Scots to legalise assisted suicide?

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:31 am

Just turned on the news and caught the tail end of this report. It seems that MSPs will get a free vote on legalising assisted suicide. There was an assurance that the legisalation is well put together with checks and balances to ensure it will not be abused. It is estimated that maybe 50 to 60 people a year would take advantage of it.

Good thing or bad thing?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:33 am

I'm not a Scot, but I think its advancement.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:38 am

Ahso!;1284104 wrote: I'm not a Scot, but I think its advancement.

Well, yes, I grant that it will reduce the overall number of Scots, but that wasn't really what I was thinking about. :yh_whistl

(Sorry, couldn't resist.

)

I take your point and agree with it.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:40 am

Clodhopper;1284106 wrote: Well, yes, I grant that it will reduce the overall number of Scots, but that wasn't really what I was thinking about. :yh_whistl

(Sorry, couldn't resist.

)

I take your point and agree with it.

:wah:

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:59 am

Good thing.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:11 am

Basically it's like a living will-where someone can decide that no medical care be given in some circumstances. They can ask to be given drugs to kill themselves while still capable of making a rational decision about it. at least it removes the burden of having to decide from the family. Live as a vegetable or in great pain or die, it's a choice only the person concerned can make and they shouldn't have someone else's religious objections foisted on them and it is the religious groups that are up in arms about it-in between abusing children and picking on homosexuals.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:25 am

One thing is sure - there will be a number of people from the rest of the UK trying to use that legislation. Possibly having to move to Scotland to do so.

I would imagine that the legislation, if passed, will lead to similar legislation in England and Wales. Not sure how NI will react.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:27 am

Now us Americans won't have to go to Switzerland.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:30 am

Clodhopper;1284126 wrote: One's thing is sure - there will be a number of people from the rest of the UK trying to use that legislation. Possibly having to move to Scotland to do so.

I would imagine that the legislation, if passed, will lead to similar legislation in England and Wales. Not sure how NI will react.

See Scotland and die-not sure it's that good a tourist slogan:-3

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:34 am

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:28 am

I think the idea is repulsive. Dying is a part of living. Fear is what is driving this legislation. Fear of pain, fear of suffering. This generation of people are a bunch of whiney cowards if you ask me. They cant stand the idea of anything but the soft, perfect ideal life. Well welcome to reality. Perhaps these are the same people who should have been aborted in the first place. If they are led by fear, then it is a weakening of human DNA.

This country already has brilliant end of life care in place. Just give these people a gun and let them get on with it. But nooooooooo, they want the NHS to do it. Cowards.

Well I can promise you I will NEVER! I will die as I live. With courage to face whatever end is mine. And dying is the last thing I will ever get to do, so I hope I do it well.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:16 am

Raven;1284413 wrote: I think the idea is repulsive. Dying is a part of living. Fear is what is driving this legislation. Fear of pain, fear of suffering. This generation of people are a bunch of whiney cowards if you ask me. They cant stand the idea of anything but the soft, perfect ideal life. Well welcome to reality. Perhaps these are the same people who should have been aborted in the first place. If they are led by fear, then it is a weakening of human DNA.

This country already has brilliant end of life care in place. Just give these people a gun and let them get on with it. But nooooooooo, they want the NHS to do it. Cowards.

Well I can promise you I will NEVER! I will die as I live. With courage to face whatever end is mine. And dying is the last thing I will ever get to do, so I hope I do it well.

If you want to suffer and die good luck to you but that is your choice to make but what of someone with a degenerative illness that knows they will get to the point they will be unable to kill themselves but want to enjoy life while they can why should they not be able to take the decision to end their life and ask that they be assisted to end their life when they choose?

Someone with alzheimers for instance-why should they not be able to take the decision that at a certain point they want their life to end. Arguably with full dementia the person has already gone. As it stands if a family member or member of staff takes action at their request they are charged with murder. They can already decide whether resuscitation attempts should be made in the event of cardiac failure or something is there any real difference between letting someone die when you know they could be kept alive for a while longer or helping them end their life when they find it unbearable

?

The recent case the woman was in full possession of her mental faculties but incapable of the physical act of killing herself. why should the choice be denied her.

We increasingly can keep people alive beyond the point they would have died "naturally" in earlier times. It should be an individual's choice and not one forced on them.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:40 am

Yet again Scotland is showing how progressive they can be in the nature of the laws they are passing, as opposed to us in England who are sadly lagging behind a generation or two.

Its a huge leap forward. We seem to find it acceptable to euthanise a suffering animal because it is the right and proper thing to do - negate the pain and suffering - a humane thing to do, yet deny the same humane actions to those who wish it for themselves. There are many documented cases where assisted suicide would be wholly appropriate and right. Its about individual choice. It may not be for some but I feel legalising it is a correct step and not in the least bit cowardly

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:11 pm

There is obviously a potential for abuse but tell me, if you knew dementia was going to mean you would end up a little better than a vegetable and could make a choice like this what would you do? I know people caring for relatives in the last stages-the last memories of them is not of them as they were and it can tear families apart especially if siblings don't take a fair share of the responsibility. I've seen people lying completely immobile in beds and their minds have gone as well and all the carers are doing is feeding them and then wiping up the resulting **** and ****. Personally I think the person died a long time ago- dying well is not an option.

minks · Post by **minks** » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:51 am

another vote for good thing.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:28 am

Clodhopper;1284102 wrote: Just turned on the news and caught the tail end of this report. It seems that MSPs will get a free vote on legalising assisted suicide. There was an assurance that the legisalation is well put together with checks and balances to ensure it will not be abused. It is estimated that maybe 50 to 60 people a year would take advantage of it.

Good thing or bad thing?

It's a good thing. My mother died from Lou Gehrig's Disease. If you've ever seen someone's body die while their mind is still bright, but trapped in a coffin-body and unable to communicate in any way or enjoy anything about life while being kept alive solely by machines, you'd feel the same way.

Sometimes, death is a merciful release.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:29 am

Raven;1284413 wrote: Dying is a part of living..

Unless, of course, you are suffering a living death...

Raven, your response was not deliberately callous, just uninformed.

minks · Post by **minks** » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:30 am

However, this article may change ones mind.....

Giving the 'unconscious' a voice - health - 03 February 2010 - New Scientist

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:40 am

minks;1288129 wrote: However, this article may change ones mind.....

Giving the 'unconscious' a voice - health - 03 February 2010 - New Scientist

Completely different scenario. With assisted suicide they are talking about people who are able to make a decision for themselves that they want help to end their lives when they are incapable of doing it themselves at a point of their own choosing and can communicate that fact.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:36 am

Can you imagine lying in bed, machines pumping your blood, machines breathing for you, a tube stuck down your throat, a tube extending from your stomach, a catheter, and a colostomy bag taking away your wastes, unable to move, speak, talk, blink? then staying that way for years? Is that "living?"

What a nightmare. God forbid it.

minks · Post by **minks** » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:42 pm

Saint_;1288310 wrote: Can you imagine lying in bed, machines pumping your blood, machines breathing for you, a tube stuck down your throat, a tube extending from your stomach, a catheter, and a colostomy bag taking away your wastes, unable to move, speak, talk, blink? then staying that way for years? Is that "living?"

What a nightmare. God forbid it.

precisely NO!

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:55 pm

I'd have to imagine killing one's self would be the easiest result anyone could achieve!

They could google "easiest way to kill yourself!"

or somepeden like a dat!

I wouldn't suggest using an elephant gun because one would need an extensive blueprint, not to mention that it's utterly discourteous to not have cleaners set up to move in to clean up all of their waist(AND I DO MEAN "WAIST" BECAUSE THAT'S ALL THAT'D BE LEFT OF THE INDIVIDUAL IF THEY'D DECIDED TO USE AN ELEPHANT GUN FFS!)

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:36 pm

Dear Raven, your commitment is a credit to you. Admire like mad.

But when my Mum's liver cancer got too bad, they put her to bed at home with a morphine drip, the control of which was in her hand. She didn't last the night. I'm very grateful. I truly believe she is too. I didn't have a good relationship with my mother, but I wouldn't have wished that sort of pain on her and I know she wanted control, especially over her end.

The doctor in question could probably be charged with a criminal offence. I don't want that. I want him around when I'm in that state.