Is God Real?

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:09 pm

You can track God through our " Fossil Records." The fossil record reveals a total absence of multicellular life forms in the lower two thirds of the earths crust. This is refered to as the precambrian period. Then, advanced life appears in abundant numbers during the cambrian period. This fossil record indicates life appeared suddenly in tremendous complexity without evolving from any ancestors. And we can trace that directly to a creation.

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:40 pm

Mickiel;1375500 wrote: It was God who created human and animal family life, as seen in Genesis first 3 chapters. This is " Why" we see family life in humans, God simply set it up; as he set up marriage. And this has remained a fundemental reality in human life. So family life, as well as marriage; are proof that God is real.

The bible isn't History so that is not proof

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:41 pm

Mickiel;1375617 wrote: You can track God through our " Fossil Records." The fossil record reveals a total absence of multicellular life forms in the lower two thirds of the earths crust. This is refered to as the precambrian period. Then, advanced life appears in abundant numbers during the cambrian period. This fossil record indicates life appeared suddenly in tremendous complexity without evolving from any ancestors. And we can trace that directly to a creation. That doesn't show a creation just a changing an "evolution"

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:43 pm

Mickiel;1375570 wrote: Why would family life be so obviously developed in our reality? Its obviously " Inbred",?
Like being all the same children of the same two parents right

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:42 pm

You can track God through biblical archaeology, and I encourage you to make a personal study of it. Its findings are nothing short of amazing.

And I refer you to a thread in these archives that I posted on archaeology and the bible.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:47 pm

You can track God by seeing how obvious it is that others are trying to " Cover his tracks." We can understand God more by observing his enemies.

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:39 pm

Mickiel;1375951 wrote: You can track God through biblical archaeology, and I encourage you to make a personal study of it. Its findings are nothing short of amazing.

And I refer you to a thread in these archives that I posted on archaeology and the bible. You can petrify the bible? I got to try this.

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:40 pm

Mickiel;1376205 wrote: We can understand God.
No mortal can understand the/a god(s)

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:25 pm

Mickiel;1376205 wrote: You can track God by seeing how obvious it is that others are trying to " Cover his tracks." We can understand God more by observing his enemies.

Even some science is trying to cover the tracks of God, and science originally came from the church. Its original purpose was to search for the divine, and then it seperated from the church; And most scientific historians would like to cover this fact up.

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:28 pm

Mickiel;1376427 wrote: Even some science is trying to cover the tracks of God, and science originally came from the church. Its original purpose was to search for the divine, and then it seperated from the church; And most scientific historians would like to cover this fact up.
God has no tracks

Mick Fenner · Post by **Mick Fenner** » Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:46 am

Does it matter whether God is something or not, what matters is now and what we do and say now. A faith does not matter because its to difficult to follow and understand with any accuracy. We can discuss any one point within a religous book but I say its impossible to just discuss the whole book. So I can only discuss the word God and then try and decide what it is. I am new on here but look forward to simple to understand words and actions. Kind regards to all.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:32 pm

Mick Fenner;1376870 wrote: Does it matter whether God is something or not, what matters is now and what we do and say now. A faith does not matter because its to difficult to follow and understand with any accuracy. We can discuss any one point within a religous book but I say its impossible to just discuss the whole book. So I can only discuss the word God and then try and decide what it is. I am new on here but look forward to simple to understand words and actions. Kind regards to all.

Well it matters to me because I am " Into understanding what I think matters"; and this question of God being real is the greatest question that I know of.

Anyhow, Peace on wherever your journey leads you.

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:45 am

Mickiel;1377048 wrote: Well it matters to me because I am " Into understanding what I think matters"; and this question of God being real is the greatest question that I know of.

Anyhow, Peace on wherever your journey leads you.

No it doesn't matter and if one was to spend a majority their time trying to prove this to others and/or thierselves one loses the object of the ideals that the GOD wants them to practice at least from every scripture I read (the torah, the bible, the quran, and the sutras of buddhism) all speak of the same "golden rule". If that is golden rule is lost in ones quest to prove their belief on another, and/or to reiterate something they already believe to theirselves over and over, than I think the system that one believes in has to be questioned on its merit esspecially if one continues these actions quoting and using references to scriptures that hold the "golden rule" at a much higher bar as compared to who, what, why, when, or how that "golden rule" came to be.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:52 am

littleCJelkton;1377060 wrote: No it doesn't matter and if one was to spend a majority their time trying to prove this to others and/or thierselves one loses the object of the ideals that the GOD wants them to practice at least from every scripture I read (the torah, the bible, the quran, and the sutras of buddhism) all speak of the same "golden rule". If that is golden rule is lost in ones quest to prove their belief on another, and/or to reiterate something they already believe to theirselves over and over, than I think the system that one believes in has to be questioned on its merit esspecially if one continues these actions quoting and using references to scriptures that hold the "golden rule" at a much higher bar as compared to who, what, why, when, or how that "golden rule" came to be.

Whats it feel like CJ, to keep banging on the wall and not even putting a scratch on it?

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:56 am

Mickiel;1377061 wrote: Whats it feel like CJ, to keep banging on the wall and not even putting a scratch on it?
I don't know you tell me your the one that has to keep proving things to yourself

Mick Fenner · Post by **Mick Fenner** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:19 am

Thanks for return Mickiel. Would you say "God" is easy to understand and if its the greatest question you know of may I ask what the answer is in your eyes and how did you come by it. May I ask if you lead a life according to a God and if so where did or does you knowledge come from to be able to do that. Could an idea or words from me just as easily be followed as say it would be if a God appeared to tell you. Thanks for the words of peace its something we all want but unfortunatly we can all have different ideas what we want to do to bring that peace. Kind Regards

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:18 am

Mick Fenner;1377066 wrote: Thanks for return Mickiel. Would you say "God" is easy to understand and if its the greatest question you know of may I ask what the answer is in your eyes and how did you come by it. May I ask if you lead a life according to a God and if so where did or does you knowledge come from to be able to do that. Could an idea or words from me just as easily be followed as say it would be if a God appeared to tell you. Thanks for the words of peace its something we all want but unfortunatly we can all have different ideas what we want to do to bring that peace. Kind Regards

I don't think God is easy to understand, and I don't live a life according to the biblical standard - far from it. My knowledge comes from the bible, and people could follow your words just as they follow anyones words.

Mick Fenner · Post by **Mick Fenner** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:41 am

Does it matter that a "God" is not easy to understand and does it or should it matter whether the person who follows might be of limited understanding or even the same understanding of a "Gods" words. Does your knowledge with regards a God only come from the Bible or from all known writeings and words of all Gods. It appears in the end you look and listen to all people but in some cases you atribute them to a God. All the best.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:14 am

Mick Fenner;1377080 wrote: Does it matter that a "God" is not easy to understand and does it or should it matter whether the person who follows might be of limited understanding or even the same understanding of a "Gods" words. Does your knowledge with regards a God only come from the Bible or from all known writeings and words of all Gods. It appears in the end you look and listen to all people but in some cases you atribute them to a God. All the best.

It does not matter to me what people believe. That is their priviledge. I believe in one God, and that is my priviledge.

Mick Fenner · Post by **Mick Fenner** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:08 pm

I respect your belief in a God as long as you do not harm to others in anyway because of it and I do believe that is so with you if I am reading your words correctly. So back to the original question as to whether "God" whatever it is is real. I beleive it not to be so in the way people say it is. if there is one or more I can then only assume he/she has decided not to inform me , do I wait for that information or just attempt to read and listen to ALL words spoken by this God/s starting maybe with the sun. Would you say Imagination can and does create a "God". All the best, i wish you well.

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:29 am

God cannot be understood . But God's can make His will known and can gift people with more understanding then they could ever grasp with their own intellects. God gives me what i need to know but of course i want to know and understand much more. One does not need to be SURE that God exists to call out to Him to reveal Himself in some way. One only needs to be open to the possability that God exists. Now if one is convinced in their own mind that God does not exist no amount of discussion or sharing of thoughts will be of any behafit to that one.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Mick Fenner · Post by **Mick Fenner** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:06 am

Hello Adstar. You appear to be makeing excuses for a Gods inability to let him/her self be known with accuracy ie all people knowing the same words of a God. Think of what God is said to have done and then think of what God is not able to do and ask yourself why this is so. At the moment I am convinced there is no God as descibed by humans, has God a way or a means to alter my thoughts now. Why should one need or believe God exists by calling out to him. If I did that and it worked what religion and sect within that religion would he answer me with. After shouting and being answered will he answer each question I put to him without looking a any book said to be his words. Lets look at your last few words "All praise The Ancient of Days", to me they are just confuseing as I know not what they mean where is the meaning of them. Kind regards to you.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:45 am

Mick Fenner;1377086 wrote: I respect your belief in a God as long as you do not harm to others in anyway because of it and I do believe that is so with you if I am reading your words correctly. So back to the original question as to whether "God" whatever it is is real. I beleive it not to be so in the way people say it is. if there is one or more I can then only assume he/she has decided not to inform me , do I wait for that information or just attempt to read and listen to ALL words spoken by this God/s starting maybe with the sun. Would you say Imagination can and does create a "God". All the best, i wish you well.

Well my belief in God is different, it has nothing to do with people, it has only to do with my mind. You don't believe in God because of the way other people say it is, so people have something to do with your unbelief. One thing I would do, is get " People out of the picture" and if your not going to believe, then let it be only because of you. I don't need the support of people in my belief; I walk alone in my belief. Wether you believe or not is soley up to you; I don't tell people what to believe, because I already know it makes no difference what people believe, we all are destined to be with God anyway. In the end, God gets his way, and all humans will submit to that way.

So it does not matter to me what you do. Wether you wait on God, try to understand him, or simply stay in unbelief; it makes no difference to me.

Mick Fenner · Post by **Mick Fenner** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:21 pm

Thanks Micklel and you make some interesting points. You say "if I am not going to believe" so have you any idea why I am not going to believe and how come you do believe. How are you able to say and know we are all destined to be with God and I cannot have an end and know I have ended so death and my end is not part of my life I can only have life and know life just as I know now is what I have. All people have something to do with me because I look listen and learn from people and as I see it when a person talks about a God it is them who I listen to not where they said it came from. God to me is nothing but what people say and do is important where ever that comes from. A person who does something because God said they should is not an argument to me it is an excuse for there actions. If your God gets his way then ask him to explain his way to me and I will discuss with him as I do with you. I enjoy our discusions I hope your God does also does. Kind Regards, I wish you well and enjoyment of your God as you see him.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:38 pm

Mick Fenner;1377163 wrote: Thanks Micklel and you make some interesting points. You say "if I am not going to believe" so have you any idea why I am not going to believe and how come you do believe. How are you able to say and know we are all destined to be with God and I cannot have an end and know I have ended so death and my end is not part of my life I can only have life and know life just as I know now is what I have. All people have something to do with me because I look listen and learn from people and as I see it when a person talks about a God it is them who I listen to not where they said it came from. God to me is nothing but what people say and do is important where ever that comes from. A person who does something because God said they should is not an argument to me it is an excuse for there actions. If your God gets his way then ask him to explain his way to me and I will discuss with him as I do with you. I enjoy our discusions I hope your God does also does. Kind Regards, I wish you well and enjoyment of your God as you see him.

Well thank you, I also wish you well in your unbelief, and your life, however you live it. I cannot ask God to reveal himself to you, I don't know him myself. He does what he does, to whatever mind he does it to; when he wants to do it; and theres nothing any of us can do about that. God already knows that he will have all of us with him, and he willnot bother with explaining that to each of us; not now, not today.

But I think one day he will.

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:10 am

Mick Fenner;1377132 wrote: Hello Adstar. You appear to be makeing excuses for a Gods inability to let him/her self be known with accuracy ie all people knowing the same words of a God.

It is Gods will to allow people who have rejected the love of His Message to be given over to deception. Part of that deception is false religion. So it is not Gods inability at all. All those who are open to embrace His truth will be guided into understanding what they need to understand. Others will be lead on a road to nowhere.

Think of what God is said to have done and then think of what God is not able to do and ask yourself why this is so. At the moment I am convinced there is no God as descibed by humans, has God a way or a means to alter my thoughts now.

Well i don't know your History Mick so i don't know if you are in a state of rejecting the Message of God. God could alter your thoughts by giving you a dream tonight, but the question is Does God want to?

Why should one need or believe God exists by calling out to him.

No i never said that.

I said one needs to be open to the possibility that He exists. Which you seem not to be.

If I did that and it worked what religion and sect within that religion would he answer me with.

Well if He did answer you then He would also see to it that you where guided down the right path. Of course if you are one who is rejecting the love of the truth satan might come to you in a dream as an impostor and lead you where He wants you to go. God knows us all totally and He will save whom He wills to save and give over to deception those He wills not to save.

After shouting and being answered will he answer each question I put to him without looking a any book said to be his words.

Well i can say from a personal perspective that all the messages i have received in dreams from God i have never asked him any questions. God was answering my questions but they where things that where on my mind before i dreamed the dreams. Also God has given me dreams where he has revealed to my things i needed to be repentant for. He has also given me Dreams of the Future both symbolic and actual to reveal to me truth.

Lets look at your last few words "All praise The Ancient of Days", to me they are just confuseing as I know not what they mean where is the meaning of them. Kind regards to you.

The "Ancient of Days" is a title the prophet Daniel used for God when He had a vision of Him in one of His prophetic dream. I like the title so i make the call for all to praise the Ancient Of Days.

Daniel 7

I watched till thrones were put in place,

And the Ancient of Days was seated;

His garment was white as snow,

And the hair of His head was like pure wool.

His throne was a fiery flame,

Its wheels a burning fire;

10 A fiery stream issued

And came forth from before Him.

A thousand thousands ministered to Him;

Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.

The court was seated,

And the books were opened.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:44 am

Is God real? We had better hope he is, or we are left to ourselves and our theorys and conjectures, and we must soulve our own problems. Anybody that thinks this world is headed toward solving our problems, just watch the news closely, worldwide, for the next ten years. Every comming year this world is destined to get worse. Why? Because God set a serious limit to mans rule over himself. We can only go so far, and then no further. The comming future will solidify Gods realness through the suffering of humanitys inability to heal itself.

Mick Fenner · Post by **Mick Fenner** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:31 pm

When did humans start to get left to ourselves with our theorys conjectures and not attempt to solve our problems. Surely this must have been from when we "started". If a God exists then his logic and common sense in trying to help are and were very poor. Just a few people "he/she" spoke to were expected to inform the whole world right from the "start" how to proceed in life.

The comeing future will still be now as now cannot be altered. Please explain what you mean by "Humanity heal its self". Let God solidify his realness to me, then I can ask questions as well as listen. How are we getting worse and why hasnt God also said to me "I have set you a serious limit". I require people in life and all people in some way help me to try and understand and think who the people are is unimportant what they say and do is. God has to me said nore done anything. Your words are religous and often say and mean nothing such as God set, solidify. Why ten years. Kind Regards.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:18 pm

Mick Fenner;1377718 wrote: If a God exists then his logic and common sense in trying to help are and were very poor.

The existence of God is not based on our views of his logic and sense, it is based on facts and realness of those facts. Whats real, is that we humans have logic and common sense- thats real! Where did that come from? Is it real or logical to believe that it came from a magical explosion in a space that appeared out from nowhere, which sprinkled all the chemical componants of life onto a self developing earth? Is that assumption logic and common sense? Does logic and common sense now come from assumed illogical and nonsensical things? Logic and common sense are proofs of God.

Logical thinking didnot crawl out from under a rock that created itself. Logical thinking was born from a logical thinking source. And that is common sense.

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:19 pm

Mickiel;1377724 wrote: The existence of God is not based on our views of his logic and sense, it is based on facts and realness of those facts.

Nope the existence of God is based on the argument of I said, they said, he said, they said, he said, he read, that he wrote down, that he was told that god exists there for it must be right because it is old and has years and years of tradition, of which is the tradition of being passed down, modified, and altered for man to gain power of fellow that is masked as a revelation but comes through second-third-fourth-fith-...,, hand recollection of what actually was said or happened alot of which is neither fact or logic.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:38 pm

littleCJelkton;1377752 wrote: Nope the existence of God is based on the argument of I said, they said, he said, they said, he said, he read, that he wrote down, that he was told that god exists there for it must be right because it is old and has years and years of tradition, of which is the tradition of being passed down, modified, and altered for man to gain power of fellow that is masked as a revelation but comes through second-third-fourth-fith-...,, hand recollection of what actually was said or happened alot of which is neither fact or logic.

Whats it feel like CJ, to keep banging your head on the wall, and not even make a dent in it? Whats it feel like?

Mick Fenner · Post by **Mick Fenner** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:56 am

First to LittleCJelkton, now what you wrote is common sense and a logical way.

Mickiel thanks for return. You answered one line with regards to common sense and one of my reasons for saying your God was illogical and withiout common sense was because he only tokld a few people about himself and if I was able to tell all people the same stories for all times I would ghave so I also say your God created utter confusion in what to believe and what to do. I can only remark on logic and common sense as a human whereas you are doing it as if you were that God. Kind Regards.

Mick Fenner · Post by **Mick Fenner** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:21 am

(It is Gods will to allow people who have rejected the love of His Message to be given over to deception. Part of that deception is false religion. So it is not Gods inability at all. All those who are open to embrace His truth will be guided into understanding what they need to understand. Others will be lead on a road to nowhere.)

So God cannot put those right who are wrong in his eyes then. Truth whatever it is needs to be understood and surely to say I know truth could mean I have stopped looking then the mind is not open for all things to be consifered at all times.

Well i don't know your History Mick so i don't know if you are in a state of rejecting the Message of God. God could alter your thoughts by giving you a dream tonight, but the question is Does God want to?

Do you mean the millions of so called messages of God or just one. So no body knows then what God wants us to know, thats not logical is it.

[QUOTENo i never said that.

I said one needs to be open to the possibility that He exists. Which you seem not to be.

]
Sorry I thought you did. If I wasnt open how does one become open to the possibility. I am open to think and discuss what you and others say. How does God get to those who have never had the chance to there being a God as you know him/her, such as all those different faiths and different Gods plus the differences within each faith.

Well if He did answer you then He would also see to it that you where guided down the right path. Of course if you are one who is rejecting the love of the truth satan might come to you in a dream as an impostor and lead you where He wants you to go. God knows us all totally and He will save whom He wills to save and give over to deception those He wills not to save.

Will you be saved with the knowledge you have about your faith. Please explain what a right path is. Is Satan just as illusive as God and only comes to an odd one or two. Can you tell which person has been visited by this satan not forgetting can you tell if a person has been spoken to by a Giod and if so in each case how.

Well i can say from a personal perspective that all the messages i have received in dreams from God i have never asked him any questions. God was answering my questions but they where things that where on my mind before i dreamed the dreams. Also God has given me dreams where he has revealed to my things i needed to be repentant for. He has also given me Dreams of the Future both symbolic and actual to reveal to me truth.

If God has done this to you in your dreams then surely all knowledge he wishers any person to have he could do so in there dreams. All words and books spoken and written by peoople would not be needed. What if your were not repentant what would happen.

The "Ancient of Days" is a title the prophet Daniel used for God when He had a vision of Him in one of His prophetic dream. I like the title so i make the call for all to praise the Ancient Of Days.

Daniel 7

I watched till thrones were put in place,

And the Ancient of Days was seated;

His garment was white as snow,

And the hair of His head was like pure wool.

His throne was a fiery flame,

Its wheels a burning fire;

10 A fiery stream issued

And came forth from before Him.

A thousand thousands ministered to Him;

Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.

The court was seated,

And the books were opened.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Thanks for the answer above but to me it has no meaning and I fail to see how Danial could have been understood when preaching his words. Millions of people have different levels of understanding due to differences in education and in the power of the brain. Faiths need to and allways have started with young children to brainwash them into there faith and often condem others even to the point of hate.

Kind regards and I wish you well.

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:11 am

Mick Fenner;1377812 wrote: (It is Gods will to allow people who have rejected the love of His Message to be given over to deception. Part of that deception is false religion. So it is not Gods inability at all. All those who are open to embrace His truth will be guided into understanding what they need to understand. Others will be lead on a road to nowhere.)

So God cannot put those right who are wrong in his eyes then. Truth whatever it is needs to be understood and surely to say I know truth could mean I have stopped looking then the mind is not open for all things to be consifered at all times.

It is not about God's Abilities It is about Gods Will. God does not want those who have rejected the love of the truth to have salvation read the following scripture where it is talking about the last days when the lawless one (anti-christ) will come to decieve the world.

2 Thessolonians 2

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

So lawless one will be able to perform all the miracles and tricks the atheists have been demanding to see for years and when he performs them there will be no atheists left because they will all believe in God and believe that the anti-christ is God. They will worship Him as God on earth.

Do you mean the millions of so called messages of God or just one. So no body knows then what God wants us to know, thats not logical is it.

Well there is Just 1 message that is true. When one hears it and rejects it they have just rejected the love of the truth. Does not matter if they believe God exists or not. If One rejects the Message that saves because they think it is stupid or they think it is evil they are doomed. Yes people do know that message and they have embraced it with Joy and deep gratitude.

[QUOTE]No i never said that.

I said one needs to be open to the possibility that He exists. Which you seem not to be.

Sorry I thought you did. If I wasnt open how does one become open to the possibility. I am open to think and discuss what you and others say. How does God get to those who have never had the chance to there being a God as you know him/her, such as all those different faiths and different Gods plus the differences within each faith.

I believe the scriptures show that ones who have never heard the Message will be given the opportunity after death to hear it and decide.

Scriptures state:

1 Peter 3

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

These scriptures are saying that When Jesus was executed He went to the spirits in Hell to give them the Message so that they could be saved. I believe likewise that anyone who does not hear the Message will also receive this opportunity. It is by rejecting That Message that one disqualifies themselves from being Saved. Not because they where unlucky enough not to ever be told it.

Will you be saved with the knowledge you have about your faith.

I have Hope. I believe i am in a state of salvation now. I cannot see how i could ever come to reject the Message that i believe saves me. I guess it is possable for me to reject it one day before i die. But i just cannot see me doing it.

Please explain what a right path is.

God is perfect.

We are not.

To exist in eternity with God one must be perfect.

God cannot justly allow imperfection to exist justly in eternity if He did so He would compromise His standards and thus show himself not to be perfect and not justified to be God. God wants to be justified in the minds of not only Humanity but also the Angels.

While we are not perfect we can still believe in what is good and perfect and believe that what is evil is wrong. So while we are faulty and will do bad things/sin/imperfect doings. We can still feel remorse and regret for our wrongs, we can also desire to be caring and loving, love to help others and be a joyful giver. So ones attitude to evil and good can be independent of ones actual deeds.

When one agrees with God that Good is Good and that evil is evil. One has the right spirit/attitude towards the will of God And by this they show that they a righteous in spirit.

Through acceptance of the Atonement that has been provided for these people by the Messiah Jesus these people can have their imperfection covered and God can justly transform them into eternal perfect beings upon the day of the resurrection.

We cannot perform up to Gods perfect standards but we can agree with Him that His standards are good. while at the same time acknowledging our imperfection and seeking to be forgiven. It is Good/Justice to have mercy on the Repentant and this is all we need to be with God in eternity. Indeed it is the only way we could ever have eternity in a perfect existence.

That’s pretty much the Entire Message of the Bible compressed as much as i can.

Is Satan just as illusive as God and only comes to an odd one or two. Can you tell which person has been visited by this satan not forgetting can you tell if a person has been spoken to by a Giod and if so in each case how.

If a person is spoken to by God the message they are given will not be in conflict with the Message He has given His followers in the scripture. The Word of God is a template to be used to put any message to the test. So i will give two examples of messengers in history who have given messages in rebellion against the Message i have given. Both these men claimed to be visited by an Angel, scripture gives a very serious warning i see it as a prophetical warning as well:

2 Corrinthians 11

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

And again.

Galatians 1

6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

So back to the two examples:

muhammed claimed that he received the quran from an angel.

jospeh smith claimed that he received the book of mormon from an angel.

Both these messages are in rebellion against the Gospel of The Messiah Jesus.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:45 am

[QUOTE=Adstar;1377831

]It is not about God's Abilities It is about Gods Will. God does not want those who have rejected the love of the truth to have salvation read the following scripture where it is talking about the last days when the lawless one (anti-christ) will come to decieve the world.

QUOTE]

I totally disagree with this cold heartless description of Gods wants. God wants ALL humans, espically those who reject him. Those who reject him need him the most. God wants and desires all humans to be saved, 1 Tim. 2:4, and God ALWAYS gets what he wants- Job 23:13, inspite of the condemnation comming out of christian mouths.

Mick Fenner · Post by **Mick Fenner** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:28 pm

For me your words are not makeing this God easy to understand or even want to be associated with. My love of ALL people as a human far outways what you describe your God to be, he has no thought for individuals in how they come to be what they are nore to give help to those who most need it. Allways it appears to add well if you dont know now I will help after your death and give you a second chance. If I may add a point, death does not effect the dead and therefore does not matter.

I was not born nore shall I die. My life is for ever, now is forever. Yesterday is what I think it was tomorrow is what I imagine it will be. Take all names includeing a God/s out of the religous books then we can look at the things said and done and discuss those points. Once you are have a person or a God it is to easy to want to bow down and worship them as if they know all things and often they include fear to help them. Mohammed said this, Jesus said that not forgetting Joseph proves this point. Have you ever thought how difficult faiths are to try and follow in the so called correct way it uis confusion of the first order. Lets look at life and life now its an amazing experiance andf deserves all our attention we are capable of giveing it. Kind regards.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:56 pm

Mick Fenner;1377844 wrote: For me your words are not makeing this God easy to understand or even want to be associated with. My love of ALL people as a human far outways what you describe your God to be, he has no thought for individuals in how they come to be what they are nore to give help to those who most need it. Allways it appears to add well if you dont know now I will help after your death and give you a second chance. If I may add a point, death does not effect the dead and therefore does not matter. .

I hold no desire to get others to associate with God, that is Gods business, not mine. Gods Love of humans far outweighs yours, thats for sure. Because you see, you didnot create humans, and you cannot give all humans the future God will give every human created. Humans don't need a second chance, the God I believe in has already garenteed all humans eternal life with him. Death is meaningless to God, and our opinions about him are just as meaningless to him.

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:07 pm

Mickiel;1377835 wrote:

I totally disagree with this cold heartless description of Gods wants. God wants ALL humans, espically those who reject him. Those who reject him need him the most. God wants and desires all humans to be saved, 1 Tim. 2:4, and God ALWAYS gets what he wants- Job 23:13, inspite of the condemnation comming out of christian mouths.

I totally disagree with any of the descriptions of god by man/woman in the Bible, Quran, Torah and otherwise because how can any man/woman describe god and since those books are wrote/modified/told by man not god they can not be an accurate account of anything that has to do with god, though since they have something to do with the history of man and mimic to the best of man's ability their interpretation of God those who are fooled by mimics are led to believe the men who told those stories, heard those stories, wrote those stories, read those stories and are god themselves. Where as those of us that are not fooled by these men's ability to mimic god are cast out by those who are brainwashed in to believing a select group of people are deemed condemed, infidels, and some of those who are fooled even go as far to say the people who aren't fooled by the same group of people as Us do not deserve to live.

Since Mickiel is a human nothing Mickel says is God's word, a description of God, or any account of God in any matter. This "proof of God" can not be given on what another human says about the existence, the word, or the description of a God, no matter how old or new that that human's words are. Finding out what human's can prove is the definition of what science is and what we can prove can be many things. Religion on the other hand is a human's use of knowledge (both logical and fact base and fantastical and whimsical) to try to prove one thing "that god exist" which I believe is something a human(s) can't do.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:24 pm

littleCJelkton;1377850 wrote: Since Mickiel is a human nothing Mickel says is God's word, a description of God, or any account of God in any matter. This "proof of God" can not be given on what another human says about the existence, the word, or the description of a God, no matter how old or new that that human's words are. Finding out what human's can prove is the definition of what science is and what we can prove can be many things. Religion on the other hand is a human's use of knowledge (both logical and fact base and fantastical and whimsical) to try to prove one thing "that god exist" which I believe is something a human(s) can't do.

Science came from religion, it was birthed in the church. Its not belief in God that science developed a problem with, the root of science was a search for the divine, Science developed a problem with the church. Both science and the church were religious, the rivalry between these two giants was that they were fumming over the same ground; both proclaimed to be the only way to divine revelation. It was a competition that first came into absolute focus in 1633 with the late renaissance and the imprisonment of Galileo. The church felt that we obtain divine revelation through apostolic succession, science felt that we can find it through searching the heavens of our own experience right now in the objective world without any priestly intercession; the result of that fude was the birth of the scientific revolution.

And all of this started in the church, with both the church and science dedicated to a search for the divine.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:50 pm

littleCJelkton;1377850 wrote:

Since Mickiel is a human nothing Mickel says is God's word, a description of God, or any account of God in any matter. This "proof of God" can not be given on what another human says about the existence, the word, or the description of a God, no matter how old or new that that human's words are. Finding out what human's can prove is the definition of what science is and what we can prove can be many things. Religion on the other hand is a human's use of knowledge (both logical and fact base and fantastical and whimsical) to try to prove one thing "that god exist" which I believe is something a human(s) can't do.

Gods word speaks for itself and needs no speaker other than Christ. But I must say CJ, I am encouraged to see that you can wake up in the middle of a 6 month debate and speak with reason without sarcasm and insults. Cudos to you before you go back to sleep and snore sarcasm.

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:15 pm

Mickiel;1377858 wrote: Gods word speaks for itself and needs no speaker other than Christ. But I must say CJ, I am encouraged to see that you can wake up in the middle of a 6 month debate and speak with reason without sarcasm and insults. Cudos to you before you go back to sleep and snore sarcasm.

God has never spoken for itself always others have spoken for it you yourself are trying to speak for god and use the fact that your speaking for god as proof god . Proof does not work that way if a person were to speak of the advantages of murder for the sake of limiting human surplus population that is not proof that everyone should believe murder is a good thing. I am only sarcastic/insulting when given information that is factless mythology that I am told is fact, being told a lie is a truth to me is a sarcastic insult.

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:33 am

Mickiel;1377835 wrote: [QUOTE=Adstar;1377831

]It is not about God's Abilities It is about Gods Will. God does not want those who have rejected the love of the truth to have salvation read the following scripture where it is talking about the last days when the lawless one (anti-christ) will come to decieve the world.

QUOTE]

I totally disagree with this cold heartless description of Gods wants. God wants ALL humans, espically those who reject him. Those who reject him need him the most. God wants and desires all humans to be saved, 1 Tim. 2:4, and God ALWAYS gets what he wants- Job 23:13, inspite of the condemnation comming out of christian mouths.

So you are a universalist? Because if God wants all to be saved and you believe God gets what He wants then you have to believe everyone is going to be saved.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:37 am

Mick Fenner;1377844 wrote: For me your words are not makeing this God easy to understand or even want to be associated with. My love of ALL people as a human far outways what you describe your God to be, he has no thought for individuals in how they come to be what they are nore to give help to those who most need it. Allways it appears to add well if you dont know now I will help after your death and give you a second chance. If I may add a point, death does not effect the dead and therefore does not matter.

I was not born nore shall I die. My life is for ever, now is forever. Yesterday is what I think it was tomorrow is what I imagine it will be. Take all names includeing a God/s out of the religous books then we can look at the things said and done and discuss those points. Once you are have a person or a God it is to easy to want to bow down and worship them as if they know all things and often they include fear to help them. Mohammed said this, Jesus said that not forgetting Joseph proves this point. Have you ever thought how difficult faiths are to try and follow in the so called correct way it uis confusion of the first order. Lets look at life and life now its an amazing experiance andf deserves all our attention we are capable of giveing it. Kind regards.

Well i get only vagueness from this reply. Sounds a bit new age to me. Anyway if you don't wish to reply to my points so be it.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Mick Fenner · Post by **Mick Fenner** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:34 am

Hi Adstar. I am sorry you only get vagueness from my reply, and will if you wish take each centence/paragraph rewrite it and explain my meaning of it hopefully with more clarity. I do wish to reply and have not said differently as my replies are in answer to what your God appears to me to be and what I would do or feel about certain things like death. I am not new age and dont know what it means, I have life and that is something you and I have now.

All the best and kind regards I wish you well.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:03 am

Adstar;1377910 wrote: [QUOTE=Mickiel;1377835]

So you are a universalist? Because if God wants all to be saved and you believe God gets what He wants then you have to believe everyone is going to be saved.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I am not a universalist, I do not belong to any group, I walk alone in my belief. But I agree with the universalist who believe in universal salvation.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:56 am

Is God Real? Well if you look at planet earth, all the conditions to substain human life are in place; Why is that? Everything we need, is here- and nowherelse that we are aware of. You know what, that right there is proof of God; plain and simple. The earth was " Deliberately designed for us."

Mick Fenner · Post by **Mick Fenner** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:24 pm

Mickiel;1378230 wrote: Is God Real? Well if you look at planet earth, all the conditions to substain human life are in place; Why is that? Everything we need, is here- and nowherelse that we are aware of. You know what, that right there is proof of God; plain and simple. The earth was " Deliberately designed for us."

Which God do you think it is. Which words that are said to be Gods are true. If there is a God does it matter. Why would God need a Jesus, why some Angels, why a Heaven and Hell. Surely a God who made and designed everything could have made and designed us as he wanted to. If he/she decided to end this world who would know it had ended. There cannot be a begining or end of humans and we know about it. Now I ask you to think what God has done, could do for people and then ask youself why he doesnt and if you dont know why dont you know cant God tell you. If you kniow what you said is true could it be you are not looking any further for truth. All the best.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:24 pm

Is God real? Remember " Deliberately done." Its proof of a thing. If you walk down a street and find a quarter on the ground- you may think someone dropped it; then you continue walking and find 4 quarters on the ground, you may think somebody has a hole in their pocket. But if you continue walking and find 100 quarters on the ground, all perfectly balanced on their sides, now you would think that this has been " Deliberately done." The earths design was deliberately done.

Mick Fenner · Post by **Mick Fenner** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:49 am

Mickiel;1378256 wrote: Is God real? Remember " Deliberately done." Its proof of a thing. If you walk down a street and find a quarter on the ground- you may think someone dropped it; then you continue walking and find 4 quarters on the ground, you may think somebody has a hole in their pocket. But if you continue walking and find 100 quarters on the ground, all perfectly balanced on their sides, now you would think that this has been " Deliberately done." The earths design was deliberately done.

I can except that there may be something that some would call a God as in "deliberately done" allthough it appears there is no proof of this but there does appear to be some measure of proof that things have evolved from whenever the universe started and are still doing so. If designed for us then why just us or please say what you mean by "us".

Does it matter right now if there is such a God as in what is to gain by that knowledge. How does it affect me as I sit in front of this computer with no sight or sound of a God. You are helping me to think and discuss therefore you are helping my life right now just as thousands of other humans help me and which I appreciate it very much. My previous post also asked you about this God if you care to, I think it extends the subject of a God as to what it rearly is if it is. Maybe that is off the original track.

All the best and thanks for the return.

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:19 am

Mickiel;1377924 wrote: [QUOTE=Adstar;1377910]

I am not a universalist, I do not belong to any group, I walk alone in my belief. But I agree with the universalist who believe in universal salvation.

Ok so you have developed your own religion. You have simply used the Christianity as a smorgasbord picking and choosing the things that are palatable for you, But rejecting the things you cannot stomach.

It is good that everyone is now clear on this.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days