What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Here in the U.S., other than reporting that a 29 year old was shot by the police, I don't see any in depth coverage as to the underlying problems. I read this morning that some of the UK press states that it is not RACE RELATED since the rioters are not limited to blacks. One article expressed concern for poor parenting by the rioters parents.:-3 What's Up?
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Lon;1364482 wrote: Here in the U.S., other than reporting that a 29 year old was shot by the police, I don't see any in depth coverage as to the underlying problems. I read this morning that some of the UK press states that it is not RACE RELATED since the rioters are not limited to blacks. One article expressed concern for poor parenting by the rioters parents.:-3 What's Up?
on the news they said there was no reason for rioting......they just decided to do it.
they're burning buildings to the ground, cars, stores etc.
Today, there are finally increasing their police force.
on the news they said there was no reason for rioting......they just decided to do it.
they're burning buildings to the ground, cars, stores etc.
Today, there are finally increasing their police force.
Life is just to short for drama.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Lon;1364482 wrote: Here in the U.S., other than reporting that a 29 year old was shot by the police, I don't see any in depth coverage as to the underlying problems. I read this morning that some of the UK press states that it is not RACE RELATED since the rioters are not limited to blacks. One article expressed concern for poor parenting by the rioters parents.:-3 What's Up? Plain and simple opportunism Lon. High Jacking an Issue In one area to excuse looting In another.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Lon;1364482 wrote: Here in the U.S., other than reporting that a 29 year old was shot by the police, I don't see any in depth coverage as to the underlying problems. I read this morning that some of the UK press states that it is not RACE RELATED since the rioters are not limited to blacks. One article expressed concern for poor parenting by the rioters parents.:-3 What's Up?
It is mostly in very poor areas where the local population feel that they are disadvantaged and unfairly treated - especially by the police.
The killing might have been the trigger but now it is pent up anger followed by opportunistic grabbing for anything of value they can get.
The likes of PC World might make the headlines but the number of cheap supermarkets and DIY stores etc. being hit is telling.
It is mostly in very poor areas where the local population feel that they are disadvantaged and unfairly treated - especially by the police.
The killing might have been the trigger but now it is pent up anger followed by opportunistic grabbing for anything of value they can get.
The likes of PC World might make the headlines but the number of cheap supermarkets and DIY stores etc. being hit is telling.
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
This article might give some insight.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Bruv;1364500 wrote: This article might give some insight.
Excellent
Excellent
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Bruv;1364500 wrote: This article might give some insight.
Thanks----good piece
Looters should be shot and killed on sight and I know that is not the accepted solution to ending rioting, but it works as well as sending a message.
Thanks----good piece
Looters should be shot and killed on sight and I know that is not the accepted solution to ending rioting, but it works as well as sending a message.
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Lon;1364508 wrote: Thanks----good piece
Looters should be shot and killed on sight and I know that is not the accepted solution to ending rioting, but it works as well as sending a message.
Oh dear Lon.........sooo American.
Looters should be shot and killed on sight and I know that is not the accepted solution to ending rioting, but it works as well as sending a message.
Oh dear Lon.........sooo American.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Bruv;1364511 wrote: Oh dear Lon.........sooo American.
Show me one example of British rioters stopping to consider any other human being other than themselves and I'll agree with you !
Show me one example of British rioters stopping to consider any other human being other than themselves and I'll agree with you !
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Bruv;1364511 wrote: Oh dear Lon.........sooo American.
What's the answer?----------Rehabilitation?------that's a laugh.:wah:
What's the answer?----------Rehabilitation?------that's a laugh.:wah:
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
The British don't shoot rioting children as a rule
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Bruv;1364515 wrote: The British don't shoot rioting children as a rule
As opposed to British children shooting each other ?
As opposed to British children shooting each other ?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Has the 10,000 extra police stymied the rioting some this evening or does it start after dark?
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Bruv;1364515 wrote: The British don't shoot rioting children as a rule
It's not customary to shoot rioter's in the U.S. either, but it should be, even children. It would not solve the social problems but is there any doubt that it would end the rioting?
It's not customary to shoot rioter's in the U.S. either, but it should be, even children. It would not solve the social problems but is there any doubt that it would end the rioting?
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Lon;1364519 wrote: It's not customary to shoot rioter's in the U.S. either, but it should be, even children. It would not solve the social problems but is there any doubt that it would end the rioting?
There's also no doubt it would make things very much worse. Our police are unarmed so that they cannot be used to oppress the people. Knee jerk shoot the revolting peasants just doesn't work as a long term solution to anything - our police are actually quite good at riot control they have however been caught by surprise by all of this. It's illuminating that it's often an american that thinks it acceptable for their government to gun down civilians and advocate others do so as well while condemning libya and syria for doing just that.
There's also no doubt it would make things very much worse. Our police are unarmed so that they cannot be used to oppress the people. Knee jerk shoot the revolting peasants just doesn't work as a long term solution to anything - our police are actually quite good at riot control they have however been caught by surprise by all of this. It's illuminating that it's often an american that thinks it acceptable for their government to gun down civilians and advocate others do so as well while condemning libya and syria for doing just that.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
gmc;1364521 wrote: . It's illuminating that it's often an american that thinks it acceptable for their government to gun down civilians and advocate others do so as well while condemning libya and syria for doing just that.
:sneaky::sneaky::sneaky::wah:
:sneaky::sneaky::sneaky::wah:
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Lon;1364519 wrote: It's not customary to shoot rioter's in the U.S. either, but it should be, even children. It would not solve the social problems but is there any doubt that it would end the rioting?
Did it work in LA in 1992?
Did it work in LA in 1992?
-
Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
It's bored spoiled kids who have played too much Grand Theft Auto and that sort of thing hanging around in the school hols and able to get more organised through Blackberry and so cause more mayhem than they used to.
Kingston was apparently due to be targeted tonight. So far nothing. But the shopping centre is boarded up and police there in force. Quite a lot of us are watching to see what happens.
Seems the focus of trouble has moved out from the capital to the provinces.
Kingston was apparently due to be targeted tonight. So far nothing. But the shopping centre is boarded up and police there in force. Quite a lot of us are watching to see what happens.
Seems the focus of trouble has moved out from the capital to the provinces.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Clodhopper;1364538 wrote: It's bored spoiled kids who have played too much Grand Theft Auto and that sort of thing hanging around in the school hols and able to get more organised through Blackberry and so cause more mayhem than they used to.
.
Rot !!!
Take a good look at the area's of the cities where the looting has taken place, and you will see they are In the main deprived area's with lack of jobs and public Investment. The looters are disenchanted youngsters In deprived area's angry about lack of work and Investment.
They are not Idle spoiled kids with nothing to do on the school holidays.
I live In an area where we have tens and tens of bored youngsters In the school holidays but none of them are getting on a bus to join In the rioting.
.
Rot !!!
Take a good look at the area's of the cities where the looting has taken place, and you will see they are In the main deprived area's with lack of jobs and public Investment. The looters are disenchanted youngsters In deprived area's angry about lack of work and Investment.
They are not Idle spoiled kids with nothing to do on the school holidays.
I live In an area where we have tens and tens of bored youngsters In the school holidays but none of them are getting on a bus to join In the rioting.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Lon;1364508 wrote:
Looters should be shot and killed on sight and I know that is not the accepted solution to ending rioting, but it works as well as sending a message.
we felt the same way here, just last February when Toronto had the summit, when they're were rioters here, looting, destruction of others property, attacking others, tipping over and burning police cars, others cars, smashing stores windows, beating on police etc.
downtown Toronto:
G20 Protest Toronto Anarchists Burning Police Cars and Looking For a Fight - YouTube
Looters should be shot and killed on sight and I know that is not the accepted solution to ending rioting, but it works as well as sending a message.
we felt the same way here, just last February when Toronto had the summit, when they're were rioters here, looting, destruction of others property, attacking others, tipping over and burning police cars, others cars, smashing stores windows, beating on police etc.
downtown Toronto:
G20 Protest Toronto Anarchists Burning Police Cars and Looking For a Fight - YouTube
Life is just to short for drama.
-
Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
I think I 'd like to draw attention to the fact that apart from the initial incident, I have not seen a single incident of a gun. What would be going on if this were happening in the USA?
oscar: I'm not saying all kids are like this. We've seen the good they can do with the Children's Protest against the War in Afganistan. This is the flip side of that. There are kids, who for whatever reason, are very nasty. Given time to mature, they could be very good people. Just at the moment, though, they aren't.
I've never had kids, but for some years I was a teacher. I know the same kid can be great one day and horrible the next. It's a part of growing up.
A lot of this has been hijacked by explicitly criminal gangs. It isn't kids tonight, as far as I can tell. Still no sign of trouble in Kingston.
edit: a couple of incidents of guns in four days of rioting. Very low death toll. 2 dead? All bad, but it could be worse.
oscar: I'm not saying all kids are like this. We've seen the good they can do with the Children's Protest against the War in Afganistan. This is the flip side of that. There are kids, who for whatever reason, are very nasty. Given time to mature, they could be very good people. Just at the moment, though, they aren't.
I've never had kids, but for some years I was a teacher. I know the same kid can be great one day and horrible the next. It's a part of growing up.
A lot of this has been hijacked by explicitly criminal gangs. It isn't kids tonight, as far as I can tell. Still no sign of trouble in Kingston.
edit: a couple of incidents of guns in four days of rioting. Very low death toll. 2 dead? All bad, but it could be worse.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Clodhopper;1364545 wrote: I think I 'd like to draw attention to the fact that apart from the initial incident, I have not seen a single incident of a gun. What would be going on if this were happening in the USA?
oscar: I'm not saying all kids are like this. We've seen the good they can do with the Children's Protest against the War in Afganistan. This is the flip side of that. There are kids, who for whatever reason, are very nasty. Given time to mature, they could be very good people. Just at the moment, though, they aren't.
I've never had kids, but for some years I was a teacher. I know the same kid can be great one day and horrible the next. It's a part of growing up.
A lot of this has been hijacked by explicitly criminal gangs. It isn't kids tonight, as far as I can tell. Still no sign of trouble in Kingston.
I'm not convinced that it is organised gangs that are doing it - I think it is the herd in the street grabbing what he can whilst he can and be damn'd with the consequences.
oscar: I'm not saying all kids are like this. We've seen the good they can do with the Children's Protest against the War in Afganistan. This is the flip side of that. There are kids, who for whatever reason, are very nasty. Given time to mature, they could be very good people. Just at the moment, though, they aren't.
I've never had kids, but for some years I was a teacher. I know the same kid can be great one day and horrible the next. It's a part of growing up.
A lot of this has been hijacked by explicitly criminal gangs. It isn't kids tonight, as far as I can tell. Still no sign of trouble in Kingston.
I'm not convinced that it is organised gangs that are doing it - I think it is the herd in the street grabbing what he can whilst he can and be damn'd with the consequences.
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
oscar;1364517 wrote: As opposed to British children shooting each other ?
What exactly does that mean ?
Maybe the Police should carry machetes too ?
I am being ridiculous of course.
(Tell me you were too)
What exactly does that mean ?
Maybe the Police should carry machetes too ?
I am being ridiculous of course.
(Tell me you were too)
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
gmc;1364521 wrote: There's also no doubt it would make things very much worse. Our police are unarmed so that they cannot be used to oppress the people. Knee jerk shoot the revolting peasants just doesn't work as a long term solution to anything - our police are actually quite good at riot control they have however been caught by surprise by all of this. It's illuminating that it's often an american that thinks it acceptable for their government to gun down civilians and advocate others do so as well while condemning libya and syria for doing just that.
Don't you think there is a difference between LOOTING and what is happening in Syria & Libya?
Don't you think there is a difference between LOOTING and what is happening in Syria & Libya?
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Bryn Mawr;1364528 wrote: Did it work in LA in 1992?
LA and New Orleans had isolated instances of shootings but it is not stated policy to shoot looters on sight. If it was a stated policy do you really think looters would risk their own lives. They loot knowing that it's highly unlikely that they will be caught or even punished.
LA and New Orleans had isolated instances of shootings but it is not stated policy to shoot looters on sight. If it was a stated policy do you really think looters would risk their own lives. They loot knowing that it's highly unlikely that they will be caught or even punished.
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Clodhopper;1364545 wrote: I think I 'd like to draw attention to the fact that apart from the initial incident, I have not seen a single incident of a gun. What would be going on if this were happening in the USA?
(Lon's reply)
If this would be going on in the U.S. it would be tolerated just the same as in the UK. Destruction of property, loses to businesses, higher insurance rates and the majority of offenders not punished.
(Lon's reply)
If this would be going on in the U.S. it would be tolerated just the same as in the UK. Destruction of property, loses to businesses, higher insurance rates and the majority of offenders not punished.
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
I have heard that there is a march by the NF in sensitive Eltham, on the way to Lewisham.
Just for information Eltham is where a black youth was stabbed to death some years ago by a group of white youths, Lewisham is a predominantly black area.
Eltham also has had public houses being 'protected' by groups of whites, also Enfield is reported to have outbreaks of what can only be called white repercussions.......none reported on mainstream media as yet.
This appears to be more than rumour......frightening
Caution swearing
Just for information Eltham is where a black youth was stabbed to death some years ago by a group of white youths, Lewisham is a predominantly black area.
Eltham also has had public houses being 'protected' by groups of whites, also Enfield is reported to have outbreaks of what can only be called white repercussions.......none reported on mainstream media as yet.
This appears to be more than rumour......frightening
Caution swearing
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Lon;1364554 wrote: Don't you think there is a difference between LOOTING and what is happening in Syria & Libya?
Not when it come to shooting your own people, no.
Not when it come to shooting your own people, no.
-
Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
I'm not convinced that it is organised gangs that are doing it - I think it is the herd in the street grabbing what he can whilst he can and be damn'd with the consequences.
This is the impression I'm getting tonight, but there are hints of more organised things going on, opportunistically, I think.
This is the impression I'm getting tonight, but there are hints of more organised things going on, opportunistically, I think.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
-
Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
If this would be going on in the U.S. it would be tolerated just the same as in the UK. Destruction of property, loses to businesses, higher insurance rates and the majority of offenders not punished.
Yeah? Well, I'm glad. I must admit I had the impression it would be gunfight at the ok corral, especially if you are black.
Yeah? Well, I'm glad. I must admit I had the impression it would be gunfight at the ok corral, especially if you are black.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Lon;1364558 wrote: LA and New Orleans had isolated instances of shootings but it is not stated policy to shoot looters on sight. If it was a stated policy do you really think looters would risk their own lives. They loot knowing that it's highly unlikely that they will be caught or even punished.
Parallel situation - when four white police beat the **** out of a coloured guy and then were acquitted by a white jury there were riots that lasted for weeks. The police were, as I recall, heavy handed in trying to suppress the looting that accompanied the rioting.
It did no good then and it would do no good now.
Parallel situation - when four white police beat the **** out of a coloured guy and then were acquitted by a white jury there were riots that lasted for weeks. The police were, as I recall, heavy handed in trying to suppress the looting that accompanied the rioting.
It did no good then and it would do no good now.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Bruv;1364553 wrote: What exactly does that mean ?
Maybe the Police should carry machetes too ?
I am being ridiculous of course.
(Tell me you were too)
Under-18s 'commit most gun crimes' - Telegraph
Any person under the age of 17 Is legally termed as 'A child'.
I stand by what I said.... do you ?
Maybe the Police should carry machetes too ?
I am being ridiculous of course.
(Tell me you were too)
Under-18s 'commit most gun crimes' - Telegraph
Any person under the age of 17 Is legally termed as 'A child'.
I stand by what I said.... do you ?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
I fail to see any relevance.
I said the Police don't shoot children as a rule, I could have said the police don't shoot anybody as a rule.
Throwing a statistic that 'children' shoot more children than adults do, doesn't automatically mean the police should gun them down.
Have I lost track here ?......I often do.....
I said the Police don't shoot children as a rule, I could have said the police don't shoot anybody as a rule.
Throwing a statistic that 'children' shoot more children than adults do, doesn't automatically mean the police should gun them down.
Have I lost track here ?......I often do.....
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
-
Patsy Warnick
- Posts: 4567
- Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:53 am
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
This article sounds like BULLIES taking advantage of the WEAK.
They're not taking advantage of the wealthy area for LOOTING...!
PUNKS...!
Patsy
They're not taking advantage of the wealthy area for LOOTING...!
PUNKS...!
Patsy
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Odie;1364544 wrote: we felt the same way here, just last February when Toronto had the summit, when they're were rioters here, looting, destruction of others property, attacking others, tipping over and burning police cars, others cars, smashing stores windows, beating on police etc.
downtown Toronto:
G20 Protest Toronto Anarchists Burning Police Cars and Looking For a Fight - YouTube
forgot to mention, these were all punk having a so-called good time.
little did they know they would be caught, over 400 arrested as many had their cell phones recording and handed them over to our police for poof.
later a few guys said they got caught up in the moment & how sorry they were, a tad late for that ****.
downtown Toronto:
G20 Protest Toronto Anarchists Burning Police Cars and Looking For a Fight - YouTube
forgot to mention, these were all punk having a so-called good time.
little did they know they would be caught, over 400 arrested as many had their cell phones recording and handed them over to our police for poof.
later a few guys said they got caught up in the moment & how sorry they were, a tad late for that ****.
Life is just to short for drama.
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
What's the answer?----------Rehabilitation?------that's a laugh.
Opportunity Lon, opportunity. When you were young you had opportunity, you bought your first home, got married and had children. How many 18 year olds in America today have the opportunities you had at that age? How many of them have that in England?
Opportunity Lon, opportunity. When you were young you had opportunity, you bought your first home, got married and had children. How many 18 year olds in America today have the opportunities you had at that age? How many of them have that in England?
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
It's not customary to shoot rioter's in the U.S. either, but it should be, even children. It would not solve the social problems but is there any doubt that it would end the rioting?
Has it worked in Syria? Did it work for the Boston Massacre? You're exceptionally intelligent and respectable Lon but that is just stupid. I have to say, if there were riots in Seattle again and people were shot by the police I can say I won't be in front of this computer. Once bullets start flying all bets are off.
Has it worked in Syria? Did it work for the Boston Massacre? You're exceptionally intelligent and respectable Lon but that is just stupid. I have to say, if there were riots in Seattle again and people were shot by the police I can say I won't be in front of this computer. Once bullets start flying all bets are off.
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Scrat;1364593 wrote: Has it worked in Syria? Did it work for the Boston Massacre? You're exceptionally intelligent and respectable Lon but that is just stupid. I have to say, if there were riots in Seattle again and people were shot by the police I can say I won't be in front of this computer. Once bullets start flying all bets are off.
Syria is an entirely different situation and the reasons for the violence differ greatly. People will risk their lives for many reasons but I really doubt that the UK insurgents would if they knew ahead of time they would be shot.
If it was made public in advance that LOOTERS (and I am talking only about LOOTERS) would be shot, I doubt if anyone would be stupid enough to loot. The problem is that there is NO STATED POLICY as to how to respond to looters that will effectively curtail the rioting. There is a big difference between civil disobedience and LOOTING.
Syria is an entirely different situation and the reasons for the violence differ greatly. People will risk their lives for many reasons but I really doubt that the UK insurgents would if they knew ahead of time they would be shot.
If it was made public in advance that LOOTERS (and I am talking only about LOOTERS) would be shot, I doubt if anyone would be stupid enough to loot. The problem is that there is NO STATED POLICY as to how to respond to looters that will effectively curtail the rioting. There is a big difference between civil disobedience and LOOTING.
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Lon;1364554 wrote: Don't you think there is a difference between LOOTING and what is happening in Syria & Libya?
Syria is an entirely different situation and the reasons for the violence differ greatly. People will risk their lives for many reasons but I really doubt that the UK insurgents would if they knew ahead of time they would be shot.
If it was made public in advance that LOOTERS (and I am talking only about LOOTERS) would be shot, I doubt if anyone would be stupid enough to loot. The problem is that there is NO STATED POLICY as to how to respond to looters that will effectively curtail the rioting. There is a big difference between civil disobedience and LOOTING.
Not in essence, it's a manifestation of social unrest in both countries the difference is in a free country the government does not have a mandate to gun down people indiscriminately and no free people would allow their police that kind of power or tolerate the use of troops against their own people. Due process of the law, for all it's faults, is primarily designed to curb the power of government and prevent the arrest and execution of citizens without a very good reason. Do you really want to live in a police state? Apart from that it is hardly an insurgency in the UK, there's no political agenda behind it it's our disenchanted feral youth taking out their frustrations on those around them, mindless thugs they may be but there is usually reasons behind what happens. There have been similar riots in Northern Ireland where it is teenagers who grew up after the troubles that seem hell bent on starting it all again.
Since most americans are armed I would have thought looters would have an expectation that they will be shot anyway - doesn't stop them does it. In New Orleans the impression was given they were more interested in shooting looters than actually helping people, how accurate that was I don't really know. Given all that has happened and is happening to them at the hands of government that does not seem to care about ordinary people and rides roughshod over their rights and the political system seems incapable of being influenced by no one except those who can pay money there are plenty of reasons for americans to riot, do you think they will?
Syria is an entirely different situation and the reasons for the violence differ greatly. People will risk their lives for many reasons but I really doubt that the UK insurgents would if they knew ahead of time they would be shot.
If it was made public in advance that LOOTERS (and I am talking only about LOOTERS) would be shot, I doubt if anyone would be stupid enough to loot. The problem is that there is NO STATED POLICY as to how to respond to looters that will effectively curtail the rioting. There is a big difference between civil disobedience and LOOTING.
Not in essence, it's a manifestation of social unrest in both countries the difference is in a free country the government does not have a mandate to gun down people indiscriminately and no free people would allow their police that kind of power or tolerate the use of troops against their own people. Due process of the law, for all it's faults, is primarily designed to curb the power of government and prevent the arrest and execution of citizens without a very good reason. Do you really want to live in a police state? Apart from that it is hardly an insurgency in the UK, there's no political agenda behind it it's our disenchanted feral youth taking out their frustrations on those around them, mindless thugs they may be but there is usually reasons behind what happens. There have been similar riots in Northern Ireland where it is teenagers who grew up after the troubles that seem hell bent on starting it all again.
Since most americans are armed I would have thought looters would have an expectation that they will be shot anyway - doesn't stop them does it. In New Orleans the impression was given they were more interested in shooting looters than actually helping people, how accurate that was I don't really know. Given all that has happened and is happening to them at the hands of government that does not seem to care about ordinary people and rides roughshod over their rights and the political system seems incapable of being influenced by no one except those who can pay money there are plenty of reasons for americans to riot, do you think they will?
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Clodhopper;1364567 wrote: Yeah? Well, I'm glad. I must admit I had the impression it would be gunfight at the ok corral, especially if you are black.
Are you suggesting our police are Institutionally racist ?
Are you suggesting our police are Institutionally racist ?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Bruv;1364515 wrote: The British don't shoot rioting children as a rule
gmc;1364521 wrote: There's also no doubt it would make things very much worse. Our police are unarmed so that they cannot be used to oppress the people. Knee jerk shoot the revolting peasants just doesn't work as a long term solution to anything - our police are actually quite good at riot control they have however been caught by surprise by all of this. It's illuminating that it's often an american that thinks it acceptable for their government to gun down civilians and advocate others do so as well while condemning libya and syria for doing just that.
Bryn Mawr;1364528 wrote: Did it work in LA in 1992?
Clodhopper;1364545 wrote: I think I 'd like to draw attention to the fact that apart from the initial incident, I have not seen a single incident of a gun. What would be going on if this were happening in the USA?
oscar: I'm not saying all kids are like this. We've seen the good they can do with the Children's Protest against the War in Afganistan. This is the flip side of that. There are kids, who for whatever reason, are very nasty. Given time to mature, they could be very good people. Just at the moment, though, they aren't.
I've never had kids, but for some years I was a teacher. I know the same kid can be great one day and horrible the next. It's a part of growing up.
A lot of this has been hijacked by explicitly criminal gangs. It isn't kids tonight, as far as I can tell. Still no sign of trouble in Kingston.
edit: a couple of incidents of guns in four days of rioting. Very low death toll. 2 dead? All bad, but it could be worse.
Clodhopper;1364567 wrote: Yeah? Well, I'm glad. I must admit I had the impression it would be gunfight at the ok corral, especially if you are black.
Bryn Mawr;1364568 wrote: Parallel situation - when four white police beat the **** out of a coloured guy and then were acquitted by a white jury there were riots that lasted for weeks. The police were, as I recall, heavy handed in trying to suppress the looting that accompanied the rioting.
It did no good then and it would do no good now.
gmc;1364608 wrote: Not in essence, it's a manifestation of social unrest in both countries the difference is in a free country the government does not have a mandate to gun down people indiscriminately and no free people would allow their police that kind of power or tolerate the use of troops against their own people. Due process of the law, for all it's faults, is primarily designed to curb the power of government and prevent the arrest and execution of citizens without a very good reason. Do you really want to live in a police state? Apart from that it is hardly an insurgency in the UK, there's no political agenda behind it it's our disenchanted feral youth taking out their frustrations on those around them, mindless thugs they may be but there is usually reasons behind what happens. There have been similar riots in Northern Ireland where it is teenagers who grew up after the troubles that seem hell bent on starting it all again.
Since most americans are armed I would have thought looters would have an expectation that they will be shot anyway - doesn't stop them does it. In New Orleans the impression was given they were more interested in shooting looters than actually helping people, how accurate that was I don't really know. Given all that has happened and is happening to them at the hands of government that does not seem to care about ordinary people and rides roughshod over their rights and the political system seems incapable of being influenced by no one except those who can pay money there are plenty of reasons for americans to riot, do you think they will?
Wow, talk about deflecting.
We're having riots in England but aren't we glad we're not in America having riots? Because we know American riots are much worse tsk.tsk. Those gun toting Americans are just so un-evolved compared to us.
You guys are rioting not us. Figure out you own societal problems and we will deal with ours when they happen.
gmc;1364521 wrote: There's also no doubt it would make things very much worse. Our police are unarmed so that they cannot be used to oppress the people. Knee jerk shoot the revolting peasants just doesn't work as a long term solution to anything - our police are actually quite good at riot control they have however been caught by surprise by all of this. It's illuminating that it's often an american that thinks it acceptable for their government to gun down civilians and advocate others do so as well while condemning libya and syria for doing just that.
Bryn Mawr;1364528 wrote: Did it work in LA in 1992?
Clodhopper;1364545 wrote: I think I 'd like to draw attention to the fact that apart from the initial incident, I have not seen a single incident of a gun. What would be going on if this were happening in the USA?
oscar: I'm not saying all kids are like this. We've seen the good they can do with the Children's Protest against the War in Afganistan. This is the flip side of that. There are kids, who for whatever reason, are very nasty. Given time to mature, they could be very good people. Just at the moment, though, they aren't.
I've never had kids, but for some years I was a teacher. I know the same kid can be great one day and horrible the next. It's a part of growing up.
A lot of this has been hijacked by explicitly criminal gangs. It isn't kids tonight, as far as I can tell. Still no sign of trouble in Kingston.
edit: a couple of incidents of guns in four days of rioting. Very low death toll. 2 dead? All bad, but it could be worse.
Clodhopper;1364567 wrote: Yeah? Well, I'm glad. I must admit I had the impression it would be gunfight at the ok corral, especially if you are black.
Bryn Mawr;1364568 wrote: Parallel situation - when four white police beat the **** out of a coloured guy and then were acquitted by a white jury there were riots that lasted for weeks. The police were, as I recall, heavy handed in trying to suppress the looting that accompanied the rioting.
It did no good then and it would do no good now.
gmc;1364608 wrote: Not in essence, it's a manifestation of social unrest in both countries the difference is in a free country the government does not have a mandate to gun down people indiscriminately and no free people would allow their police that kind of power or tolerate the use of troops against their own people. Due process of the law, for all it's faults, is primarily designed to curb the power of government and prevent the arrest and execution of citizens without a very good reason. Do you really want to live in a police state? Apart from that it is hardly an insurgency in the UK, there's no political agenda behind it it's our disenchanted feral youth taking out their frustrations on those around them, mindless thugs they may be but there is usually reasons behind what happens. There have been similar riots in Northern Ireland where it is teenagers who grew up after the troubles that seem hell bent on starting it all again.
Since most americans are armed I would have thought looters would have an expectation that they will be shot anyway - doesn't stop them does it. In New Orleans the impression was given they were more interested in shooting looters than actually helping people, how accurate that was I don't really know. Given all that has happened and is happening to them at the hands of government that does not seem to care about ordinary people and rides roughshod over their rights and the political system seems incapable of being influenced by no one except those who can pay money there are plenty of reasons for americans to riot, do you think they will?
Wow, talk about deflecting.
We're having riots in England but aren't we glad we're not in America having riots? Because we know American riots are much worse tsk.tsk. Those gun toting Americans are just so un-evolved compared to us.
You guys are rioting not us. Figure out you own societal problems and we will deal with ours when they happen.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
YZGI;1364634 wrote: Wow, talk about deflecting.
We're having riots in England but aren't we glad we're not in America having riots? Because we know American riots are much worse tsk.tsk. Those gun toting Americans are just so un-evolved compared to us.
You guys are rioting not us. Figure out you own societal problems and we will deal with ours when they happen. I think with some, It's a form of defence and embarrassment that they deflect by highlighting previous rioting In the USA Instead of taking It on the chin what is happening here.
Lousy present coalition government, lousy previous Labour government and no hope of anything changing with future governments have created discord and unrest amongst the more deprived communities where In my humble opinion, lack of Investment has helped towards what we are seeing.
We're having riots in England but aren't we glad we're not in America having riots? Because we know American riots are much worse tsk.tsk. Those gun toting Americans are just so un-evolved compared to us.
You guys are rioting not us. Figure out you own societal problems and we will deal with ours when they happen. I think with some, It's a form of defence and embarrassment that they deflect by highlighting previous rioting In the USA Instead of taking It on the chin what is happening here.
Lousy present coalition government, lousy previous Labour government and no hope of anything changing with future governments have created discord and unrest amongst the more deprived communities where In my humble opinion, lack of Investment has helped towards what we are seeing.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
oscar;1364635 wrote: I think with some, It's a form of defence and embarrassment that they deflect by highlighting previous rioting In the USA Instead of taking It on the chin what is happening here.
Lousy present coalition government, lousy previous Labour government and no hope of anything changing with future governments have created discord and unrest amongst the more deprived communities where In my humble opinion, lack of Investment has helped towards what we are seeing.
Thanks for the response. I was sitting here thinking, why are we getting beat up here. I know we have our problems, and probably many more than you guys but this one happens to not be our fault.
Lousy present coalition government, lousy previous Labour government and no hope of anything changing with future governments have created discord and unrest amongst the more deprived communities where In my humble opinion, lack of Investment has helped towards what we are seeing.
Thanks for the response. I was sitting here thinking, why are we getting beat up here. I know we have our problems, and probably many more than you guys but this one happens to not be our fault.
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
gmc;1364608 wrote: Not in essence, it's a manifestation of social unrest in both countries the difference is in a free country the government does not have a mandate to gun down people indiscriminately and no free people would allow their police that kind of power or tolerate the use of troops against their own people. Due process of the law, for all it's faults, is primarily designed to curb the power of government and prevent the arrest and execution of citizens without a very good reason. Do you really want to live in a police state? Apart from that it is hardly an insurgency in the UK, there's no political agenda behind it it's our disenchanted feral youth taking out their frustrations on those around them, mindless thugs they may be but there is usually reasons behind what happens. There have been similar riots in Northern Ireland where it is teenagers who grew up after the troubles that seem hell bent on starting it all again.
Since most americans are armed I would have thought looters would have an expectation that they will be shot anyway - doesn't stop them does it. In New Orleans the impression was given they were more interested in shooting looters than actually helping people, how accurate that was I don't really know. Given all that has happened and is happening to them at the hands of government that does not seem to care about ordinary people and rides roughshod over their rights and the political system seems incapable of being influenced by no one except those who can pay money there are plenty of reasons for americans to riot, do you think they will?
It is my personal belief that irrespective of the various causes of civil unrest, all properties could and should be protected and it's a cop out when some say "well human life is more valuable than property" or "the properties are insured, no problem".
Since most americans are armed I would have thought looters would have an expectation that they will be shot anyway - doesn't stop them does it. In New Orleans the impression was given they were more interested in shooting looters than actually helping people, how accurate that was I don't really know. Given all that has happened and is happening to them at the hands of government that does not seem to care about ordinary people and rides roughshod over their rights and the political system seems incapable of being influenced by no one except those who can pay money there are plenty of reasons for americans to riot, do you think they will?
It is my personal belief that irrespective of the various causes of civil unrest, all properties could and should be protected and it's a cop out when some say "well human life is more valuable than property" or "the properties are insured, no problem".
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
CAREFUL!!!! Those darn Water Cannons could really hurt some one and possibly kill.
UK RIOTS 2011: Manchester and Midlands burn but London is 'under control' | Mail Online
UK RIOTS 2011: Manchester and Midlands burn but London is 'under control' | Mail Online
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Lon;1364651 wrote: CAREFUL!!!! Those darn Water Cannons could really hurt some one and possibly kill.
UK RIOTS 2011: Manchester and Midlands burn but London is 'under control' | Mail Online
Wow, those pic's are sad.
UK RIOTS 2011: Manchester and Midlands burn but London is 'under control' | Mail Online
Wow, those pic's are sad.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
YZGI;1364652 wrote: Wow, those pic's are sad.
I expect the parents are already queuing up outside the human rights lawyers offices looking for compo for having their darlings faces exposed In the tabloids.
I expect the parents are already queuing up outside the human rights lawyers offices looking for compo for having their darlings faces exposed In the tabloids.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
oscar;1364653 wrote: I expect the parents are already queuing up outside the human rights lawyers offices looking for compo for having their darlings faces exposed In the tabloids.
The youngsters look so disadvantaged and under nourished. Just look how shabby their clothes are. :-2
The youngsters look so disadvantaged and under nourished. Just look how shabby their clothes are. :-2
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
"Later, the Prime Minister also described the apparent hit-and-run killing of three men in Birmingham who were trying to protect shops from looters as a 'truly dreadful incident' and offered his condolences to their families."
Read more: UK RIOTS 2011: Manchester and Midlands burn but London is 'under control' | Mail Online
Read more: UK RIOTS 2011: Manchester and Midlands burn but London is 'under control' | Mail Online
What's The Cause Of The UK Rioting?
Lon;1364644 wrote: It is my personal belief that irrespective of the various causes of civil unrest, all properties could and should be protected and it's a cop out when some say "well human life is more valuable than property" or "the properties are insured, no problem".
It's not a cop out, no one is suggesting they just get away with it but giving the police the right to gun people down is not something any free society with any sense would allow. It's got bugger all to do with human life is more valuable than property. The police should not be given the authority to just shoot people on sight because only an idiot would want to live in the kind of police state where that is allowed.
posted by YZGI
Wow, talk about deflecting.
We're having riots in England but aren't we glad we're not in America having riots? Because we know American riots are much worse tsk.tsk. Those gun toting Americans are just so un-evolved compared to us.
You guys are rioting not us. Figure out you own societal problems and we will deal with ours when they happen.
You should really read things through properly before you comment and not make assumptions that commenst are simply somehow anti-american. Lon was making the point that if looters knew they would be shot on sight they are less likely to do so. In the states most americans are armed so presumably any looter can expect the likelihood of being shot by someone defending their property is quite high, since it doesn't seem to make any difference the suggestion that the expectation would curtail the looting doesn't seem to hold does it. Also when americans suggest that the police start shooting people pointing out that that didn't actually work in the states and makes things worse what makes you think it will work here is a valid response.
We don't live in a police state, our police are not armed and haven't been from the creation of the modern police force so that they would not be perceived as an instrument of oppression controlled by the state. We actually have a long tradition of violent protest sometimes that is what it takes to get through to governments. If you look carefully at what the riot police are wearing and carrying you will notice they are tooled up to deal with rioters, even ones chucking fire bombs.
I was actually asking a serious question about why americans don't demonstrate and riot over political issues, you have me thinking it's because they live in fear of the police opening fire on them.
As to ahas caused all this that should keep the pundits going for months to come.
It's not a cop out, no one is suggesting they just get away with it but giving the police the right to gun people down is not something any free society with any sense would allow. It's got bugger all to do with human life is more valuable than property. The police should not be given the authority to just shoot people on sight because only an idiot would want to live in the kind of police state where that is allowed.
posted by YZGI
Wow, talk about deflecting.
We're having riots in England but aren't we glad we're not in America having riots? Because we know American riots are much worse tsk.tsk. Those gun toting Americans are just so un-evolved compared to us.
You guys are rioting not us. Figure out you own societal problems and we will deal with ours when they happen.
You should really read things through properly before you comment and not make assumptions that commenst are simply somehow anti-american. Lon was making the point that if looters knew they would be shot on sight they are less likely to do so. In the states most americans are armed so presumably any looter can expect the likelihood of being shot by someone defending their property is quite high, since it doesn't seem to make any difference the suggestion that the expectation would curtail the looting doesn't seem to hold does it. Also when americans suggest that the police start shooting people pointing out that that didn't actually work in the states and makes things worse what makes you think it will work here is a valid response.
We don't live in a police state, our police are not armed and haven't been from the creation of the modern police force so that they would not be perceived as an instrument of oppression controlled by the state. We actually have a long tradition of violent protest sometimes that is what it takes to get through to governments. If you look carefully at what the riot police are wearing and carrying you will notice they are tooled up to deal with rioters, even ones chucking fire bombs.
I was actually asking a serious question about why americans don't demonstrate and riot over political issues, you have me thinking it's because they live in fear of the police opening fire on them.
As to ahas caused all this that should keep the pundits going for months to come.