldn't think of a better alternative


Although we'd have to keep the ""male" prostitutes above the age of "childhood"" very clean shaven at a constant in order to keep these "priests" from having their "desires to go unfulfilled"! Perhaps we could keep these "young "male" prostitutes above the age of "childhood"" suckling on a pasaphire with a strict dress code consisting of diapers and a rash!

[Ahso!]

Galbally;1266735 wrote: I have been away for a while as I am so busy in my work, as you know Ireland has been gong through very very difficult times, but I felt I have to comment on this situation.

I am Irish, I am a Catholic, I just want to register my shame today and the powerlessness and disgust I feel about my country at the moment.

I feel I no longer want to be part of the Catholic Church, I certainly don't want any children I have to come into contact with that utterly rotten institution. I will remain a Christian, but I can't remain in a religious organization that has (in Ireland at least) basically operated as a large and powerful paedophile ring. Any Catholics that feel that's unfair should read the Murphy report and consider the implications for themselves honestly.

This is the reality of what happened here. If you are a parent look at your children and think about this.

Sick children in hospitals molested by Priests, priests using religious objects to penetrate 6 year olds in their vagina and anuses, taking photographs of young children in sexual positions, masturbating over naked children in schools while beating them, plying ten year olds with drink and then buggering them in the dark, their screams muffled by pillows, perverted priests setting up clubs to give them access to young children, old priests making young boys of 6 and 7 give them oral sex, masturbate them, rape them in the name of Jesus Christ, then priests who were caught being sent to other parishes and allowed to start again with new victims, with individual priests abusing tens and hundreds of children. Thousands of Children were abused in the Dublin diocese alone, no one really knows how many have been attacked and abused.

Those that spoke of what was being done to them were ignored castigated and marginalized, many took their own lives, police going to bishops with complaints instead of investigating. Perverts conducting their activities with abandon while those in authority in Church and State excused, allowed, and facilitated them based on some sick belief that the reputation of the church was more important than the right of ordinary Irish children to not be penetrated and abused by deviants.

All this being done through schools, hospitals, orphanages, churches, all in the full knowledge of bishops who not only turned a blind eye, but did everything they could to make sure these people were shielded and allowed to continue on in their duties despite the fact they were aware this would result in more children being destroyed in the most horrible way imaginable.

It is almost unbearable. This is not religion, this is evil, there is no excuse. Ireland is supposed to be a civilized country, how could this be allowed to happen knowingly?

The Vatican has said nothing, it has not helped in any way, after everything, in fact it has tried to obstruct the truth coming out. No answer has been made to repeated requests for information from the Irish Authorities about this; all the raped Irish children, the denials of justice, the facilitation of abusers, the lonely suicides, the molestation, the coverups, the unctious self-justification by these perverts and their facilitators. Shame on Pope Benedict, how can he claim to speak for Christ while presiding over this? Shame on our Irish Bishops, shame on the hierarchy, shame on our country and its leaders, how could they do this to their own people? If you are Catholic you need to realize this is the reality.

Its clear that everything (even the most lurid and unbelieveable stories) that has been said about the Catholic Church in Ireland (to our shame) has proven to be true, the Church is beyond repair in Ireland in my opinion, we need our own reformation now, enough is enough.

It may not collapse tomorrow, or next year, but I cannot see Catholicism remaining as the majority Church in Ireland in the next 30 years. How can we trust people who have determinedly facilitated perverts in their buggery and rape of our children, for decades, unashamedly, unequivocally, because thats what they did. How could they (the supposedly normal ones) allow evil men they knew would do this to continue, what do they imagine it feels like to be a 5 or ten year old being raped by a fully grown man?

How do they think it feels to stand at a cold river decades after you have been violated, alone, unwanted, and feel your only option is to throw yourself in? Did they really believe they were doing Gods work? What sort of people are they? That they were helping to save our souls while their "holy" collegues f8cked our kids from behind?

During that time they hectored the general population and made sure that social and State attitudes to contraception, abortion, homosexuality, and divorce were dictated by concepts of strict Catholic doctrine based on guilt about normal sex between consenting adults. It is beyond disgusting, I feel like we are waking up and realizing we have been living in a very bad dream.

Our State has been deeply complicit in this, and we have to change things, our Republic has been so badly damaged by everything that has happened recently it's hard to see how we are to regain any sense of pride in our country. However, at least the truth is out, but it hurts. Our government gave the church upwards of a billion Euro in the last few years, to help them pay off the children they raped, buggered and molested; and also closed down all legal redress in the courts if they accepted this blood money (provided by taxpayers, some of whom are, of course, the abused themselves).

We should claim that money back, they have no right to it, how dare they do this. The citizens of Ireland should bring the Irish Catholic Church to the Court of Human Rights in the Hague and demand reparations for what they have done, if they cannot pay, their Irish property should be seized and used to fund efforts to rebuild the lives of Irish survivors. If the Pope doesn't come clean about what he knows, and releases files on the perverts who destroyed so many Irish children, then the Irish State should end all diplomatic relations with the Vatican.

I think Gill is right, what is happening in Ireland and what is coming to light is truly excruciating for us, but we need to face up to it if we want to be considered a civilized country by the rest of the world. It's hard to express how demoralized, depressed, shamed, and angry I feel about this. God forgive us.

I am ashamed to be Irish today, I truly am.Welcome back! The Irish need not be ashamed of you or Mike.

Your thoughts are probably representative of the majority of the Irish people.

[K.Snyder]

Galbally;1266735 wrote: How could they (the supposedly normal ones) allow evil men they knew would do this to continue, what do they imagine it feels like to be a 5 or ten year old being raped by a fully grown man?


For the record I'd never consider anyone to do any of what's happened to be a man.

And on a side note, I've recently discovered I have significant Irish ancestry from my mothers paternal side of the family. Hope that helps! :yh_wink :wah:

But all in all I have to say I am saddened this sort of thing happens to children. All involved would never see the light of a free day if I had any control over the situation. And I do mean all

[Clodhopper]

Mike, Galbally: The Irish People are the victims here. You have nothing to be ashamed of. Your trust has been horribly abused. My deepest sympathy.

[gmc]

One of the people who helped cover all this up will be visiting us soon. Do you think the irish government will have the nerve to refuse to let him in if he wants to visit ireland.?

The Pope's visit to Britain is nothing to celebrate | Tanya Gold | Comment is free | The Guardian

Of course it not the done thing to criticise organised religion in any way in case you offend the religious.

[spot]

Don't you go blaming me, he was way down my list of preferred candidates for the papacy. Nasty chap all round, Joseph Ratzinger. I bet he used to vote Conservative.

[gmc]

spot;1267667 wrote: Don't you go blaming me, he was way down my list of preferred candidates for the papacy. Nasty chap all round, Joseph Ratzinger. I bet he used to vote Conservative.


I'd no idea you were a cardinal:sneaky: (note to self, no jokes about pointy hats or red dresses) I see they're talking about catholics to succeed to the throne. Great stuff should get everybody good and stirred up- I can hear the flute bands tuning up as we speak. Is it not god who guides when these decisions about who should be pope are made?

[spot]

There is no god. There's a truckload of politics and the entire organization ought to be outlawed under racketeering legislation.

[Galbally]

Clodhopper;1267339 wrote: Mike, Galbally: The Irish People are the victims here. You have nothing to be ashamed of. Your trust has been horribly abused. My deepest sympathy.


Thanks Clodhopper, I appreciate what you're saying. Of course the responsibility lies with the abusers and those who facilitated them.

I do think that there is a collective failure of society on one level here though. We were a country indoctrinated by deference to the Catholic Church for too long, as with many things, people were on one level aware that such things went on, but made themselves blind to it somehow, maybe by minimizing it, or making it a thing of jokes and innuendo (the slightly odd priest with roving hands in not a new stereotype) So people sort of equivocated on this, and made themselves believe it wasn't really that serious. Even though in fact, it was very very serious.

I know because I live in this society and that is definetly true. That attitude has totally changed though, and that at least is something. The enormity of these crimes, and the length of time people were able to get away with them has been the result (among other things) of trust being put in a Church that simply was not deserving of that trust on any level.

Of course there are decent people within Catholicism in Ireland, both the congregations and some of the clergy, but they were all noticeably absent when they were needed to stand up and protect the vunerable. Our society was very pious, but not very Christian it seems.

[Galbally]

Robert J;1267014 wrote: Welcome back! The Irish need not be ashamed of you or Mike.

Your thoughts are probably representative of the majority of the Irish people.


Cheers RJ, I am quite sure you're right.

[Galbally]

gmc;1267665 wrote: One of the people who helped cover all this up will be visiting us soon. Do you think the irish government will have the nerve to refuse to let him in if he wants to visit ireland.?

The Pope's visit to Britain is nothing to celebrate | Tanya Gold | Comment is free | The Guardian

Of course it not the done thing to criticise organised religion in any way in case you offend the religious.


It would be nice if you asked him about it on our behalf anyway, as he seems unwilling to talk to us directly.

Actually, the Eucharistic Congress is planned to be held here in 2010. That's a big Catholic sort of festival that is held in certain years, it goes from one country to another, we had one in the 1920s or 30s, so its a bit like the Catholic World Cup or something.

It's my opinion that it absolutely shouldn't be held in Ireland, as a mark of respect to Irish victims of clerical abuse.

[kazalala]

spot;1267703 wrote: There is no god. There's a truckload of politics and the entire organization ought to be outlawed under racketeering legislation.


Im reading a book by Russ Kicks called everything you know is wrong,, the article about the vatican bank was very interesting:sneaky:

[flopstock]

I remember when I was young, we girls never thought it was fair that the priest always picked a boy to stay and help him with things. Looking back, that was probably the only free pass I got in my young life..:rolleyes:

[fuzzywuzzy]

Hhmmmm I heard this on the radio and was stunned to find I didn't really care.......Well I cared but maybe my surprise was totally lacking . This kind of news has been coming out of the woodwork since the eighties all over the world. So in the most catholic dominated country in the world ....should anyone have been surprised.?

[gmc]

Galbally;1267746 wrote: It would be nice if you asked him about it on our behalf anyway, as he seems unwilling to talk to us directly.

Actually, the Eucharistic Congress is planned to be held here in 2010. That's a big Catholic sort of festival that is held in certain years, it goes from one country to another, we had one in the 1920s or 30s, so its a bit like the Catholic World Cup or something.

It's my opinion that it absolutely shouldn't be held in Ireland, as a mark of respect to Irish victims of clerical abuse.


Do you think there will be enough anger for it not to be held?

[Galbally]

gmc;1267867 wrote: Do you think there will be enough anger for it not to be held?


I hope so

[fuzzywuzzy]

flopstock;1267763 wrote: I remember when I was young, we girls never thought it was fair that the priest always picked a boy to stay and help him with things. Looking back, that was probably the only free pass I got in my young life..:rolleyes:


I was an alter girl. You had to stop at a certain age (just the girls) though because then they could make sure you weren't menstrating whilst on the alter.

we were lucky we had a great priest. He used to come over to our school and rally up girls by saying " who wants to get out of class" Of course there were always an immediate show of hands. The girls who were picked would leave with father to go visit people in the hospital. It was great fun .

Until the day he took us to the hospital to visit another priest (who I might add was sunning his scrotum in the garden after an operation) Father made the 'shhhh' sign to us as we came up behind the poor bloke. Never in my life have I seen a man cover himself so quickly and another priest almost lose his breath with laughter (thought we were going to have to give him mouth to mouth) at seeing five teenage girls standing before him. So I guess you could say I've seen a priest 'almost' completely naked.

Father John was a funny funny man. One day talk on a CB radio came through the microphone during serman. Everyone was stunned because a fair bit of language was intercepting. Father just stood there, raised his hands in the air and shouted "It's a miracle!!!!.........Okay fess up, which one of you has god swearing at us?"

Hhhmmm he died while I was still in high school of cancer or something, we were never really told.

[fuzzywuzzy]

Galbally;1267746 wrote: It would be nice if you asked him about it on our behalf anyway, as he seems unwilling to talk to us directly.

Actually, the Eucharistic Congress is planned to be held here in 2010. That's a big Catholic sort of festival that is held in certain years, it goes from one country to another, we had one in the 1920s or 30s, so its a bit like the Catholic World Cup or something.

It's my opinion that it absolutely shouldn't be held in Ireland, as a mark of respect to Irish victims of clerical abuse.


When the Pope was here a couple of years ago for the 'catholic youth thingy what's it' the goverment cordened off streets and wouldn't allow protests near him. 'Broken rights' etc and other protest groups weren't allowed even TV time. It was disgusting. The Pope made some weak apology to those affected . but there was outrage. I hope it dosen't come to that in Ireland. And to see our Catholic head honcho in Australia talk about the abuse on TV would make you sick to your stomach.

[mikeinie]

So far the Bishops named in the report that not only knew about the abuse, but worked to cover it up and continuously move these pedophile priests around from parish to parish are still not resigning their posts.



Bishop of Limerick won't resign over child sexual abuse cover-up

Let it be known….

Bishop Donal Murray now stationed in Limerick Ireland, was found in the report to be in full knowledge of the abuses happening to young children, assisted in covering it up, and took action to transfer pedophile priests from parish to parish when allegations were raised and did not report any of these abuses to the police.

[gmc]

The annoying thing is if a non catholic objects to the visit or criticise the church over this they are accused of sectarianism or being anti christian/religion. If you point out the sheer hypocrisy of it all you are condemned as just using it as an excuse to bash the church.

posted by hoppy

The way I see it, this child abuse scandal is just another excuse to use to justify bashing Catholics. Just admit you are a bigot and be done with it


Although I assume hoppy was being facetious and is not actually in favour of paedophiles getting away with it or suggesting we turn a blind eye because a priest was doing it.

[kazalala]

mikeinie;1267976 wrote: So far the Bishops named in the report that not only knew about the abuse, but worked to cover it up and continuously move these pedophile priests around from parish to parish are still not resigning their posts.



Bishop of Limerick won't resign over child sexual abuse cover-up

Let it be known….

Bishop Donal Murray now stationed in Limerick Ireland, was found in the report to be in full knowledge of the abuses happening to young children, assisted in covering it up, and took action to transfer pedophile priests from parish to parish when allegations were raised and did not report any of these abuses to the police.


Are they going to be arrested?

[Bryn Mawr]

kazalala;1268037 wrote: Are they going to be arrested?


Certainly well enough cause and plenty of charges that would stick.

[gmc]

Bryn Mawr;1268088 wrote: Certainly well enough cause and plenty of charges that would stick.


It won't happen because it will be portrayed as just attacking religion for the sake of it.

[K.Snyder]

So, then, we're left to assume that Catholicism is above Irish law?

[gmc]

K.Snyder;1268423 wrote: So, then, we're left to assume that Catholicism is above Irish law?


Clearly the church thinks should be. The states is not immune to this either.

Pope's 'shame' over paedophile priests -Times Online

The Pope’s visit was the first by a pontiff to the US since the scandal erupted. Six US dioceses have declared bankruptcy in recent years because of its financial toll.

In February 2004 US bishops issued a report on abuse of children by priests stretching over 52 years, beginning in 1950. It found that 10,667 people had accused priests of child sexual abuse between 1950 and 2002.


Maybe that's the right idea hit them in the pocket.

It is a great suffering for the Church in the United States and for the Church in general and for me personally that this could happen,” the Pope said. “It’s difficult for me to understand how it was possible that priests betrayed in this way their mission to give healing, to give the love of God to these children,” he said. “I am deeply ashamed and we will do what is possible so this cannot happen again in the future,” he added. He promised that the Church would do everything possible to screen candidates for the priesthood “so that only really sound persons can be admitted”.




This from the man who actively advocated covering it all up. Not a word for the victims-at least in this article.

[K.Snyder]

gmc;1268435 wrote: Clearly the church thinks should be. The states is not immune to this either.

Pope's 'shame' over paedophile priests -Times Online

Maybe that's the right idea hit them in the pocket.

This from the man who actively advocated covering it all up. Not a word for the victims-at least in this article.


I cannot for the life of me see how charges of pedophilia can be considered exemplary even if the abuser is affiliated with "the church" let alone a fen massive cover up!

To me that says far more about "the church" than the disgusting acts themselves!

"the church" has the tenacity to cover up massive pedophilia child abuse as opposed to allowing for the rightful incarceration of the "priests'" guilty of child sexual abuse. 'the church" is defined as covering up this ungodly horrific act as being guilty of not seeing to it that these "priest's" are appropriately sent to prison to rot "for an eternity" and the statement from that point on of them wishing to not allow charges to be correctly filed against these monsters, by default, defines them as being hypocritical to their "faith", a disgrace not only to humanity but God/"god" and only shows what a crock of horse feces the entire proclamation of the catholic "religion" has claimed to have been, is, and ever will be!

Anyone wishing to convert me to any religion can go to hell, and I'm not sorry for it!