Why does there seem to be a sizeable dissident minority in the USA?

medicinehat1 · Post by **medicinehat1** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:27 pm

By "dissident minority" I mean against more or less anything the government does, sees the government as "evil" and wants to do its own thing as much as possible if not always.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:56 pm

medicinehat1;1320594 wrote: By "dissident minority" I mean against more or less anything the government does, sees the government as "evil" and wants to do its own thing as much as possible if not always.

Well, why do so many feel that government always has the best interests of it's citizenry in mind when legislating? While government may not necessarily be evil, they are powerful, self serving and controlling.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:54 pm

Lately, like the last few decades, the US seems to be fairly split down the middle, so the small margin of victory for one side or the other means the other nearly half the population is the dissident "minority" when a few of the centrists get pushed too far on one issue or the other, and shift their votes in the next election, the former majority suddenly finds themselves in the minority, and of course, in disagreement with the new majority.

And you know us Americans. We're nothing, if not noisy when we aren't getting our way.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:36 am

An interesting question! Are you talking about eg White Supremacist groups, the hard religious right, or ordinary people losing faith in the Constitution?

trooper · Post by **trooper** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:38 pm

medicinehat1;1320594 wrote: By "dissident minority" I mean against more or less anything the government does, sees the government as "evil" and wants to do its own thing as much as possible if not always.

Could it be that your president wears a baseball hat back to front ?

I await the newsfilm of him skate-boarding down Pennsylvania Avenue rapping. in between bites of some sort of grease burger....with onions and mustard, please.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:43 pm

medicinehat1;1320594 wrote: By "dissident minority" I mean against more or less anything the government does, sees the government as "evil" and wants to do its own thing as much as possible if not always.

Because our country is supposed to be 'of the people' and not 'of the government'?

medicinehat1 · Post by **medicinehat1** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:43 pm

Clodhopper;1320679 wrote: An interesting question! Are you talking about eg White Supremacist groups, the hard religious right, or ordinary people losing faith in the Constitution?

I think it's just that it's the opinion that you get when you sometimes see the news. It seems that Americans generally have a very independently minded streak to them in comparison to Europeans where what a government does is less of an issue. In Europe there's generally not the same "make government as small as possible and intervene in the lives of people as little as possible" desire.

Seen from a European perspective it wasn't especially easy to understand, for one thing, the fury that seemed to have been provoked in some sectors of US society by the changes to the US healthcare system by President Obama. Then there's for example gun control and how any attempt at gun control in America results in something quite watered down which doesn't really serve much benefit. I don't think there's any European country where guns are as enshrined in the local culture as in America. There do, generally, seem to be a lot more fringe groups in America too.

Maybe not the best of answers as it's late here and my brain is as a result not really in gear but just some of my thoughts

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:23 pm

I'm British, and also about to go to bed. But I won't be around for a week or so and just wanted to acknowledge your reply. I wonder if what you are seeing is a result of the huge size of the USA, and its much larger population - eg, there are more of them, so you get more fringe groups...?

Post by **spot** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:49 am

Clodhopper;1320988 wrote: I'm British, and also about to go to bed. But I won't be around for a week or so and just wanted to acknowledge your reply. I wonder if what you are seeing is a result of the huge size of the USA, and its much larger population - eg, there are more of them, so you get more fringe groups...?

India, to take an example, is a lot larger and more diverse in its society and yet it has far less factional friction. I see little indication in the US of a willingness to negotiate toward common ground, there's no desire to find a negotiated consensus, it's invariably us and them.

There's also the matter of the overwhelming power of law enforcement. Poor Lindsey Lohan, for example, is being crushed mercilessly year after year having started down a track of non-compliance. There's no proportionality between behavior and the state's reaction.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:27 am

spot;1321031 wrote:

There's also the matter of the overwhelming power of law enforcement. Poor Lindsey Lohan, for example, is being crushed mercilessly year after year having started down a track of non-compliance. There's no proportionality between behavior and the state's reaction.

Was that a sacrcastic response, spot. (just a true question, somtimes my denseness cannot perceive it. (said with respect, it must be my summer attitude.)

I believe "poor Lindsey" got what she deserved-violation of probation, non-compliance to judicial directives, and a serious danger on the roads if she is drinking and under the influence of certain substances. Serious waste of news time spent on her case.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:13 am

medicinehat1;1320976 wrote: I think it's just that it's the opinion that you get when you sometimes see the news. It seems that Americans generally have a very independently minded streak to them in comparison to Europeans where what a government does is less of an issue. In Europe there's generally not the same "make government as small as possible and intervene in the lives of people as little as possible" desire.

Seen from a European perspective it wasn't especially easy to understand, for one thing, the fury that seemed to have been provoked in some sectors of US society by the changes to the US healthcare system by President Obama. Then there's for example gun control and how any attempt at gun control in America results in something quite watered down which doesn't really serve much benefit. I don't think there's any European country where guns are as enshrined in the local culture as in America. There do, generally, seem to be a lot more fringe groups in America too.

Fringe?!? Hell, we're completely unraveled! :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl Sorry, couldn't resist.

To really understand where this is coming from you have to understand the principles and ideals the country were founded on and that we put them in writing. We've been discussing that here for years and some still are clueless.

More and more Americans are coming to the realization that we have gone from simply drifting from our original mooring (those principles and ideals) to having factions actively trying to cut us away permanently. Some believe these factions have been at work since post-WWI, making incremental progress toward their goal, and now see their chance to finish the job with one great heave. Naturally there will be more dissent and conflict at such a time.

Post by **spot** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:44 am

chonsigirl;1321036 wrote: Was that a sacrcastic response, spot. (just a true question, somtimes my denseness cannot perceive it. (said with respect, it must be my summer attitude.)

I believe "poor Lindsey" got what she deserved-violation of probation, non-compliance to judicial directives, and a serious danger on the roads if she is drinking and under the influence of certain substances. Serious waste of news time spent on her case.

It was a serious comment. There's a difference between a legal penalty and perpetual indefinite persecution. Snap, done, you've been penalized, get on with your life, that's one thing. A continuous parade of we're more powerful than you is just gloating. The legal system shouldn't gloat.

Fyrenza · Post by **Fyrenza** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:31 am

I believe that quite a few folks have come to the realization that our government is completely OWNED by the financiers, just like our LameStreamMedia, and all of our money.

There have been so many exposes on youtube, as well as in articles and books, regarding the New World Order conspiracy,

that cite historic FACTS which can only lead to one conclusion, if thought about critically.

bMany people are waking up to the fact that there IS, indeed, Something Afoot, and we're beginning to get a glimpse of just where this train is heading ~ NoWhere NEAR where any of us would like to be,

and we're beginning to feel that if we don't do something NOW,

it's going to be too late.

Sad, but true.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:07 am

spot;1321058 wrote: It was a serious comment. There's a difference between a legal penalty and perpetual indefinite persecution. Snap, done, you've been penalized, get on with your life, that's one thing. A continuous parade of we're more powerful than you is just gloating. The legal system shouldn't gloat.

Ah, thank you for the explanation. Yes, the judge should have just handed down the sentence, I did read comments about some grandstanding on her part.