Ukrainian elections. Turning point.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:38 pm

Most interesting. Thanks for that. I should be more knowledgeable about the whole area.

You sound as if you disapprove of the OSCE finding fraud....?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:06 pm

Clodhopper;1282916 wrote: Most interesting. Thanks for that. I should be more knowledgeable about the whole area.

You sound as if you disapprove of the OSCE finding fraud....?

Certainly, if they do so for political rather than electoral reasons.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:46 am

Well, seems they've declared the first round free and fair. Yushchenko has gone.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:10 pm

Yanukovich might be a stabilising influence. Interesting to see what his relations with the EU will be like.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:38 pm

With the collapse of the Soviet Union I think there's a feeling that NATO is not as important as it was. Gas and oil, yes, but in the longer term I suspect it's the food growing capacity that is going to be perhaps more important.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:41 pm

useful link if you want to see what is happening elsewhere in the world

International breaking news | euronews online world breaking news in video

Portuguese police foil ‘massive’ attack on Spain - Terrorism : news, world | euronews

http://www.euronews.net/2010/02/07/sara ... obama/:eek:

Never mind elections in russia if she ever gets elected in the us I think the rest of the world will give up on the states in despair

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:46 am

Scrat;1288804 wrote: So the Spanish police found this cache in Portugal? The reporter needs to give credit where credit is due. What were the Portuguese police doing? Sitting in a donut shop? :yh_rotfl

Anyway your links are to good sources, I really like Euronews. RT is a good source but not on the top of the list when it comes to trust. They're biased and kind of amateurish. The Faux News of Russia.

Latest I have on the elections from Gomelskaya Publica radio, Yanukovich is ahead. I couldn't understand all of it as the speaker talks too fast sometimes.

You lost me there-it's Portuguese police that made he find not spanish. Europeans generally work quite well together combating terrorism it's one of the reasons they find americans irritating since they carry on as of terrorism is somehow something new.

I tend to cross reference sources, it's startling sometimes the different ways of looking at the same incident.

http://www.euronews.net/2010/01/08/port ... riage-law/

Looks like the catholic church is losing the battle against tolerance.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:11 pm

Scrat;1288937 wrote: I'll do that and read a lot of the comments from the netizens, they can be very informative. Yanukovich has won the election but the people of Ukraine don't really think anything will change. They are downright cynical for the most part. He damn well better do something drastic.

Mixed reaction to Yanukovich victory - Elections : news, world | euronews

Then try the no comment tv channel

YouTube - nocommenttv's Channel

Eu extreme sports channels are better than the american ones-no lifestyle nonsense with semi articulate spotty oicks mumbling about life the universe and everything and only five minutes of action in a half hour film. they just show the sports.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:43 pm

Clodhopper. Ukraine will never step out of the second world until it gets rid of the oligarchs that run the country. Those capitalist fools care for only one thing. Bleeding as much money from the country as possible. Damn the people, damn the Russians, damn the Europeans so long as they don't mess with the real estate they buy on the Costa Del Sol in Spain and the French Riviera. Damn all except for them and what they can see within their small worlds.

Had the infrastructure of Ukraine been taken care of and expanded, had Yuschenko not told Belmash their stand behind tillers and small riding plows were "inefficient examples of old Soviet technology, therefore we don't want them" and chose to deal with European and American companies instead, Ukrainian farmers would be producing far more than they are now.

The new stuff costs 20 times as much, the parts supply line is 1000s of miles long in some cases. Belmash is mere hours away. Because of attitudes like this Ukrainian farmers can't even afford a freaking horse to plow their fields. 70% of Ukrainian farmland under produces.

Belarus shipped over a million of these units to Brazil, Argentina, Viet Nam, Indonesia and other places in 2007 alone. Case, John Deere, Ford New Holland paid off the Ukrainian politicians to keep the Belorussians out of the Ukrainian market. And you still see the vast majority of rural Ukrainians farming 1/3 of the land they could, and if they're doing really well they'll have a horse to pull the plow.

I think they will have to off a lot of rich morons in the Ukraine if they ever want to step into the real world. I don't think that will happen in the near future.

I'm in no position to argue. I know damn all about it. But I can't disagree with what you are saying. Intermediate technology, dammit! Raw capitalism - disaster except for the already rich.