Some Really Freaky Weather

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:58 pm

Today it's in the mid 80's and absolutely a superb day weather wise. This time of the year in this part of California we generally sees temps in the high 90's to 103 F., with very low humidity. The Mid U.S. however has been breaking all records for it's heat and humidity. Heat indexes of 125 have been reported. I don't envy those without air conditioning.

It will be a great evening for a little Bocce Ball, wine & cheese.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:26 pm

I'm not sure what Bocce Ball is, but sounds like a great evening.

Would you say these days you are getting more of this freakish weather, less, or about the same amount, compared to say, twenty or thirty years ago?

Post by **spot** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:40 pm

I say we scrap this new-fangled heat-index balderdash, please. A temperature is meaningful, "feels-like" is hooey. If I know the weather conditions I'm capable of working out what it'll feel like on my own, what I want is true data to work from.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:59 pm

spot;1362870 wrote: I say we scrap this new-fangled heat-index balderdash, please. A temperature is meaningful, "feels-like" is hooey. If I know the weather conditions I'm capable of working out what it'll feel like on my own, what I want is true data to work from.

Reverse it and talk windchill - would you still say "A temperature is meaningful, "feels-like" is hooey."?

5C in still conditions is t-shirt weather, 5C with a 20MPH noreaster is piggin' cold - sometimes the temperature in itself is not enough true data to work from.

So long as it's more accurate than Duckworth-Lewis a composite score can be easier than a set of true data values to evaluate.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:35 pm

Clodhopper;1362868 wrote: I'm not sure what Bocce Ball is, but sounds like a great evening.

Would you say these days you are getting more of this freakish weather, less, or about the same amount, compared to say, twenty or thirty years ago?

No comparison with the 62 years that I have lived in California or even historically speaking. Definitely more freakish.

Attached files

Post by **spot** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:23 pm

Bryn Mawr;1362871 wrote: Reverse it and talk windchill - would you still say "A temperature is meaningful, "feels-like" is hooey."?It was wind-chill I had in mind when I wrote. The temperature is quite definitely what I want to be told, I can make my own mind up about the effect once I allow for the conditions. One wind-chill can't be meaningfully compared with another, unlike temperatures.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:42 pm

No comparison with the 62 years that I have lived in California or even historically speaking. Definitely more freakish.

Ah. Thanks for that. My interest is in relation to climate change, as I'm sure you realised.

Bocce ball looks like a pleasant way of passing the time in a competitive way. Do you have to hit the back wall, or is it a dead ball if you do?

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:24 am

The National Weather Service put 18 states stretching from Montana to Texas to West Virginia under a heat warning, watch or advisory, with the heat index topping 38C (100F) in most locations.

NOAA released data in June showing that temperatures had risen across the US by roughly 1.5F during the past 30 years.

Both quotations from the BBC article on the issue. BBC News - Heat-wave 'kills 13 people' across US heartland

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:44 am

It's effing hot is all I have to say!

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:00 am

Clodhopper;1362879 wrote: Ah. Thanks for that. My interest is in relation to climate change, as I'm sure you realised.

Bocce ball looks like a pleasant way of passing the time in a competitive way. Do you have to hit the back wall, or is it a dead ball if you do?

If you hit the back wall without hitting the small ball (pallino) or another ball first it is a dead ball. The game can be played on gravel, crushed sea shells, sand or in my case, grass or artificial turf. The French version is called Petanque. You can play the game without a court and basically it's just a matter of getting your ball closer to the PALLINO (small ball) than your opponent's.

I enjoy playing BOWLS with my Kiwi friends when I am in New Zealand.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:40 am

Only one thing to say to you Lon, Boules...........

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:39 am

spot;1362878 wrote: It was wind-chill I had in mind when I wrote. The temperature is quite definitely what I want to be told, I can make my own mind up about the effect once I allow for the conditions. One wind-chill can't be meaningfully compared with another, unlike temperatures.

But knowing the temperature by itself is insufficient to know what it is (going to be) like - you meed to know the conditions as well. It's all very well asking for half a dozen relevant factors each time you want to know how to dress but easier to have a composite value - as long as the compositing is done meaningfully.

I would dispute the assertion that one wind chill cannot be compared to another - it is the rate at which heat will be removed from the vicinity of the body by the movement of the surrounding air and thus the degree of insulation required to prevent body heat from becoming part of that process and is a repeatable measure. In the same way, heat index is a measure of the extent to which the humidity will prevent the body from cooling by sweating - again a fairly direct and repeatable measure.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:40 am

Bruv;1362901 wrote: Only one thing to say to you Lon, Boules...........

Wouldn't that be Jack?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:47 am

Bryn Mawr;1362904 wrote: Wouldn't that be Jack?

Quite possibly....

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:21 am

Bryn Mawr;1362904 wrote: Wouldn't that be Jack?

Jack is the smaller ball or target ball (Pallino in Bocce Ball).

Two of the most played boule games are pétanque and boule ...

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:55 pm

chcukle. I haven't played anything like that since I was a kid and we had a toy set for the beach. Great for soft sand, but if you played on hard sand, the balls usually ended up in the sea. Not that that was a problem.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:22 pm

Clodhopper;1362909 wrote: chcukle. I haven't played anything like that since I was a kid and we had a toy set for the beach. Great for soft sand, but if you played on hard sand, the balls usually ended up in the sea. Not that that was a problem.

As we age, it's good to let the kid in us come out to play once in a while.

Post by **LarsMac** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:24 pm

Bryn Mawr;1362903 wrote: But knowing the temperature by itself is insufficient to know what it is (going to be) like - you meed to know the conditions as well. It's all very well asking for half a dozen relevant factors each time you want to know how to dress but easier to have a composite value - as long as the compositing is done meaningfully.

I would dispute the assertion that one wind chill cannot be compared to another - it is the rate at which heat will be removed from the vicinity of the body by the movement of the surrounding air and thus the degree of insulation required to prevent body heat from becoming part of that process and is a repeatable measure. In the same way, heat index is a measure of the extent to which the humidity will prevent the body from cooling by sweating - again a fairly direct and repeatable measure.

Good explanation.

I know there is a distinct difference between the Eastern Colorado plains weather and the weather I left in the Texas/Oklahoma/Arkansas region.

95 f here is far less distressful, with the humidity at ~30% compared to the same 95 in Ft Smith Arkansas where the humidity is usually more like 80%.

Heat index is a consumer-friendly way to advise the populace on how to deal with it.

When the humidity is that high, you cannot evaporate enough sweat to keep your body from over heating.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:34 pm

LarsMac;1362916 wrote: Good explanation.

I know there is a distinct difference between the Eastern Colorado plains weather and the weather I left in the Texas/Oklahoma/Arkansas region.

95 f here is far less distressful, with the humidity at ~30% compared to the same 95 in Ft Smith Arkansas where the humidity is usually more like 80%.

Heat index is a consumer-friendly way to advise the populace on how to deal with it.

When the humidity is that high, you cannot evaporate enough sweat to keep your body from over heating.

I will take our 100 F with 20% humidity anytime rather than 85 F with 70% humidity. That's one of the reasons I no longer live in Florida or New Jersey. Air conditioning is fine if you are an indoor all the time person. Me? I am outside much of the time playing golf or other sports.

Post by **spot** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:01 pm

Bryn Mawr;1362903 wrote: I would dispute the assertion that one wind chill cannot be compared to another - it is the rate at which heat will be removed from the vicinity of the body by the movement of the surrounding air and thus the degree of insulation required to prevent body heat from becoming part of that process and is a repeatable measure. In the same way, heat index is a measure of the extent to which the humidity will prevent the body from cooling by sweating - again a fairly direct and repeatable measure.

And a wonderful and useful concept it is too. I object not to the concept but to "measuring" it (if indeed it is measured or even measurable) in temperature degrees. The unit, when combined with the value, is a lie.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:43 am

Walking between buildings at work you feel it radiating up at you from the concrete. It is remarkable.

Beans appear to be the local crop most affected.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:38 am

flopstock;1362920 wrote: Walking between buildings at work you feel it radiating up at you from the concrete. It is remarkable.

Beans appear to be the local crop most affected.

Our buildings melted.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:18 am

As we age, it's good to let the kid in us come out to play once in a while.

When we played as kids, the occasional bucket of water applied to the opposition was regarded as well within the spirit of the game, if not the letter of the law.

Might I respectfully suggest...?

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:07 am

with temps soaring over 35C everyday and no rain for a month, our crops are not looking good, our Ontario corn will be half the size.

yesterday was 48C or 119F with the humility, people who worded outdoors yesterday and today had the day off.......thank god.

luluxiu · Post by **luluxiu** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:28 pm

I was told that I can make my own mind the effect, if my condition allows the temperature is quite sure. A wind chill can not be a meaningful comparison with other, different temperatures....

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:08 am

Hello luluxiu.

I see this is your first post here. Welcome to the Forum Garden.

If you want to say Hello and tell us a little about yourself, go to the Introductions forum and start a thread there. (You don't have to, but many have found it a good place to start)

Regarding making your "own mind the effect", do you mean training your mind to control your body temperature?

cars · Post by **cars** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:31 am

Temps here in NE have been unseasonably hot this year, even breaking records since records first started being kept. There have been several deaths here due to the oppressive heat! Then last winter, it was unseasonably frigid! Many say it's the "Al Gore" syndrome, I think I may have to agree with that!

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:58 am

cars;1363572 wrote: Temps here in NE have been unseasonably hot this year, even breaking records since records first started being kept. There have been several deaths here due to the oppressive heat! Then last winter, it was unseasonably frigid! Many say it's the "Al Gore" syndrome, I think I may have to agree with that!

Ours have also been unseasonably high, everyday.

I also think were in for tons of snow this winter.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:31 am

85 degrees at 7:30 am already.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:47 am

chonsigirl;1363578 wrote: 85 degrees at 7:30 am already.

we've finally had tons of rain, have you had any yet?

cars · Post by **cars** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:00 pm

Yesterday August 1st, we had lightening, thunder, torrential rain, & 1/2" HAIL!!! Freakey weather to say the least!

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:30 am

Forecast is 114 degrees today.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:39 am

YZGI;1363739 wrote: Forecast is 114 degrees today.

Yikes!

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:10 am

YZGI;1363739 wrote: Forecast is 114 degrees today.

ugh!

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:48 pm

funny you know ....all the farmers are delighted with our floods (well kinda) they keep saying "Great back to the old weather patterns)

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:44 am

Eh! Only made 111 yesterday.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:59 pm

YZGI;1363842 wrote: Eh! Only made 111 yesterday.

that's all?:yh_rotfl