I'm fuming!!

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:37 am

Eighteen months ago, I pulled out of my drive and slightly shunted a car that had been parked opposite my drive. It was about 6.45 a.m. as I was on an early shift at the acute hospital where I used to do agency work. I stopped and put a note on the windscreen, with my telephone number. It turned out it was my next door neighbour's mother's car. Several weeks later I asked her if she had had the dent repaired and she said she hadn't but that she would. I asked her several times afterwards and then, as the months went by, I actually forgot all about it. I thought that perhaps she wasn't going to bother with the repair. It certainly wasn't major and her car wasn't dent free anyway.

I just went out to put some things in my car boot and she was visiting her daughter (I've seen her loads of times since the shunt and we always pass the time of day). She said she had had her car repaired and showed me a car repair business card with £340 + VAT on it. I said to her, wow, Daisy (my grandchild) was just a few days old when this happened, I'd forgotten all about it. Then, as I began to get over the shock, I asked her for a detailed receipt of the work that had been done.

I shall pay it of course once I get the detailed account, but the woman didn't even apologise for it taking so long.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:49 am

I wonder if statute of limitations applies, although it would be difficult to prove when it happened, I suppose.

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:54 am

SnoozeAgain;1370806 wrote: I wonder if statute of limitations applies, although it would be difficult to prove when it happened, I suppose.

It happened on the 7th March 2010, Snooze...I only remember it so well because my granddaughter had been born on the Wednesday.

I've calmed down a little now...it was just such a shock after all this time. It wasn't major damage and it was an oldish car, I assumed she hadn't bothered.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:10 am

Theia, make sure you get a detailed account and follow It through by contacting the garage where she had the work done. Ask to speak to who did the work and ask him exactly what he did.

She could have had a relative do a basic repair who's got a mate with a reciept pad.... better to be suspicious than get ripped off.

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:16 am

oscar;1370818 wrote: Theia, make sure you get a detailed account and follow It through by contacting the garage where she had the work done. Ask to speak to who did the work and ask him exactly what he did.

She could have had a relative do a basic repair who's got a mate with a reciept pad.... better to be suspicious than get ripped off.

Yes, I'm going to, oscar...I surprised myself actually that I asked for an official receipt as I only usually think of these things afterwards! It's the time delay that I can't believe and of course the shock at having to pay out £400,18 months later

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:24 am

theia;1370820 wrote: Yes, I'm going to, oscar...I surprised myself actually that I asked for an official receipt as I only usually think of these things afterwards! It's the time delay that I can't believe and of course the shock at having to pay out £400,18 months later

The time delay would make me very suspicious.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:27 am

theia;1370804 wrote: Eighteen months ago, I pulled out of my drive and slightly shunted a car that had been parked opposite my drive. It was about 6.45 a.m. as I was on an early shift at the acute hospital where I used to do agency work. I stopped and put a note on the windscreen, with my telephone number. It turned out it was my next door neighbour's mother's car. Several weeks later I asked her if she had had the dent repaired and she said she hadn't but that she would. I asked her several times afterwards and then, as the months went by, I actually forgot all about it. I thought that perhaps she wasn't going to bother with the repair. It certainly wasn't major and her car wasn't dent free anyway.

I just went out to put some things in my car boot and she was visiting her daughter (I've seen her loads of times since the shunt and we always pass the time of day). She said she had had her car repaired and showed me a car repair business card with £340 + VAT on it. I said to her, wow, Daisy (my grandchild) was just a few days old when this happened, I'd forgotten all about it. Then, as I began to get over the shock, I asked her for a detailed receipt of the work that had been done.

I shall pay it of course once I get the detailed account, but the woman didn't even apologise for it taking so long.

Of major importance would be the actual date of the repair work. If she waited until just recently to have repairs done you have no way of knowing if it was damage caused by you or if additional damages not caused by you were added. If it was me I would say "sorry you took so long with this repair and I will not pay you anything" SUE ME IF YOU CAN.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:28 am

£ 408.00 ?

Tell her you were quick to report the damage because leaving it would cause rust to increase the cost of any repair work.

Tell her you will go halves.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:37 am

I like Bruv's idea, I like Lon's too but not sure I'd have the guts to say that one, you do have to live next door to her son/daughter after all.

Maybe offer to pay half and ask for eighteen months to do so :sneaky:

And, yes, get a full detailed invoice, how old is her car, is it suddenly dent free all over?

I know car bodyworks don't come cheap but even so after all this time I'd want to know that the only damage I paid for was the damage I had caused.

Post by **spot** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:06 am

I suspect the main aim should be to keep on good terms with the neighbour. If there's a detailed invoice available then it's as above board as it gets really. She's not trying to get an inconvenience award or payment for hiring alternative transport. And it's not something you get stuck with annually.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:25 am

spot;1370837 wrote: I suspect the main aim should be to keep on good terms with the neighbour. If there's a detailed invoice available then it's as above board as it gets really. She's not trying to get an inconvenience award or payment for hiring alternative transport. And it's not something you get stuck with annually.

I disagree.

A year and a half Is a heck of a long time to wait and would make anyone suspicious especially as In the long run, she Is not paying for the damage herself but Theia and the woman hasn't got the plea that she had to save up.

I'm with Lon and Bruv.

If Theia phones the garage and asks exactly what work they did, she can find out weather they repaired body work or other on the car other than the dent she caused.

It's the oldest trick In the book.

I agree that It is nicer to get along with neighbours but this Is not the neighbour. It's the neighbours relative.

I myself would speak to the person who worked on the car.

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:29 am

Bruv;1370826 wrote: £ 408.00 ?

Tell her you were quick to report the damage because leaving it would cause rust to increase the cost of any repair work.

Tell her you will go halves.

Thinking about the VAT...did it rise this year?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:31 am

theia;1370846 wrote: Thinking about the VAT...did it rise this year?
Rise of 2 and a half %

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:33 am

oscar;1370847 wrote: Rise of 2 and a half %

So, had the repair been done within 9 months, the VAT would have been lower? Sounds petty, doesn't it, but I'm feeling miffed

Post by **spot** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:35 am

A difference of £8.50.

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:49 am

spot;1370837 wrote: I suspect the main aim should be to keep on good terms with the neighbour. If there's a detailed invoice available then it's as above board as it gets really. She's not trying to get an inconvenience award or payment for hiring alternative transport. And it's not something you get stuck with annually.

Why would she hire alternative transport? It was a small dent in her side door and she's been using the car for 18 months...I know this because she looks after her grandson and is next door almost daily.

Post by **spot** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:52 am

It's what people do when they take the car in for repair ASAP regardless of when they need to drive.

Seeing the detailed invoice will give you a better idea of what approach to take, I'd have thought.

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:03 am

spot;1370853 wrote: It's what people do when they take the car in for repair ASAP regardless of when they need to drive.

Seeing the detailed invoice will give you a better idea of what approach to take, I'd have thought.

I'm beginning to doubt if honesty really is the best policy...no-one would have heard or seen me at that time in the morning. And there was only a slight scratch on my bumper. I know I was legally obliged to leave my details but even if I hadn't been, I would still have left a note.

It's naive, I know, but I want to believe that others are honest too and wouldn't take advantage of a situation to claim more money.

Post by **spot** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:07 am

If you have one of those phones that takes photos you could put the detailed invoice main text onto the thread when it arrives.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:17 am

theia;1370856 wrote: I'm beginning to doubt if honesty really is the best policy...no-one would have heard or seen me at that time in the morning. And there was only a slight scratch on my bumper. I know I was legally obliged to leave my details but even if I hadn't been, I would still have left a note.

It's naive, I know, but I want to believe that others are honest too and wouldn't take advantage of a situation to claim more money.
It makes you think that way.

In the Close where I live next to the school there has been now 5 cases of serious damage to residents cars, one of them mine, In just two years.

Aside of those, every single residents cars at some point has been dinged or minor denting.

Every single one of those was a hit and run. Three od the most serious cases were only prosecuted due to vigilant neighbours who took registration numbers as they fled the scene.

The woman who was a Grandmother picking up kids from school who reversed Into my car, was stopped leaving the scene by my husband. She refused to hand over Insurence details and when he whipped his mobile out to photograph her reg number, she assaulted him and then drove off. She even snatched his phone out of his hand and that was later found In the next road. I am pleased to say that the police got her and prosecuted but the arresting officer was gutted that because we live In a private road, the traffic act does not apply so he couldn't have her for leaving the scene of an accident.

I wouldn't feel bad about thinking you should not have reported It Theia, most people don't.

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:27 am

spot;1370857 wrote: If you have one of those phones that takes photos you could put the detailed invoice main text onto the thread when it arrives.

Good idea, spot, I will.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:30 am

You could just pay up, and then key the whole length of the car a week or two later.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:55 am

Bruv;1370861 wrote: You could just pay up, and then key the whole length of the car a week or two later.

Dump some sardines inside too.

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:03 pm

Bruv;1370861 wrote: You could just pay up, and then key the whole length of the car a week or two later.

Which sets my mind aboggling at how at how I would be treated by the local press if I did and was caught...

"Local woman, 62, carries out vengeful attack on neighbour's car" (Reporter knows neighbour's mother)

"OAP's disgraceful treatment by neighbour's mother leads to OAP's conviction" (Reporter does not like neighbour's mother)

"NHS worker wreaks havoc on neighbour's mother's car" (Reporter unhappy with recent NHS treatment)

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:12 pm

I know that car dealerships here charge ridiculous amounts of money for similar minor repairs. It's also a great business because a very large number of people doesn't know a good mechanic, let alone if they trust them.

A year and a half is very long. Not quite as long, however, as one's level of embarrassment if they're forced to confess their inability to cover the damages.

The damages should have been assessed and paid for up front by the person responsible, but not only that should have taken every initiative to make sure it was done.

(Sorry, I probably sound like an *** but that's just how I feel - It's a huge inconvenience for many)

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:15 pm

K.Snyder;1370871 wrote: (Sorry, I probably sound like an *** but that's just how I feel - It's a huge inconvenience for many)

Although I will say, in my defense, that I'm the type of person that would let the incident go sighting "No big deal, accidents happen".

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:30 pm

K.Snyder;1370871 wrote: I know that car dealerships here charge ridiculous amounts of money for similar minor repairs. It's also a great business because a very large number of people doesn't know a good mechanic, let alone if they trust them.

A year and a half is very long. Not quite as long, however, as one's level of embarrassment if they're forced to confess their inability to cover the damages.

The damages should have been assessed and paid for up front by the person responsible, but not only that should have taken every initiative to make sure it was done.

(Sorry, I probably sound like an *** but that's just how I feel - It's a huge inconvenience for many)

I'm interested to know what you would have done in my situation. As I pointed out above, I asked her several times about the repairs and she said she was going to sort it out. What more could I have done?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:01 pm

Nothing more, if it is a minor repair it's probably not worth losing your no claims discount over. What else could you do but ask for the details?

£340 + 17.5% VAT is £399.50, +20% is £408. At the very least you perhaps shouldn't agree to pay the extra VAT since the increase is her fault. Tell her that's more than you expected and you are going to have to notify your insurance company in the meantime and could you have her insurance details please. You can notify them but you can decide to settle yourself and not actually make a claim. If she doesn't have insurance that will be the last you hear from her. You also need a copy of the full invoice before you pay anything at all. Before getting it repaired she should have agreed with you the actual damage caused. Does the car actually look any different? What was repaired that is a big bill for a minor dent

I got hit from behind at a give way sign, No visible damage to mine but the tow ball went through his radiator but since he had hit my tow-bar I wanted to be sure there had been no damage at the attachment points. There wasn't but the mechanic suggested he could put through for a new new bumper and just keep the money with a small gratuity for him. Needless to say I didn't but that's why you need a copy of the invoice to make sure work was actually done, if any has been.

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:16 pm

gmc;1370878 wrote: Nothing more, if it is a minor repair it's probably not worth losing your no claims discount over. What else could you do but ask for the details?

£340 + 17.5% VAT is £399.50, +20% is £408. At the very least you perhaps shouldn't agree to pay the extra VAT since the increase is her fault. Tell her that's more than you expected and you are going to have to notify your insurance company in the meantime and could you have her insurance details please. You can notify them but you can decide to settle yourself and not actually make a claim. If she doesn't have insurance that will be the last you hear from her. You also need a copy of the full invoice before you pay anything at all. Before getting it repaired she should have agreed with you the actual damage caused. Does the car actually look any different? What was repaired that is a big bill for a minor dent

I got hit from behind at a give way sign, No visible damage to mine but the tow ball went through his radiator but since he had hit my tow-bar I wanted to be sure there had been no damage at the attachment points. There wasn't but the mechanic suggested he could put through for a new new bumper and just keep the money with a small gratuity for him. Needless to say I didn't but that's why you need a copy of the invoice to make sure work was actually done, if any has been.

Thank you for the advice, gmc...I actually said to her at the time that I wouldn't go through my insurance company but I almost wish I had now. That's a good idea about notifying them though and asking for her details. My daughter and son in law also said that she should have consulted me before getting the repairs done. A similar incident happened to them and the person responsible discussed it with them and they agreed where the repairs should be done etc.

You know I haven't seen that car for a while, she was driving a different car today and I don't remember the last time I saw the other, though I haven't really been looking out for it

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:01 pm

theia;1370883 wrote: Thank you for the advice, gmc...I actually said to her at the time that I wouldn't go through my insurance company but I almost wish I had now. That's a good idea about notifying them though and asking for her details. My daughter and son in law also said that she should have consulted me before getting the repairs done. A similar incident happened to them and the person responsible discussed it with them and they agreed where the repairs should be done etc.

You know I haven't seen that car for a while, she was driving a different car today and I don't remember the last time I saw the other, though I haven't really been looking out for it

Hey, maybe she got a new car, dingged it and used you to have it repaired.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:07 pm

Theia

Too much time has passed - I wouldn't pay any invoice. To be responsible this accident would need to be taken care of ASAP.

She took nearly 2 years - No - not responsible.

Your Insurance Company may tell you the same - and I wouldn't file with them either.

Tell her NO with a smile.

Patsy

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:29 pm

Patsy Warnick;1370893 wrote: Theia

She took nearly 2 years - No - not responsible.

Tell her NO with a smile.

Patsy The last time I looked, 18 months was nowhere near 'nearly 2 years'. It Is a year and a half.

Beside's If It was 2 years, the woman would have no claim here In a court or with the police. Probably why she's got It done now before the 2 year limit expires.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:37 pm

18 months is nearly 2 years OK - I stated nearly....!

The dent should've been taken care of before nearly 2 yrs. had passed.

A lot can happen in NEARLY 2 YEARS from the accident - so I feel Theia would not be responsible.

Thank You Oscar for the clarification on time..

Patsy

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:06 pm

theia;1370804 wrote: Eighteen months ago, I pulled out of my drive and slightly shunted a car that had been parked opposite my drive. It was about 6.45 a.m. as I was on an early shift at the acute hospital where I used to do agency work. I stopped and put a note on the windscreen, with my telephone number. It turned out it was my next door neighbour's mother's car. Several weeks later I asked her if she had had the dent repaired and she said she hadn't but that she would. I asked her several times afterwards and then, as the months went by, I actually forgot all about it. I thought that perhaps she wasn't going to bother with the repair. It certainly wasn't major and her car wasn't dent free anyway.

I just went out to put some things in my car boot and she was visiting her daughter (I've seen her loads of times since the shunt and we always pass the time of day). She said she had had her car repaired and showed me a car repair business card with £340 + VAT on it. I said to her, wow, Daisy (my grandchild) was just a few days old when this happened, I'd forgotten all about it. Then, as I began to get over the shock, I asked her for a detailed receipt of the work that had been done.

I shall pay it of course once I get the detailed account, but the woman didn't even apologise for it taking so long.

Theia? have you ever heard of justifiable homicide?.......it may apply in this situation .

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:21 pm

Patsy Warnick;1370898 wrote: 18 months is nearly 2 years OK - I stated nearly....!

The dent should've been taken care of before nearly 2 yrs. had passed.

A lot can happen in NEARLY 2 YEARS from the accident - so I feel Theia would not be responsible.

Thank You Oscar for the clarification on time..

Patsy

20 or 22 months Is nearly. 18 months Is not.

Happy to help Patsy. Maybe you have a different way of looking at time In the USA. I can understand the confusion.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:27 pm

OSCAR

I don't understand your point here?

In the USA we have 12 months for a year - not 20 or 22.

Please feel free to explain to every one about your 20 - 22 months a year.

Please feel free to explain to every one why your trying sooooo to correct my reply..?

I posted my opinon and I don't need you to correct what I have stated.

Patsy

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:47 pm

You're wasting your time, Pasty. Oscar WILL have the last word.

Post by **spot** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:48 pm

Or nearly so, perhaps.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:56 pm

Snooze

I know - that's the game - We're expecting "The Last Word" syndrome to reply.

So So sad to see. So so childish.

and again she throws another thread.

Why does FG tolerate this conduct?

Patsy

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:00 pm

I suspect spot finds her amusing.

Lady J · Post by **Lady J** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:58 pm

theia...forgive me if my logic does not make sense...but I would think her insurance would cover the damage and then there is just a deductible to pay? If her insurance company denies the bill cuz it is sooooo long in submitting then I think you should too.

If they accept it, then as a kind and thoughtful neighbour just offer to pay the deductible.

I think you did the right thing in leaving the note….after all you are the one who would live with the guilt; even thou small if it would bother you then it is not small atall.

Lady J

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:29 pm

I'd investigate from the repair place, once seeing the invoice, what the extent of the repaired damage was... too bad you don't have photos... then find out what other places charge for the same type of repair so you can be sure that you're not paying over the average. If it could have been fixed cheaper I'd pay the lower of the estimates but not necessarily the cheapest.

Aside from the business side, kudos to you for being honest and if/when you pay it, know that you've got lots of good karma coming back as a result.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:07 am

theia;1370875 wrote: I'm interested to know what you would have done in my situation. As I pointed out above, I asked her several times about the repairs and she said she was going to sort it out. What more could I have done?You'll have to forgive me Theia theia;1370804 wrote: Several weeks later I asked her if she had had the dent repaired and she said she hadn't but that she would. I asked her several times afterwards and then, as the months went by, I actually forgot all about it. I thought that perhaps she wasn't going to bother with the repair. It certainly wasn't major and her car wasn't dent free anyway."Several weeks later I asked her if she had had the dent repaired" is not exactly my idea of "taking the initiative" but in any case asking her or inquiring about her car is what's appropriate yes, just that "several weeks later" is where this issue has taken foothold, regardless.

Don't get me wrong, you did what was appropriate by leaving a note, just that sometimes it's not as black and white as some may see, that's all.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:00 am

Don't know about you but if someone dented my car i would have it repaired as soon as possible and if they're paying and I need to replacement hire car they will pay for that as well. That this woman didn't bother rather suggests she wasn't too fussed about the damage and to come back after 18 months and not present an itemised bill she has a bit of a cheek. Moreover since theia didn't agree to the level of damage to have authorised work without prior agreement is foolish on her part since she has no formal agreement in place. Although theia said she would pay rather than go through her insurance company she's perfectly entitled to change her mind, and most insurance policies will have legal protection in case of dispute but since she didn't notify the company of a potential claim after this length of time there is a possibility they will not want to get involved. The other woman can pursue the claim through her insurance in which case and let the companies fight it out - that's why we pay insurance - but given the length of time they will probably tell her to get lost and that's assuming she has any. Look at your policy terms and conditions you are supposed to inform them of potential claims.

Quite frankly theia has done all she needs to do and more besides, in similar circumstances I would not have reminded the woman more than once. Get an itemised bill and tell the woman to pursue it through her insurance company and get her insurance details to pass on to yours. If she can't give you details or thinks her company won't pay the bill and then pursue you for the amount that's her problem you are being reasonable in the matter, you don't dispute it was your fault the delay in getting it repaired is wholly hers. You are not refusing to pay, not disputing the accident you are just using your insurance company to pay the bill. If she starts harassing you inform the police as attempted extortion is a criminal offences.

Bear in mind if this woman had gone through her insurance company in the first place they would have paid for the repair and the pursued yours for the amount, she wouldn't have lost her no claims discount or anything, it would have been repaired in a timely manner that she didn't and that she never bothered getting it fixed with theia paying suggest to me she was driving with no insurance or the damage was so minor she didn't care about it. People who drive without insurance are not necessarily the brightest light bulb in the box and they also tend to assume everybody else is gullible and not as clever as them.

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:50 am

My thanks to you all for your helpful input. My neighbour's mother dropped in the account today and said that she would cover the VAT because of the time delay. So that's a better outcome than I had expected :-6

Post by **spot** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:32 am

We're agog and holding breath and all sorts - how would you summarise the work done?