Gays in the Military

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:32 pm

I support Gays serving openly in the military as opposed to "Don't Ask--Don't Tell", however, I listened to some commentary this afternoon that posed the following questions. Will military chaplains be obliged to perform marriages for Gay military?

Will the government be obliged to provide housing for married Gay couples? Will military benefits to surviving Gay spouses be available?

What's your thinking on this?

southern yankee · Post by **southern yankee** » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:50 pm

Lon;1288636 wrote: I support Gays serving openly in the military as opposed to "Don't Ask--Don't Tell", however, I listened to some commentary this afternoon that posed the following questions. Will military chaplains be obliged to perform marriages for Gay military?

Will the government be obliged to provide housing for married Gay couples? Will military benefits to surviving Gay spouses be available?

What's your thinking on this?If you are willing and able to defend your country. why should it matter if you are gay or straight??

Yes, also, should include all the RIGHTS that straight people recieve. marriage,houseing,med. and so on. I can't see for the life of me. What is the BIG deal. They are willing to die for their country. It is their country too, Arn't all men (women) created equal?. Last time i looked that was part of the Bill of rights.

Omni_Skittles · Post by **Omni_Skittles** » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:19 pm

hmmm question... Do they consider being gay a birth defect? cause if so.. the military could totally be like well sorry we don't allow that in the military... i mean they don't let people with bad vision, flat feet, and correct me if i'm wrong but can woman not fight infantry? So... hmmm thoughts on that? Make fun of me... tell me i'm wrong... i don't but i'm curious about that

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:31 pm

Ok if you keep queers seperated from straights. Few straights would want to be in the showers with a bunch of guys and have one stare at someone while masturbating. :-3

G#Gill · Post by **G#Gill** » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:00 pm

Is this a homophobic thread? I really hope not.

When a human being is born, they have various genes. Some humans are born as a male but have more female genes in them than male genes, and as the body grows, so these genes manifest themselves, and although the body may look male, they are more female inside, because of the genes. This of course, also applies to humans that are born as female, but have more male genes. This is something which those particular humans cannot help.

Those humans that are born male and have the correct balance of male genes in them are fortunate, as are the females with the correct balance of female genes.

When you sneer, slag off, or are generally nasty to these unfortunate people, you have no idea what it is like to be as they are. They know that they have been put together incorrectly, so the mental torment that occurs is sometimes quite unmanageable. They cannot help it. They have a handicap. This handicap is mostly not obvious, like somebody who was born with a deformed leg, or twisted spine is visibly obvious.

But homosexuals try to make the best of their lives, most of them keep quiet about their handicap because of all the crap that is dished out to them. How many homosexuals commit suicide? Does anybody ask why? Does anybody care even? Try, if you can, to put yourselves in their position. How would you feel, and how would you cope with your handicap, how would you deal with the snide comments, the insults, and even the physical violence delivered by ignorant fools who obviously fear you, because they have no understanding of what you have to deal with in your life.

There must be hundreds of thousands of homosexuals who keep their sexuality secret, because of peoples attitude towards the homosexual. Many keep themselves celibate, maybe because they cannot find a partner to share their life with, or maybe because, deep down they feel different, that they know that the sex act is to procreate the human being, but they would not be able to do this with somebody of the opposite sex, so they shut themselves away from the act of sex.

How many 'celebrities' are, or were, homosexuals? Quite a lot, probably more than one can imagine. Many never disclose their sexuality, so nobody is any the wiser. Some even marry somebody of the opposite sex in order to keep up the pretence, but they are never really happy, and mostly the marriage fails.

So many people have fixed ideas about homosexuals, the fact that many people call them 'queers' is testimony to that. Being homosexual is a handicap, an accident of birth, something which just happens, which cannot be helped. Like somebody born with no sight, or six fingers on each hand, or a mal-formed arm.

It is unfortunate that some homosexual males sound very effeminate, or 'camp' as they seem to be called, and some of these actually play on this, making their voices sound far more feminine than they really are. This does not really help their cause, because mostly they have the 'micky' taken out of them, usually behind their backs. After all, men are supposed to sound masculine aren't they?

Also, in entertainment, if an actor needs to depict a homosexual, they usually try to talk in an effeminate manner to be more convincing. When, in reality, the homosexual male talks like any other male, and many of them have very deep voices. In fact, most of the homosexual males are undetectable, and the only way one can tell that they are homosexual is if they actually admit their sexuality.

One thought ................ nature is a wonderful thing. The world is over-populated

and it is getting more difficult to feed the human race, so the population must reduce in quantity. How would nature do that? Develop a plague to kill millions, cause nations to rise against each other in war and kill millions, or perhaps cause humans to reproduce offspring that will not procreate. Could this be why there seems to be an increase in homosexuality? Just a thought, but never under estimate nature, and nature's need for balance.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:32 pm

hoppy;1288661 wrote: Ok if you keep queers seperated from straights. Few straights would want to be in the showers with a bunch of guys and have one stare at someone while masturbating. :-3Another ridiculous comment, Hoppy. When I was in the Navy we knew who at least some of the gay sailors were and none of what you described ever happened.

Get a life for gods sake, some of the things you say are so idiotic. :wah:

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:33 pm

Omni_Skittles;1288647 wrote: hmmm question... Do they consider being gay a birth defect? cause if so.. the military could totally be like well sorry we don't allow that in the military... i mean they don't let people with bad vision, flat feet, and correct me if i'm wrong but can woman not fight infantry? So... hmmm thoughts on that? Make fun of me... tell me i'm wrong... i don't but i'm curious about thatBeing gay is no more a birth defect than having red hair. Anyone who thinks its a birth defect is just plain stupid.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:40 pm

Lon;1288636 wrote: I support Gays serving openly in the military as opposed to "Don't Ask--Don't Tell", however, I listened to some commentary this afternoon that posed the following questions. Will military chaplains be obliged to perform marriages for Gay military?

Will the government be obliged to provide housing for married Gay couples? Will military benefits to surviving Gay spouses be available?

What's your thinking on this?I'm thinking the military may not recognize gay marriage until the federal government does, which hopefully will occur soon. The gay issue is coming at the homophobes in almost every direction now.

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:15 pm

Ahso!;1288680 wrote: Another ridiculous comment, Hoppy. When I was in the Navy we knew who at least some of the gay sailors were and none of what you described ever happened.

Get a life for gods sake, some of the things you say are so idiotic. :wah:

One day you'll realize, that ol' hop was more right than wrong. :p

G#Gill · Post by **G#Gill** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:00 am

hoppy;1288688 wrote: One day you'll realize, that ol' hop was more right than wrong. :p

You sound as if you have had experience of this shower activity?

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:06 am

G#Gill;1288703 wrote: You sound as if you have had experience of this shower activity?

Not me. Ahso is the one who was in the Navy and kept an eye on 'em.:yh_rotfl

G#Gill · Post by **G#Gill** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:33 am

hoppy;1288706 wrote: Not me. Ahso is the one who was in the Navy and kept an eye on 'em.:yh_rotfl

Silly arse ! :wah:

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:20 am

Lon;1288636 wrote: I support Gays serving openly in the military as opposed to "Don't Ask--Don't Tell", however, I listened to some commentary this afternoon that posed the following questions. Will military chaplains be obliged to perform marriages for Gay military?

Will the government be obliged to provide housing for married Gay couples? Will military benefits to surviving Gay spouses be available?

What's your thinking on this?

I would think the chaplains would be bound by law -are bases bound by federal law or the state on which they sit? Same with every other item you mention above.

along-for-the-ride · Post by **along-for-the-ride** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:43 am

One's sexual preference is personal.That goes for hetersexuals as well as homosexuals. Sexual preferences does not enter into the workplace, including the military. One is there to do a job. Period. If the job involves working as a team, one is still required to do a job with others. Period.

On one's own time or "off the clock", so to speak, one is free to live as they choose. As a hetersexual. As a homosexual. Or alone. I flinch at any kind of government control on a personal sexual preference. That is except any sexual preference that harms children or involves rape.

JMO

Omni_Skittles · Post by **Omni_Skittles** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:59 pm

Ahso!;1288681 wrote: Being gay is no more a birth defect than having red hair. Anyone who thinks its a birth defect is just plain stupid.well sadly there are those who will argue that it is... I mean c'mon the military even discriminates against height... and that's not always a birth deffect... But here's the thing... it's normal for people to be born with different hair colors, what's not normal (at least yet) is for a boy to be born in a girls body... which is why supposedly they have this need or want to change... and really? c'mon just because someone doesn't agree with your views you're just going to slap the word stupid on it? maybe we should let the people in the military vote since they are the ones who have to live with it...

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:20 pm

Omni_Skittles;1288808 wrote: well sadly there are those who will argue that it is... I mean c'mon the military even discriminates against height... and that's not always a birth deffect... But here's the thing... it's normal for people to be born with different hair colors, what's not normal (at least yet) is for a boy to be born in a girls body... which is why supposedly they have this need or want to change... and really? c'mon just because someone doesn't agree with your views you're just going to slap the word stupid on it? maybe we should let the people in the military vote since they are the ones who have to live with it...The point is that there is no such thing as a birth defect. Can you explain what that means?

From a religious standpoint, everyone is equal in God's eyes, or if you like: "God is no respecter of persons."

From an evolutionary viewpoint, there are no defects, only mutations and adaptations.

From a humanistic view: 'you're okay, I'm okay."

From an atheistic view: it's proof there is no God.

What's left? To think that there are defects or disorders in others is arrogance of the strongest degree.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:55 pm

Omni_Skittles;1288808 wrote: well sadly there are those who will argue that it is... I mean c'mon the military even discriminates against height... and that's not always a birth deffect... But here's the thing... it's normal for people to be born with different hair colors, what's not normal (at least yet) is for a boy to be born in a girls body... which is why supposedly they have this need or want to change... and really? c'mon just because someone doesn't agree with your views you're just going to slap the word stupid on it? maybe we should let the people in the military vote since they are the ones who have to live with it...

I'd say it's more of a genetic trait then a defect.

I'm one of seven children. One of those can wiggle his ears. No kidding - visible from across the room when you are trying to keep a straight face because you are being smacked by your mother. Although we accused him often of being defected, in reality, it was simply something unexplainable that he was born with that the rest of us weren't.

Sexual orientation would be more of a different trait, then someone who looks female on the outside yet internally and genetically, they return totally male results. That person trapped in the wrong sexed body is actually heterosexual - we just can't see that when looking at their packaging, IMO

And I don't view your question as stupid. You are one of the bravest and open kids I read on line. You are willing to ask non-PC questions to satisfy your curiosity and understand folks with a different point of view. You don't have to agree with me or anyone else on any topic but you are always interesting and to the point.:-6

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:04 pm

My apologies if it sounded like I was calling OS stupid, I wasn't. My use of the word was deliberate because there has to come a time when homophobia must be labeled what it essentially is, and that is, "stupidity."

OS, I think you're a fine person (for whatever thats worth to you).

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:01 pm

hoppy;1288661 wrote: Ok if you keep queers seperated from straights. Few straights would want to be in the showers with a bunch of guys and have one stare at someone while masturbating. :-3

I feel sorry for you and your mind.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:08 am

flopstock;1288821 wrote: I'd say it's more of a genetic trait then a defect.

I'm one of seven children. One of those can wiggle his ears. No kidding - visible from across the room when you are trying to keep a straight face because you are being smacked by your mother. Although we accused him often of being defected, in reality, it was simply something unexplainable that he was born with that the rest of us weren't.

:-6I can wiggle My ears!:D

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:17 am

Scrat;1288853 wrote: I don't believe being gay is a result of genetics, it's behavioral or hormonal. Gays are not genetic freaks. I think its hormonal.Why did you associate "freaks" with "genetics"? Just curious.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:30 am

Whatever it is it's a fact of life and has been since the beginning of time. The question is should we let the prejudice and fear of a vocal minority determine how we treat a large section of the population. If you are somehow less of man or because there is a homosexual standing next to you, in combat or anywhere else, then probably you're not very much of one in the first place.

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:46 am

gmc;1288867 wrote: Whatever it is it's a fact of life and has been since the beginning of time. The question is should we let the prejudice and fear of a vocal minority determine how we treat a large section of the population. If you are somehow less of man or because there is a homosexual standing next to you, in combat or anywhere else, then probably you're not very much of one in the first place.

If I'm in combat, the soldier next to me better not be lookin at my butt.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:47 am

hoppy;1288877 wrote: If I'm in combat, the soldier next to me better not be lookin at my butt.:(Not to worry, Hoppy, You'd never put yourself in that situation......combat that is.

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:59 am

Ahso!;1288881 wrote: Not to worry, Hoppy, You'd never put yourself in that situation......combat that is.

You don't know sh!t about me, a$$hole.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:20 am

hoppy;1288884 wrote: You don't know sh!t about me, a$$hole. :mad:And you don't know anything about anyone else. When you stop making assumptions about others, I'll stop making assumptions about you.

Implying the only thing gay people are interested in is sex and that they are completely preoccupied with looking at other mens asses is simply wrong, insulting and homophobic.

Since none of them appear to be in this forum, I'll take their place in defense of their dignity.

Be polite and so shall I.

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:26 am

Ahso!;1288886 wrote: And you don't know anything about anyone else. When you stop making assumptions about others, I'll stop making assumptions about you.

Implying the only thing gay people are interested in is sex and that they are completely preoccupied with looking at other mens asses is simply wrong, insulting and homophobic.

Since none of them appear to be in this forum, I'll take their place in defense of their dignity.

Be polite and so shall I.

So you don't deny your an a$$hole.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:30 am

hoppy;1288888 wrote: So you don't deny your an a$$hole.I can be anything you Like.:wah:

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:51 am

I'm wondering how many gays you've had to deal with. There probably are some "decent" gays about. I form my assumptions based on my experience. And my experience was in workplaces and involved loud, obnoxious, pushy types who dared you to say or do anything. In some cases I blame the company. After they hired a few, saw how they were behaving, the company did nothing and continued hiring all their gay friends. I've seen good help quit because of harassment by gays. And I had to deal with one of the more insistant types when no one was watching.

So, defend them all you want. I don't like gays. I don't want them around me. And I don't think much of people who brag about their gay friends and trot them out to show off at their parties.

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:52 am

Lon;1288636 wrote: I support Gays serving openly in the military as opposed to "Don't Ask--Don't Tell", however, I listened to some commentary this afternoon that posed the following questions. Will military chaplains be obliged to perform marriages for Gay military?

Will the government be obliged to provide housing for married Gay couples? Will military benefits to surviving Gay spouses be available?

What's your thinking on this?

Seems to me like this thread has gone way off the track here and haven't really read any responses to all the OP's questions. I've read a lot of personal attacks and "gay bashing" remarks that had nothing to do with the questions in this thread.

I will now answer the questions: The answers (IMO) are all no until gay marriage is recognized as a legal partnership in all states.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:13 am

hoppy;1288892 wrote: I'm wondering how many gays you've had to deal with. There probably are some "decent" gays about. I form my assumptions based on my experience. And my experience was in workplaces and involved loud, obnoxious, pushy types who dared you to say or do anything. In some cases I blame the company. After they hired a few, saw how they were behaving, the company did nothing and continued hiring all their gay friends. I've seen good help quit because of harassment by gays. And I had to deal with one of the more insistant types when no one was watching.

So, defend them all you want. I don't like gays. I don't want them around me. And I don't think much of people who brag about their gay friends and trot them out to show off at their parties.

none of it would matter in any setting including the workplace if a sore spot didn't already exist. Gay people are no different than anyone else. If nearly anyone senses a weakness in others they might exploit that weakness. In this case its was homophobia.

Just as you don't like gay's around you, gay's don't like homophobes around them. One will most likely chase the other out, and it sounds like the gay people won that battle where you worked. Thats the nature of multi level group selection.

Of course the other alternative is to permit people to be who they are, not try to change them and shove ones beliefs or lifestyle down the others throat. We know both gays and christians attempt to do that.

The religious right has been asking for this fight for a long time and the tide is changing in favor of recognition of equal and civil rights for all, and the christian community doesn't like that. That brand of religious bigotry is dying, and those of you who want religion to survive had better wake up to the 21st century or all your traditions and rituals will be a thing of the past. Your choice! I've already made mine.

I hear a chirp in the background!

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:20 am

The kids sometimes ask me, "Did you know of any gay fighter pilots when you were flying in the Air Force?"

I answer truthfully, "I'm sure there were some, but since that had nothing to do with our mission, I never knew about it.";)

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:33 am

hoppy;1288877 wrote: If I'm in combat, the soldier next to me better not be lookin at my butt.

You might consider that the problem is not gay people but rather the way you percieve gay people. That would place the responsibility to correct the situation directly on your shoulders.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:37 am

Yeah, Hoppy, if you don't want gays checking your ass out, don't flaunt it. They'll eat you alive on the witness stand.:wah:

Gay guy: But your honor, you should have seen the way he wore his pants and how he walked, swinging that thang back and forth.

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:42 am

Just as you don't like gay's around you, gay's don't like homophobes around them. One will most likely chase the other out, and it sounds like the gay people won that battle where you worked. Thats the nature of multi level group selection.

The company was losing until they grew some balls. They got more serious about enforcing certain rules. A number of gays, and straights, were sent packing. The ones remaining are keeping a lower profile.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:45 am

hoppy;1288906 wrote: The company was losing until they grew some balls. They got more serious about enforcing certain rules. A number of gays, and straights, were sent packing. The ones remaining are keeping a lower profile. See! I'm reminded of the joke you posted the other day about the sweet tea. It pays (literally) to learn to keep ones mouth closed.

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:47 am

Ahso!;1288905 wrote: Yeah, Hoppy, if you don't want gays checking your ass out, don't flaunt it. They'll eat you alive on the witness stand.:wah:

Gay guy: But your honor, you should have seen the way he wore his pants and how he walked, swinging that thang back and forth.

I doubt it. I was in court for thumping a gay once, in a bar. Everyone there saw the gay put his hands on me first. No one saw me clobber him.:wah: Judge looked at the gay's face, said " I see no injuries. All of you get out of here".:wah:

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:49 am

This isnt meant as a slander just my truth. Id rather be stuck in a hole with a gay guy willing to risk his life for someone that hates him than a bigot.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:49 am

hoppy;1288909 wrote: I doubt it. I was in court for thumping a gay once, in a bar. Everyone there saw the gay put his hands on me first. No one saw me clobber him.:wah: Judge looked at the gay's face, said " I see no injuries. All of you get out of here".:wah:We need more gay judges. Thats all that means.:wah:

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:52 am

Nomad;1288910 wrote: This isnt meant as a slander just my truth. Id rather be stuck in a hole with a gay guy willing to risk his life for someone that hates him than a bigot.

Know any gays like that? I want a bigot on my side in a fight. Bigots are so full of hate, they won't quit fighting until it's over. Look to the taliban for proof of that.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:55 am

hoppy;1288913 wrote: Know any gays like that? I want a bigot on my side in a fight. Bigots are so full of hate, they won't quit fighting until it's over. Look to the taliban for proof of that.The problem is the longer you spend in that hole with the bigot, the chances of him hating you are increasing, so you had better hope its not a long battle or you're dead either way.

Bigots are like that, you know!

On the other hand, by your logic, if you've been blessed with a nice ass, that gay is going to want to keep you alive for as long as possible, right?

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:57 am

hoppy;1288913 wrote: Bigots are so full of hate

And therein lies the real problem. Think about it.

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:04 am

Ahso!;1288917 wrote: The problem is the longer you spend in that hole with the bigot, the chances of him hating you are increasing, so you had better hope its not a long battle or you're dead either way.

Bigots are like that, you know!

On the other hand, by your logic, if you've been blessed with a nice ass, that gay is going to want to keep you alive for as long as possible, right?

Well, I win then. I've had plenty of gals tell me I'm an ugly a$$.:yh_rotfl

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:26 am

I know Im wasting my time but I cant help myself and Im genuinely curious. Is this how you really want to spend the rest of your days, hating? In your last breathe do you think you will wish you could have hated more or will there be some regret?

You have a choice you know.

minks · Post by **minks** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:13 am

Nomad;1288936 wrote: I know Im wasting my time but I cant help myself and Im genuinely curious. Is this how you really want to spend the rest of your days, hating? In your last breathe do you think you will wish you could have hated more or will there be some regret?

You have a choice you know.

equal opportunity, if you are capable of the job you should get the job.

Geeze Hoppy sorry about your experiences. I will share mine with you,

I got a job, my boss was a woman who was an amazing boss, she was the presidents right hand person in operations she wore many hats and did every aspect of her job to perfection. Slowly over time she became a good friend of mine, then one day informed me she was gay. She was quick to assure me she had NO interest in me or any woman who was not of her "preference". We have worked together for quite a few years and remain very good friends. Never has she made me feel like she looks at me as a potential partner. She remains my very good friend and we still work together at a different company at different capacities.

In every demographic there are good and bad. Like Nomad said we can make choices.

Hoppy if I carried anger around as a trophy like you did I would be dead long long ago because of incidents where people of my "preference" played "hands on" with me.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:16 am

Funny thread, Like having Al Gore and Rush Limbaugh in the same room.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:18 am

YZGI;1288951 wrote: Funny thread, Like having Al Gore and Rush Limbaugh in the same room.Hoppy isn't going to take well to being referred to as Al Gore.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:20 am

Ahso!;1288952 wrote: Hoppy isn't going to take well to being referred to as Al Gore.
:yh_rotfl

Umm, your implication not mine.

minks · Post by **minks** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:24 am

YZGI;1288954 wrote: :yh_rotfl

Umm, your implication not mine.

To quote scooby doo, "roh roh" :yh_rotfl