N Korea S Korea exchange artillery fire.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:56 am

Once again. I doubt anything will become of it.

North, South Korea exchange fire; 2 marines killed | General Headlines | Comcast.net

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:56 am

Is there anything that you would like to see happen regarding this incident?

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:33 am

Yes. A cessation of hostilities and a peace treaty between the 2 countries. As a secondary goal S Korea should remove its military presence from the island. We all know the powers that be will not allow the first option to happen but the second would certainly go far to bring about a more peaceful area.

Were I a NK general and SK was putting radars up so close to my area in that particular position I'd blow them away first chance I came across.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:37 am

It's a good time for China-sponsored NK to start hostilities again. The US is pretty much on the outs with most of our allies, our CinC is a puss, and the UN is more likely to support China than us. The monetary drain might topple us.

This might finally be the end of the US military empire.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:23 am

Accountable;1344795 wrote: It's a good time for China-sponsored NK to start hostilities again. The US is pretty much on the outs with most of our allies, our CinC is a puss, and the UN is more likely to support China than us. The monetary drain might topple us.

This might finally be the end of the US military empire.Stop teasing.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:29 am

Scrat;1344794 wrote: Yes. A cessation of hostilities and a peace treaty between the 2 countries. As a secondary goal S Korea should remove its military presence from the island. We all know the powers that be will not allow the first option to happen but the second would certainly go far to bring about a more peaceful area.

Were I a NK general and SK was putting radars up so close to my area in that particular position I'd blow them away first chance I came across.

Does any of the NK military deployments and facilities in such close proximity to SK concern you? Wouldn't their withdrawal go a long way to meet that secondary goal?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:59 am

Ahso!;1344796 wrote: Stop teasing.

*snort*

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:00 pm

Does any of the NK military deployments and facilities in such close proximity to SK concern you?

Certainly. One person makes a mistake and touches the wrong button in NK and you have 40,000 guns shooting over the border, and a lot of those rounds will be headed for Seoul. A lot of people would die. I suggest you look on google earth at that island. It is due west of the DMZ, to put radars ect on it gives SK a tactical advantage. Demilitarize it. I think SK should have better judgement when it comes to the safety of the people there. Don't you think so Lon?

Wouldn't their withdrawal go a long way to meet that secondary goal?

Wouldn't SK withdrawing it's forces first accomplish the same thing? How about the US withdrawing its troops from the peninsula? Considering the parties concerned and their track record I think that would be best.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:44 pm

Scrat;1344817 wrote: Certainly. One person makes a mistake and touches the wrong button in NK and you have 40,000 guns shooting over the border, and a lot of those rounds will be headed for Seoul. A lot of people would die. I suggest you look on google earth at that island. It is due west of the DMZ, to put radars ect on it gives SK a tactical advantage. Demilitarize it. I think SK should have better judgement when it comes to the safety of the people there. Don't you think so Lon?

Wouldn't SK withdrawing it's forces first accomplish the same thing? How about the US withdrawing its troops from the peninsula? Considering the parties concerned and their track record I think that would be best.

Yes, I do think SK should not do anything to antagonize NK. There is too much at stake. Who was at fault with the ship incident though?

I was in Korea in 53 and 54 and don't look forward to having one of my grandchildren go there other than as a tourist.

koan · Post by **koan** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:17 pm

My daughter wants to live in Korea... And marry one of the Shinee K-pop singers. So hopefully they don't get drafted. In fact, hopefully this doesn't delay their next video release.

dchistoryman · Post by **dchistoryman** » Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:08 am

First off I suspect that the West has both encouraged and funded the installation of the equipment.

Not sure where the idea comes from that the UN would support China more than the USA.

This is all about internal power, the chief lunatic wants to hand over to the third son lunatic and some of the military are less than happy.

Make no mistake this IS a dangerous situation mainly because the stakes are so high for those near to the throne.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:59 am

Unfortunately Koan, you may not see it. America is choosing to escalate the incident.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/24/world ... nes&emc=a2

America is also going to use this as an excuse to militarize the area for other purposes, namely the attempted subjugation of China.

koan · Post by **koan** » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:10 pm

North Korea has been a threat for a very long time. America didn't create Kim Jong-Il. I don't think there are many countries that could have lived next to that dude for so long and expected it to never be a problem.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:36 pm

It's incredulous ---------- when I view recent films taken in NK and listen to the obviously brain washed people praise their Glorious Leader, look at the grim faced military leaders, view the Goose Stepping male and female soldiers and the grim austere surroundings it seems like something out of a bad dream or novel. What one single thing does this country have that any other country would wish to emulate other than unchallenged power for a handful of despotic old men. Too bad we can't wave a wand and make them disappear.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:09 pm

North Korea has been a threat for a very long time. America didn't create Kim Jong-Il. I don't think there are many countries that could have lived next to that dude for so long and expected it to never be a problem.

With all due respect Koan, you only know what the western media tells you. I cringe at making any judgments about the NKs The last president of SK made great strides towards peace between the 2 countries, it was shot down just when real progress was being made. How can you condemn one side when your own side has no interest in a solution?

koan · Post by **koan** » Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:53 pm

So explain to me where the Kim Jongs came from and why they like to taunt the world with possessing nuclear power.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:35 am

Well I found a little bit more info on the situation. Seems that SK had about 70000 troops in the area on an "exercise", practicing for a possible invasion of NK. I'm not going to pay much attention to the rest of the article or the site as my time is limited. Someone was shooting BEFORE the NKs opened up.

Korea ‘crisis’ made in Washington

But America and SK didn't do anything wrong? I think they did, I think they were foolish and the NKs are very skittish for some reason.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:32 am

It is a prime location for a proxy war between China and the US. It would be really unfortunate if Koreans die in order for other countries to have a pissing contest.

That aside, Kim Jong-Il has been a bit flamboyant with wanting the world to know he is nuclear. After all the taunting, I'd expect him to be skittish.

I looked through the South Korean newspapers online (that have English versions) and they don't seem too worried about it though a few politicians are insisting it's an act of war. The rest of the world seems to be more concerned than they are. They did have an amusing article about Palin getting mixed up as to which side of Korea the US supports. lol

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:58 am

Whichever one Obama supports, Palin will of course support it's opposite.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:40 am

koan;1344971 wrote: So explain to me where the Kim Jongs came from and why they like to taunt the world with possessing nuclear power.

Knowing the background history might help.

BBC - History - World Wars: The Korean War: An Overview

Korean War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:06 pm

That aside, Kim Jong-Il has been a bit flamboyant with wanting the world to know he is nuclear. After all the taunting, I'd expect him to be skittish.

They do have nuclear weapons? To my knowledge they only have a nuclear program. There is no hard proof nuclear weapons as yet. If they want the world to think they have nukes I'd call that good strategy. It keeps the muggers at bay if they think you have a gun, It can actually save lives as the concept of MAD has shown us concerning the USSR and USA.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:40 pm

Scrat;1345023 wrote: They do have nuclear weapons? To my knowledge they only have a nuclear program. There is no hard proof nuclear weapons as yet. If they want the world to think they have nukes I'd call that good strategy. It keeps the muggers at bay if they think you have a gun, It can actually save lives as the concept of MAD has shown us concerning the USSR and USA.

:wah: Gee, I dunno... does Israel have nuclear weapons?

Unlike Israel, NK announced they have them. In 2006.

But he cited the example of North Korea, whose nuclear capabilities were unclear until it conducted a test in 2006, which it followed with a second shortly after Mr. Obama took office.

“I think it’s safe to say that there was a time when North Korea was said to be simply a nuclear-capable state until it kicked out the I.A.E.A. and become a self-professed nuclear state,” he said, referring to the International Atomic Energy Agency. “And so rather than splitting hairs on this, I think that the international community has a strong sense of what it means to pursue civilian nuclear energy for peaceful purposes versus a weaponizing capability.”
eta: source http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/world/06arms.html

I'm with you on nukes being a good deterrent. I rather hope Iran does get nukes. I am, however, a little unclear as to where that "strong sense" went when they were choosing which countries to attack for hiding WMD. It was rather comical when Kim Jong Il made a big nuclear show while Americans had their heads in bunkers all over the Middle East looking for non-existent nukes and he barely got a glance over the shoulder. He really just wants attention.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:58 am

Ahso!;1345001 wrote: Whichever one Obama supports, Palin will of course support it's opposite.Told ya!

Sarah Palin's North Korea Slip: 'We've Gotta Stand With Our North Korean Allies' (AUDIO)

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:27 pm

Ahso!;1345049 wrote: Told ya!

Sarah Palin's North Korea Slip: 'We've Gotta Stand With Our North Korean Allies' (AUDIO)

I like yopur politicians they are much funnier than ours.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:59 pm

Cute video Koan but this is way more serious. If a war starts on the peninsula it will be a catastrophe of biblical proportions, millions are going to die. I'm no admirer of Kim or his family/cronies nor am I an admirer of our southern allies. My special contempt is for my own nation in this matter. Apparently N Korea is technically still at war not only with SK but also the US. No treaties can be signed without the approval of all parties concerned.

Has a funny smell to it doesn't it? All these years and no peace treaty. I think the US is to blame for most of this, I think that if the US were to be thrown out of the picture all this crap would stop.

koan · Post by **koan** » Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:05 pm

I'm reading the bible and their wars aren't that huge. It seems like it, but it's really just a bunch of "they win the land, they lose the land, they win the land, they lose the land" and they didn't have bombs. I think this would have to be bigger than the biblical wars just by virtue of the bigger weapons.

I'm still not concerned about imminent danger until the SK newspapers seem concerned about it.

In the bigger picture, yes, it should be resolved by now.

koan · Post by **koan** » Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:43 pm

There are a few more articles about the NK threat in their papers today. As many as there are about their sports and entertainment figures... so that's a sign they care.

What really caught my attention though was an article about America. Freakin' hilarious. This is what they are being told about y'all.

The Seoul Times

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:47 pm

Say no more. The N Koreans retaliated.

YouTube - 2nd Korean War? South admits firing first shells in row with North Korea

There is also a rumor floating around the S Koreans were trying to get out their version of a seal special ops team that was about to get caught in their shenanigans on the beach. The Sks fired some shots to make them keep their heads down and the N Koreans retaliated. I would not be surprised if the S Koreans were playing games and got caught with their hands in the cookie jar, and took calculated risk to get the guys butts out of the fire.

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:14 am

This moral disarmament prevented the French from stopping Hitler when his forces were still weaker than theirs. Hitler was able to build up his forces and invade France during World War II. This time the French did not fight four long years to protect their liberty. They surrendered in just six weeks.

Oh-my-freaking-god.

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

That guy knows nothing about the Franco German war. France did not lose because of moral fiber, they lost because their military doctrine was a failure. They knew they were beaten and did the best thing they could at the time. This was key, the French had no time. Russia was the opposite end of the spectrum, even with the Wehrmacht sweeping across the Don plains the Russians KNEW they weren't beaten. Between the peoples hardiness and their sheer obstinate nature they fared better than the French even though they at first used the same doctrines. The key was the physics of time and space. The Russians had time and space, a place to retreat too, the French had neither. I do think it took a hell of a lot of guts to submit to Hitler in itself.

The rest of that is a thread in itself.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:23 am

Scrat;1345122 wrote: Oh-my-freaking-god.

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

That guy knows nothing about the Franco German war. France did not lose because of moral fiber, they lost because their military doctrine was a failure. They knew they were beaten and did the best thing they could at the time. This was key, the French had no time. Russia was the opposite end of the spectrum, even with the Wehrmacht sweeping across the Don plains the Russians KNEW they weren't beaten. Between the peoples hardiness and their sheer obstinate nature they fared better than the French even though they at first used the same doctrines. The key was the physics of time and space. The Russians had time and space, a place to retreat too, the French had neither. I do think it took a hell of a lot of guts to submit to Hitler in itself.

The rest of that is a thread in itself.

yep. pretty funny stuff. glad you read it :p

kathaksung · Post by **kathaksung** » Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:49 pm

That's just another puppet show directed by the US.

Hound lost value to exist when the fox extinguished. To justify its value to exist, modern hound to cultivate fox.

The modern fox created by the Feds are North Korea and Al Qaida. With which Feds keep on asking for more power and money from people.

Different from Iraq and Iran, North Korea always get reward from its master for what it did - food aid, economic aid for its nuclear weapon production, missile test, war threat....

U.S. to Ship Oil To North Korea

Bush Cites Progress on Denuclearization

By Peter Baker

Washington Post Staff Writer

Saturday, September 29, 2007

The president's order means the United States soon will send 50,000 metric tons of fuel worth about $25 million to the impoverished and isolated Stalinist government. In justifying the move, the White House cited North Korea's recent commitment to complete an inventory of its nuclear programs and disable its existing nuclear facilities by the end of the year.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...092801879.html
Resumption of U.S. Food Assistance to the North Korean People

May 16, 2008

Press Office: 202-712-4320

Public Information: 202-712-4810

U.S. Agency for International Development

The United States intends to provide the DPRK (North Korea) with 500,000 metric tons in food commodities over the course of a 12-month program beginning in June 2008,

USAID Press Release: Resumption of U.S. Food Assistance to the North Korean People

Scrat · Post by **Scrat** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:29 pm

It doesn't really look like the SKs and US are going to stop their posturing any time soon. So far NK is sitting tight.

Things are really down to the wire, this could still get bad.

This is some commentary from a Canadian guy who seems to know what he's talking about. RT is not necessarily a source I think I can trust but once in awhile they're right on the money.

YouTube - 'US, South will pulverize Pyongyang if North takes bait'