Racism

[lady cop]

there's been some discussion about the role racism may have played in the new orleans disaster. in a nutshell i feel it was more of a poverty issue, but you cannot separate race from poverty in America. i think a discussion of racism would be timely. what are your views of the real state of racism in America? or in the country where you live?

[Lon]

There is no question that Racisim is alive and well in America, just as it is everywhere else in the world. The difference I believe, is whether it exists on an individual basis or as a matter of public policy. The Equal Rights Amendment did much to take care of some of the public policy racisim. On a individual basis, it will never be eliminated. I loathe those that scream racisim when they can't get what they want or claim you are racist if you disagree with them on anything. Example--------Much of the poverty that exists in a large part of the African American community is due to Black women trying to raise familes with no financial or familial support from the fathers. Now this statement is a fact, but yet, it's considered Politically Incorrect and even racist by some.

[turbonium]

Hi LC! Well, up here racism does exist (where doesn't it?) but the situations that arise are far less intense and on a smaller scale than in the US. The LA/Rodney King type of riots would have no chance of happening here, because of our different demographics and racial history. Past and present black/white conflicts in America really have no parallel to compare with in Canada.

[Clint]

I think we have come a long way since the 60s. It seems to me that races are behaving better towards each other.

I have to wonder if it is a matter of learning better behavior or if attitudes have changed. I tend to think we are just behaving better.

Those of us who have been in the military have learned respect for each other regardless of race. We have slept in the same room, showered in the same shower and taken meals at the same table together. That environment tends to make you forget differences in appearance. There, what’s inside a person surfaces and becomes what identifies them. Even so, and even there, there are those who refuse to turn loose of their bigotry.

[ProfessionalMoron]

flopstock wrote: Wonderfully sweet older lady at work was telling us this story one afternoon about something she and her colored friend Mary had done when she was younger. After everyone left I asked if she could tell me what 'colored' this friend was. She told me that she had given up years ago trying to stay current on what was and wasn't considered a correct term, she just used the expression that was considered respectful from when she was young. Gave me a ten minute lecture on the subject. Made a lot of sense, if you listened to her. White people have always been white people. No confusion there.



Then I ruined it for her. I asked her why she didn't just call her 'my friend mary'. Never spoke to me again..



I think we like to think we are more advanced then we are, but we are making progress.


You write wonderfully floppy....

Growing up in the "south" has taught me many things about "race". One thing I have learned is to appreciate being a racist, not a bigot......

Explanation: I certainly understand the difference between various genealogical inheritances (race)...... I also understand the incoherence people can experience when forgetting any and all common sense about our common goal (survival).

It would be rediculous for me to begin to try to explain why people do what they do, so...... I will respond to what you wrote.

I met a ..... ok, I used to "work" with...... a guy once who was very quiet. It was very difficult to get him to say much. When he would put in his CD after hours at work, he would somehow "wake up".... and dance around. I would run around doing "my thing" at work, doing my job. This type of job required a lot of vocal response. He offered next to none. I have never been much of a person stuck on race, and thought very little of innocent things I would say. Well... doing my normal thing, which no one really seemed to have a problem with, he suddenly spoke. The word "boy" was in a sentence I used. Well... low and behold, and God forbid the word boy come up... he told me never to call him "boy". So, I immediately recognized this upset him, regardles of my lack of intentions, and thought about it. It occured to me he was so irrevocably stuck in the past, there was nothing I could do but this:

I said: "Ok.... what if I call you "Bo"? Is that Ok?" (I tend to be a generous complementary person)

He said: "Yeah, that's fine."

So, I chuckled to myself. With innocent intent, I could get the point across by simply dropping the "y". From then on, "bo" was ok.

Later on that night, I sat him down and made it perfectly clear to him that the only one who perpetuates racism is the one who perpetuates racism.

Of course I tried to help the guy when I could, but, there's only so much a person can do for another who choses not to do for themself. Hopefully he met his goals in forensic science and is well on his way to making his family proud.



Lesson:

Semantics.

Every concious being knows times have changed, and will continue to do so. If "you" want to stay in the past, then stay there..... just don't EXPECT the rest of the world or universe to wallow in your misery with you.

I have a few more stories about this 19/20-year-old racist, but... well.... I'll leave it at that for now.

Have a good night folks!





There's a beautiful place out there... such a shame to waste....

[Bez]

Racism is within people the same as religious bigotry, often passed from generation to generation....I don't know how you can change this. I have interviewed and employed many people of other races and never look at the colour of their skin, only there ability to do the job. Where I live, there are not too many black people but those who do live here marry white folks quite happily and there a very few problems. There are problems in some big cities, but there is a lot of work going on to improve schools, community facilities etc...in some places the white people are resentful of these moves. On the radio the other day I heard a black guy really having a go about rampant racism in the UK...he then went on to rant away about slavery...a 400 yr old issue... The fact is , that the majority of black people here arrived from Jamaica etc during the 50s. 60s as part of a drive to increase the workforce. I cannot accurately explain the policy then, but I guess it tied in with the aftermath of WW11. (I'm sure I will be corrected on this !)

I agree that poverty is a big issue. ...but it is the same for all races.

It's a funny thing, but I am thinking very hard about the words i use here in case I offend. I feel frustrated about the whole issue and the inability to fully pass on how i feel...

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

I think here in the uk its a melting pot of emotions when i went to school there were only 3 or 4 kids that were not white in my class. now my daughter is one of 6 white kids in her class of 30 -so yes times have changed, but instead of other cultures trying to adapt to our way of life (when in rome)they seem to exclude themselves and want to build there own communities which actully exclude every body else.check the yellow pages how many charites there are out there, not one provides solely for english/white people im not saying i want one but if you can open a multi million pound hospital for victims of torture( refugees ) and open a doctors surgery just for Ethiopian woman then people are gonner feel resentful .

[chrisb84uk]

Racism is a pretty touchy subject where I live. In Birmingham, (the huge city next to where I live,) we always get huge gangland wars between the rival gangs of whites, blacks, asian and so on.

The amount of rival shootings that go on is pretty extreme there, and at least 75% of the time, when someone is killed on the streets, (could be anyone - old or young,) then the finger is immediately pointed out at a rival gang, simply becasue of theri colour or a general misconseption of those people. The way that a lot of Asians are being stopped in London at the moment, simply because of what they look like. People will then start accusing them of trouble and all this does is escalate the increase in hated and animosity between everyone.

Sadly I think that this will continue for a long time to come, as not one group doesn't appear to be willing enough to start any kind of peace talks. Nearly every week I am hearing of people being killed on the streets of Birmingham in some sort of racist motivated attack, and it really is a sad state of affairs at the moment!!

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

I think race relations have got worse and i dont think they will ever get better i think people are frightened of being branded racist and therefore dont say what they really feel. forcing people to live together and telling them they have to get on just isnt enough.

[Accountable]

pantsonfire321@aol.com wrote: I think race relations have got worse and i dont think they will ever get better i think people are frightened of being branded racist and therefore dont say what they really feel. forcing people to live together and telling them they have to get on just isnt enough.
What is enough?

[Bez]

pantsonfire321@aol.com wrote: I think here in the uk its a melting pot of emotions when i went to school there were only 3 or 4 kids that were not white in my class. now my daughter is one of 6 white kids in her class of 30 -so yes times have changed, but instead of other cultures trying to adapt to our way of life (when in rome)they seem to exclude themselves and want to build there own communities which actully exclude every body else.check the yellow pages how many charites there are out there, not one provides solely for english/white people im not saying i want one but if you can open a multi million pound hospital for victims of torture( refugees ) and open a doctors surgery just for Ethiopian woman then people are gonner feel resentful .


I agree

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

ACC - I dont have any answers, i just think if you put 40 people in a room you will have some that dont get on so if you force 40 nationalities to live next to one another an say now go play it will have problems. i just think we all have a duty to try and get on - it just drives me mad when i hear people say i didnt get this or that because a million years ago my ancesters were slaves -

[Bez]

canaan wrote: You called him 'boy'?! What were you thinking? :p



I'm so glad you wrote this ... this almost sums up my frustration. Almost. I live in the south and have a few friends from up north who think we are still racist here. It's ridiculous really. Now of course I'm not saying that there are none! I'm sure there are pockets of trashy people who have nothing better to do than hate. But it's not common. I'll tell you what is common though ... blacks (not sure I'm up to date with my PC term for african americans so if blacks is no longer acceptable, my apologies ) who want to call you a racist. It doesn't have to be much... you could look at them and not smile/take the last bag of chips at the store/pass them on the freeway/not offer them a piece of gum from your purse/not invite their kids to a birthday party *even though I have no idea who their kids are, this doesn't matter*. :rolleyes: I could go on and you still wouldn't understand how tired that statement is. It has been so overused that it isn't even effective anymore. Politicians only use it because they want to keep in good standing with the black community. And sadly enough, that is all it takes with some people. It's not helping. If anything it is making people more bitter. I can call a white guy who sits around and does nothing while his kids run out in road a lazy bum who needs to find a job and take care of his kids...and it's fine, I'm right, good for me for telling him! Tell a black man same circumstances the same thing and I'm a racist.

Even now, I'm thinking 'you better hush, if you keep on like this they are going to think you hate black people' :wah: That is just how we live here. I don't hate anyone. I don't dislike anyone because of skin color... go to the dump, trash comes in all different sizes and colors.

I think I'll stop while I'm ahead.



carry on...


This exactly what I wanted to say earlier. You have said it perfectly....

[BabyRider]

Frankly, I think a person's attitude about other races has a lot to do with geography. Where I come from, blacks have done it to themselves. I see them having the highest high-school drop-out ratio, the highest crime rate, more of them are on welfare, more of them have illigitimate children, more of them are jobless. This is not an opinion, this is a fact. While they have done this TO THEMSELVES, they sit here screaming for more. Give us a handout because "The Man" is keeping us down. Hand us our due, on a silver platter, because we're black. Really? Show me something. Stay in school, become educated, get a job and WORK for what you want and I'll be impressed. Quit stealing from others and killing each other over a crack rock in the street and then I'll say you are making an effort to change your own circumstances. The circumstances you yourself have created.

[BabyRider]

People are people when they act like human beings. When they act like theiving, doping, gang-banging, illiterate animals, they should expect to be treated as such.

And children? Don't even get me started. Tell your "children" theory to the 12 year-old that sells rock at the corner of State Fair and I-75 within sight of the clubhouse, while packing a glock. Tell that theory to the group of 14 and 15 year-olds who jumped my friend 2 weeks ago and took his SHOES, of all things.

I've said before that I know plenty of white, hispanic, asian and pick your race who can be lumped in with the rest. But when the VAST, overwhelming, staggering majority is black, you kinda get a clue.

[actionfigurestepho]

Where I live, you are white trash regardless of your color or age.

I live right next door to the largest hispanic community in the midwest, and yes, 80% of the community is "white trash."

In this area it's more economics. We get along because we're all poor.

We all shop at Wal Mart, we all wear socks and sandals together and we all think Taco Bell is fine Mex-American cuisine. The teen pregnancy rate is staggering, and we're a community of smokers. A lot of the younger generation is learning to speak Spanglish.

It's actually kind of nice to be united in our tackiness.

Since we don't have a huge difference in financial status, it's easier to be friendly to anyone you pass on the street. We're just people doing our jobs, trying to survive. Economics is our common denominator.

It's actually one of the nice things about NE Ohio.

[Accountable]

actionfigurestepho wrote: In this area it's more economics. We get along because we're all poor.

We all shop at Wal Mart, we all wear socks and sandals together and we all think Taco Bell is fine Mex-American cuisine. The teen pregnancy rate is staggering, and we're a community of smokers.
I don't get it. You write this as though it's not ... I don't know ... acceptable - or normal. :-2



Of course, I didn't get the joke in King of the Hill the first season, either.

[actionfigurestepho]

Accountable wrote: I don't get it. You write this as though it's not ... I don't know ... acceptable - or normal. :-2




All of those things in and of themselves are great...but combined with...well...EVERYTHING in this area it's just a wee bit much! I guess you'd have to live here to get it.

[Accountable]

actionfigurestepho wrote: All of those things in and of themselves are great...but combined with...well...EVERYTHING in this area it's just a wee bit much! I guess you'd have to live here to get it.
I think I grew up there.

[Nomad]

ProfessionalMoron wrote: You write wonderfully floppy....



Growing up in the "south" has taught me many things about "race". One thing I have learned is to appreciate being a racist, not a bigot......



Explanation: I certainly understand the difference between various genealogical inheritances (race)...... I also understand the incoherence people can experience when forgetting any and all common sense about our common goal (survival).



It would be rediculous for me to begin to try to explain why people do what they do, so...... I will respond to what you wrote.



I met a ..... ok, I used to "work" with...... a guy once who was very quiet. It was very difficult to get him to say much. When he would put in his CD after hours at work, he would somehow "wake up".... and dance around. I would run around doing "my thing" at work, doing my job. This type of job required a lot of vocal response. He offered next to none. I have never been much of a person stuck on race, and thought very little of innocent things I would say. Well... doing my normal thing, which no one really seemed to have a problem with, he suddenly spoke. The word "boy" was in a sentence I used. Well... low and behold, and God forbid the word boy come up... he told me never to call him "boy". So, I immediately recognized this upset him, regardles of my lack of intentions, and thought about it. It occured to me he was so irrevocably stuck in the past, there was nothing I could do but this:



I said: "Ok.... what if I call you "Bo"? Is that Ok?" (I tend to be a generous complementary person)



He said: "Yeah, that's fine."



So, I chuckled to myself. With innocent intent, I could get the point across by simply dropping the "y". From then on, "bo" was ok.



Later on that night, I sat him down and made it perfectly clear to him that the only one who perpetuates racism is the one who perpetuates racism.



Of course I tried to help the guy when I could, but, there's only so much a person can do for another who choses not to do for themself. Hopefully he met his goals in forensic science and is well on his way to making his family proud.







Lesson:

Semantics.

Every concious being knows times have changed, and will continue to do so. If "you" want to stay in the past, then stay there..... just don't EXPECT the rest of the world or universe to wallow in your misery with you.



I have a few more stories about this 19/20-year-old racist, but... well.... I'll leave it at that for now.



Have a good night folks!











There's a beautiful place out there... such a shame to waste....




You are absolutely correct sir !





You are a moron.

[ProfessionalMoron]

Nomad wrote: You are absolutely correct sir !





You are a moron.


:-3 Darn, I was hoping no one would notice...oh, well... can't hide from the truth.



.... but, umm... could you please be a little more specific?

[Accountable]

ProfessionalMoron wrote: :-3 Darn, I was hoping no one would notice...oh, well... can't hide from the truth.





.... but, umm... could you please be a little more specific?
On the off chance that it might do some good:



Your intention was irrelevant. Insult is in the ear of the receiver. If you truly have respect for your fellow man, consider that before responding. Did he over-react? Probably. The best you could have done was probably let it go. Giving a smartass response is maliciously insulting and only exacerbates the problem.

[ProfessionalMoron]

Accountable wrote: On the off chance that it might do some good:



Your intention was irrelevant.


I believe you have stated, in a nutshell, what could very well be the heart of the problem. My intention (or lack of) was, in fact, very relevant, because it was my assumed intention that was in question. We had found a ripple in our communication.

Accountable wrote: Insult is in the ear of the receiver. If you truly have respect for your fellow man, consider that before responding. Did he over-react? Probably. The best you could have done was probably let it go. Giving a smartass response is maliciously insulting and only exacerbates the problem.


First, you are true. I don't always think before I speak. I tend to assume people are automatically smarter and wiser than I, and can "read my mind". Therefore, it has taken a while to learn when to shut up. The thing is, should I REALLY have to walk on pins and needles over simple things? Of course I have respect for my fellow man, yet, in a restaurant kitchen during "rush hours", a person doesn't always have time for piddling things like this issue. Perhaps it would have been easier for him to realize what I said had absolutely NOTHING to do with what he was immediately thinking it did.

Second, I was trying to keep a complicated story short. So, I'm sure I didn't describe things properly (and might not ever). The use of the word "boy" was... well.... Have you ever heard someone say "Yeah, boy!" in excitement for an accomplishment or something... not superiority? I don't remember exactly what I said, but it was along those lines. Did he over-react? Absolutely.

My "...drop the "y"..." response was only sort-of smartass, and was preceded by an apology (for something I know I didn't do). After knowing there was probably over-active senstivity going on, I thought it pertinent to know the dynamics of it (we worked in a very hot, and fast-paced environment). I found out, very effectively, what state of mind he was in. The dialog I gave of us was not complete or verbatim. We both walked away with a better understanding. He knew my intentions were not "maliciously insulting", and I learned he was sensitive to this word (regardless of his reasons).

With that being said, I still maintain my feeling about the situation. My genuine concern for people does not exactly justify complacency. Walking away from every situation gets nowhere, as does harping on details. So, I do find it strange how I am the only moron in this circumstance. But, whatever... I was merely sharing something that happened a long time ago.

After all was said and done, we both handled this infraction of his personal issues with civility.

I do appreciate constructive criticism, by the way. So, please, keep it up



P.S. I did let it go. I never did call him "Bo", or actually dwell on it after that. It would have been moronic.

[gimli3]

chrisb84uk wrote: Racism is a pretty touchy subject where I live. In Birmingham, (the huge city next to where I live,) we always get huge gangland wars between the rival gangs of whites, blacks, asian and so on.

The amount of rival shootings that go on is pretty extreme there, and at least 75% of the time, when someone is killed on the streets, (could be anyone - old or young,) then the finger is immediately pointed out at a rival gang, simply becasue of theri colour or a general misconseption of those people. The way that a lot of Asians are being stopped in London at the moment, simply because of what they look like. People will then start accusing them of trouble and all this does is escalate the increase in hated and animosity between everyone.

Sadly I think that this will continue for a long time to come, as not one group doesn't appear to be willing enough to start any kind of peace talks. Nearly every week I am hearing of people being killed on the streets of Birmingham in some sort of racist motivated attack, and it really is a sad state of affairs at the moment!!


:-5

In the UK at the moment, you have to be very very careful what you say.

Anything can be misunderstood.

Anything can be misinterpreted.

Wall have ears.

[Accountable]

ProfessionalMoron wrote: I believe you have stated, in a nutshell, what could very well be the heart of the problem. My intention (or lack of) was, in fact, very relevant, because it was my assumed intention that was in question. We had found a ripple in our communication.
I meant your intention when you said boy. The guy might have been looking for a reason to be offended, regardless of your intentions.



As for the rest, I use the down-home "yeah boy" or "yeah baby" all the time, usually accompanied with a hardy high-five. (damn that looks analytical when it's written out ). If someone had taken offense after a victory yell like that, I think I would've taken it as a joke and laughed heartily..... which likely would've gotten me in even more trouble.



Sounds like you're in a work hard, play hard environment. Been there. Often, paying attention to over-sensitivity does more harm than good in such places.



When I found myself in similar situations, if I felt the situation warranted it, I have mentioned it in a straight-up man-to-man approach such as: "Look man. We both work here & the best way to do a good job is to work as a team. I'd never f*** that up by intentionally pi$$ing you off. That would just make my job harder." Then either he would accept the olive branch, or I would ignore his retort and get back to work.

[Nomad]

Short & sweet....Its a skin color !!! Are there cultural differences ? Yes of course, so what ! Are there barriers ? Yes of course. So what ! Goes with the territory of being a human being.

My opinion ? Make it better for your children, its your responsibility to do so.

Starts with you, and you and me.

[Accountable]

Sounds like it's a hotbutton issue with you as much as it is with me. Are you sure you're not Accountable? I've heard rumors.

[Nomad]

We are one my friend. The worlds problems will continue to cause wars, perpetuate hate and misunderstanding with one another until we let down our weapons and shields and look eachother in the eye and begin to see our causes are not dissimilar. Essentially we all exist to the same end. It can be done. It takes a willingness an effort and less ego but it can be done. It starts in the home, teach your children well people !

[chonsigirl]

Oh, I heard Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young playing when you made those comments Nomad.........................

[Nomad]

They made a worthy statement.

[ProfessionalMoron]

Nomad wrote: Short & sweet....Its a skin color !!! Are there cultural differences ? Yes of course, so what ! Are there barriers ? Yes of course. So what ! Goes with the territory of being a human being.

My opinion ? Make it better for your children, its your responsibility to do so.

Starts with you, and you and me.


sigh....

this was almost exactly what i was thinking while being given the 3rd degree about something that never existed in my mind, or my will.

[Nomad]

Then theres no problem...your words however indicated a snide racist overtone thus the snide replies. Peace !

[Nomad]

OH OH !!! What can I do to send you over the edge ???

[ProfessionalMoron]

Nomad wrote: OH OH !!! What can I do to send you over the edge ???


not much



or.....



anything

[Nomad]

No I meant foopy, try it its really fun to annoy her. She gets all jitterbuggy and starts to twitch....go ahead give it a try.

[Accountable]

Aw, crap! here we go!

[ProfessionalMoron]

flopstock wrote: See now, I read it as more of a superiority complex then a case of you being racist. My thought was that this fella probably read you the same way. So he'd be more likely to take offense easier at something you said then he would at most other folks around him.Quite a bit of our perception is based on the source of input. If Lady Cop calls me a B!tch, I would laugh it off. if Clint did the same thing, I would be in analysis right now....


Floppy, once again, you have done well. I just need you to confirm which one you think had the superiority complex, so I can finish this thing.



I tried real hard to leave psychology out of this issue, but, oh well....

[ProfessionalMoron]

Accountable wrote: Aw, crap! here we go!


:-3 ..... :sneaky: ...... :driving:

[Nomad]

I know she didnt mean me so that leaves you & accountable, that accountable-hes so full of himself, he just needs a good swat from time to time so give it to him moron ! Give that accountable a good whack !

[Accountable]

Well, okay. But be gentle.

[Betty Boop]

Accountable wrote: Well, okay. But be gentle.






































:wah: How gentle????:sneaky:

[Accountable]

Betty Boop wrote: :wah: How gentle????:sneaky:
Wha'? :-2 HEY! What're you doing in ........ THIS ISN'T THE MEN'S LOCKER ROOM!

[Betty Boop]

Accountable wrote: Wha'? :-2 HEY! What're you doing in ........ THIS ISN'T THE MEN'S LOCKER ROOM!




Awww I'll be gentle ~ promise!!

[Accountable]

It must be paradise down here, because everything goes south sooner or later, even our conversations.

[Betty Boop]

Accountable wrote: It must be paradise down here, because everything goes south sooner or later, even our conversations.




...:yh_rotfl