Halloween?

[JestersJinx]

What's everyone planning this year?

With friends, family, kids, haunted houses, costumes, etc.

A friend and I wanted to make a gypsy caravan down in a city for fun, handing out candy and stuff of course, but we're too lazy for that.

I'm most likely going to a big city celebration-thing dressed as a musketeer girl.

[beowulf]

gonna lock the door and switch the lights out.............any kid that does knock on the door will be told where they can go

i really dislike the importation of this Americanism into the UK..........it can be very intimdating to some, especially the elderly

and dont you think it sends mixed messages to kids.............all year they are told not to talk to strangers or accept gifts from them and then they are paraded around and told to go up to doors of strangers and ask!!

[kazalala]

ahhh.. i think its ok if they have their parents with them ,,, only thing is here now ,, they seem to expect money,, which i dont give ,, even to carol singers at christmas:sneaky: i have a bowl of sweeties ready to give out,, although i hardly get any knocking here make sure to buy the sweets i like:sneaky::wah:

[Peg]

I have no clue what I am dressing as for the Halloween parties but I did buy my dog an angel outfit.

[spot]

It's a disgusting practice all round, the further I can keep it from my door the better. It involves a total abandonment of reality and a great deal of lying to children.

[along-for-the-ride]

Let us continue this discussion a month from now.







Okay.................let's have a sneak peek into the festivities to come.

Attached files

[kazalala]

spot;1334740 wrote: It's a disgusting practice all round, the further I can keep it from my door the better. It involves a total abandonment of reality and a great deal of lying to children.
:-3 a bit harsh? what about christmas? we lie to children then also,, out of interest did you not?

[spot]

kazalala;1334759 wrote: :-3 a bit harsh? what about christmas? we lie to children then also,, out of interest did you not?
You're kidding - of course I didn't. What sort of message is involved in spinning out a lie that's bound to be discovered? And at an age when you'd least want children to find that they can't rely on adults to have a track record for honesty?

[kazalala]

spot;1334770 wrote: You're kidding - of course I didn't. What sort of message is involved in spinning out a lie that's bound to be discovered? And at an age when you'd least want children to find that they can't rely on adults to have a track record for honesty?
ok , thanks for your honesty;):D

[Peg]

spot;1334740 wrote: It's a disgusting practice all round, the further I can keep it from my door the better. It involves a total abandonment of reality and a great deal of lying to children.


Is it just me or is anyone else wondering what you have to lie to children about when it comes to Halloween?

[spot]

Peg;1334838 wrote: Is it just me or is anyone else wondering what you have to lie to children about when it comes to Halloween?


Regarding the nature of demons, imps, witches and suchlike bugabooitry? Children are impressionable, I'm cautious about what I impress on them.

[Odie]

spot;1334740 wrote: It's a disgusting practice all round, the further I can keep it from my door the better. It involves a total abandonment of reality and a great deal of lying to children.


Halloween is one of the best times of the year for young and old.:guitarist



Reality? .....what about bedtime stories, fairies, Santa, The Easter Bunny, the tooth fairy, Bambi, etc.



what about Christmas & Easter, is that not lying to your kids?

[spot]

Odie;1334844 wrote: Reality? .....what about bedtime stories, fairies, Santa, The Easter Bunny, the tooth fairy, Bambi, etc.Anyone inflicting that sort of bull on children deserves all they get when the resulting adults-are-liars hit their teenage years.

what about Christmas & Easter, is that not lying to your kids?That, surely, depends on the extent to which Christianity is a part of their upbringing. If they attend church on a regular basis then it's a truthful part of their world, if they don't then Christmas is a present-giving holiday when they get to see distant relatives and Easter passes without notice.

Halloween, regardless of anyone's religious affiliation, is a wicked pernicious and damaging lie from start to finish.

[Betty Boop]

I have to admit I really dislike Halloween, it frightens the hell out of my son. Even schools tell spooky stories in the run up to it. When you have a child that views the world literally and doesn't grasp the fact that those stories are actually make believe it's no fun at all. I have had to put notes on the front door asking people not to knock over the last three years. I generally spend two weeks either side of Halloween with a spooked child who won't go up to bed alone and becomes freaked out by the slightest thing. Until now I have had control and kept it all under wraps from my daughter, this year though it's the talk of the playground and she wants to dress up as a witch and go trick or treating. There's no way my son will come out that door with us and there's no way I can leave him in alone on that particular night, there's also no way my daughter is going out alone. If I could ban Halloween I would.

[Betty Boop]

spot;1334740 wrote: It's a disgusting practice all round, the further I can keep it from my door the better. It involves a total abandonment of reality and a great deal of lying to children.


Lying? More like intentionally frightening the crap out of them in the name of so called fun. And what about the 'tricks' that get played if you don't 'treat' the kids.

[K.Snyder]

Oh the usual,..jumping out from behind a bush in a dark pathway scaring the * out of kids with blood dripping from the likes of my skull!

Sadly, I haven't made any plans for Halloween yet.

[K.Snyder]

spot;1334740 wrote: It's a disgusting practice all round, the further I can keep it from my door the better. It involves a total abandonment of reality and a great deal of lying to children.


Yes but kids love it

[K.Snyder]

Actually, I wonder what the ratio is between dentists and their desire to "celebrate" Halloween associated with other professions...

[spot]

K.Snyder;1334884 wrote: Yes but kids love it


If kids love it, what was Betty's post all about?

[Odie]

K.Snyder;1334884 wrote: Yes but kids love it


They do!

However, I believe some are just way to young and it scares them.

What I dislike is teens dressing up just to get candy.

and some of those masks they wear are for teens/adults Halloween parties, not for Halloween trick or treating, some scare the sh** out of me.

Then you get the kids who ask, can I have some for my brother, my cousin and my sister, while the mother says nothing?:sneaky:

all in all, it can be a great night for goblins.:guitarist

[spot]

Odie;1334898 wrote: However, I believe some are just way to young and it scares them.What's old enough, Odie? You seem to be blithely waltzing past Betty's post where she highlights the major terrors involved for some children. If you give an idea of how old isn't "way to young" we can compare.

[Odie]

spot;1334906 wrote: What's old enough, Odie? You seem to be blithely waltzing past Betty's post where she highlights the major terrors involved for some children. If you give an idea of how old isn't "way to young" we can compare.


Spot, I did not waltz as you call it past Betty's post and furthermore she has every right to give her opinion just like I do. It doesn't mean two people think alike in every aspect.

The age is up to the parent obviously, they know if their child is ready or not.

[Peg]

I grew up believing in Santa, the Easter Bunny, Toothfairy, etc. Not once did I ever view it as my parents lying to me. To this day, I am grateful for those wonderful childhood memories.

[spot]

Peg;1334914 wrote: I grew up believing in Santa, the Easter Bunny, Toothfairy, etc. Not once did I ever view it as my parents lying to me.Surely that's more a deficiency in your recognition of lying than truth in what you were told, simply as a matter of definition.

[Betty Boop]

Peg;1334914 wrote: I grew up believing in Santa, the Easter Bunny, Toothfairy, etc. Not once did I ever view it as my parents lying to me. To this day, I am grateful for those wonderful childhood memories.


I have to say though, the thought of someone coming into the house to deliver presents or to take teeth fills my son with dread as well. I told my son years ago the truth as otherwise he'd have not slept any Christmas Eve or any time he'd lost a tooth. My other struggle with the idea of Santa is that children write a huge long list and expect Santa to deliver all they want. Never has Santa provided any large presents in this house, all stocking fillers come from him and the big presents are labelled from the person that actually bought them.

I can remember as a child being petrified of all the old men dressed up in santa suits in their grottos. There was no way you'd get me in one, let alone go and sit on Santa's knee and both my children have been the same. The sight of a man appearing in the big red suit was always enough to send them running behind my legs in terror. I remember my Gran telling me that my Mum was exactly the same at that age. Then I recall my Mum telling my son not to be so silly and get up there and see santa at a christmas party once, she was actually annoyed and told me my son was showing her up lol I told her she was evidently remembering the 'joy' of santa through rose coloured spectacles :rolleyes:

[K.Snyder]

Betty Boop;1334853 wrote: I have to admit I really dislike Halloween, it frightens the hell out of my son. Even schools tell spooky stories in the run up to it. When you have a child that views the world literally and doesn't grasp the fact that those stories are actually make believe it's no fun at all. I have had to put notes on the front door asking people not to knock over the last three years. I generally spend two weeks either side of Halloween with a spooked child who won't go up to bed alone and becomes freaked out by the slightest thing. Until now I have had control and kept it all under wraps from my daughter, this year though it's the talk of the playground and she wants to dress up as a witch and go trick or treating. There's no way my son will come out that door with us and there's no way I can leave him in alone on that particular night, there's also no way my daughter is going out alone. If I could ban Halloween I would.


That's very unfortunate...

I've had quite alot of experiences as a child and the ones I remember the most was Halloween, Christmas, Thanksgiving, The 4th of July, and New Years...I loved and enjoyed all of them.

I do see a cause for concern with Halloween but only in regards to the children being out alone and vulnerable and the safety related to people walking up an down dark streets. As for the numbers...

spot;1334893 wrote: If kids love it, what was Betty's post all about?I'd say that most kids in the US enjoy Halloween quite alot...

Considering safety issues I'd have no problem with getting rid of Halloween, all I'm saying is that an extensive majority of people in the United States remembers Halloween as a very joyous time, one that they would equally exclaim to be a missed opportunity to have fun

What's always popular is not always right so sure get rid of Halloween. I suppose the safety of even one is enough to abandon the entire event. Halloween wouldn't be the only event abandoned so I only hope those that get rid of them replaces them with equally as fun practices that are obviously more safe

[K.Snyder]

spot;1334921 wrote: Surely that's more a deficiency in your recognition of lying than truth in what you were told, simply as a matter of definition.


Well there's that or of course not all lies are horribly despicable too...

[spot]

K.Snyder;1335014 wrote: I suppose the safety of even one is enough to abandon the entire event.I don't give a toss about child safety, that's a matter for the child's parents. My concern is firstly a moral one as regards the pointless lying, and secondly the avoidance of complete terror and bewilderment in those children who fail to understand what's being pretended regardless of any attempt to explain it to them. Given the prevalence of Halloween they simply can't avoid it.

[K.Snyder]

spot;1335017 wrote: I don't give a toss about child safety, that's a matter for the child's parents. My concern is firstly a moral one as regards the pointless lying, and secondly the avoidance of complete terror and bewilderment in those children who fail to understand what's being pretended regardless of any attempt to explain it to them. Given the prevalence of Halloween they simply can't avoid it.The kids that know Halloween is a lie are the ones that are able to enjoy it, the rest is up to the confused parent who doesn't know the difference between a threat and a joke.

[Odie]

K.Snyder;1335019 wrote: The kids that know Halloween is a lie are the ones that are able to enjoy it, the rest is up to the confused parent who doesn't know the difference between a threat and a joke.


bravo!:guitarist

[along-for-the-ride]

A brief history of Halloween:

History of Halloween

[spot]

K.Snyder;1335019 wrote: The kids that know Halloween is a lie are the ones that are able to enjoy it, the rest is up to the confused parent who doesn't know the difference between a threat and a joke.


Odie;1335020 wrote: bravo!:guitarist
Neither of you seem capable of comprehending what Betty's written in the thread - "blithely waltzing past", as I put it some posts earlier. Perhaps you could go back and try again. In what sense are you describing her as a confused parent, the pair of you? She's not "giving her opinion" as Odie put it, she's describing her experience.

[K.Snyder]

spot;1335033 wrote: Neither of you seem capable of comprehending what Betty's written in the thread - "blithely waltzing past", as I put it some posts earlier. Perhaps you could go back and try again. In what sense are you describing her as a confused parent, the pair of you? She's not "giving her opinion" as Odie put it, she's describing her experience.


That's very fine. She's every right to keep her child away from the acts. I don't see a particular problem with keeping a child away from the events. To place a bit of my own empathy I'd say would be equal to myself keeping my child outside the range of 100 yards from any church. The simple fact is that both will exist regardless.

I've no problem with an all out ban but my preference to do so is entirely to do with the immediate safety of people. I have yet to see someone throw their child into a deafening haunted house mimicking that of your average butcher shop within extremely questionable environments so this obviously backs up my observations of Halloween as being harmless and a night of fun, not enjoying it is a handicap.

If it's proven that the practices associated with Halloween resemble a zoo filled with razor back gorillas apparently on LSD then get rid of the creep show, I suppose nothing fun ever lasts

[Oscar Namechange]

spot;1334740 wrote: It's a disgusting practice all round, the further I can keep it from my door the better. It involves a total abandonment of reality and a great deal of lying to children.
I do not like It either Spot although we do give If children call on us.

The 3 dogs kicking up a racket and the 'Beware of the dog' sign does tend to keep them away.

I do not mind young children when they really make an effort but It Is teenagers who roam the streets mob handed that needs to be stopped.

[Betty Boop]

K.Snyder;1335052 wrote: That's very fine. She's every right to keep her child away from the acts. I don't see a particular problem with keeping a child away from the events. To place a bit of my own empathy I'd say would be equal to myself keeping my child outside the range of 100 yards from any church. The simple fact is that both will exist regardless.

I've no problem with an all out ban but my preference to do so is entirely to do with the immediate safety of people. I have yet to see someone throw their child into a deafening haunted house mimicking that of your average butcher shop within extremely questionable environments so this obviously backs up my observations of Halloween as being harmless and a night of fun, not enjoying it is a handicap.

If it's proven that the practices associated with Halloween resemble a zoo filled with razor back gorillas apparently on LSD then get rid of the creep show, I suppose nothing fun ever lasts


I do! But what I can't do is control what the school do, I can't control the spooky story the teacher decides to tell in story time, nor any films they choose to show to the children with a halloween theme. I also cannot stop every other shop having a huge window display that he refuses to walk past. I can put signs up requesting people not to knock but still some do. I actively steer clear of halloween but it's a bloody hard job to do so when others insist that we should be joining in their 'fun'. It involves several weeks of no going into town, popping round to all the local children that we know and explaining that it frightens my son and asking them not to call on our house that night. What I can't control are the children that call in from further away than my street, ones I've never clapped eyes on before in my life, they're the ones that get annoyed you won't join their fun and leave 'tricks' of eggs and flour all over your front windows, door and steps.

Churches do that to no one around these parts.

[along-for-the-ride]

along-for-the-ride;1335021 wrote: A brief history of Halloween:

History of Halloween


a BUMP in the night.......

[Saint_]

JestersJinx;1334708 wrote: What's everyone planning this year?

With friends, family, kids, haunted houses, costumes, etc.


Halloween is the biggest holiday of the year for my friends. We have a huge Halloween party / BBQ / pool tournament / darts tournament. Every year has a theme and the girls spend all month decorating. Last year was "Toga Party" the year before that was "Medieval times." and the year before that was "Space Aliens." About 20 - 30 couples come to the party, all of us around 30 - 50. There's a jacuzzi, a fire pit in the back yard, and horseshoes as well. Usually a poker game will start up around midnight. I left at about 4 am last year! (We always arrange 4 paid designated drivers with four pickup and deliver cars, so no one drives to the party and no one drinks and drives.)

It's really the only time during the year we all go crazy!

This year's theme is "Wild Things." A total blast!

[Saint_]

spot;1334740 wrote: It's a disgusting practice all round, the further I can keep it from my door the better. It involves a total abandonment of reality and a great deal of lying to children.


Well then, you should have a blast on "Ebeneezer Scrooge Day." Humbug!

. It's harmless, gives you lots of free candy, and takes some of the boredom of daily existence away. It's called "innocent fun," spot...You remember... from your childhood?:rolleyes:

[spot]

Saint_;1335228 wrote: . It's harmless, gives you lots of free candy, and takes some of the boredom of daily existence away. It's called "innocent fun," spot...You remember... from your childhood?:rolleyes:When you've caught up with Betty's contributions to the thread perhaps you'd like to discuss it with her, nobody else seems prepared to.

[Saint_]

spot;1334846 wrote: Anyone inflicting that sort of bull on children deserves all they get when the resulting adults-are-liars hit their teenage years..


Imagination is a bad thing? When all the kids stuff is pre-imagined for them? From DVDs to videogames? They need the creative outlet! Halloween is very similar to the role-playing that all children do when growing up, to see what being another kind of person would be like. From playing doctor to fireman to policeman.

As for you Betty, there is definitely something else going on. Is your child learning disabled? You seem to imply that he can't separate pretending from reality. Maybe it's similar to children who become afraid of the water when they're not taught to swim at a young age? Perhaps if you had made a game of "dressing up" when they were younger and going out with them in a safe and controlled way? My mother and I made my own costumes for many years, it was a fun arts and crafts time together!

But I'm not a psychologist, and that certainly sounds like a phobic reaction, so I'd say ask someone more qualified.

[Odie]

Saint_;1335226 wrote: Halloween is the biggest holiday of the year for my friends. We have a huge Halloween party / BBQ / pool tournament / darts tournament. Every year has a theme and the girls spend all month decorating. Last year was "Toga Party" the year before that was "Medieval times." and the year before that was "Space Aliens." About 20 - 30 couples come to the party, all of us around 30 - 50. There's a jacuzzi, a fire pit in the back yard, and horseshoes as well. Usually a poker game will start up around midnight. I left at about 4 am last year! (We always arrange 4 paid designated drivers with four pickup and deliver cars, so no one drives to the party and no one drinks and drives.)

It's really the only time during the year we all go crazy!

This year's theme is "Wild Things." A total blast!


Oh gosh, that has to be so much fun and I love the idea of a different theme each year.

Everything from food and designated drivers is arranged.

I would have loved to see costumes from 'Medieval times'.:guitarist



I really would love to see some pics from this years "Wild Things':yh_rotfl

and what would be Halloween if you didn't leave at 4 a.m. to see all the creatures, ghosts and goblins.:yh_pumpkn:yh_devil:yh_party:yh_alien:yh_alien:yh_alien2

Attached files

[K.Snyder]

Betty Boop;1335102 wrote: I do! But what I can't do is control what the school do, I can't control the spooky story the teacher decides to tell in story time, nor any films they choose to show to the children with a halloween theme. I also cannot stop every other shop having a huge window display that he refuses to walk past. I can put signs up requesting people not to knock but still some do. I actively steer clear of halloween but it's a bloody hard job to do so when others insist that we should be joining in their 'fun'. It involves several weeks of no going into town, popping round to all the local children that we know and explaining that it frightens my son and asking them not to call on our house that night. What I can't control are the children that call in from further away than my street, ones I've never clapped eyes on before in my life, they're the ones that get annoyed you won't join their fun and leave 'tricks' of eggs and flour all over your front windows, door and steps.

Churches do that to no one around these parts.Public schools in America prohibit costumes in schools. Sounds like you need government intervening. I personally agree that we should keep Haloween out of schools...

When this is achieved one can easily keep their child home for the one or maybe two days thereafter that Halloween is prevelant in schools on a very minimal scale relative to a child getting the bloody terror scared out of them...

It also sounds like you have a very problematic youth population that needs to be addressed as well.

Perhaps at the end of the day it's your culture that isn't ready for Halloween.

[Betty Boop]

Saint_;1335233 wrote: Imagination is a bad thing? When all the kids stuff is pre-imagined for them? From DVDs to videogames? They need the creative outlet! Halloween is very similar to the role-playing that all children do when growing up, to see what being another kind of person would be like. From playing doctor to fireman to policeman.

As for you Betty, there is definitely something else going on. Is your child learning disabled? You seem to imply that he can't separate pretending from reality. Maybe it's similar to children who become afraid of the water when they're not taught to swim at a young age? Perhaps if you had made a game of "dressing up" when they were younger and going out with them in a safe and controlled way? My mother and I made my own costumes for many years, it was a fun arts and crafts time together!

But I'm not a psychologist, and that certainly sounds like a phobic reaction, so I'd say ask someone more qualified.


Has anyone ever accused you of sounding like a typically arrogant and condescending teacher Jives?

My son has been diagnosed by a psychologist as having Aspergers, although I didn't need a psychologist to tell me that. No doubt you've done a course on the condition and know all about it. :rolleyes:

He's certainly been taught to swim and just making the suggestion of making a Halloween costume has always filled him with dread. It's not just halloween dress up it's any form of changing a persons appearance from too much make-up to face masks (same difference really).

He is far from being the only child in my circle of friends who is scared of Halloween, we can't all be incompetent Mother's surely?

[theia]

I cannot believe the way in which Betty's contribution to this thread has been virtually ignored or worse, trivialised.

We are all entitled to our opinions on Halloween but isnt FG usually about discussion and, furthermore, a little understanding?

[kazalala]

theia;1335309 wrote: I cannot believe the way in which Betty's contribution to this thread has been virtually ignored or worse, trivialised.

We are all entitled to our opinions on Halloween but isnt FG usually about discussion and, furthermore, a little understanding?


I dont think betty had posted before i even decided to leave the discussion,, but i have been reading.

I feel for Betty and of course her son, but i dont realy know what to say of it having no experince,,, i do know though as a mother betty will know her child better than anyone and how is best to deal with him. Its quite sad, and must be very upsetting indeed

[Kathy Ellen]

K.Snyder;1335247 wrote: Public schools in America prohibit costumes in schools. Sounds like you need government intervening. I personally agree that we should keep Haloween out of schools...

When this is achieved one can easily keep their child home for the one or maybe two days thereafter that Halloween is prevelant in schools on a very minimal scale relative to a child getting the bloody terror scared out of them...

It also sounds like you have a very problematic youth population that needs to be addressed as well.

Perhaps at the end of the day it's your culture that isn't ready for Halloween.


Hi Kev,



Some things you're saying here are not true.



Many of our public schools in NJ do allow Halloween parties in the classroom and a parade around the school with kidlets dressed up in full costumes.

We also have very nasty, arrogant children, teens and adults who have egged their neighbor's homes and harrassed them because they didn't open their doors to the trick-or-treaters. It cost my neighbor $300 to clean the tossed, rotten eggs from her home.

I can't believe the way some members have spoken to Betty. She has a special needs child who cannot cope with the hubbub of Halloween. Her child needs and deserves peace and quiet, NOT neighbors banging on her door when she's asked them not to.

Perhaps if some members spent a few hours with a special needs child, they would understand how difficult it is for these children to cope with seeing monsters banging on their door.

I work in a school with regular ed kids and special ed kids. You can't even imagine the pain some of the children feel when they encounter things they don't understand.

I can't believe some of the comments some members have made to Betty and really wish some of you would apologize for being so insensitive.

If you think I'm asking too much, just spend a bit of time in a special ed or kindergarten class and see how some of the children react to Halloween.

[K.Snyder]

I suppose that's that then. We get rid of Halloween. No more Halloween, ever.

I think it's worth saying that when I was a child I had the Holy terror scared out of me at Chucky Cheese when that curtain draped open and that 10' bear started wailing on the drum set. It wasn't his completely unorthodox playing style but the site of it was enough to cause me to go into a complete conniption fit.

No more Chucky Cheese either.

[Kathy Ellen]

K.Snyder;1335599 wrote: I suppose that's that then. We get rid of Halloween. No more Halloween, ever.

I think it's worth saying that when I was a child I had the Holy terror scared out of me at Chucky Cheese when that curtain draped open and that 10' bear started wailing on the drum set. It wasn't his completely unorthodox playing style but the site of it was enough to cause me to go into a complete conniption fit.

No more Chucky Cheese either.


I never said we should do away with Halloween Kev. But, why should Betty's child suffer in his own home when Betty has asked the neighbors not to come to her door on Halloween?

Apparently you were able to cope with terror, Betty's child does not have the ability to deal with terror. Why should he suffer in the santuary of his own home?

[K.Snyder]

Kathy Ellen;1335597 wrote: Hi Kev,



Some things you're saying here are not true.



Many of our public schools in NJ do allow Halloween parties in the classroom and a parade around the school with kidlets dressed up in full costumes.

We also have very nasty, arrogant children, teens and adults who have egged their neighbor's homes and harrassed them because they didn't open their doors to the trick-or-treaters. It cost my neighbor $300 to clean the tossed, rotten eggs from her home.

I can't believe the way some members have spoken to Betty. She has a special needs child who cannot cope with the hubbub of Halloween. Her child needs and deserves peace and quiet, NOT neighbors banging on her door when she's asked them not to.

Perhaps if some members spent a few hours with a special needs child, they would understand how difficult it is for these children to cope with seeing monsters banging on their door.

I work in a school with regular ed kids and special ed kids. You can't even imagine the pain some of the children feel when they encounter things they don't understand.

I can't believe some of the comments some members have made to Betty and really wish some of you would apologize for being so insensitive.

If you think I'm asking too much, just spend a bit of time in a special ed or kindergarten class and see how some of the children react to Halloween.I think all schools would do themselves a favor by not allowing Halloween in schools. Schools should be treated as an investment into education and not anything else distracting them. School is school and when kids are not permitted to engage in fun activities specifically out of school then is equally as atrocious. Besides, not everyone likes Halloween.

[K.Snyder]

Kathy Ellen;1335600 wrote: I never said we should do away with Halloween Kev. But, why should Betty's child suffer in his own home when Betty has asked the neighbors not to come to her door on Halloween?

Apparently you were able to cope with terror, Betty's child does not have the ability to deal with terror. Why should he suffer in the santuary of his own home?I have absolutely no idea why anyone would think that I don't care about what people deal with. My entire emphasis has been on a very pragmatic notion to either get rid of Halloween or keep it. How "insensitive" could ever come up next to my name is a grave misunderstanding. If anyone would like to show me what I could have written, ever, that was insensitive I'd be forever grateful for your effort.

I'd not so much as called anyone a "liar"