I just wanna say that anyone who doesn't believe that Jesus lived is living a lie. Jesus did live. And Jesus did die. And anyone who denies that is endowed with the Spirit of the Anti-Christ.
The fact is that Jesus lived, and was murdered. He died because He knew He was supposed to. The only reason why the records have been skewed is because the Romans skewed it. Who took over the entire Christian movement after Christ died? It was the Romans. And who killed Jesus in the first place? It was the Romans. Even the Romans didn't have the balls at the time to admit that Jesus never lived. They didn't admit this because they knew that everyone would call them out on that lie because so many people had been effected by Jesus's Life and what He did at the time that the only thing the Romans could possibly do was to take over the movement and try to control it. And they were very successful in doing so. The Catholic church was born after the Roman's hijacked Christianity and hunted down any Christian sect that opposed them and called them all heretics. So Jesus did live. The Romans had no choice but to admit He lived, and they knew that everyone else knew that He lived, so they just decided to take over the script and even rewrite it in some ways.
Then, The Gospel of Thomas was discovered. Other documents were discovered. Were the Romans successful after the generations had died off who knew that Jesus lived at hiding any proof of His existence? Yes, they were. But you don't get an entire nation of people carrying on a movement if the movement was born out of a lie. The only reason a group of people would CONTINUE a movement is because they knew that the movement was powerful and they therefore decided to carry on with it. The movement was already there. All they did was continue it and distort it.
Now fastforward 2,000 years. You have people denying that the holocaust happened in Germany only because barely anyone is left who was actually there to witness it. Well we didn't have video footage of Jesus like we do with the Nazis so because of that it is easy for someone 2,000 years later to claim that the entire Christian movement which started after Jesus's death was invented by the church. That's nonsense. The Church could never have gotten away with inventing a movement like that at the time unless it was the truth. So as I said they did not invent the movement the Romans merely took it over and made it their own because they saw the potential of it and the power that could be gained from controlling which direction the movement went in as well as making lots of money from the movement. Imagine the amount of money that the Catholic church has made from the movement of Christianity in the past 2,000 years. It is incredible. Probably incalculable.
So anyways, for an atheist to sit here and type that Jesus never existed is pure foolishness. And they obviously don't understand how the entire Christian movement started in the first place. It didn't begin with the church, it began with the followers and started at the bottom. Only when the Romans took interest in it did it become controlled at the top levels by governments and nations and churches. Only then. But it started with the people, because it WAS REAL.
Zeitgiest and all the other nonsense that has come out since then in our modern day is only correct in the fact that the date for Jesus's birthday may have been purposely placed on other days that happen to coincide with other legends of other "sons of God". But the fact remains that the movement itself only started because Jesus was real. Otherwise it would have never started. So for anyone to deny that Jesus was real is talking pure nonsense. Yes the Romans corrupted it and infiltrated it and even placed Pagan traditions inside of it, but that should never take away from the fact that thousands of people who knew that Jesus existed were the ones who started the movement in the first place. It may have been tens of thousands. But they started it underground, for fear of persecution from the Romans, who at the time wanted nothing to do with it, until they realized that there was no stopping it, and that it was growing bigger than any Pagan religion could ever be, and had way more potential, and so they decided to take it over.
If anything, the proof for Jesus's existence has probably been hidden by the Catholic church and the Vatican. Hidden by the Romans before that. But just because it was hidden doesn't make it untrue. The best way to control a movement is to hide any evidence contrary to what you are trying to do with it! So if anyone had reason to hide the Truth about Jesus's existence and anything that might prove contrary to what the church teaches about how He lived and what He did and this is why we are missing the biggest chunks of Jesus's life in the Biblical Scriptures because it is not coincidence there is no such thing and the church twisted it in a certain way and also anything else that might point to the fact that Jesus never wanted the Romans to control His movement (that HE originated) was distorted as well, than surely the best way to do that would be to hide those records. Obviously. Though they kept the tradition of Jesus the man in the Holy Bible because they knew that if they didn't someone would call them out on it. And now they are so entrenched in it that the Catholic church could never admit that Jesus didn't exist because they have been behind the Christian movement since the Romans took it over.
Jesus did exist. Christ IS the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords. Don't mock the greatest man that ever walked the Earth simply because you think it's cool and trendy to do so. You may not be realizing the damage you are doing to your Soul and to the World by getting behind such a ridiculous argument. You'll tell your kids that Santa Claus exists because you think it's cute but you won't admit that Jesus walked the Earth? What the hell is wrong with that picture? You wake up every CHRISTmas morning to open presents from Jolly old Saint Nick but you won't get up to wish Jesus a happy birthday (whether the date is correct for that or not). We have become a World of materialism. We have gotten so far away from Jesus's teachings that we don't even know what's up and down anymore and so we try to fill our emptiness with dead things that aren't alive. We have forgotten the importance of Life and the importance of Living Things. We focus too much on death and destruction and war and not enough on peace, love, and happiness. We cheer for football games and we swear that it matters if our team loses in the playoffs but many people refuse to put an ounce of the same energy into the things that really matter in life. Because we are too busy just trying to survive the rat race, a rat race which was created by the very people who don't give a damn whether we live or whether we die. Survival of the fittest? That's only a slogan that people use who are too lazy or too scared or too selfish to care about someone else besides themselves.
The majority of the people of our World have become careless and fruitless and foolish and we will get what we have coming to us because of it.
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TruthBringer;1346868 wrote: I just wanna say that anyone who doesn't believe that Jesus lived is living a lie. Jesus did live. And Jesus did die. And anyone who denies that is endowed with the Spirit of the Anti-Christ.
Churches should pin this to their noticeboards. A better example of why belief should be avoided would be hard to find. Perhaps it could be headed "Belief lacks taste and beauty".
Churches should pin this to their noticeboards. A better example of why belief should be avoided would be hard to find. Perhaps it could be headed "Belief lacks taste and beauty".
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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spot;1346870 wrote: Churches should pin this to their noticeboards. A better example of why belief should be avoided would be hard to find. Perhaps it could be headed "Belief lacks taste and beauty".
Again, you are missing the point.
Again, you are missing the point.
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Why do you care?
If someone told you there is no proof that you exist would you write that many words to prove it or would you just laugh at them because you know that you exist and it's obvious?
There are billions of people in the world. We are much better at keeping records of existence now but in 2000 years very few people will be asking for proof of existence for these billions of people. Billions will live and die only meaning something to the people they came in direct contact with. Whether or not Christ existed is far less relevant than the fact that many people want proof of his existence so long after his death. That's a bit of a phenomenon.
Be satisfied.
If someone told you there is no proof that you exist would you write that many words to prove it or would you just laugh at them because you know that you exist and it's obvious?
There are billions of people in the world. We are much better at keeping records of existence now but in 2000 years very few people will be asking for proof of existence for these billions of people. Billions will live and die only meaning something to the people they came in direct contact with. Whether or not Christ existed is far less relevant than the fact that many people want proof of his existence so long after his death. That's a bit of a phenomenon.
Be satisfied.
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koan;1346872 wrote: Why do you care?
If someone told you there is no proof that you exist would you write that many words to prove it or would you just laugh at them because you know that you exist and it's obvious?
There are billions of people in the world. We are much better at keeping records of existence now but in 2000 years very few people will be asking for proof of existence for these billions of people. Billions will live and die only meaning something to the people they came in direct contact with. Whether or not Christ existed is far less relevant than the fact that many people want proof of his existence so long after his death. That's a bit of a phenomenon.
Be satisfied.
I care because to me Jesus's words mean everything. The fact that He walked the Earth means everything. I am one with Christ and Christ lives in me. I am one with God and therefore God lives in me. Christ said that when you accept Him into your heart He and God will make a Home inside of you. Nothing else will matter to you except for It. And that is true for me. It's true for anyone who believes in It.
I don't expect anyone else on this board to defend Christ in this thread which to me is entirely fishy. It seems like Atheists run this board seriously. We have people who talk about God all the time here but most of them don't affiliate themselves with Christ. So what God are they talking about then? If you are a Christian and you don't have the guts to defend Christ than how dare you call yourself that when you remain silent in the midst of all this nonsense.
Atheists run wild here with their beliefs but literally it seems like whenever anyone wants to talk about Jesus they are instantly attacked on this board from all sides. But whenever someone wants to mock Him and the religion that followed after Him all we get is people coming together like a tag team wrestling tournament here. It's disgusting.
I am proud to be a Christian. Is there a single Soul on this board who feels the same way?
If someone told you there is no proof that you exist would you write that many words to prove it or would you just laugh at them because you know that you exist and it's obvious?
There are billions of people in the world. We are much better at keeping records of existence now but in 2000 years very few people will be asking for proof of existence for these billions of people. Billions will live and die only meaning something to the people they came in direct contact with. Whether or not Christ existed is far less relevant than the fact that many people want proof of his existence so long after his death. That's a bit of a phenomenon.
Be satisfied.
I care because to me Jesus's words mean everything. The fact that He walked the Earth means everything. I am one with Christ and Christ lives in me. I am one with God and therefore God lives in me. Christ said that when you accept Him into your heart He and God will make a Home inside of you. Nothing else will matter to you except for It. And that is true for me. It's true for anyone who believes in It.
I don't expect anyone else on this board to defend Christ in this thread which to me is entirely fishy. It seems like Atheists run this board seriously. We have people who talk about God all the time here but most of them don't affiliate themselves with Christ. So what God are they talking about then? If you are a Christian and you don't have the guts to defend Christ than how dare you call yourself that when you remain silent in the midst of all this nonsense.
Atheists run wild here with their beliefs but literally it seems like whenever anyone wants to talk about Jesus they are instantly attacked on this board from all sides. But whenever someone wants to mock Him and the religion that followed after Him all we get is people coming together like a tag team wrestling tournament here. It's disgusting.
I am proud to be a Christian. Is there a single Soul on this board who feels the same way?
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TruthBringer;1346875 wrote: Atheists run wild here with their beliefs but literally it seems like whenever anyone wants to talk about Jesus they are instantly attacked on this board from all sides. But whenever someone wants to mock Him and the religion that followed after Him all we get is people coming together like a tag team wrestling tournament here. It's disgusting.
You are, I fear, merely a symptom of a very sick society. Quite what the cure will involve I'm not sure. Demilitarisation and effective mass education would be a good starting point.
You are, I fear, merely a symptom of a very sick society. Quite what the cure will involve I'm not sure. Demilitarisation and effective mass education would be a good starting point.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
A Message For All You Atheists
First, it is a discussion board. Second, ceasing the habit of copy/paste long-winded diatribe in the threads of others might benefit you (adding a comment and providing a link along with a short quote is fine). Third, proclaiming that others who do not agree with you are possessed by SATAN! won't win you many friends. Fourth, constantly trying to advance your agenda of scare tactics and paranoid world-view gets tiring. Fifth, claiming to be the victim of nonbelievers will garner no sympathy from most (you need to earn respect).
Most of you guys all sing the same tune and cry the same tears. If you don't want input and scrutiny from others, I suggest you do your thing on FB where all participants are your personal choice and can hit the "like" button whenever you post, and where you can easily delete the comments of dissenters.
The adage of: if you want respect, give respect applies. That said, don't expect to not be challenged here.
Most of you guys all sing the same tune and cry the same tears. If you don't want input and scrutiny from others, I suggest you do your thing on FB where all participants are your personal choice and can hit the "like" button whenever you post, and where you can easily delete the comments of dissenters.
The adage of: if you want respect, give respect applies. That said, don't expect to not be challenged here.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
A Message For All You Atheists
spot;1346876 wrote: You are, I fear, merely a symptom of a very sick society. Quite what the cure will involve I'm not sure. Demilitarisation and effective mass education would be a good starting point.
I'm not religious, but I do find that the folks who label themselves atheist on this board are no less the zealot than ones who label themselves christian.
Both sides feel justified because they think they are righteous and are simply trying to educate that other moron.
I think you folks all have deep rooted doubts about your own position. You aren't trying to sway the opposition so much as you are trying to convince yourself, IMO.
I'm not religious, but I do find that the folks who label themselves atheist on this board are no less the zealot than ones who label themselves christian.
Both sides feel justified because they think they are righteous and are simply trying to educate that other moron.
I think you folks all have deep rooted doubts about your own position. You aren't trying to sway the opposition so much as you are trying to convince yourself, IMO.
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
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flopstock;1346887 wrote: I'm not religious, but I do find that the folks who label themselves atheist on this board are no less the zealot than ones who label themselves christian.
Both sides feel justified because they think they are righteous and are simply trying to educate that other moron.
I think you folks all have deep rooted doubts about your own position. You aren't trying to sway the opposition so much as you are trying to convince yourself, IMO.
You quoted me, flopster? That was an odd choice. I'm a Christian. I'm not a zealot in any sense of the word. I'm extremely unrighteous. I would hate to convince myself of anything. Educating Truthbringer is not one of my ambitions, either.
What does that leave which you're labelling me with?
Both sides feel justified because they think they are righteous and are simply trying to educate that other moron.
I think you folks all have deep rooted doubts about your own position. You aren't trying to sway the opposition so much as you are trying to convince yourself, IMO.
You quoted me, flopster? That was an odd choice. I'm a Christian. I'm not a zealot in any sense of the word. I'm extremely unrighteous. I would hate to convince myself of anything. Educating Truthbringer is not one of my ambitions, either.
What does that leave which you're labelling me with?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
A Message For All You Atheists
TruthBringer;1346875 wrote: I am proud to be a Christian. Is there a single Soul on this board who feels the same way?
The atheists on this forum do a better job of representing Christian values than you do.
The atheists on this forum do a better job of representing Christian values than you do.
A Message For All You Atheists
flopstock;1346887 wrote: I'm not religious, but I do find that the folks who label themselves atheist on this board are no less the zealot than ones who label themselves christian.
Both sides feel justified because they think they are righteous and are simply trying to educate that other moron.
I think you folks all have deep rooted doubts about your own position. You aren't trying to sway the opposition so much as you are trying to convince yourself, IMO.That's what they all say, the hardcore believers on this board.
I don't call myself an atheist, but I guess others might say I possess atheistic views. I'm okay with that though.
Not even getting into the long history of religion, It is in the name of religion (or God, Jesus, Mohamed or what have you) that gay people are denied equal rights (as were blacks), that children have been sexually abused, that uncivilized discourse takes place, that people believe they have the right to shoot doctors, that adulterers or blasphemers are stoned to death, that nations have gone to war, that people are ostracized, that political representatives deny global warming, that Sarah Palin is actually seriously considered as a Presidential candidate and that George W Bush was elected president. It's due to religious conviction that Ronald Reagan, through the advice of then advisor (now Supreme Court Justice) John Roberts, chose to do nothing to fight the AIDS epidemic back in the early 80's because he/they believed the disease was a curse sent by God on the gay community.
If I didn't have enough backbone and conviction to stand up to the sort of injustices mentioned above done in the name of religion and God, what good is knowledge? Why educate children if we prefer they remain silent as adults? I'm not trying to educate religious people, rather, I simply stand against any senseless views they put forward, and I'm happy to do so.
I have plenty of respect for many people who apply religious labels to themselves, too. I have a son-in-law who is catholic, some on this forum share very reasonable religious views. But the ones who swoop in here and pontificate - they're fair game and I personally do not apologize for or regret one syllable of what I've intended toward them.
Both sides feel justified because they think they are righteous and are simply trying to educate that other moron.
I think you folks all have deep rooted doubts about your own position. You aren't trying to sway the opposition so much as you are trying to convince yourself, IMO.That's what they all say, the hardcore believers on this board.
I don't call myself an atheist, but I guess others might say I possess atheistic views. I'm okay with that though.
Not even getting into the long history of religion, It is in the name of religion (or God, Jesus, Mohamed or what have you) that gay people are denied equal rights (as were blacks), that children have been sexually abused, that uncivilized discourse takes place, that people believe they have the right to shoot doctors, that adulterers or blasphemers are stoned to death, that nations have gone to war, that people are ostracized, that political representatives deny global warming, that Sarah Palin is actually seriously considered as a Presidential candidate and that George W Bush was elected president. It's due to religious conviction that Ronald Reagan, through the advice of then advisor (now Supreme Court Justice) John Roberts, chose to do nothing to fight the AIDS epidemic back in the early 80's because he/they believed the disease was a curse sent by God on the gay community.
If I didn't have enough backbone and conviction to stand up to the sort of injustices mentioned above done in the name of religion and God, what good is knowledge? Why educate children if we prefer they remain silent as adults? I'm not trying to educate religious people, rather, I simply stand against any senseless views they put forward, and I'm happy to do so.
I have plenty of respect for many people who apply religious labels to themselves, too. I have a son-in-law who is catholic, some on this forum share very reasonable religious views. But the ones who swoop in here and pontificate - they're fair game and I personally do not apologize for or regret one syllable of what I've intended toward them.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
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TruthBringer
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spot;1346876 wrote: You are, I fear, merely a symptom of a very sick society. Quite what the cure will involve I'm not sure. Demilitarisation and effective mass education would be a good starting point.
I've been through my arguements over the years with you Spot. I already know your position and have decided that it doesn't compate to mine at all. And never will. You and I will never see things the same. That's just the way it is. But you're just as strange if not more so than I am. lol. Your quote there is hilarious.
I've been through my arguements over the years with you Spot. I already know your position and have decided that it doesn't compate to mine at all. And never will. You and I will never see things the same. That's just the way it is. But you're just as strange if not more so than I am. lol. Your quote there is hilarious.
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yaaarrrgg;1346901 wrote: The atheists on this forum do a better job of representing Christian values than you do.
That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Unless of course they were doing that on purpose. In the case of many occultists.
That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Unless of course they were doing that on purpose. In the case of many occultists.
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TruthBringer;1346868 wrote: I just wanna say that anyone who doesn't believe that Jesus lived is living a lie. Jesus did live. And Jesus did die. And anyone who denies that is endowed with the Spirit of the Anti-Christ. etc.etc
Another fine example of why Atheists and non believers alike, detest Christians.
They do not, and quite rightly so, wish examples like that forced upon them TruthBringer.
You will never attract people to your cause in that manner, and anyone who doesn't believe that is living a lie, and that is the truth.
binbag, full time Christian, fed up being included in the view that all Christian's arrogantly and forcibly push their beliefs upon people.
Another fine example of why Atheists and non believers alike, detest Christians.
They do not, and quite rightly so, wish examples like that forced upon them TruthBringer.
You will never attract people to your cause in that manner, and anyone who doesn't believe that is living a lie, and that is the truth.
binbag, full time Christian, fed up being included in the view that all Christian's arrogantly and forcibly push their beliefs upon people.
[FONT=Arial]Just above the clouds
the sun is always shining.
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the sun is always shining.
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binbag;1346928 wrote: Another fine example of why Atheists and non believers alike, detest Christians.
They do not, and quite rightly so, wish examples like that forced upon them TruthBringer.
You will never attract people to your cause in that manner, and anyone who doesn't believe that is living a lie, and that is the truth.
binbag, full time Christian, fed up being included in the view that all Christian's arrogantly and forcibly push their beliefs upon people.
I feel like we're going in circles here. And I just had an extreme case of Dejavu. So what I'm going to do is try something entirely different here. Because I think it is a useful exercise.
Ok, so....if each of you would write a quick summary on how you view the origins of Life and what Life means to you. I know it seems like homework, but I really do think that this is a technique that will help me better understand where each of you is coming from. And not just me, but others as well.
So if you could cover these 5 bullet points in your summaries.
1. How do you feel about religion in general? All religion.
2. How do view Life? What do you believe is the purpose of Life? Or do you believe there is a purpose at all?
3. What do you believe is the origin of Life? Where did Life come from? How did it come into existence?
4. How do you feel about the concept of God? Do you believe that the concept of God is an important concept or a concept which should have never been realized?
5. How do you feel about Good and Evil? Do you feel like such things exist? Or do you believe that there is only actions. And if so, do you believe in a counter-force to actions. Such as Karma? In other words, if someone does good, do you believe that there is a force which recognizes that and rewards for it? And, if you believe in Evil, do you believe that there is a force which recognizes it and punishes for it?
I have some more questions I would like to cover but I think this is a good starting point so that I can at least hopefully BEGIN to understand where some of you are coming from.
So if some of you would be willing to participate in this exercise I think it would be very productive.
They do not, and quite rightly so, wish examples like that forced upon them TruthBringer.
You will never attract people to your cause in that manner, and anyone who doesn't believe that is living a lie, and that is the truth.
binbag, full time Christian, fed up being included in the view that all Christian's arrogantly and forcibly push their beliefs upon people.
I feel like we're going in circles here. And I just had an extreme case of Dejavu. So what I'm going to do is try something entirely different here. Because I think it is a useful exercise.
Ok, so....if each of you would write a quick summary on how you view the origins of Life and what Life means to you. I know it seems like homework, but I really do think that this is a technique that will help me better understand where each of you is coming from. And not just me, but others as well.
So if you could cover these 5 bullet points in your summaries.
1. How do you feel about religion in general? All religion.
2. How do view Life? What do you believe is the purpose of Life? Or do you believe there is a purpose at all?
3. What do you believe is the origin of Life? Where did Life come from? How did it come into existence?
4. How do you feel about the concept of God? Do you believe that the concept of God is an important concept or a concept which should have never been realized?
5. How do you feel about Good and Evil? Do you feel like such things exist? Or do you believe that there is only actions. And if so, do you believe in a counter-force to actions. Such as Karma? In other words, if someone does good, do you believe that there is a force which recognizes that and rewards for it? And, if you believe in Evil, do you believe that there is a force which recognizes it and punishes for it?
I have some more questions I would like to cover but I think this is a good starting point so that I can at least hopefully BEGIN to understand where some of you are coming from.
So if some of you would be willing to participate in this exercise I think it would be very productive.
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TruthBringer;1346927 wrote: That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Unless of course they were doing that on purpose. In the case of many occultists.
You look at a religion as a set of beliefs, and totally ignore all the values that Jesus promoted. For example, not judging people, turning the other cheek, focusing on social needs. This thread however is a good example of judgmental bigotry and pettiness, and makes a mockery of so called "Christian" values.
I'm sorry if I'm too honest, but as a Christian you've completely missed the point of the religion, as 99% of your energy is spent on conspiracies and paranoid delusions about the occult.
You look at a religion as a set of beliefs, and totally ignore all the values that Jesus promoted. For example, not judging people, turning the other cheek, focusing on social needs. This thread however is a good example of judgmental bigotry and pettiness, and makes a mockery of so called "Christian" values.
I'm sorry if I'm too honest, but as a Christian you've completely missed the point of the religion, as 99% of your energy is spent on conspiracies and paranoid delusions about the occult.
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yaaarrrgg;1346944 wrote: You look at a religion as a set of beliefs, and totally ignore all the values that Jesus promoted. For example, not judging people, turning the other cheek, focusing on social needs. This thread however is a good example of judgmental bigotry and pettiness, and makes a mockery of so called "Christian" values.
I'm sorry if I'm too honest, but as a Christian you've completely missed the point of the religion, as 99% of your energy is spent on conspiracies and paranoid delusions about the occult.
lol. Don't try to fool me. You're as guilty as all of those things as I am. Turn to God, and repent for your rebellion. Repent inside yourself, and strive to do better. Use your mistakes as stepping stones. And "judge not, lest ye be judged."
I'm sorry if I'm too honest, but as a Christian you've completely missed the point of the religion, as 99% of your energy is spent on conspiracies and paranoid delusions about the occult.
lol. Don't try to fool me. You're as guilty as all of those things as I am. Turn to God, and repent for your rebellion. Repent inside yourself, and strive to do better. Use your mistakes as stepping stones. And "judge not, lest ye be judged."
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A Message For All You Atheists
TruthBringer;1346945 wrote: And "judge not, lest ye be judged."
I was thinking of that as verse well, reading your negative judgement of atheists. You judge everything and anyone, assuming hidden motives behind everything. It's a Christian value that's not a bad idea in itself, but completely ignored by most so-called Christians.
I was thinking of that as verse well, reading your negative judgement of atheists. You judge everything and anyone, assuming hidden motives behind everything. It's a Christian value that's not a bad idea in itself, but completely ignored by most so-called Christians.
A Message For All You Atheists
TruthBringer;1346933 wrote:
So if you could cover these 5 bullet points in your summaries.
1. How do you feel about religion in general? All religion.
2. How do view Life? What do you believe is the purpose of Life? Or do you believe there is a purpose at all?
3. What do you believe is the origin of Life? Where did Life come from? How did it come into existence?
4. How do you feel about the concept of God? Do you believe that the concept of God is an important concept or a concept which should have never been realized?
5. How do you feel about Good and Evil? Do you feel like such things exist? Or do you believe that there is only actions. And if so, do you believe in a counter-force to actions. Such as Karma? In other words, if someone does good, do you believe that there is a force which recognizes that and rewards for it? And, if you believe in Evil, do you believe that there is a force which recognizes it and punishes for it?
I think it would be prudent to answer your own 5 bullet points first TruthBringer, thus allowing others to understand where you are coming from.
bb
So if you could cover these 5 bullet points in your summaries.
1. How do you feel about religion in general? All religion.
2. How do view Life? What do you believe is the purpose of Life? Or do you believe there is a purpose at all?
3. What do you believe is the origin of Life? Where did Life come from? How did it come into existence?
4. How do you feel about the concept of God? Do you believe that the concept of God is an important concept or a concept which should have never been realized?
5. How do you feel about Good and Evil? Do you feel like such things exist? Or do you believe that there is only actions. And if so, do you believe in a counter-force to actions. Such as Karma? In other words, if someone does good, do you believe that there is a force which recognizes that and rewards for it? And, if you believe in Evil, do you believe that there is a force which recognizes it and punishes for it?
I think it would be prudent to answer your own 5 bullet points first TruthBringer, thus allowing others to understand where you are coming from.
bb
[FONT=Arial]Just above the clouds
the sun is always shining.
[/FONT]
the sun is always shining.
[/FONT]
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TruthBringer
- Posts: 3567
- Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:39 pm
A Message For All You Atheists
Alright well my beliefs are nearly identical to the Gnostic Christian belief system. If you go to a search engine and type in Gnostic Christian you will come up with a good idea but I will cover the basics here.
The gnōsis referred to in the term is a form of mystic, revealed, esoteric knowledge through which the spiritual elements of humanity are reminded of their true origins within the superior Godhead, being thus permitted to escape materiality
This is identical to my beliefs because I do believe that it is materialism that binds all Humans to the Earth including other beings such as the Devil. For some the Earth is a training ground for their Soul, for others the Earth is a prison to which they cycle into over and over until they get it right. Locked into a karmic shackle from the Universe.
"The gnosis" to me is the same as the Truth. So replace that with Truth and I am in sync with it.
Consequently, within the sects of gnosticism only the pneumatics or psychics obtain gnōsis; the hylic or Somatics, though human, being incapable of perceiving the higher reality, are unlikely to attain the gnōsis deemed by gnostic movements as necessary for salvation.
I agree with this as well. One who is in touch with the Source (or what some Christian Gnostics referenced as the Godhead) will become in tune with their God Center or Sacred Heart as is termed in the Catholic religion. To be in tune with this Force is the only way to true Salvation, because it constantly guides your path towards reunification with the Source. To achieve it is neither an easy or hard process, but to me should be more properly termed an extremely thorough one.
Jesus of Nazareth is identified by some Gnostic sects as an embodiment of the supreme being who became incarnate to bring gnōsis to the earth.
I am 100% in sync with those Gnostics who feel that way.
Whereas Gnosticism has been considered by scholars to originate as a branch of Christianity, alternate theories have proposed traces of Gnostic systems existed some centuries before the Christian Era, thus predating the birth of Jesus.
I am in agreement with this as well. I also believe that Mary the Mother of Jesus was a member of a Gnostic sect prior to Jesus's birth. I also believe that Jesus was highly influenced by the Gnostics and that He was indeed trained at some of the Gnostic mystery schools prior to His gathering of His apostles, etc.
The introduction by emanation of further divine beings, which are nevertheless identifiable as aspects of the God from which they proceeded; the progressive emanations are often conceived metaphorically as a gradual and progressive distancing from the ultimate source, which brings about an instability in the fabric of the divine nature
I am 100% in sync with that as well and I do believe that the more materialistic a person becomes the farther away they get from the Source and the more bondage they find themselves entangled in. To which point they will find themselves if they continue down that path unable to leave the realm of the Earth until their Soul has progressed to the point where they are able to be released from it.
The demiurge as a tyrannical God having caused the imperfect material world and all of its suffering
I am in full agreement with this as well. Replace the demiurge with Lucifer the fallen Angel and I am 100% on par with it. Lucifer is in charge of the material world and He causes those who worship Him to become slaves to it as He is.
is blind; because of his power and his ignorance and his arrogance he said, with his power, "It is I who am God; there is none apart from me." When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And this speech got up to incorruptibility; then there was a voice that came forth from incorruptibility, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" - which is, "god of the blind."
The demiurge typically creates a group of co-actors named 'Archons', who preside over the material realm and, in some cases, present obstacles to the soul seeking ascent from it
I find myself in agreement with this as well because it does appear that there have been many people at least in my Lifetime who's very purpose seemed to have been to try and drag me towards the material realm and away from what is most important.
This world is typically an inferior simulacrum of a higher-level reality or consciousness. The inferiority may be compared to the technical inferiority of a painting, sculpture, or other handicraft to the thing(s) of which those crafts are supposed to be a representation. In certain other cases it takes on a more ascetic tendency to view material existence, negatively. Which then becomes more extreme when materiality, and the human body, is perceived as evil and constrictive, a deliberate prison for its inhabitants;
I absolutely believe that to be stuck in the flesh on Earth is to be bound as a slave dependent on the Earth or the "corpse" as Jesus called it and this is why it is essential for a person to strive to become more Spiritual and less materialistic and therefore less solid and more ethereal to make the transition from the Earthly plane into the Spiritual planes more possible. This transition is nearly impossible for a person who has allowed their mind to be completely corrupted by the material World and is therefore under the Devils command for the rest of their current lifetime. There is a line that once crossed a person can rarely choose to come back from. A point of no return so to speak. Until they are recycled with another opportunity. The longer a person waits, the harder it can be to reverse their mistakes. This is indeed my belief.
The explanation of this state through the use of a complex mythological-cosmological drama in which a divine element 'falls' into the material realm and lodges itself within certain human beings; from here, it may be returned to the divine realm through a process of awakening (leading towards salvation). The salvation of the individual thus mirrors a concurrent restoration of the divine nature; a central Gnostic innovation was to elevate individual redemption to the level of a cosmically significant event
Amen. And good luck.
The gnōsis referred to in the term is a form of mystic, revealed, esoteric knowledge through which the spiritual elements of humanity are reminded of their true origins within the superior Godhead, being thus permitted to escape materiality
This is identical to my beliefs because I do believe that it is materialism that binds all Humans to the Earth including other beings such as the Devil. For some the Earth is a training ground for their Soul, for others the Earth is a prison to which they cycle into over and over until they get it right. Locked into a karmic shackle from the Universe.
"The gnosis" to me is the same as the Truth. So replace that with Truth and I am in sync with it.
Consequently, within the sects of gnosticism only the pneumatics or psychics obtain gnōsis; the hylic or Somatics, though human, being incapable of perceiving the higher reality, are unlikely to attain the gnōsis deemed by gnostic movements as necessary for salvation.
I agree with this as well. One who is in touch with the Source (or what some Christian Gnostics referenced as the Godhead) will become in tune with their God Center or Sacred Heart as is termed in the Catholic religion. To be in tune with this Force is the only way to true Salvation, because it constantly guides your path towards reunification with the Source. To achieve it is neither an easy or hard process, but to me should be more properly termed an extremely thorough one.
Jesus of Nazareth is identified by some Gnostic sects as an embodiment of the supreme being who became incarnate to bring gnōsis to the earth.
I am 100% in sync with those Gnostics who feel that way.
Whereas Gnosticism has been considered by scholars to originate as a branch of Christianity, alternate theories have proposed traces of Gnostic systems existed some centuries before the Christian Era, thus predating the birth of Jesus.
I am in agreement with this as well. I also believe that Mary the Mother of Jesus was a member of a Gnostic sect prior to Jesus's birth. I also believe that Jesus was highly influenced by the Gnostics and that He was indeed trained at some of the Gnostic mystery schools prior to His gathering of His apostles, etc.
The introduction by emanation of further divine beings, which are nevertheless identifiable as aspects of the God from which they proceeded; the progressive emanations are often conceived metaphorically as a gradual and progressive distancing from the ultimate source, which brings about an instability in the fabric of the divine nature
I am 100% in sync with that as well and I do believe that the more materialistic a person becomes the farther away they get from the Source and the more bondage they find themselves entangled in. To which point they will find themselves if they continue down that path unable to leave the realm of the Earth until their Soul has progressed to the point where they are able to be released from it.
The demiurge as a tyrannical God having caused the imperfect material world and all of its suffering
I am in full agreement with this as well. Replace the demiurge with Lucifer the fallen Angel and I am 100% on par with it. Lucifer is in charge of the material world and He causes those who worship Him to become slaves to it as He is.
is blind; because of his power and his ignorance and his arrogance he said, with his power, "It is I who am God; there is none apart from me." When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And this speech got up to incorruptibility; then there was a voice that came forth from incorruptibility, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" - which is, "god of the blind."
The demiurge typically creates a group of co-actors named 'Archons', who preside over the material realm and, in some cases, present obstacles to the soul seeking ascent from it
I find myself in agreement with this as well because it does appear that there have been many people at least in my Lifetime who's very purpose seemed to have been to try and drag me towards the material realm and away from what is most important.
This world is typically an inferior simulacrum of a higher-level reality or consciousness. The inferiority may be compared to the technical inferiority of a painting, sculpture, or other handicraft to the thing(s) of which those crafts are supposed to be a representation. In certain other cases it takes on a more ascetic tendency to view material existence, negatively. Which then becomes more extreme when materiality, and the human body, is perceived as evil and constrictive, a deliberate prison for its inhabitants;
I absolutely believe that to be stuck in the flesh on Earth is to be bound as a slave dependent on the Earth or the "corpse" as Jesus called it and this is why it is essential for a person to strive to become more Spiritual and less materialistic and therefore less solid and more ethereal to make the transition from the Earthly plane into the Spiritual planes more possible. This transition is nearly impossible for a person who has allowed their mind to be completely corrupted by the material World and is therefore under the Devils command for the rest of their current lifetime. There is a line that once crossed a person can rarely choose to come back from. A point of no return so to speak. Until they are recycled with another opportunity. The longer a person waits, the harder it can be to reverse their mistakes. This is indeed my belief.
The explanation of this state through the use of a complex mythological-cosmological drama in which a divine element 'falls' into the material realm and lodges itself within certain human beings; from here, it may be returned to the divine realm through a process of awakening (leading towards salvation). The salvation of the individual thus mirrors a concurrent restoration of the divine nature; a central Gnostic innovation was to elevate individual redemption to the level of a cosmically significant event
Amen. And good luck.
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TruthBringer
- Posts: 3567
- Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:39 pm
A Message For All You Atheists
I would also like to warn those who are thinking to themselves, "hmmm....being stuck on the Earth doesn't sound so bad" to rethink that argument for themselves very hard because that thought holds no water when you consider what type of environment you could be born into at any given time. The few periods of prosperity that certain cultures of the Earth have been able to experience are nothing compared to the extremely harsh periods of famine, struggle, war, starvation, and terrifying experiences that has been the case throughout history. The Earth can change for the worst at any given time and once you are cycled into it you are constantly a part of that experience whether you like it or not until as I mentioned before you are somehow able to escape the chains of Death and Rebirth as is symbolized by the winding snake eating it's own tail that is so popular amongst the occultists of today. Materialism and bondage is a form of Hell all it's own. So really think hard before you consider the ramifications of such a scenario.
If you live in the Western societies at the moment, you may be thinking to yourself how good you have had it in the past. If you live in the most downtrodden corrupt and oppressive areas of the World you would be thinking the complete opposite. There are many areas of the Earth for a Soul to incarnate into. Be careful what you wish for because that is something you have absolutely no control over.
If you live in the Western societies at the moment, you may be thinking to yourself how good you have had it in the past. If you live in the most downtrodden corrupt and oppressive areas of the World you would be thinking the complete opposite. There are many areas of the Earth for a Soul to incarnate into. Be careful what you wish for because that is something you have absolutely no control over.
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TruthBringer
- Posts: 3567
- Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:39 pm
A Message For All You Atheists
To demonstrate what I mean by being in touch with your God Center (which is what all people should strive for), let me provide the following example. I have never read this document I am about to provide until now. Yet if you look at all my Spiritual threads they will prove that my belief system is closest to the way of the Gnostic Christian. Literally all of my more Spiritual themed threads contain some form of what you are about to read. This is why I have said nothing else in the World comes as close for me as does the Gnostic Christian version of God.
(Taken from the Secret Book of John - the Apocryphon of John):
One day John, the brother of James , was going up to the Temple. A Pharisee by the name of Arimanios came up to him and challenged him, asking: "Where is the teacher you used to follow?"
John replied, "He has gone back to the place from which he came."
The Pharisee said, "That Nazarene misled you (plural), told you lies, closed your hearts and turned you away from your ancestral traditions.
When I heard these things, I, John, turned away from the temple and went off to a deserted mountainous place. I was very unhappy, saying to myself:
"How was the Savior designated?
Why did his Father send him into the world?
Who is his Father?
What kind of realm will we go to?
For, although he told us, ‘This realm is modeled on the imperishable realm,’
He didn't teach us about the latter.
All of a sudden, while I was contemplating these things,
Behold!
The heavens opened and the whole of creation shone with a light from above,
And the world quaked!
I was afraid, yet
Behold!
A little child appeared before me in the light.
I continued looking at him as he became an old man
And then he changed again, becoming like a young man.
I didn't understand what I was seeing,
But the one likeness had several forms in the light,
And these likenesses appeared each through the other
And the vision had three forms.
He said to me,
“John, why doubt?
Why be afraid?
Don’t you know this image?
Be not afraid.
I am with you (plural) always.
I am the Father
The Mother
The Son
I am the incorruptible
Purity.
I have come to teach you
About what is
And what was
And what will be
In order for you to understand
The invisible world
And the world that is visible
And the immovable race of perfect humanity.
Raise your head;
Understand my lessons;
Share them with any others who have received the spirit,
Who are from the immovable race of perfect humanity.
The Inexpressible One
The One rules all. Nothing has authority over it.
It is the God.
It is Father of everything,
Holy One
The invisible one over everything.
It is uncontaminated
Pure light no eye can bear to look within.
The One is the Invisible Spirit.
It is not right to think of it as a God or as like God.
It is more than just God.
Nothing is above it.
Nothing rules it.
Since everything exists within it
It does not exist within anything.
Since it is not dependent on anything
It is eternal.
It is absolutely complete and so needs nothing.
It is utterly perfect
Light.
The One is without boundaries
Nothing exists outside of it to border it
The One cannot be investigated
Nothing exists apart from it to investigate it
The One cannot be measured
Nothing exists external to it to measure it
The One cannot be seen
For no one can envision it
The One is eternal
For it exists forever
The One is inconceivable
For no one can comprehend it
The One is indescribable
For no one can put any words to it.
The One is infinite light
Purity
Holiness
Stainless,
The One is incomprehensible
Perfectly free from corruption.
Not “perfect
Not “blessed
Not “divine
But superior to such concepts.
Neither physical nor unphysical
Neither immense nor infinitesimal
It is impossible to specify in quantity or quality
For it is beyond knowledge.
The One is not a being among other beings
It is vastly superior
But it is not “superior.
It is outside of realms of being and time
For whatever is within realms of being was created
And whatever is within time had time allotted to it
The One receives nothing from anything.
It simply apprehends itself in its own perfect light
The One is majestic.
The One is measureless majesty
Chief of all Realms
Producing all realms
Light
Producing light
Life
Producing life
Blessedness
Producing blessedness
Knowledge
Producing knowledge
Good
Producing goodness
Mercy
Producing mercy
Generous
Producing generosity
[It does not “possess these things.]
It gives forth light beyond measure, beyond comprehension.
[What can I say?]
His realm is eternal, peaceful, silent, resting, before everything.
He is the head of every realm sustaining each of them through goodness.
---------------------------------------
That gives me goosebumps just reading it. The God Center speaks to you if you will choose to listen to it. All people have a God Center. Some have completely blocked it off through density.
The only thing I had appeared to have distorted (through my own misinterpretation of the messages coming from the Sacred Heart) is that I would always say on this board that God exists within everything and everything exists within God. This document that I just read has corrected that for me by providing the answer that Indeed everything does exist within God so therefore God does not need to exist within everything. Thereby solving the problem for me of Evil and why God would ever be a part of it. He wouldn't. So now I have gained some more ground thanks to this. I am constantly striving to become more in tune every day though so I admit where I was wrong.
The Secret Book of John (Apocryphon of John)
(Taken from the Secret Book of John - the Apocryphon of John):
One day John, the brother of James , was going up to the Temple. A Pharisee by the name of Arimanios came up to him and challenged him, asking: "Where is the teacher you used to follow?"
John replied, "He has gone back to the place from which he came."
The Pharisee said, "That Nazarene misled you (plural), told you lies, closed your hearts and turned you away from your ancestral traditions.
When I heard these things, I, John, turned away from the temple and went off to a deserted mountainous place. I was very unhappy, saying to myself:
"How was the Savior designated?
Why did his Father send him into the world?
Who is his Father?
What kind of realm will we go to?
For, although he told us, ‘This realm is modeled on the imperishable realm,’
He didn't teach us about the latter.
All of a sudden, while I was contemplating these things,
Behold!
The heavens opened and the whole of creation shone with a light from above,
And the world quaked!
I was afraid, yet
Behold!
A little child appeared before me in the light.
I continued looking at him as he became an old man
And then he changed again, becoming like a young man.
I didn't understand what I was seeing,
But the one likeness had several forms in the light,
And these likenesses appeared each through the other
And the vision had three forms.
He said to me,
“John, why doubt?
Why be afraid?
Don’t you know this image?
Be not afraid.
I am with you (plural) always.
I am the Father
The Mother
The Son
I am the incorruptible
Purity.
I have come to teach you
About what is
And what was
And what will be
In order for you to understand
The invisible world
And the world that is visible
And the immovable race of perfect humanity.
Raise your head;
Understand my lessons;
Share them with any others who have received the spirit,
Who are from the immovable race of perfect humanity.
The Inexpressible One
The One rules all. Nothing has authority over it.
It is the God.
It is Father of everything,
Holy One
The invisible one over everything.
It is uncontaminated
Pure light no eye can bear to look within.
The One is the Invisible Spirit.
It is not right to think of it as a God or as like God.
It is more than just God.
Nothing is above it.
Nothing rules it.
Since everything exists within it
It does not exist within anything.
Since it is not dependent on anything
It is eternal.
It is absolutely complete and so needs nothing.
It is utterly perfect
Light.
The One is without boundaries
Nothing exists outside of it to border it
The One cannot be investigated
Nothing exists apart from it to investigate it
The One cannot be measured
Nothing exists external to it to measure it
The One cannot be seen
For no one can envision it
The One is eternal
For it exists forever
The One is inconceivable
For no one can comprehend it
The One is indescribable
For no one can put any words to it.
The One is infinite light
Purity
Holiness
Stainless,
The One is incomprehensible
Perfectly free from corruption.
Not “perfect
Not “blessed
Not “divine
But superior to such concepts.
Neither physical nor unphysical
Neither immense nor infinitesimal
It is impossible to specify in quantity or quality
For it is beyond knowledge.
The One is not a being among other beings
It is vastly superior
But it is not “superior.
It is outside of realms of being and time
For whatever is within realms of being was created
And whatever is within time had time allotted to it
The One receives nothing from anything.
It simply apprehends itself in its own perfect light
The One is majestic.
The One is measureless majesty
Chief of all Realms
Producing all realms
Light
Producing light
Life
Producing life
Blessedness
Producing blessedness
Knowledge
Producing knowledge
Good
Producing goodness
Mercy
Producing mercy
Generous
Producing generosity
[It does not “possess these things.]
It gives forth light beyond measure, beyond comprehension.
[What can I say?]
His realm is eternal, peaceful, silent, resting, before everything.
He is the head of every realm sustaining each of them through goodness.
---------------------------------------
That gives me goosebumps just reading it. The God Center speaks to you if you will choose to listen to it. All people have a God Center. Some have completely blocked it off through density.
The only thing I had appeared to have distorted (through my own misinterpretation of the messages coming from the Sacred Heart) is that I would always say on this board that God exists within everything and everything exists within God. This document that I just read has corrected that for me by providing the answer that Indeed everything does exist within God so therefore God does not need to exist within everything. Thereby solving the problem for me of Evil and why God would ever be a part of it. He wouldn't. So now I have gained some more ground thanks to this. I am constantly striving to become more in tune every day though so I admit where I was wrong.
The Secret Book of John (Apocryphon of John)
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-
TruthBringer
- Posts: 3567
- Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:39 pm
A Message For All You Atheists
Whoa. This document is absolutely amazing! Why didn't I find this before? Perhaps I was not ready for it yet. I knew it was there and had heard of it but I couldn't bring myself to ever read it for some reason. But I mean it explains everything perfectly for me. Not only that but ladies, good luck trying to find a passage in the Bible that gives you the same credit this document does. The Bible doesn't even include women in the trinity. And still not only that but it is the only document I have ever been able to find that completely explains the Birth of the Female Spirit/Feminine Energy as well as the Spirit of the Son/The Christ Energy as well as even the Angels and everything else literally in existence! Absolutely incredible!
(Also taken from the Secret Book of John - the Apocryphon of John)
The Origin of Reality
[We would know nothing of the ineffable
And nothing of the immeasurable
Without the help of the one who comes forth
from the One who is the Father.
He alone has informed us.]
The Father is surrounded by light.
He apprehends himself in that light
[which is the pure spring of the water of life
that sustains all realms].
He is conscious of his image everywhere around him,
Perceiving his image in this spring of Spirit
Pouring forth from himself.
He is enamored of the image he sees in the light-water,
The spring of pure light-water enveloping him.
His self-aware thought (ennoia) came into being.
Appearing to him in the effulgence of his light.
She stood before him.
This, then, is the first of the powers, prior to everything.
Arising out of the mind of the Father
The Providence (pronoia) of everything.
Her light reflects His light.
She is from His image in His light
Perfect in power
Image of the invisible perfect Virgin Spirit.
She is the initial power
glory of Barbelo
glorious among the realms
glory of revelation
She gave glory to the Virgin Spirit
She praised Him
For she arose from Him.
She is the universal womb
She is before everything
She is:
Mother-Father
First Man
Holy Spirit
Thrice Male
Thrice Powerful
Thrice Named
Androgynous eternal realm
First to arise among the invisible realms.
She, Barbelo, asked the virgin Spirit for foreknowledge (prognosis).
The Spirit agreed.
Foreknowledge came forth and stood by Providence
Foreknowledge gave glory to the Spirit
And to Barbelo, the Spirit’s perfect power,
For She was the reason that it had come into being.
(Also taken from the Secret Book of John - the Apocryphon of John)
The Origin of Reality
[We would know nothing of the ineffable
And nothing of the immeasurable
Without the help of the one who comes forth
from the One who is the Father.
He alone has informed us.]
The Father is surrounded by light.
He apprehends himself in that light
[which is the pure spring of the water of life
that sustains all realms].
He is conscious of his image everywhere around him,
Perceiving his image in this spring of Spirit
Pouring forth from himself.
He is enamored of the image he sees in the light-water,
The spring of pure light-water enveloping him.
His self-aware thought (ennoia) came into being.
Appearing to him in the effulgence of his light.
She stood before him.
This, then, is the first of the powers, prior to everything.
Arising out of the mind of the Father
The Providence (pronoia) of everything.
Her light reflects His light.
She is from His image in His light
Perfect in power
Image of the invisible perfect Virgin Spirit.
She is the initial power
glory of Barbelo
glorious among the realms
glory of revelation
She gave glory to the Virgin Spirit
She praised Him
For she arose from Him.
She is the universal womb
She is before everything
She is:
Mother-Father
First Man
Holy Spirit
Thrice Male
Thrice Powerful
Thrice Named
Androgynous eternal realm
First to arise among the invisible realms.
She, Barbelo, asked the virgin Spirit for foreknowledge (prognosis).
The Spirit agreed.
Foreknowledge came forth and stood by Providence
Foreknowledge gave glory to the Spirit
And to Barbelo, the Spirit’s perfect power,
For She was the reason that it had come into being.
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TruthBringer
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A Message For All You Atheists
Primary Structures of the Divine Mind
She, Barbelo, asked the virgin Spirit for Incorruptibility
The Spirit agreed.
Incorruptibility came forth and stood by Thought and Foreknowledge.
Incorruptibility gave glory to the Invisible Virgin Spirit
And to Barbelo,
For She was the reason that it had come into being.
She asked for everlasting Life.
The Spirit agreed
Everlasting life came forth and they all stood together.
They gave glory to the invisible Spirit
And to Barbelo,
For She was the reason that it had come into being.
She asked for Truth.
The Spirit agreed
Truth came forth and they all stood together.
They gave glory to the invisible Spirit
And to Barbelo,
For She was the reason that it had come into being.
This is the fivefold realm of the Father:
The First Man who is
The Image of the Invisible Spirit who is
Providence who is
Barbelo who is
Thought.
And
Foreknowledge - Incorruptibility - Life Everlasting - Truth
She, Barbelo, asked the virgin Spirit for Incorruptibility
The Spirit agreed.
Incorruptibility came forth and stood by Thought and Foreknowledge.
Incorruptibility gave glory to the Invisible Virgin Spirit
And to Barbelo,
For She was the reason that it had come into being.
She asked for everlasting Life.
The Spirit agreed
Everlasting life came forth and they all stood together.
They gave glory to the invisible Spirit
And to Barbelo,
For She was the reason that it had come into being.
She asked for Truth.
The Spirit agreed
Truth came forth and they all stood together.
They gave glory to the invisible Spirit
And to Barbelo,
For She was the reason that it had come into being.
This is the fivefold realm of the Father:
The First Man who is
The Image of the Invisible Spirit who is
Providence who is
Barbelo who is
Thought.
And
Foreknowledge - Incorruptibility - Life Everlasting - Truth
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TruthBringer
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A Message For All You Atheists
Secondary Structures of the Divine Mind
The Father looked into Barbelo
[into the pure light surrounding the Invisible Spirit]
Barbelo conceived and bore a spark of light
Who had blessedness similar to, but not equal to, her blessedness,
Who was the only child of that mother–father
The only offspring,
The only begotten child of the pure light, the Father.
The Invisible Virgin Spirit celebrated the light that had been produced
Coming forth from the first power who is
The Providence
Barbelo
The Spirit anointed him with Goodness, making him perfect
[he lacked no goodness whatsoever,
for he was anointed with the Invisible Spirit’s Goodness]
He stood in the Spirit’s presence and it was poured upon him.
Having received this anointing from the Spirit he immediately glorified Him
And he glorified the perfect Providence.
Because of Her he had come into being.
He asked for Mind (nous) to be a companion to him.
The Spirit consented
When the Invisible Spirit consented
Mind came into being.
It stood by the Anointed
and glorified the Spirit and Barbelo
He wished to act through the Word of the Invisible Spirit.
Whose Will became an action and appeared with Mind
Glorifying the Light.
And then Word followed Will into being.
[The Christ, the divine autogenes,
created everything through the Word.]
Everlasting Life and Will,
Mind, and Foreknowledge
Stood together.
They glorified the Invisible Spirit and Barbelo.
Because of Her they had come into being.
The Father looked into Barbelo
[into the pure light surrounding the Invisible Spirit]
Barbelo conceived and bore a spark of light
Who had blessedness similar to, but not equal to, her blessedness,
Who was the only child of that mother–father
The only offspring,
The only begotten child of the pure light, the Father.
The Invisible Virgin Spirit celebrated the light that had been produced
Coming forth from the first power who is
The Providence
Barbelo
The Spirit anointed him with Goodness, making him perfect
[he lacked no goodness whatsoever,
for he was anointed with the Invisible Spirit’s Goodness]
He stood in the Spirit’s presence and it was poured upon him.
Having received this anointing from the Spirit he immediately glorified Him
And he glorified the perfect Providence.
Because of Her he had come into being.
He asked for Mind (nous) to be a companion to him.
The Spirit consented
When the Invisible Spirit consented
Mind came into being.
It stood by the Anointed
and glorified the Spirit and Barbelo
He wished to act through the Word of the Invisible Spirit.
Whose Will became an action and appeared with Mind
Glorifying the Light.
And then Word followed Will into being.
[The Christ, the divine autogenes,
created everything through the Word.]
Everlasting Life and Will,
Mind, and Foreknowledge
Stood together.
They glorified the Invisible Spirit and Barbelo.
Because of Her they had come into being.
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TruthBringer
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A Message For All You Atheists
Tertiary Structures of the Divine Mind
The Holy Spirit
Brought his and Barbelo’s divine autogenes Son to completion
In order that he could stand before the great Invisible Virgin Spirit
As the divine autogenes Christ
And honor Him with a mighty voice.
.
The Invisible Spirit
Placed the divine autogenes over everything.
All authorities were subordinated to him.
The truth within him let him learn everything
[He is called by the highest name of all.
That name will be told only to those who are worthy to hear it
From the light, [which is the Christ,]
From the incorruptibility,
Through a gift of the spirit
The Four Lights arising from the divine autogenes stood before him.
Grace exists within the realm of the Light called Harmozel, the first angel.
Along with Harmozel are
Grace
Truth
Form
The second Light is called Oriel and it stands over the second realm.
With Oriel are:
Conceptualization (Epinoia)
Perception
Memory
The third Light is called Daveithai and it stands over the third realm.
With Daveithai are:
Understanding
Love
Idea
The fourth Light is called Eleleth and it stands over the fourth realm.
With Eleleth are:
Perfection
Peace
Wisdom (Sophia).
These are the four lights standing before the divine autogenes.
Twelve realms stand before the Son of the Powerful
The autogenes
The Christ
Through the intention
And the grace
Of the Invisible Spirit
Twelve realms belong to the Son of the autogenes.
[All of this came into being through the intention of the Holy Spirit
Through the autogenes.]
From the perfect mind’s foreknowledge
Through the intention of the Invisible Spirit
And the autogenes’s will.
The perfect human appeared,
Its first true manifestation
The Virgin Spirit named the human Adamas
And placed him over the first realm with the mighty autogenes Christ
With the first Light Harmozel and its powers.
The Invisible One gave Adamas invincible power of mind.
Adamas spoke, glorifying and praising the Invisible Spirit:
“Everything has come into being from you
Everything will return to you.
I will praise you and glorify you
And the Autogenes
And the triple realm:
Father – Mother – Son,
the perfect power.”
Over the second realm was appointed Adamas’s son Seth
With the second Light Oriel.
In the third realm were placed the children of Seth
With the third Light Daveithai.
In the fourth realm were placed the souls of those ignorant of the fullness
Those who did not repent at once
But who, after some time, eventually repented,
They are with the fourth Light Eleleth.
All of these created beings glorify the Invisible Spirit
The Holy Spirit
Brought his and Barbelo’s divine autogenes Son to completion
In order that he could stand before the great Invisible Virgin Spirit
As the divine autogenes Christ
And honor Him with a mighty voice.
.
The Invisible Spirit
Placed the divine autogenes over everything.
All authorities were subordinated to him.
The truth within him let him learn everything
[He is called by the highest name of all.
That name will be told only to those who are worthy to hear it
From the light, [which is the Christ,]
From the incorruptibility,
Through a gift of the spirit
The Four Lights arising from the divine autogenes stood before him.
Grace exists within the realm of the Light called Harmozel, the first angel.
Along with Harmozel are
Grace
Truth
Form
The second Light is called Oriel and it stands over the second realm.
With Oriel are:
Conceptualization (Epinoia)
Perception
Memory
The third Light is called Daveithai and it stands over the third realm.
With Daveithai are:
Understanding
Love
Idea
The fourth Light is called Eleleth and it stands over the fourth realm.
With Eleleth are:
Perfection
Peace
Wisdom (Sophia).
These are the four lights standing before the divine autogenes.
Twelve realms stand before the Son of the Powerful
The autogenes
The Christ
Through the intention
And the grace
Of the Invisible Spirit
Twelve realms belong to the Son of the autogenes.
[All of this came into being through the intention of the Holy Spirit
Through the autogenes.]
From the perfect mind’s foreknowledge
Through the intention of the Invisible Spirit
And the autogenes’s will.
The perfect human appeared,
Its first true manifestation
The Virgin Spirit named the human Adamas
And placed him over the first realm with the mighty autogenes Christ
With the first Light Harmozel and its powers.
The Invisible One gave Adamas invincible power of mind.
Adamas spoke, glorifying and praising the Invisible Spirit:
“Everything has come into being from you
Everything will return to you.
I will praise you and glorify you
And the Autogenes
And the triple realm:
Father – Mother – Son,
the perfect power.”
Over the second realm was appointed Adamas’s son Seth
With the second Light Oriel.
In the third realm were placed the children of Seth
With the third Light Daveithai.
In the fourth realm were placed the souls of those ignorant of the fullness
Those who did not repent at once
But who, after some time, eventually repented,
They are with the fourth Light Eleleth.
All of these created beings glorify the Invisible Spirit
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TruthBringer
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A Message For All You Atheists
Man I gotta say this document here is way more thorough than anything related to the Bible because the Bible doesn't even touch upon these things and even goes so far as to demote the female status saying that all females originated from man in Human form as Adam. That's always sounded ridiculous to me because it never made sense to have only male energy in Spirit form originally and then only female energy in Human form originally. I knew that the female energy therefore must have come from Spirit form as well.
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TruthBringer
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A Message For All You Atheists
This is actually a beautiful description because it is basically saying in this document that the origin or the Source could not truly see Itself or become aware of Itself without looking through the eyes of the Female Energy. Or by looking at the Female counterpart. Only then according to this document could the Father become self-aware. I mean if that's not the coolest romance story I don't know what is. And then of course the Son or Christ was born from a spark of Life from the Mother.
The 5 trees! The Holy Spirit, the Father, the Mother, the Son, and the Daughter! I knew it! They are the 5 trees in Heaven who never die! How cool is that?
The 5 trees! The Holy Spirit, the Father, the Mother, the Son, and the Daughter! I knew it! They are the 5 trees in Heaven who never die! How cool is that?
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TruthBringer
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A Message For All You Atheists
Also it does seem to coincide with the Bible's original sin because it does state that a female form that resided over the realm of Wisdom (not the Mother but a different female form) did indeed create the first sin by creating something outside of the Holy Spirit. And it appears that this event helped lead to the World we now live on. And also to the lion headed serpent which the Gnostic Christians called the demiurge (a version of Lucifer the devil which the Bible declares a roaring lion that walketh about). Very interesting indeed.
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