Would anyone like to read Michael Moore's open letter to President Obama?
An Open Letter to President Obama from Michael Moore | MichaelMoore.com
He says it rather better than I can.
Out of interest, does anyone have a figure for the number of US military personnel still in Iraq this month? I don't, but I bet 130,000 is close.
Afghanistan is unwinnable, just as Iraq is unwinnable. Why the President's backed down I can't imagine but a it's pretty stupid decision.
We could, I suppose, discuss what winning in either country would constitute? I'd quite like that, it would make for a useful thread."I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank. "- Barack Obama, October 27, 2007It's sad.
US troop numbers in Afghanistan to increase by 30,000
US troop numbers in Afghanistan to increase by 30,000
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
US troop numbers in Afghanistan to increase by 30,000
It will be interesting to see how Lieberman votes on health care now.
Obama surrounded himself with a Chief of staff whose father, if I remember correctly, served as a high ranking officer in the Israeli elite guard and maintained the presence of a defense secretary who sees leaving either theater as a sign of weakness.
Unfortunately, there are many many more important people other than the President in my country that want both of these wars to continue. Theres an awful lot of jobs that depend on it right now.
Obama surrounded himself with a Chief of staff whose father, if I remember correctly, served as a high ranking officer in the Israeli elite guard and maintained the presence of a defense secretary who sees leaving either theater as a sign of weakness.
Unfortunately, there are many many more important people other than the President in my country that want both of these wars to continue. Theres an awful lot of jobs that depend on it right now.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
US troop numbers in Afghanistan to increase by 30,000
Robert J;1267880 wrote: It will be interesting to see how Lieberman votes on health care now.
Obama surrounded himself with a Chief of staff whose father, if I remember correctly, served as a high ranking officer in the Israeli elite guard and maintained the presence of a defense secretary who sees leaving either theater as a sign of weakness.
Unfortunately, there are many many more important people other than the President in my country that want both of these wars to continue. Theres an awful lot of jobs that depend on it right now.
What a job! Killing villages who are defending their homes and making the weapons to do so.
Obama surrounded himself with a Chief of staff whose father, if I remember correctly, served as a high ranking officer in the Israeli elite guard and maintained the presence of a defense secretary who sees leaving either theater as a sign of weakness.
Unfortunately, there are many many more important people other than the President in my country that want both of these wars to continue. Theres an awful lot of jobs that depend on it right now.
What a job! Killing villages who are defending their homes and making the weapons to do so.
US troop numbers in Afghanistan to increase by 30,000
Bryn Mawr;1267883 wrote: What a job! Killing villages who are defending their homes and making the weapons to do so.You're singing to the choir, Bryn. I'm simply stating what I think to be true. But the military ar not the jobs I'm talking about, its the defense contractors and other civilian workers that are employed due to these wars.
Politics in the U.S. is horrible, why anyone would want to do it is beyond me.
Politics in the U.S. is horrible, why anyone would want to do it is beyond me.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
US troop numbers in Afghanistan to increase by 30,000
I said consistently, from long before the primaries, that the Republicans deserved to win the Presidential election. America made a dreadful mistake electing a Democrat.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
US troop numbers in Afghanistan to increase by 30,000
Perhaps! The powers that be don't discriminate between the two.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
-
librtyhead
- Posts: 199
- Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:32 pm
US troop numbers in Afghanistan to increase by 30,000
Would anyone like to read Michael Moore's open letter to President Obama?
Nope! :wah: ........I had sticky cheese for lunch and would not want to spoil the moment. He is by far the biggest coward I have ever had the displeasure to hate. Another arm chair jockey that has never done anything but capitalize on what others do. Never doing anything really himself but complain via the lame social media that Hollywood has become. A worm inside a bubble wrapped in a mailbox, waiting for another sucker to buy his books or watch his amazingly simple and easily transparent ramblings that only a fool would accept as true. Considering the source, I would rather listen to ice melt in a freezer via dixie cup telephone.
Love
Librtyhead
:driving:
Nope! :wah: ........I had sticky cheese for lunch and would not want to spoil the moment. He is by far the biggest coward I have ever had the displeasure to hate. Another arm chair jockey that has never done anything but capitalize on what others do. Never doing anything really himself but complain via the lame social media that Hollywood has become. A worm inside a bubble wrapped in a mailbox, waiting for another sucker to buy his books or watch his amazingly simple and easily transparent ramblings that only a fool would accept as true. Considering the source, I would rather listen to ice melt in a freezer via dixie cup telephone.
Love
Librtyhead
:driving:
US troop numbers in Afghanistan to increase by 30,000
spot;1267876 wrote: Would anyone like to read Michael Moore's open letter to President Obama?
An Open Letter to President Obama from Michael Moore | MichaelMoore.com
He says it rather better than I can.
Out of interest, does anyone have a figure for the number of US military personnel still in Iraq this month? I don't, but I bet 130,000 is close.
Afghanistan is unwinnable, just as Iraq is unwinnable. Why the President's backed down I can't imagine but a it's pretty stupid decision.
We could, I suppose, discuss what winning in either country would constitute? I'd quite like that, it would make for a useful thread."I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank. "- Barack Obama, October 27, 2007It's sad.
I must say spot as I voted for Obama, that was the best article I've read so far concerning this insane war...he is taking Bush's policies over his own...I"m disgusted...as far as I'm concerned he is a one term pres....who is guiding him? It just pisses me off as we are spending millions everyday & my kids will end up paying for it:-5:-5
An Open Letter to President Obama from Michael Moore | MichaelMoore.com
He says it rather better than I can.
Out of interest, does anyone have a figure for the number of US military personnel still in Iraq this month? I don't, but I bet 130,000 is close.
Afghanistan is unwinnable, just as Iraq is unwinnable. Why the President's backed down I can't imagine but a it's pretty stupid decision.
We could, I suppose, discuss what winning in either country would constitute? I'd quite like that, it would make for a useful thread."I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank. "- Barack Obama, October 27, 2007It's sad.
I must say spot as I voted for Obama, that was the best article I've read so far concerning this insane war...he is taking Bush's policies over his own...I"m disgusted...as far as I'm concerned he is a one term pres....who is guiding him? It just pisses me off as we are spending millions everyday & my kids will end up paying for it:-5:-5
US troop numbers in Afghanistan to increase by 30,000
Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out. In the past two days, two trains went through my town loaded with tanks, artillery, trucks and other military vehicles. Looks like Obama is all set to start killing people, big time.:p
US troop numbers in Afghanistan to increase by 30,000
hoppy;1267969 wrote: Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out.That's a quote, I wish I could remember where it's from.
Maybe it's this - "one of the leaders of the Crusader army, the Papal legate Arnaud-Amaury, when asked by a Crusader how to distinguish the Cathars from the Catholics, answered: "Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius" – "Kill them all! Surely the Lord discerns which are his".
What would count as winning in Afghanistan, hoppy? How can we tell when the war's been won? Or is fighting the sole purpose of the fighting?
What's an acceptable casualty count, as the years go by?
Maybe it's this - "one of the leaders of the Crusader army, the Papal legate Arnaud-Amaury, when asked by a Crusader how to distinguish the Cathars from the Catholics, answered: "Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius" – "Kill them all! Surely the Lord discerns which are his".
What would count as winning in Afghanistan, hoppy? How can we tell when the war's been won? Or is fighting the sole purpose of the fighting?
What's an acceptable casualty count, as the years go by?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
US troop numbers in Afghanistan to increase by 30,000
I think that I am starting to slowly believe all the conspiracy theorists..
Maybe they are right...
Maybe we have surrendered control and are being run by ‘them’ (whoever ‘they ‘ are.)
Maybe they are right...
Maybe we have surrendered control and are being run by ‘them’ (whoever ‘they ‘ are.)
US troop numbers in Afghanistan to increase by 30,000
mikeinie;1267973 wrote: I think that I am starting to slowly believe all the conspiracy theorists..
Maybe they are right...
Maybe we have surrendered control and are being run by ‘them’ (whoever ‘they ‘ are.)
The President's evidently discovered that he can't do what he wanted and promised to do. Perhaps people who are theoretically meant to obey threatened to resign, though I can't see their resignations being a threat worth a candle. Today's policy is most certainly not what was put on the table a year ago.
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank."
It will be terrible to read that in conjunction with watching tonight's broadcast. I wonder whether he'll bring up the about-turn?
Maybe they are right...
Maybe we have surrendered control and are being run by ‘them’ (whoever ‘they ‘ are.)
The President's evidently discovered that he can't do what he wanted and promised to do. Perhaps people who are theoretically meant to obey threatened to resign, though I can't see their resignations being a threat worth a candle. Today's policy is most certainly not what was put on the table a year ago.
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank."
It will be terrible to read that in conjunction with watching tonight's broadcast. I wonder whether he'll bring up the about-turn?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
US troop numbers in Afghanistan to increase by 30,000
spot;1267978 wrote: The President's evidently discovered that he can't do what he wanted and promised to do. Perhaps people who are theoretically meant to obey threatened to resign, though I can't see their resignations being a threat worth a candle. Today's policy is most certainly not what was put on the table a year ago.
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank."
It will be terrible to read that in conjunction with watching tonight's broadcast. I wonder whether he'll bring up the about-turn?
To be fair, he was talking about Iraq here in this quote. Which his administration has started scaling this back, though realistically, we are going to have some forces there for the next 50 years.
My impression has been that Obama had always planned to commit more resources to Afghanistan and Pakistan, which has largely become neglected:
Obama announced a plan — if elected — to deploy an additional 7,000 troops to Afghanistan. "As president, I would pursue a new strategy, and begin by providing at least two additional combat brigades to support our effort in Afghanistan" "We need more troops, more helicopters, better intelligence-gathering and more nonmilitary assistance to accomplish the mission there" "I would not hold our military, our resources and our foreign policy hostage to a misguided desire to maintain permanent bases in Iraq," Obama said on July 14, 2008.[126]
Political positions of Barack Obama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank."
It will be terrible to read that in conjunction with watching tonight's broadcast. I wonder whether he'll bring up the about-turn?
To be fair, he was talking about Iraq here in this quote. Which his administration has started scaling this back, though realistically, we are going to have some forces there for the next 50 years.
My impression has been that Obama had always planned to commit more resources to Afghanistan and Pakistan, which has largely become neglected:
Obama announced a plan — if elected — to deploy an additional 7,000 troops to Afghanistan. "As president, I would pursue a new strategy, and begin by providing at least two additional combat brigades to support our effort in Afghanistan" "We need more troops, more helicopters, better intelligence-gathering and more nonmilitary assistance to accomplish the mission there" "I would not hold our military, our resources and our foreign policy hostage to a misguided desire to maintain permanent bases in Iraq," Obama said on July 14, 2008.[126]
Political positions of Barack Obama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
US troop numbers in Afghanistan to increase by 30,000
How many more body bags will it take before Obama see the hoplessness of it all? Wonder how he would feel if his daughers enlisted and never came back?
US troop numbers in Afghanistan to increase by 30,000
Scrat;1268355 wrote: I don't get it Spot, maybe I'm out of date. I can't see how we'd be better off with a repugnican in office. If that were so we'd be fighting in Iran also probably and god knows where else.The Republicans deserved to win the Presidential election in 2008 because they should be sweeping up their own vomit, not leaving it to other people, criticizing the way it's being done and claiming none of what's now happening is their own doing. Having a Democrat administration in the White House has let them off the PNAC hook they designed and totally screwed themselves up with. Oh, and it's good to see you posting again.
Anyway, here's the full speech, so we have a convenient copy to discuss in the thread: Obama's Afghan speech
President Obama wrote: Under the banner of this domestic unity and international legitimacy - and only after the Taliban refused to turn over Osama bin Laden - we sent our troops into Afghanistan.Actually you can take the threat of military intervention in Afghanistan back before 9/11. Al-Qaida monitored U.S. negotiations with Taliban over oil pipeline "while Simons doesn't admit that he personally threatened the Taliban with reprisal, he confirms that only a few weeks before Sept. 11 [2001], American diplomats warned of military action against Afghanistan if its leaders did not meet U.S. economic and political demands [...] Interim Afghan leader Hamid Karzai decided on May 30 [2002] to revive the pipeline project with Pakistan and Turkmenistan, signing an agreement under which the three governments agree to implement a pipeline from Turkmenistan to Pakistan through Afghanistan". There's also Bush team 'agreed plan to attack the Taliban the day before September 11' "At a meeting of the Bush administration's top national security officials on September 10 [2001], a three-phase strategy was agreed. The Taliban would be presented with a final ultimatum to hand over Bin Laden. Failing that, covert military aid would be channelled to anti-Taliban groups. If both those options failed, 'the deputies agreed that the United States would seek to overthrow the Taliban regime through more direct action'."
As for "the Taliban refused to turn over Osama bin Laden" - I do like the "turn over" in the sense of lose possession or ransack as opposed to "hand over" - President Bush's demand was "hand over every terrorist and every person and their support structure to appropriate authorities [...] They will hand over the terrorists or they will share in their fate [...] Our war on terror begins with al Qaeda, but it does not end there." The Taliban government offered to try Osama bin Laden if the US provided evidence of his involvement in 9/11, or to hand him to a third country, again if evidence were produced. I note that, even now, no warrant has been issued or charges brought against Osama bin Laden relating to 9/11. I'm sure it would embarrass the US government immensely if the man turned himself in on US soil and demanded a trial. The American ultimatum was, I suggest, a cloak for a previously determined occupation of Afghanistan in order to bring the country within the US sphere of economic influence.
President Obama wrote: we have given Iraqis a chance to shape their future, and we are successfully leaving Iraq to its people.Mr President, you still have (correct me if I'm wrong) 130,000 troops in Iraq and no sign whatever of their leaving, ever. Leave, why don't you. At least publish a regular update of troop numbers in the country so we can watch the so-called "withdrawal". At the moment it's more like pulling out but leaving a bloody great vibrator in place to keep things stirred.
President Obama wrote: For unlike the great powers of old, we have not sought world domination. Our union was founded in resistance to oppression. We do not seek to occupy other nations. We will not claim another nation's resources or target other peoples because their faith or ethnicity is different from ours. What we have fought for - and what we continue to fight for - is a better future for our children and grandchildren, and we believe that their lives will be better if other peoples' children and grandchildren can live in freedom and access opportunity.The sad thing is that the Afghan resistance could say exactly the same thing, in exactly the same words, and with rather more justification.
Anyway, here's the full speech, so we have a convenient copy to discuss in the thread: Obama's Afghan speech
President Obama wrote: Under the banner of this domestic unity and international legitimacy - and only after the Taliban refused to turn over Osama bin Laden - we sent our troops into Afghanistan.Actually you can take the threat of military intervention in Afghanistan back before 9/11. Al-Qaida monitored U.S. negotiations with Taliban over oil pipeline "while Simons doesn't admit that he personally threatened the Taliban with reprisal, he confirms that only a few weeks before Sept. 11 [2001], American diplomats warned of military action against Afghanistan if its leaders did not meet U.S. economic and political demands [...] Interim Afghan leader Hamid Karzai decided on May 30 [2002] to revive the pipeline project with Pakistan and Turkmenistan, signing an agreement under which the three governments agree to implement a pipeline from Turkmenistan to Pakistan through Afghanistan". There's also Bush team 'agreed plan to attack the Taliban the day before September 11' "At a meeting of the Bush administration's top national security officials on September 10 [2001], a three-phase strategy was agreed. The Taliban would be presented with a final ultimatum to hand over Bin Laden. Failing that, covert military aid would be channelled to anti-Taliban groups. If both those options failed, 'the deputies agreed that the United States would seek to overthrow the Taliban regime through more direct action'."
As for "the Taliban refused to turn over Osama bin Laden" - I do like the "turn over" in the sense of lose possession or ransack as opposed to "hand over" - President Bush's demand was "hand over every terrorist and every person and their support structure to appropriate authorities [...] They will hand over the terrorists or they will share in their fate [...] Our war on terror begins with al Qaeda, but it does not end there." The Taliban government offered to try Osama bin Laden if the US provided evidence of his involvement in 9/11, or to hand him to a third country, again if evidence were produced. I note that, even now, no warrant has been issued or charges brought against Osama bin Laden relating to 9/11. I'm sure it would embarrass the US government immensely if the man turned himself in on US soil and demanded a trial. The American ultimatum was, I suggest, a cloak for a previously determined occupation of Afghanistan in order to bring the country within the US sphere of economic influence.
President Obama wrote: we have given Iraqis a chance to shape their future, and we are successfully leaving Iraq to its people.Mr President, you still have (correct me if I'm wrong) 130,000 troops in Iraq and no sign whatever of their leaving, ever. Leave, why don't you. At least publish a regular update of troop numbers in the country so we can watch the so-called "withdrawal". At the moment it's more like pulling out but leaving a bloody great vibrator in place to keep things stirred.
President Obama wrote: For unlike the great powers of old, we have not sought world domination. Our union was founded in resistance to oppression. We do not seek to occupy other nations. We will not claim another nation's resources or target other peoples because their faith or ethnicity is different from ours. What we have fought for - and what we continue to fight for - is a better future for our children and grandchildren, and we believe that their lives will be better if other peoples' children and grandchildren can live in freedom and access opportunity.The sad thing is that the Afghan resistance could say exactly the same thing, in exactly the same words, and with rather more justification.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
US troop numbers in Afghanistan to increase by 30,000
spot;1268405 wrote: The Republicans deserved to win the Presidential election in 2008 because they should be sweeping up their own vomit, not leaving it to other people, criticizing the way it's being done and claiming none of what's now happening is their own doing. Having a Democrat administration in the White House has let them off the PNAC hook they designed and totally screwed themselves up with. Oh, and it's good to see you posting again.
At this point, if anyone is still happy with the job Bush and Co did, I'm not sure any more real-world evidence presented will affect their beliefs.
At this point, if anyone is still happy with the job Bush and Co did, I'm not sure any more real-world evidence presented will affect their beliefs.