Who can arrest you?

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Fri May 21, 2010 5:44 am

In your country, who may arrest you? Are there any special circumstances necessary for them to do so?

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri May 21, 2010 5:54 am

Actually, technically in the US, anyone can make an arrest of anyone they suspect of illegal activity, and detain them for the proper authorities.

bongbong · Post by **bongbong** » Fri May 21, 2010 12:49 pm

here in the uk anyone can make a citizens arrest

Post by **spot** » Fri May 21, 2010 1:10 pm

bongbong;1311591 wrote: here in the uk anyone can make a citizens arrest

In England and Wales anybody at all, man woman or child, citizen or visitor on holiday from abroad, can lawfully arrest me so long as certain conditions are met. If they happen to be a constable the conditions are a lot less restrictive.

Would anyone like to know the conditions, or is that too boring?

bongbong · Post by **bongbong** » Fri May 21, 2010 3:46 pm

no go on tell us

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri May 21, 2010 4:47 pm

Ive arrested most of you in my mind many times.

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Fri May 21, 2010 5:12 pm

Nomad;1311647 wrote: Ive arrested most of you in my mind many times.

Oh that is very scary Nomad....being in your mind...Wonder if I could find my way out

:wah: It must be like a maze in there:-1

Honestly, what would we find in there ???......'vedy interesteng'

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri May 21, 2010 5:24 pm

Kathy Ellen;1311658 wrote: Oh that is very scary Nomad....being in your mind...Wonder if I could find my way out

:wah: It must be like a maze in there:-1

Honestly, what would we find in there ???......'vedy interesteng'

Ive arrested you 6 times. Once you tried to break out of jail and I had to put you in solitary confinement for 30 days with only bread and water. You really learned your lesson that time.

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Fri May 21, 2010 6:14 pm

Nomad;1311660 wrote: Ive arrested you 6 times. Once you tried to break out of jail and I had to put you in solitary confinement for 30 days with only bread and water. You really learned your lesson that time.

WATER:-1??? .... no mojitas:(???

Bread......

???.... no toasted croissants with butter????

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri May 21, 2010 6:36 pm

Nomad;1311647 wrote: Ive arrested most of you in my mind many times.

I've placed you in handcuffs many times.

:yh_rotfl

Post by **spot** » Fri May 21, 2010 7:43 pm

bongbong;1311628 wrote: [QUOTE=spot;1311594]In England and Wales anybody at all, man woman or child, citizen or visitor on holiday from abroad, can lawfully arrest me so long as certain conditions are met. If they happen to be a constable the conditions are a lot less restrictive.

Would anyone like to know the conditions, or is that too boring?

no go on tell us

Here we go then. I'm more likely to be wrong than right, mind.

I must have committed or been about to commit an offence for which I might elect to be tried by a jury

AND you must reasonably think I'm about to hurt someone or damage property or steal something or run off before the police can take me into custody, there being no policeman on the scene to take charge in your place

AND if I'm not subsequently found guilty of the alleged offence then you've committed an unlawful arrest and I can legitimately sue you for compensation.

The condition for a constable is that there's no need for the guilty verdict, all he needs is "reasonable" grounds for suspicion that I've broken a law of some sort or might have been considering it, or even that I'd failed to identify myself honestly. You, unlike the constable, need to know the crime can be proven before you may act, and it has to be serious enough to go before a jury if I insist on my right to one.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri May 21, 2010 7:57 pm

LarsMac;1311494 wrote: Actually, technically in the US, anyone can make an arrest of anyone they suspect of illegal activity, and detain them for the proper authorities.

same here in Canada.

Post by **spot** » Fri May 21, 2010 8:08 pm

Odie;1311678 wrote: [QUOTE=LarsMac;1311494]Actually, technically in the US, anyone can make an arrest of anyone they suspect of illegal activity, and detain them for the proper authorities.

same here in Canada.

Not entirely. Canada still allows the Hue and Cry but apart from that it has to be for an indictable offense. In the USA it has to be for a felony unless State law authorizes citizen arrest for misdemeanors too.

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri May 21, 2010 9:10 pm

spot;1311681 wrote: ... In the USA it has to be for a felony unless State law authorizes citizen arrest for misdemeanors too.

In most states, such provisions are in place. I can't say for a certainty that all fifty plus the various territories all have such provisions, but a majority do.

It allows for such things as security guards detaining trespassers and for stores to detain shoplifters, and the like.

Post by **spot** » Sat May 22, 2010 5:31 am

LarsMac;1311682 wrote: It allows for such things as security guards detaining trespassers and for stores to detain shoplifters, and the like.

My apology, I thought both of those were generally covered by a "protect property" clause as they are in Canada, not a "misdemeanor" clause.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat May 22, 2010 7:37 am

spot;1311706 wrote: My apology, I thought both of those were generally covered by a "protect property" clause as they are in Canada, not a "misdemeanor" clause.

The wording is somewhat ambiguous on many states.

One requirement is that the offending party must have committed the offense in the presence of the citizen who is attempting the arrest.

Definition of "arrest" :

"The apprehending or detaining of a person in order to be forthcoming to answer an alleged or suspected crime.” - Black's Law Dictionary

The general guidelines:

1. if the arresting party has witnessed an illegal act he or she may detain the offender to turn said offender over to law enforcement personnel.

2. If the subject has committed a felony, or is suspected of committing a felony, not necessarily in the presence of the arresting party, a citizen may pursue and detain said offender.

By inference, then, if you actually witness a misdemeanor, you are legally within the law to detain the individual and hold them for, or present them to, law enforcement personnel. If you only suspect someone of said misdemeanor that you did not witness, you are subject to unlawful detention charges.

So unless you have enough knowledge of the law to tell the difference, you should probably let someone else do the arresting.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Sat May 22, 2010 8:42 am

spot;1311681 wrote: Not entirely. Canada still allows the Hue and Cry but apart from that it has to be for an indictable offense. In the USA it has to be for a felony unless State law authorizes citizen arrest for misdemeanors too.

Yes Spot, you can make a citizens arrest in Canada.

Canada:

-ARREST WITHOUT WARRANT BY ANY PERSON

Any one may arrest without warrant(s)

-a person who, on reasonable grounds, he believes

- (i) has committed a criminal offense, and

-(ii) is escaping from and freshly pursued by persons who have lawful authority to arrest that person

Post by **spot** » Sat May 22, 2010 8:52 am

You're perfectly right Odie. That's called the Hue and Cry. That's what the "and

is escaping from and freshly pursued by persons who have lawful authority to arrest that person" restriction means.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Sat May 22, 2010 7:26 pm

spot;1311732 wrote: You're perfectly right Odie. That's called the Hue and Cry. That's what the "and

is escaping from and freshly pursued by persons who have lawful authority to arrest that person" restriction means.

I'd like to arrest many here, but unfortunately revenge plays a huge part here.

Post by **spot** » Sun May 23, 2010 3:35 am

Odie;1311831 wrote: I'd like to arrest many here, but unfortunately revenge plays a huge part here.

Have you ever been in a position where you could have made a legal arrest? It must be decades since I was.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Sun May 23, 2010 5:42 am

spot;1311840 wrote: Have you ever been in a position where you could have made a legal arrest? It must be decades since I was.

yes......for road rage....not on me though.

2 teens on my road last year hitting each other with bats....but that would have only gotten me beaten.

Post by **spot** » Sun May 23, 2010 8:24 am

Senior Driving: Safety Tips, Warning Signs, and Knowing When to Stop might help.

If the lads were hitting each other with bats by prior agreement I'm not sure they were necessarily committing an offence at all.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Mon May 24, 2010 5:19 am

spot;1311677 wrote: AND if I'm not subsequently found guilty of the alleged offence then you've committed an unlawful arrest and I can legitimately sue you for compensation.

That last is dubious at best, fortunately for PCSOs and others.

Making a Citizen's Arrest etc. have useful information.

Post by **spot** » Mon May 24, 2010 6:01 am

Bill Sikes;1311995 wrote: That last is dubious at best, fortunately for PCSOs and others.

Making a Citizen's Arrest etc. have useful information.

I've no idea what the status of a PCSO is, in terms of whether he's an authorized constable for the duration of his shift. What I stated is a fair summary of current legislation though. It's the "without doubt" clauses in the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 and, failing proof of criminality, an arrester without constabulary powers is open to making restitution in some form, generally monetary.

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Mon May 24, 2010 6:10 am

spot;1311898 wrote: Senior Driving: Safety Tips, Warning Signs, and Knowing When to Stop might help.

If the lads were hitting each other with bats by prior agreement I'm not sure they were necessarily committing an offence at all.

Please explain what does the the link you provided have to do with Odie's post? :-3

Post by **spot** » Mon May 24, 2010 6:31 am

Jazzy;1312012 wrote: Please explain what does the the link you provided have to do with Odie's post? :-3

Odie was saying that she felt she could have legally enforced a citizen arrest on people displaying road rage. I find it hard to believe, myself - I certainly can't find even a single example of anyone successfully doing that in any newspaper but I'd happily read one if someone brings an example into the thread.

The link was to the relevant road rage section to show how a typical recipient of road rage reacts to the ill temper displayed: "Increased anxiety and anger in the car. Feeling more nervous or fearful while driving or feeling exhausted after driving. Frustration or anger at other drivers but oblivious to the frustration of other drivers, not understanding why they are honking".

I note that neither Odie or myself have implied that Odie has ever been on the receiving end of a road rage incident, merely that she's seen some and felt the need to respond. Taking down the number of the offender's vehicle and reporting the incident to the police might be a better course than trying to tackle someone already having a bad day.

Mustang · Post by **Mustang** » Mon May 24, 2010 7:44 am

spot;1312015 wrote: Odie was saying that she felt she could have legally enforced a citizen arrest on people displaying road rage. I find it hard to believe, myself - I certainly can't find even a single example of anyone successfully doing that in any newspaper but I'd happily read one if someone brings an example into the thread.

Well Spot, you're going to have to take my word on this because they do not publish the name(s) of the person that makes a citizens arrest here.

Two months ago, I had a car traveling on the wrong side of the road, coming towards me head on in his car. I couldn't go into the other lane to get out of his way, since there was a van following him and observing what was going on. I had to acually put my truck in reverse and back up to get away from him, to avoid a head on collision. At the last minute he swerved back into his line, then proceeded to pull off to the curb and stop, with his car still running.

I immediately called the police with information on what just transpired, requesting a patrol car on scene, while I detained him after removing the mans keys from his ignition. I signed the paperwork, appeared in court to testify and the man was found guilty of driving under the influence of alcohol, temporarily lost his drivers license and admitted into the ARD program.

If I would not have acted upon this situation, this person may have continued driving that day and caused a real accident and possibly killed someone.

Citizen's Arrest Law & Legal Definition

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon May 24, 2010 8:17 am

spot;1312015 wrote:

The link was to the relevant road rage section to show how a typical recipient of road rage reacts to the ill temper displayed: "Increased anxiety and anger in the car. Feeling more nervous or fearful while driving or feeling exhausted after driving. Frustration or anger at other drivers but oblivious to the frustration of other drivers, not understanding why they are honking".

Why was the link regarding seniors?

Post by **spot** » Mon May 24, 2010 8:27 am

Mustang;1312027 wrote: Well Spot, you're going to have to take my word on this because they do not publish the name(s) of the person that makes a citizens arrest here.

And the police and court formally recognized your action as a citizen arrest? I'm startled but, as you say, I'll have to take your word for it.

Post by **spot** » Mon May 24, 2010 8:32 am

Odie;1312032 wrote: Why was the link regarding seniors?

Why on earth shouldn't it be, Odie? Most road rage incidents involve drunks or people whose marbles have rusted with disuse and the passage of time. You seem remarkably prickly of late. You've seen several road rage incidents. You said so. We commented on typical road rage scenarios. Try taking the offending drivers' keys next time, like Mustang.

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Mon May 24, 2010 8:42 am

spot;1312035 wrote: Most road rage incidents involve drunks or people whose marbles have rusted with disuse and the passage of time.

Please post a link that will backup this statement. Thank you in advance and good luck.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon May 24, 2010 8:56 am

spot;1312035 wrote: Why on earth shouldn't it be, Odie? Most road rage incidents involve drunks or people whose marbles have rusted with disuse and the passage of time. You seem remarkably prickly of late. You've seen several road rage incidents. You said so. We commented on typical road rage scenarios. Try taking the offending drivers' keys next time, like Mustang.

You've never driven in Toronto, a city of 5.5 million population have you?

Road rage is not always involving drunks....far far from it.

Seniors are the least of drivers to cause road rage.

The ones who cause road rage have no patience in driving, high-strung, ones who run late for whatever, ones who assume they own the road, no patience, not caring about other drivers, ones on a rampage.....etc.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Mon May 24, 2010 9:31 am

spot;1312035 wrote: Most road rage incidents involve drunks or people whose marbles have rusted with disuse and the passage of time.

I should think it's quite the opposite.

Post by **spot** » Mon May 24, 2010 12:18 pm

Jazzy;1312038 wrote: [quote=spot]Most road rage incidents involve drunks or people whose marbles have rusted with disuse and the passage of time.Please post a link that will backup this statement. Thank you in advance and good luck.

Jazzy, we are evidently writing at cross purposes. That sentence was written to amuse myself, it was not an attempt at coherent statistical analysis. The sight of you and Odie barking in unison like mastiffs under a full moon is priceless.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Mon May 24, 2010 1:42 pm

Tell the suspect that they're under citizen's arrest. Tell them that they're not allowed to leave until a police officer comes and that they can explain the situation to the police when they arrive. Be firm and matter-of-fact.

In the U.S., A Miranda Warning is only required if you are both detaining AND questioning the suspect simultaneously. You do not need to read a suspect their rights if you question then detain.

If the suspect tries to leave, think very carefully before physically restraining the suspect. Not only will you put yourself in physical danger, but you could be subject to legal liabilities for use of excessive force. You can only use enough force to restrain the suspect. If they manage to run away, then the arrest has not been completed. Also, note that in at least some countries it is illegal to lock up the suspect or tie him to something.

Remember that you have no right to question or search the suspect, or to seize any kind of evidence.

I've always thought that a "citizen's arrest" is a kind of joke. First, who would actually hang around for the police if they were guilty? Secondly, You can't tie them up or lock them up, so what are you supposed to do? Sit on them?:yh_beatup

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Mon May 24, 2010 4:32 pm

spot;1312078 wrote: Jazzy, we are evidently writing at cross purposes. That sentence was written to amuse myself, it was not an attempt at coherent statistical analysis. The sight of you and Odie barking in unison like mastiffs under a full moon is priceless.

This is truly an awful thing for you to say to anyone Spot. You should really 'cop onto' yourself and apologize to Jazzy and Odie. You're being very rude here, and there's no reason for it.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon May 24, 2010 4:47 pm

Odie;1312041 wrote: You've never driven in Toronto, a city of 5.5 million population have you?

Road rage is not always involving drunks....far far from it.

Seniors are the least of drivers to cause road rage.

The ones who cause road rage have no patience in driving, high-strung, ones who run late for whatever, ones who assume they own the road, no patience, not caring about other drivers, ones on a rampage.....etc.

Actually, from my experiences, I would suggest that often the one who actually CAUSED the road rage might have never been aware of the anger they created, as the drove blissfully off into the sunset.

A particular instance comes to mind.

I was driving merrily on my way, when some dunderhead backed out of a parking spot causing the fellow two cars ahead to lock his brakes. The car behind him did likewise, and I, of course was forced to stop, as well.

The guy behind me did not see the cause of the stop, and swerved into the other lane to avoid hitting me, and stopped alongside me.

He looked over at me, growling and glaring. I pointed towards the aforementioned dunderhead, now driving blissfully away.

The fellow jumped out of his car and came over to me, yelling and screaming, and pounding on the roof of my car. I of course, felling a bit put out, and full of adrenaline, threw open my door, knocking him to the ground, and stepped out to try to explain what had happened.

He jumped up and threw a punch at me, so I grabbed his arm and twisted him around and face down on the hood of my car.

About this time some by-standers broke up the tussle, and he jumped into his car and sped off, thinking what an a**hole I was.

I calmed down and a got in my car and drove home, thinking similar thoughts about him, until I remembered the guy who started the whole thing, who never had a clue what he caused.

It was a good thing neither of us had a baseball bat, I reckon.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon May 24, 2010 5:40 pm

LarsMac;1312128 wrote: Actually, from my experiences, I would suggest that often the one who actually CAUSED the road rage might have never been aware of the anger they created, as the drove blissfully off into the sunset.

A particular instance comes to mind.

I was driving merrily on my way, when some dunderhead backed out of a parking spot causing the fellow two cars ahead to lock his brakes. The car behind him did likewise, and I, of course was forced to stop, as well.

The guy behind me did not see the cause of the stop, and swerved into the other lane to avoid hitting me, and stopped alongside me.

He looked over at me, growling and glaring. I pointed towards the aforementioned dunderhead, now driving blissfully away.

The fellow jumped out of his car and came over to me, yelling and screaming, and pounding on the roof of my car. I of course, felling a bit put out, and full of adrenaline, threw open my door, knocking him to the ground, and stepped out to try to explain what had happened.

He jumped up and threw a punch at me, so I grabbed his arm and twisted him around and face down on the hood of my car.

About this time some by-standers broke up the tussle, and he jumped into his car and sped off, thinking what an a**hole I was.

I calmed down and a got in my car and drove home, thinking similar thoughts about him, until I remembered the guy who started the whole thing, who never had a clue what he caused.

It was a good thing neither of us had a baseball bat, I reckon.

Some road rage indeed happens like you just explained.......and sheer adrenaline kicks in.

Thank god you were alright after all of that, pity no one got his plate number!

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Mon May 24, 2010 5:46 pm

LarsMac;1312128 wrote: Actually, from my experiences, I would suggest that often the one who actually CAUSED the road rage might have never been aware of the anger they created, as the drove blissfully off into the sunset.

A particular instance comes to mind.

I was driving merrily on my way, when some dunderhead backed out of a parking spot causing the fellow two cars ahead to lock his brakes. The car behind him did likewise, and I, of course was forced to stop, as well.

The guy behind me did not see the cause of the stop, and swerved into the other lane to avoid hitting me, and stopped alongside me.

He looked over at me, growling and glaring. I pointed towards the aforementioned dunderhead, now driving blissfully away.

The fellow jumped out of his car and came over to me, yelling and screaming, and pounding on the roof of my car. I of course, felling a bit put out, and full of adrenaline, threw open my door, knocking him to the ground, and stepped out to try to explain what had happened.

He jumped up and threw a punch at me, so I grabbed his arm and twisted him around and face down on the hood of my car.

About this time some by-standers broke up the tussle, and he jumped into his car and sped off, thinking what an a**hole I was.

I calmed down and a got in my car and drove home, thinking similar thoughts about him, until I remembered the guy who started the whole thing, who never had a clue what he caused.

It was a good thing neither of us had a baseball bat, I reckon.

I hear what you're saying Lars, and I'm so happy that you were not hurt. I understand why you were so upset with the ' Flippin Arsehole.'

I'd like to post a link to my thread about my road rage experience, if you don't mind.

I fear 'road rage' now......The driver meant to kill me, and they almost did:-2

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/gener ... -rage.html

Post by **spot** » Mon May 24, 2010 5:59 pm

Kathy Ellen;1312123 wrote: This is truly an awful thing for you to say to anyone Spot. You should really 'cop onto' yourself and apologize to Jazzy and Odie. You're being very rude here, and there's no reason for it.
No? Is there not?

I'm tired of watching people orchestrate gang-bangs, that's all. It's not my idea of conversation and by God I've seen enough of it on ForumGarden in my time.

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Mon May 24, 2010 6:28 pm

spot;1312138 wrote: No? Is there not?

I'm tired of watching people orchestrate gang-bangs, that's all. It's not my idea of conversation and by God I've seen enough of it on ForumGarden in my time.

This is not 'orchestrating gang bangs' Spot....It's 2 members expressing their opinions and me chiming in..... I think that you need to allow members to express their opinions.

Conversation means discussion...not posting links to prove every feeling that you have.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon May 24, 2010 7:20 pm

Forum Rage?

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon May 24, 2010 7:25 pm

Kathy Ellen;1312137 wrote: I hear what you're saying Lars, and I'm so happy that you were not hurt. I understand why you were so upset with the ' Flippin Arsehole.'

I'd like to post a link to my thread about my road rage experience, if you don't mind.

I fear 'road rage' now......The driver meant to kill me, and they almost did:-2

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/gener ... -rage.html

Oh, yeah!!

I can relate to that.

I had a similar experience.

Thought I was gonna die that day.

When I told my wife about THAT one, all she had to say was,

"I TOLD you that finger was going to get you in trouble one day."

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Mon May 24, 2010 7:49 pm

Daisy Fuentes can arrest me ANYTIME!!!!!!!!!!

:yh_drool

Post by **spot** » Tue May 25, 2010 1:08 am

Kathy Ellen;1312142 wrote: This is not 'orchestrating gang bangs' Spot....It's 2 members expressing their opinions

I scarcely know why you bother saying that, to be honest. The thread's here, people can read. Either they see two people misguidedly thinking they scent blood and stretching their claws in unison or they don't. I needn't assert it, you needn't deny it, all anyone needs do is look.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Tue May 25, 2010 3:57 am

spot;1312167 wrote: they scent blood and stretching their claws in unison or they don't

Having been raised by a pack of wolves I myself possess a keen sense of smell, especially for blood.

Just wanted to get that out there.

I think people want to know these kinds of things.

Tonight at dinner you can tell people you know a guy who was raised by wolves. How cool is that?

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Tue May 25, 2010 6:06 am

spot;1312078 wrote: Jazzy, The sight of you and Odie barking in unison like mastiffs under a full moon is priceless.

Who can arrest me?

The dog warden. Why? I'm not up-to-date on my rabbies & dhpp shot. My license has expired and if I'm caught, I'm going straight to the pound :wah: I hope Odie shares her Milk Bones with me as that would be....priceless :yh_rotfl

preearth · Post by **preearth** » Thu May 27, 2010 7:50 pm

LarsMac;1311494 wrote: Actually, technically in the US, anyone can make an arrest of anyone they suspect of illegal activity, and detain them for the proper authorities.

Does this include the arrest of police suspected of illegal activity?

preearth · Post by **preearth** » Thu May 27, 2010 7:53 pm

Kathy Ellen;1312142 wrote: Nice photo,...

Nice photo you have in your signiture line.

What coastline is that?

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu May 27, 2010 9:52 pm

preearth;1312561 wrote: Does this include the arrest of police suspected of illegal activity?

In theory, it does, but good luck pulling it off.

A friend and I tried that once, and ended up bleeding all over the floor of the Shreveport jail.

The lawyer expressed several times how lucky we were that we were not shot and dumped in the Red River.

Probably had to do with all the by-standers.

He got us off with a misdemeanor 'interfering' with law enforcement personnel.