Something I have considered for awhile, is the possibility of Primordal man, ( Neanderthal and Cromagnon) of having no consciousness. Unlike some in religion, I do not believe Adam was the first man God created. I see much confusion there. Adam was created perhaps anywhere from 6,000 upwards to 14,000 years ago, I am not really sure. But through Archaeology, we can know for sure that humans were on earth far before that estimate, some 200,000 upwards to some millions of years before that. Yet the bible calls Adam, " The First Man." So I think the key is Consciousness. Adam was the first man God created with " Consciousness." He simply didnot give primordal man consciousness. Which is why they never advanced into civilization, never developed languaue, never developed transportation, never developed technology or agriculture, never had religion.
So I will be going further into this theory, into Consciousness, and into primordal man, looking into the topic of them having no consciousness.
Peace.
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
What does a man being created in the image of God really mean? Well it means the man now has consciousness. Consciousness is the image of God. When Adam was created in Gods image, that means he was given Consciousness. Now, Revelations 4:5 reveals that God has " Seven Spirits", and Consciousness is one of those Spirits. Consciousness is " A Spirit", thats why it has no " Location within the Human body", because its " A Spirit in Man." Which God put there. Now this means that all humans after Adam, have Consciousness, or " A" Spirit of God. All of us have " One" of Gods Spirit, Consciousness or Life. Not to be confused with the " Spirit of Chosen Conversion', not all humans have that annointing.
It is my premise that God created Primordal man, like he did animals, holding no Consciousness, just a highly developed sense of " Instincts" which on the surface, appear to be Consciousness, but really is not.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
It is my premise that God created Primordal man, like he did animals, holding no Consciousness, just a highly developed sense of " Instincts" which on the surface, appear to be Consciousness, but really is not.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
What is consciousness? Is an animal self aware?
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
Mickiel;1276412 wrote: So I think the key is Consciousness. Adam was the first man God created with " Consciousness." He simply didnot give primordal man consciousness. Which is why they never advanced into civilization, never developed languaue, never developed transportation, never developed technology or agriculture, never had religion.
Consciousness is awareness.
How do you know God never gave man these things?
Man would have to be aware that he was hungry in order to eat, so that he wouldn't starve to death.
Man would have had to be aware he was cold so he could cure(!) animal skins and use them as clothing and so that he could invent fire.
Man would have been aware that he needed to be in a pack to protect himself and because it is easier to hunt food in a pack. Like animal packs, there would probably be an alpha male, therefore some semblance of civilisation.
And what are cave drawings if not a pictorial language?
I think primordial man would have had a highly developed sense of consciousness and awareness.
Consciousness is awareness.
How do you know God never gave man these things?
Man would have to be aware that he was hungry in order to eat, so that he wouldn't starve to death.
Man would have had to be aware he was cold so he could cure(!) animal skins and use them as clothing and so that he could invent fire.
Man would have been aware that he needed to be in a pack to protect himself and because it is easier to hunt food in a pack. Like animal packs, there would probably be an alpha male, therefore some semblance of civilisation.
And what are cave drawings if not a pictorial language?
I think primordial man would have had a highly developed sense of consciousness and awareness.
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
I think you are on to something, Mikiel, but I think it was after primordial man developed consciousness and self awareness, the Adam came along.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
gmc;1276471 wrote: What is consciousness? Is an animal self aware?
Consciousness is far more than self awareness, and I do not view animals as being conscious. They are alive, are a lifeform, but are not conscious beings, they only have instincts. Consciousness is a lifeforce given directly from God, it is a Spirit in your body. It gives you sympathy and identification with other things. It gives you ability to " See into the Consciousness of others", to understand what others are thinking, and remember that for a long time. Consciousness will result in culture, intellect, religion, history and science, primordal man had none of these, and 200,000 years is enough time to develop it IF you had it.
Consciousness is a Spirit from God, it is not a thing that created itself, then placed itself into apes, and made humans continious with the idiot hierarchies of speechless apes. Animals have no verbal language, neither did primordal man, verbal language is a sign of Consciousness. Agriculture is a sign of Consciousness, And language and Agriculture do not evolve biologically by simple natural selection.
Consciousness is the " Govenor of Behavior."
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Consciousness is far more than self awareness, and I do not view animals as being conscious. They are alive, are a lifeform, but are not conscious beings, they only have instincts. Consciousness is a lifeforce given directly from God, it is a Spirit in your body. It gives you sympathy and identification with other things. It gives you ability to " See into the Consciousness of others", to understand what others are thinking, and remember that for a long time. Consciousness will result in culture, intellect, religion, history and science, primordal man had none of these, and 200,000 years is enough time to develop it IF you had it.
Consciousness is a Spirit from God, it is not a thing that created itself, then placed itself into apes, and made humans continious with the idiot hierarchies of speechless apes. Animals have no verbal language, neither did primordal man, verbal language is a sign of Consciousness. Agriculture is a sign of Consciousness, And language and Agriculture do not evolve biologically by simple natural selection.
Consciousness is the " Govenor of Behavior."
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
LarsMac;1276483 wrote: I think you are on to something, Mikiel, but I think it was after primordial man developed consciousness and self awareness, the Adam came along.
Well I doubt that, but it could be, I just tend to see it comming after Adam. And I disagree that Consciousness is " Developed", it is given all at once by God. The estimates of how long primordal man lived range from 200,000 years into the millions, plenty enough time for intelligent Consciousness to " Develop", IF it is a thing that develops. Primordal man shows me nothing beyond a highly developed instinct, much like an animal race would live, if that long of a history.
Given that they buried their dead and displayed an intrest in Art, yes, I think that speaks for something, but not enough to display and develop what modern man has done with his consciousness. The gap is strangely too large in difference. I am not a believer in evolution, but even if evolution were true, which it is not, its as if Primordal man evolved to a certain lesser point, stayed that way for thousands of years, then after Adam it turned at an incredible right angle and simply exploded in a dramatically different angle. No, I just can't get to that.
But let me continue on Consciousness and what it is.
Peace.
Well I doubt that, but it could be, I just tend to see it comming after Adam. And I disagree that Consciousness is " Developed", it is given all at once by God. The estimates of how long primordal man lived range from 200,000 years into the millions, plenty enough time for intelligent Consciousness to " Develop", IF it is a thing that develops. Primordal man shows me nothing beyond a highly developed instinct, much like an animal race would live, if that long of a history.
Given that they buried their dead and displayed an intrest in Art, yes, I think that speaks for something, but not enough to display and develop what modern man has done with his consciousness. The gap is strangely too large in difference. I am not a believer in evolution, but even if evolution were true, which it is not, its as if Primordal man evolved to a certain lesser point, stayed that way for thousands of years, then after Adam it turned at an incredible right angle and simply exploded in a dramatically different angle. No, I just can't get to that.
But let me continue on Consciousness and what it is.
Peace.
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
OK, have it your way.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
LarsMac;1276488 wrote: OK, have it your way.
Well I use no other way, than my own way of thinking.
And I would have it no other way.
Peace.
Well I use no other way, than my own way of thinking.
And I would have it no other way.
Peace.
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
Mickiel;1276487 wrote:
But let me continue on Consciousness and what it is.
Peace.
Consciousness is not a copy of experience, its the memory of it. You can copy and store experience, animal instinct does that, but to reflect on the experience in your memory, and examine it at some future time, is consciousness. Consciousness brings importance, and consciousness is just not important in animals. Instincts govern animal behavior, Consciousness governs human behavior. And thats how we can prejudge that primordal man held no consciousness, by their behavior, it was too instictive, and not enough intellectual.
The doctrine of emergent evolution has no explination for Consciousness, because Consciousness does not evolve, it maintains a consistancy. We can learn, but I think consciousness has little to do with learning, learning is more instinctual in my view. The intellectual life of man, his culture and history, religion and science, is different than anythingelse we know of in the universe. This is a fact. The " Interiority of Consciousness" just couldnot in any sense be evolved by natural selection out of mere assemblages of molecules and cells. There is FAR more to Consciousness than mere matter, chance and survival.
I totally disagree with the Theory, ( and its still a theory) of evolution. I will never accept that the human mind, the human body, and Consciousness, could come from things " Lesser than its Greatness." It is impossible for something to evolve from nothing. It is equally impossible for Consciousness to have evolved from nebulous combinations of chemicals and energy that somehow made themselves from absolute zero.
Peace.
But let me continue on Consciousness and what it is.
Peace.
Consciousness is not a copy of experience, its the memory of it. You can copy and store experience, animal instinct does that, but to reflect on the experience in your memory, and examine it at some future time, is consciousness. Consciousness brings importance, and consciousness is just not important in animals. Instincts govern animal behavior, Consciousness governs human behavior. And thats how we can prejudge that primordal man held no consciousness, by their behavior, it was too instictive, and not enough intellectual.
The doctrine of emergent evolution has no explination for Consciousness, because Consciousness does not evolve, it maintains a consistancy. We can learn, but I think consciousness has little to do with learning, learning is more instinctual in my view. The intellectual life of man, his culture and history, religion and science, is different than anythingelse we know of in the universe. This is a fact. The " Interiority of Consciousness" just couldnot in any sense be evolved by natural selection out of mere assemblages of molecules and cells. There is FAR more to Consciousness than mere matter, chance and survival.
I totally disagree with the Theory, ( and its still a theory) of evolution. I will never accept that the human mind, the human body, and Consciousness, could come from things " Lesser than its Greatness." It is impossible for something to evolve from nothing. It is equally impossible for Consciousness to have evolved from nebulous combinations of chemicals and energy that somehow made themselves from absolute zero.
Peace.
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
Ian;1276544 wrote: You have the question and the answer in your question.
Adam and Eve is symbolic to when man became conscious, when he suddenly realised he had no clothes
When Adam and eve were kicked out of the garden is when man got consciousness...
Well I think God gave it to them before he had them thrown out, because he taught them language and they " Knew who God was", two definte signs of Consciousness. They communicated with God and each other, and they communicated with this serpent called the devil. These are definte signs of Consciousness, " While they were yet inside the Garden", much before they were kicked out.
Peace.
Adam and Eve is symbolic to when man became conscious, when he suddenly realised he had no clothes
When Adam and eve were kicked out of the garden is when man got consciousness...
Well I think God gave it to them before he had them thrown out, because he taught them language and they " Knew who God was", two definte signs of Consciousness. They communicated with God and each other, and they communicated with this serpent called the devil. These are definte signs of Consciousness, " While they were yet inside the Garden", much before they were kicked out.
Peace.
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
Mickiel, I won't spend much time on this, but don't you see you are applying critical thinking backwards? You are attempting to fit life into the biblical account rather than applying the biblical account to life to see if it works.
Also, you misunderstand the concept of evolution.
Stay on your journey though because you just may find something worth holding on to.
Good Luck!:)
Also, you misunderstand the concept of evolution.
Stay on your journey though because you just may find something worth holding on to.
Good Luck!:)
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
Ahso!;1276813 wrote: Mickiel, I won't spend much time on this, but don't you see you are applying critical thinking backwards? You are attempting to fit life into the biblical account rather than applying the biblical account to life to see if it works.
Also, you misunderstand the concept of evolution.
Stay on your journey though because you just may find something worth holding on to.
Good Luck!:)
Well I disagree with this, and let me tell you why. If you place something under a magnifying glass, it does not change your view of things, it improves your view of things.The biblical account has improved my view of things, nothingelse I have considered has done this to my view, and I have considered all things within my range of life. I have already found something worth holding on to, the biblical account. Within it, my mind has expanded each year in understanding all aspects of life, and I expect this to continue. It may seem backwards to your direction of thinking, and I complettely understand that, and why.
My course is predetermined, I am locked into this thinking which fascinates me.
But let me continue with Consciousness.
Peace.
Also, you misunderstand the concept of evolution.
Stay on your journey though because you just may find something worth holding on to.
Good Luck!:)
Well I disagree with this, and let me tell you why. If you place something under a magnifying glass, it does not change your view of things, it improves your view of things.The biblical account has improved my view of things, nothingelse I have considered has done this to my view, and I have considered all things within my range of life. I have already found something worth holding on to, the biblical account. Within it, my mind has expanded each year in understanding all aspects of life, and I expect this to continue. It may seem backwards to your direction of thinking, and I complettely understand that, and why.
My course is predetermined, I am locked into this thinking which fascinates me.
But let me continue with Consciousness.
Peace.
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
Let me speak a bit about the advent of Agriculture. I think that the change from a hunting and gathering economy to a food- producing economy by the domestication of plants and animals is the gigantic step that made civilization possible. But there is wide dissagreement as to its causes and the means by which this came about. Evolutionist think its just natural selection, just naturally occured, I strongly disagree with that. I think the advent of Consciousness caused this, and I think God gave man this Consciousness and should be credited with civilization, but he is not. But you need to really dig deep into your understanding mind to catch this.
In theory, the glaciers covered most of Europe during the late Pleistocene, the whole area from the Atlantic coast across North Africa and the Near East to Zagros Mountians in Iran enjoyed such an abundant rainfall, they perhaps did fine, ample game perhaps sufficent, but yet doomed to die out. Paleolithic man was yet to face the recession of the polar ice cap which moved northward and the entire Near East became increasingly arid. The game became no longer sufficent, and then, my goodness, what could they then do to survive? I think they all died out, and God was finished with whatever he was doing with them. It is no way possible Plant life could have survived the Ice Age, not in my minds view.
God changed the earths atmosphere, created Adam, and THEN, Agriculture began to flourish.
And I want to go into the tie in to Agriculture and Consciousness.
Peace.
In theory, the glaciers covered most of Europe during the late Pleistocene, the whole area from the Atlantic coast across North Africa and the Near East to Zagros Mountians in Iran enjoyed such an abundant rainfall, they perhaps did fine, ample game perhaps sufficent, but yet doomed to die out. Paleolithic man was yet to face the recession of the polar ice cap which moved northward and the entire Near East became increasingly arid. The game became no longer sufficent, and then, my goodness, what could they then do to survive? I think they all died out, and God was finished with whatever he was doing with them. It is no way possible Plant life could have survived the Ice Age, not in my minds view.
God changed the earths atmosphere, created Adam, and THEN, Agriculture began to flourish.
And I want to go into the tie in to Agriculture and Consciousness.
Peace.
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
So, you're posting this in a discussion forum because,...?
Just curious.
Just curious.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
LarsMac;1276873 wrote: So, you're posting this in a discussion forum because,...?
Just curious.
Because the subject intrest me.
Peace.
Just curious.
Because the subject intrest me.
Peace.
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
Ian;1276924 wrote: Only when Eve realised she had no clothes did she realise self consciousness by hiding her nakedness, Adam became conscious of everything and named them so.......
Well yes, I think they became conscious in the Garden of Eden.
Peace.
Well yes, I think they became conscious in the Garden of Eden.
Peace.
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
Mickiel;1276825 wrote:
And I want to go into the tie in to Agriculture and Consciousness.
Peace.
You need two things to create Agriculture, Language and Animals. You can only eat animals for so long, until the weather demands an alturnitive food source. Once humans can communicate effectively then the grouping of suitable domesticates, wild wheats and wild barely, whose native distribution overlaps with the much broader habitats of the herd animals of southwest Asia for example, Goats, Sheep, Cattle and wild Pigs, this educated combination of using Animals, their dung, their strength, and their senses, is what resulted in Agriculture. A Conscious decision to produce foodstuffs other than meat. Observing Animals feeding on the Land itself, and learning from that.
Agriculture made population possible. Instead of nomadic hunters living in the mouth of caves, surviving solely on meat and dying out, we have the reaping and preperation of cereals and legumes, flour and wheat, which make the permanence of population possible. Man cannot refine Agriculture without Language, and if language is present, so will Agriculture be. And without Consciousness, neither Language or Agriculture can exist. Thats why primordal man had neither.
Peace.
And I want to go into the tie in to Agriculture and Consciousness.
Peace.
You need two things to create Agriculture, Language and Animals. You can only eat animals for so long, until the weather demands an alturnitive food source. Once humans can communicate effectively then the grouping of suitable domesticates, wild wheats and wild barely, whose native distribution overlaps with the much broader habitats of the herd animals of southwest Asia for example, Goats, Sheep, Cattle and wild Pigs, this educated combination of using Animals, their dung, their strength, and their senses, is what resulted in Agriculture. A Conscious decision to produce foodstuffs other than meat. Observing Animals feeding on the Land itself, and learning from that.
Agriculture made population possible. Instead of nomadic hunters living in the mouth of caves, surviving solely on meat and dying out, we have the reaping and preperation of cereals and legumes, flour and wheat, which make the permanence of population possible. Man cannot refine Agriculture without Language, and if language is present, so will Agriculture be. And without Consciousness, neither Language or Agriculture can exist. Thats why primordal man had neither.
Peace.
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
Consciousness gives you a goal to be reached, without Consciousness, there can be no goals. Yet just another reason why I believe Primordal man had no Consciousness, they never had any Goals.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
Mickiel;1277187 wrote: Consciousness gives you a goal to be reached, without Consciousness, there can be no goals. Yet just another reason why I believe Primordal man had no Consciousness, they never had any Goals.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Even our modernday tribes have goals. Just pick out the most uncivilized of them, and they still have goals. They have rituals, yearly festivals, and seasonal hunting practices. They have Language, religion, Agriculture, none of which primordal man displayed. This is a serious assualt on the belief in evolution, and I want to show you why.
Peace.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Even our modernday tribes have goals. Just pick out the most uncivilized of them, and they still have goals. They have rituals, yearly festivals, and seasonal hunting practices. They have Language, religion, Agriculture, none of which primordal man displayed. This is a serious assualt on the belief in evolution, and I want to show you why.
Peace.
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
Mickiel;1277189 wrote: Even our modernday tribes have goals. Just pick out the most uncivilized of them, and they still have goals. They have rituals, yearly festivals, and seasonal hunting practices. They have Language, religion, Agriculture, none of which primordal man displayed. This is a serious assualt on the belief in evolution, and I want to show you why.
Peace.
Those of you who have decided to believe in evolution, I am sure you have your reasons, but I just can't get to it. It makes no logical sense to me at all. If evolution exist in humans, then conversely humans must evolve, and if evolution is continous, then we must continue to evolve. Primordal man didnot evolve, inspite of the obvious belief in such. 500,000 years, and no significant change. One million years, and still no evolution. I got a serious problem with that. Centuries of no Agriculture, no language, no religion, no transportation, no education, no complexity of ANYTHING! Because there was no Evolution in them, no Consciousness in them. Therefore no intelligent orgin for the theory of evolution that would bring any correct notion of humans being continous with the idiot hiearchy of speechless apes.
And I want to further examine that arguement.
Peace.
Peace.
Those of you who have decided to believe in evolution, I am sure you have your reasons, but I just can't get to it. It makes no logical sense to me at all. If evolution exist in humans, then conversely humans must evolve, and if evolution is continous, then we must continue to evolve. Primordal man didnot evolve, inspite of the obvious belief in such. 500,000 years, and no significant change. One million years, and still no evolution. I got a serious problem with that. Centuries of no Agriculture, no language, no religion, no transportation, no education, no complexity of ANYTHING! Because there was no Evolution in them, no Consciousness in them. Therefore no intelligent orgin for the theory of evolution that would bring any correct notion of humans being continous with the idiot hiearchy of speechless apes.
And I want to further examine that arguement.
Peace.
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
Mickiel;1277197 wrote: Those of you who have decided to believe in evolution, I am sure you have your reasons, but I just can't get to it. It makes no logical sense to me at all. If evolution exist in humans, then conversely humans must evolve, and if evolution is continous, then we must continue to evolve. Primordal man didnot evolve, inspite of the obvious belief in such. 500,000 years, and no significant change. One million years, and still no evolution. I got a serious problem with that. Centuries of no Agriculture, no language, no religion, no transportation, no education, no complexity of ANYTHING! Because there was no Evolution in them, no Consciousness in them. Therefore no intelligent orgin for the theory of evolution that would bring any correct notion of humans being continous with the idiot hiearchy of speechless apes.
And I want to further examine that arguement.
Peace.
If I may use my own family as an example of the useless theory of evolution and its lack of continuity. My great great great grandfather didnot evolve, my great great grandfather didnot evolve, my great grandfather showed absolutely no signs of evolution, so the theory of evolution has some serious gaps in its thesis. None of us are evolving, and none of your children will evolve. Human bodies have showed no evolutional change at ALL in any period you may choose from the last 14,000 years. NOTHING on the human body has changed! Absolutely NOTHING! Yet many still adhere to such an erie belief. And let me explain why their Consciousness has accepted such an unconscious theory.
Peace.
And I want to further examine that arguement.
Peace.
If I may use my own family as an example of the useless theory of evolution and its lack of continuity. My great great great grandfather didnot evolve, my great great grandfather didnot evolve, my great grandfather showed absolutely no signs of evolution, so the theory of evolution has some serious gaps in its thesis. None of us are evolving, and none of your children will evolve. Human bodies have showed no evolutional change at ALL in any period you may choose from the last 14,000 years. NOTHING on the human body has changed! Absolutely NOTHING! Yet many still adhere to such an erie belief. And let me explain why their Consciousness has accepted such an unconscious theory.
Peace.
Consciousness in Primordal Man?
If we are to believe in a great power, or a great theory, then it must show continuity, don't you think so? Well in my view, I do, it must be continous. The theory of evolution is NOT continous in any factual examination of it. Animals continued, humans continued, earth continued, these are continous, as is Consciousness itself. Consciousness has a definte Continuity, and primordal mans Consciousness cannot be traced or cataloged in any science or proof of Conscious thought that I am satisfied with.
I must then state with no doubt at all, that the theory of evolution has distorted the historical track of human consciousness and disabled many minds in their view of where Consciousness came from and how human awareness began.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
I must then state with no doubt at all, that the theory of evolution has distorted the historical track of human consciousness and disabled many minds in their view of where Consciousness came from and how human awareness began.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.