There must be a considerable amount of resentment on the part of many Mexicans over the U.S. owning lands that were once their domain and how those lands were acquired.
In his famous Memoirs written while he was terminally ill with Throat Cancer---former U.S. President and Civil War General expresses his view on the Mexican War in which he fought as a young officer.
From Grant's Memoirs
"Generally, the officers of the army were indifferent whether the annexation was consummated or not; but not so all of them. For myself, I was bitterly opposed to the measure, and to this day regard the war, which resulted, as one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation. It was an instance of a republic following the bad example of European monarchies, in not considering justice in their desire to acquire additional territory."
Mexican Resentment?
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chonsigirl
- Posts: 33633
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:28 am
Mexican Resentment?
Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo ceded the western lands to the United States after the Mexican-American War.
But, these lands first belonged to the Native Americans before the Spanish, then Mexico, then the United States laid claim to them.
But, these lands first belonged to the Native Americans before the Spanish, then Mexico, then the United States laid claim to them.
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Mexican Resentment?
Lon;1319415 wrote: There must be a considerable amount of resentment on the part of many Mexicans over the U.S. owning lands that were once their domain and how those lands were acquired.
In his famous Memoirs written while he was terminally ill with Throat Cancer---former U.S. President and Civil War General expresses his view on the Mexican War in which he fought as a young officer.
From Grant's Memoirs
"Generally, the officers of the army were indifferent whether the annexation was consummated or not; but not so all of them. For myself, I was bitterly opposed to the measure, and to this day regard the war, which resulted, as one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation. It was an instance of a republic following the bad example of European monarchies, in not considering justice in their desire to acquire additional territory."
Ah yes, the downtrodden du jour. What about the nations that were run completely off their land in every other part of the US? What about the entire cultures that were hunted down and slaughtered to the last child during the California gold rush? People without a dog in the hunt cry about this unjust war. I don't see anybody .... anybody at all ... willing to research who the land they themselves own was stolen from so they can give it back to the "rightful owners".
In his famous Memoirs written while he was terminally ill with Throat Cancer---former U.S. President and Civil War General expresses his view on the Mexican War in which he fought as a young officer.
From Grant's Memoirs
"Generally, the officers of the army were indifferent whether the annexation was consummated or not; but not so all of them. For myself, I was bitterly opposed to the measure, and to this day regard the war, which resulted, as one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation. It was an instance of a republic following the bad example of European monarchies, in not considering justice in their desire to acquire additional territory."
Ah yes, the downtrodden du jour. What about the nations that were run completely off their land in every other part of the US? What about the entire cultures that were hunted down and slaughtered to the last child during the California gold rush? People without a dog in the hunt cry about this unjust war. I don't see anybody .... anybody at all ... willing to research who the land they themselves own was stolen from so they can give it back to the "rightful owners".
Mexican Resentment?
chonsigirl;1319416 wrote: Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo ceded the western lands to the United States after the Mexican-American War.
But, these lands first belonged to the Native Americans before the Spanish, then Mexico, then the United States laid claim to them.
It's that treaty that is still being debated to this day.
Native Americans though occupying much of these disputed lands had no government or infrastructure which left them wide open to being absorbed.
But, these lands first belonged to the Native Americans before the Spanish, then Mexico, then the United States laid claim to them.
It's that treaty that is still being debated to this day.
Native Americans though occupying much of these disputed lands had no government or infrastructure which left them wide open to being absorbed.
Mexican Resentment?
Accountable;1319418 wrote: Ah yes, the downtrodden du jour. What about the nations that were run completely off their land in every other part of the US? What about the entire cultures that were hunted down and slaughtered to the last child during the California gold rush? People without a dog in the hunt cry about this unjust war. I don't see anybody .... anybody at all ... willing to research who the land they themselves own was stolen from so they can give it back to the "rightful owners".
One could say that the "rightful owners" of land are those that are willing and able to keep it in their control.
One could say that the "rightful owners" of land are those that are willing and able to keep it in their control.
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chonsigirl
- Posts: 33633
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:28 am
Mexican Resentment?
Actually, that is not true at all, Lon.
For the offical map that shows what the US government decided was native land, and settled during the claims process in the 1950s, here is the link. You will see the majority of the West is included.
http://www.nps.gov/history/nagpra/docum ... imsMAP.htm
For the offical map that shows what the US government decided was native land, and settled during the claims process in the 1950s, here is the link. You will see the majority of the West is included.
http://www.nps.gov/history/nagpra/docum ... imsMAP.htm
Mexican Resentment?
chonsigirl;1319422 wrote: Actually, that is not true at all, Lon.
For the offical map that shows what the US government decided was native land, and settled during the claims process in the 1950s, here is the link. You will see the majority of the West is included.
http://www.nps.gov/history/nagpra/docum ... imsMAP.htm
What is not true? The treaty?------------Many Mexicans dispute it----not true?
For the offical map that shows what the US government decided was native land, and settled during the claims process in the 1950s, here is the link. You will see the majority of the West is included.
http://www.nps.gov/history/nagpra/docum ... imsMAP.htm
What is not true? The treaty?------------Many Mexicans dispute it----not true?
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chonsigirl
- Posts: 33633
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:28 am
Mexican Resentment?
Accountable;1319418 wrote: I don't see anybody .... anybody at all ... willing to research who the land they themselves own was stolen from so they can give it back to the "rightful owners".
Uh, AC, it's what I do all the time, and countless other scholars. Maybe because we are not main stream historians, the work is continued all the time.
I have specific volume names if you want information for the gold rush period in California, I would recommend this one-just taken from the newspaper accounts themselves. If you want a copy, let me know. I will pick you up one when I speak at a conference in October.
http://www.questia.com/library/book/ext ... rafzer.jsp
Uh, AC, it's what I do all the time, and countless other scholars. Maybe because we are not main stream historians, the work is continued all the time.
I have specific volume names if you want information for the gold rush period in California, I would recommend this one-just taken from the newspaper accounts themselves. If you want a copy, let me know. I will pick you up one when I speak at a conference in October.
http://www.questia.com/library/book/ext ... rafzer.jsp
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Mexican Resentment?
chonsigirl;1319424 wrote: Uh, AC, it's what I do all the time, and countless other scholars. Maybe because we are not main stream historians, the work is continued all the time.
I have specific volume names if you want information for the gold rush period in California, I would recommend this one-just taken from the newspaper accounts themselves. If you want a copy, let me know. I will pick you up one when I speak at a conference in October.
http://www.questia.com/library/book/ext ... rafzer.jsp
I said "the land they themselves own." You're researching about land but not land titled in your name. That's what I meant.
I have specific volume names if you want information for the gold rush period in California, I would recommend this one-just taken from the newspaper accounts themselves. If you want a copy, let me know. I will pick you up one when I speak at a conference in October.
http://www.questia.com/library/book/ext ... rafzer.jsp
I said "the land they themselves own." You're researching about land but not land titled in your name. That's what I meant.
Mexican Resentment?
chonsigirl;1319422 wrote: Actually, that is not true at all, Lon.
For the offical map that shows what the US government decided was native land, and settled during the claims process in the 1950s, here is the link. You will see the majority of the West is included.
http://www.nps.gov/history/nagpra/docum ... imsMAP.htm
Interesting map. I see where my ancestors were in Georgia when they were driven out on the Trail of Tears and ended up in northeastern Oklahoma. I remember my mother telling me that my grandmother, my father's mother, was entitled to a land grant in Oklahoma, but she had no way to go there to "prove up" on it. Two weeks ago I stayed at Grand Lake O the Cherokees in that area and tried to open myself up for any spirits who might want to contact me but none were forthcoming. But the peace I felt in that beautiful country was wonderful.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Lake ... _Cherokees
For the offical map that shows what the US government decided was native land, and settled during the claims process in the 1950s, here is the link. You will see the majority of the West is included.
http://www.nps.gov/history/nagpra/docum ... imsMAP.htm
Interesting map. I see where my ancestors were in Georgia when they were driven out on the Trail of Tears and ended up in northeastern Oklahoma. I remember my mother telling me that my grandmother, my father's mother, was entitled to a land grant in Oklahoma, but she had no way to go there to "prove up" on it. Two weeks ago I stayed at Grand Lake O the Cherokees in that area and tried to open myself up for any spirits who might want to contact me but none were forthcoming. But the peace I felt in that beautiful country was wonderful.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Lake ... _Cherokees
Mexican Resentment?
Blah blah blah....the poor people of the PAST.
By that logic, the Normans owe the Saxons, the Mongol Horde owe the Chinese, the Romans owe the Egyptians, and the blasted Cro-Magnons owe the Neanderthals!!
Look, it's the past. It's over. Cut down a tree, build a bridge and GET OVER IT! it's what happening today that is important and can be changed. Want to respect the lessons of the past? Then don't make the same mistakes again, in the meantime, don't cry over spilt milk.
The Eagles "Get Over it"
I turn on the tube and what do I see
A whole lotta people cryin’ ’don’t blame me’
They point their crooked little fingers at everybody else
Spendin' all their time feelin’ sorry for themselves
Victim of this, victim of that
Your momma’s too thin; your daddy’s too fat
Get over it
Get over it
All this whinin’ and cryin’ and pitchin’ a fit
Get over it, get over it
You say you haven’t been the same since you had your little crash
But you might feel better if they gave you some cash
The more I think about it, old Billy was right
Let’s kill all the lawyers, kill ’em tonight
You don’t want to work, you want to live like a king
But the big, bad world doesn’t owe you a thing
Get over it
Get over it
If you don’t want to play, then you might as well split
Get over it, get over it
It’s like going to confession every time I hear you speak
You’re makin’ the most of your losin’ streak
Some call it sick, but I call it weak
You drag it around like a ball and chain
You wallow in the guilt, you wallow in the pain
You wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown
Got your mind in the gutter, bringin’ everybody down
Complain about the present and blame it on the past
I’d like to find your inner child and kick it’s little ass
Get over it
Get over it
All this bitchin’ and moanin’ and pitchin’ a fit
Get over it, get over it
Get over it
Get over it
It’s gotta stop sometime, so why don’t you quit
Get over it, get over it
By that logic, the Normans owe the Saxons, the Mongol Horde owe the Chinese, the Romans owe the Egyptians, and the blasted Cro-Magnons owe the Neanderthals!!
Look, it's the past. It's over. Cut down a tree, build a bridge and GET OVER IT! it's what happening today that is important and can be changed. Want to respect the lessons of the past? Then don't make the same mistakes again, in the meantime, don't cry over spilt milk.
The Eagles "Get Over it"
I turn on the tube and what do I see
A whole lotta people cryin’ ’don’t blame me’
They point their crooked little fingers at everybody else
Spendin' all their time feelin’ sorry for themselves
Victim of this, victim of that
Your momma’s too thin; your daddy’s too fat
Get over it
Get over it
All this whinin’ and cryin’ and pitchin’ a fit
Get over it, get over it
You say you haven’t been the same since you had your little crash
But you might feel better if they gave you some cash
The more I think about it, old Billy was right
Let’s kill all the lawyers, kill ’em tonight
You don’t want to work, you want to live like a king
But the big, bad world doesn’t owe you a thing
Get over it
Get over it
If you don’t want to play, then you might as well split
Get over it, get over it
It’s like going to confession every time I hear you speak
You’re makin’ the most of your losin’ streak
Some call it sick, but I call it weak
You drag it around like a ball and chain
You wallow in the guilt, you wallow in the pain
You wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown
Got your mind in the gutter, bringin’ everybody down
Complain about the present and blame it on the past
I’d like to find your inner child and kick it’s little ass
Get over it
Get over it
All this bitchin’ and moanin’ and pitchin’ a fit
Get over it, get over it
Get over it
Get over it
It’s gotta stop sometime, so why don’t you quit
Get over it, get over it
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Mexican Resentment?
Zapata;1319435 wrote: Interesting map. I see where my ancestors were in Georgia when they were driven out on the Trail of Tears and ended up in northeastern Oklahoma. I remember my mother telling me that my grandmother, my father's mother, was entitled to a land grant in Oklahoma, but she had no way to go there to "prove up" on it. Two weeks ago I stayed at Grand Lake O the Cherokees in that area and tried to open myself up for any spirits who might want to contact me but none were forthcoming. But the peace I felt in that beautiful country was wonderful.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Lake ... _Cherokees
I lived for a year in Muskogee when I was a teenager. We'd go to Ft Gibson Lake to do some cliff diving. That's just a bit south of Grand Lake. Beautiful country there in the summer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Lake ... _Cherokees
I lived for a year in Muskogee when I was a teenager. We'd go to Ft Gibson Lake to do some cliff diving. That's just a bit south of Grand Lake. Beautiful country there in the summer.
Mexican Resentment?
Accountable;1319455 wrote: I lived for a year in Muskogee when I was a teenager. We'd go to Ft Gibson Lake to do some cliff diving. That's just a bit south of Grand Lake. Beautiful country there in the summer.
It is gorgeous! I was delighted to find that my timeshare (Worldmark/Wyndham) had a resort there, right on the golf course and only about 20 miles out of the way on the route we were traveling from Louisiana to Kansas. And for a condo, fully equipped, it was half what a mediocre room would have cost in some motel. I will definitely go back. Next time to fish, maybe.
It is gorgeous! I was delighted to find that my timeshare (Worldmark/Wyndham) had a resort there, right on the golf course and only about 20 miles out of the way on the route we were traveling from Louisiana to Kansas. And for a condo, fully equipped, it was half what a mediocre room would have cost in some motel. I will definitely go back. Next time to fish, maybe.
Mexican Resentment?
Lon;1319419 wrote: It's that treaty that is still being debated to this day.
Native Americans though occupying much of these disputed lands had no government or infrastructure which left them wide open to being absorbed.
Native Americans believed that no one 'owned' the land that it was for everyone to use.
Native Americans though occupying much of these disputed lands had no government or infrastructure which left them wide open to being absorbed.
Native Americans believed that no one 'owned' the land that it was for everyone to use.
Mexican Resentment?
I like Mexican restaurants. Some are better than others naturally. Last one I visited was Don Pablos and it kinda sucked. I recall the food being uneventful.
I AM AWESOME MAN
Mexican Resentment?
Nomad;1319470 wrote: I like Mexican restaurants. Some are better than others naturally. Last one I visited was Don Pablos and it kinda sucked. I recall the food being uneventful.
We have a very interesting Mexican Restaurant called "Francisco Fong's" The owner is half Chinese and half Mexican and the food has a blend of both cultures. The Egg Rolls with guacamole and salsa are one of my favorites and the Guadalupe Pressed Duck is a real treat.
We have a very interesting Mexican Restaurant called "Francisco Fong's" The owner is half Chinese and half Mexican and the food has a blend of both cultures. The Egg Rolls with guacamole and salsa are one of my favorites and the Guadalupe Pressed Duck is a real treat.
Mexican Resentment?
Lon;1319472 wrote: We have a very interesting Mexican Restaurant called "Francisco Fong's" The owner is half Chinese and half Mexican and the food has a blend of both cultures. The Egg Rolls with guacamole and salsa are one of my favorites and the Guadalupe Pressed Duck is a real treat.
Then why the resentment?
Then why the resentment?
I AM AWESOME MAN
Mexican Resentment?
Nomad;1319475 wrote: Then why the resentment?
No resentment over food, but many Mexicans feel that the U.S. southwest states and California are rightfully theirs and that the Treaty of Hildago was a farce.
No resentment over food, but many Mexicans feel that the U.S. southwest states and California are rightfully theirs and that the Treaty of Hildago was a farce.
Mexican Resentment?
Lon;1319472 wrote: We have a very interesting Mexican Restaurant called "Francisco Fong's" The owner is half Chinese and half Mexican and the food has a blend of both cultures. The Egg Rolls with guacamole and salsa are one of my favorites and the Guadalupe Pressed Duck is a real treat.
oooohhhh, that sounds marvelous! We have some excellent Mexican restaurants here on the US side while right across the border they have some superb Chinese restaurants. They have a large Chinese community there in Mexicali. I just made some killer salsa! Tried a new recipe and threw in some fresh basil & cucumber, along with the garlic, onions, lemon & lime juice, habanero & jalapeno and lots of cilantro.
Oops! Didn't mean to derail your thread.
oooohhhh, that sounds marvelous! We have some excellent Mexican restaurants here on the US side while right across the border they have some superb Chinese restaurants. They have a large Chinese community there in Mexicali. I just made some killer salsa! Tried a new recipe and threw in some fresh basil & cucumber, along with the garlic, onions, lemon & lime juice, habanero & jalapeno and lots of cilantro.
Oops! Didn't mean to derail your thread.
Mexican Resentment?
Lon;1319477 wrote: No resentment over food, but many Mexicans feel that the U.S. southwest states and California are rightfully theirs and that the Treaty of Hildago was a farce.
Now that you mention it many Native Americans arent real thrilled with us either. Then theres that whole dragging Africans over here and putting them to work in cotton fields. Seems my lack of social skills pale in comparison.
Now that you mention it many Native Americans arent real thrilled with us either. Then theres that whole dragging Africans over here and putting them to work in cotton fields. Seems my lack of social skills pale in comparison.
I AM AWESOME MAN
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Mexican Resentment?
They say some of our Mexican food is really TexMex. They probably go on to explain the difference but I'm busy eating.
Mexican Resentment?
What you can take you can keep, what you can keep is yours. Has there ever been a time in history when that wasn't the case? Nothing has actually changed except the method and the way we are persuaded to accept the status quo.
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Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Mexican Resentment?
The more I find out about Grant (and it is still very little) the more remarkable he becomes. Takes a man of some vision to have that kind of perspective.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."