If Jesus died for our sins...

Loyal · Post by **Loyal** » Sun May 15, 2011 1:54 pm

I don't know why this popped up on my email, I have signed off this conversation. I don't mind to converse on religion, however, sometimes I like to be the one THAT KNOWS IT ALL. (not really) I think you all have worn the (if Jesus died for our sins) topic out.

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Sun May 15, 2011 1:58 pm

Loyal;1359632 wrote: I don't know why this popped up on my email, I have signed off this conversation. I don't mind to converse on religion, however, sometimes I like to be the one THAT KNOWS IT ALL. (not really) I think you all have worn the (if Jesus died for our sins) topic out.
I agree, but there are the usual traditional worn out off-topic assaults on Christianity to deal with. A pity you were disturbed.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun May 15, 2011 2:41 pm

xyz;1359633 wrote: I agree, but there are the usual traditional worn out off-topic assaults on Christianity to deal with. A pity you were disturbed.

If you respond to the points made, it is known as a conversation on a topic - a discussion if you like.

If you see everything as an assault on your brand of Christianity and go into disrupt mode then the topic is disturbed and ends up being pointless.

Is that what you do it for? To prevent discussions you don't like the turn of? Do you see the end of such topics as you "winning" because they stop?

Sad, very sad.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon May 16, 2011 3:24 am

xyz;1359633 wrote: I agree, but there are the usual traditional worn out off-topic assaults on Christianity to deal with. A pity you were disturbed.

You have never made any claim to be a christian and when directly asked have refused to answer. I suggest you might want to make clear which particular sect, protestant or otherwise, you adhere to. Also which bible you favour would be interesting since the contents are so radically different from all the other ones. Unless of course you are not a christiain in which case you can safely come out of the closet. No one here knows who you are, no religious nuts will turn up to burn you for heresy

Don’t you believe in a God who intervenes in your life? That seems to me to be the real dividing line: do you believe in a personal God or not? Deitism and atheism are on the other side of belief in a personal God. I haven't really decided the ratio of atheism/deitism in my own thinking. 99% atheist I think. Most people when it comes right down to it and had actually thought the matter through would describe themselves as deists. Believing in fairy stories, the inerrancy of scripture, supernatural miracles or the trinity is just not possible if you have any kind of rational thought on the matter. Yopu have to be insane or incredibly ignorant to believe literally in the bible being the word of god.

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Mon May 16, 2011 3:37 am

gmc;1359654 wrote: which bible you favour would be interesting since the contents are so radically different from all the other ones

'pick whichever version you like. The basic story remains the same no matter which version' - gmc

Which is gmc's best guess?

no religious nuts will turn up to burn you for heresy
It's the non-religious who may do so, eh?

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Mon May 16, 2011 5:44 am

I hardly see what's been said in this thread that's any worse than what the Bible itself says about organized religion and it's followers. Look at what Jesus was ranting about half the time. Unfortunately the point of most of his ranting has been lost, not the least the cause of his execution. He didn't die for our sins, he was killed by organized religion.

tbone · Post by **tbone** » Sun May 22, 2011 9:55 am

I'd like to digress a bit and bring up an interesting point about the Adam and Eve story: why is it that all of us should be subject to the punishment of sin if it was Adam and Eve's fault to begin with? Why do we not have the option to prove ourselves in a Garden of sorts as they had the opportunity to?

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Sun May 22, 2011 10:29 am

tbone;1360012 wrote: I'd like to digress a bit and bring up an interesting point about the Adam and Eve story: why is it that all of us should be subject to the punishment of sin if it was Adam and Eve's fault to begin with? Why do we not have the option to prove ourselves in a Garden of sorts as they had the opportunity to?
From post #83:

The word 'adam' means not just the name of a man, an allegorical, representative man; but also means 'man', any man, as well as 'mankind'. It can legitimately and indeed must be taken as referring to each and every person, who is personally tempted, and falls. It is not that any of us are culpable for the sins of any other. That would be a most inequitable principle, surely. As we have been shown, each person is responsible, in the biblical view, for his or her own decisions, as has been the principle of every civilised legal system that ever existed.

So the dogma of original sin, even though many of influence, yet ill repute, wished it to be orthodoxy, is a deliberate, malicious distortion that is no part of Christianity, and is inimical to it, along with many other dogmas of the same people.

tbone · Post by **tbone** » Sun May 22, 2011 11:17 am

xyz;1360014 wrote: From post #83:

The word 'adam' means not just the name of a man, an allegorical, representative man; but also means 'man', any man, as well as 'mankind'. It can legitimately and indeed must be taken as referring to each and every person, who is personally tempted, and falls. It is not that any of us are culpable for the sins of any other. That would be a most inequitable principle, surely. As we have been shown, each person is responsible, in the biblical view, for his or her own decisions, as has been the principle of every civilised legal system that ever existed.

So the dogma of original sin, even though many of influence, yet ill repute, wished it to be orthodoxy, is a deliberate, malicious distortion that is no part of Christianity, and is inimical to it, along with many other dogmas of the same people.

So if, in your opinion, the creation story is merely an representation all of mankind and womankind where does it end? Was the Garden real or abstract representation? Was Cain real or representative? Was God real or representative? Your allegorical interpretation is intriguing and makes for an interesting reread, but where are the limits?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun May 22, 2011 11:33 am

tbone;1360015 wrote: So if, in your opinion, the creation story is merely an representation all of mankind and womankind where does it end? Was the Garden real or abstract representation? Was Cain real or representative? Was God real or representative? Your allegorical interpretation is intriguing and makes for an interesting reread, but where are the limits?Hi Tbone and welcome to FG.

tbone · Post by **tbone** » Sun May 22, 2011 11:39 am

Ahso!;1360019 wrote: Hi Tbone and welcome to FG.

Hey, thanks I'm glad to finally have intelligent and rational people to discuss with.

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Tue May 24, 2011 8:34 am

tbone;1360015 wrote: So if, in your opinion, the creation story is merely an representation all of mankind and womankind where does it end?
Merely? In what way is there is a diminution?