I have mentioned in previous posts about Cultural Differences and here is another one. I don't experience this "Tall Poppy Syndrome" in the US. I do see evidence of it on this Forum from time to time.
What are your thoughts about this malady?
The following was written by a New Zealander (Kiwi)
Love thy neighbour?
Kiwis are by their very nature imbued with a pioneering spirit of self-reliance, hard work, and the desire to achieve a better life for one’s self and family.
And only when, after years of toil, tenacity and luck, these colonial dreams are finally realised, can Kiwis look forward to spending the rest of their life defending their success against the pitchfork-weilding angry mob of their fellow countrymen, whose own ambitions – for reasons of either circumstance, laziness, or misfortune – have been snipped a little lower down the stem.
This thinly-veiled, pack anger at the few bright stars who are able to poke their heads above the parapet of New Zealand’s otherwise level-playing-field, egalitarian society, is known as Tall Poppy Syndrome. And we practically invented it.
It should not, however, be confused with Tall Puppy Syndrome (Fido Horribilus), which is the canine abberation graphically illustrated in The Hound of The Baskervilles.
Some argue that Tall Poppy Syndrome is not in fact broad resentment at other people’s success, but is rather a levelling social attitude, designed to deflate the pretensions of those who take themselves too seriously, or flaunt their success without due humility. But, since I mostly cut & paste that last sentence from Wikipedia to pad out this article, I’m going to dismiss this theory as bullshit.
And although a similar attitude does exist in other parts of the world, they do tend to be whiny, underdog countries like Scotland and Netherlands, which is a particularly dour bag to be lumped in at the best of times.
It would appear, however, that the people of more cock-sure countries where the leaders have larger balls – Heads of State with bulging, football-sized scrotums, like President Obama of the USA, Gordon Brown of England or Angela Merkel of Germany – are comfortable with the success of their fellow citizens. If anything, it motivates the fulfillment of their own personal goals, and is even described in more positive terms like Keeping Up With The Jones’, which sounds more like a light-hearted off-Broadway play, than a fake pseudo-medical condition.
So, until such time as New Zealand has the confidence to either a) build a global colonial empire and impenetrable class system, b) start two world wars and a holocaust, or c) get rich through slavery, it appears Kiwis have just learned to accept that even the relatively modest economic, sporting or artistic successes possible in a country of this size,* inevitably comes with the baggage of a lifetime of being labelled ‘a bit of a try-hard‘.* Either that, or, like 999 other Kiwis every week, they go somewhere where it doesn’t.
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The Tall Poppy Syndrome
The Tall Poppy Syndrome
posted by LON
Some argue that Tall Poppy Syndrome is not in fact broad resentment at other people’s success, but is rather a levelling social attitude, designed to deflate the pretensions of those who take themselves too seriously, or flaunt their success without due humility. But, since I mostly cut & paste that last sentence from Wikipedia to pad out this article, I’m going to dismiss this theory as bullshit.
Actually i would disagree with you there. Since many of the new Zealanders are of scots and irish descent they share a common celtic heritage with a fairly strong egalitarian streak in them and yes there is an intolerance of anybody who thinks they are better than everybody else for what ever reason. We're all jock tamson's bairns after all. I know people who just cannot understand the egalitarian sentiments contained in the robert burns poem a man's a man for a that others that have a visceral reaction and get it straight away although you do see politicians and the like who pretend to share the sentiment.
BBC - Robert Burns - A Man's a Man for A' That
Especially these lines
But an honest man's abon his might,
Gude faith, he maunna fa' that!
For a' that, an' a' that,
Their dignities an' a' that;
The pith o' sense, an' pride o' worth,
Are higher rank than a' that.
It's a sense you are the equal of any man that you either have or you don't. I've had discussions with people about it - we can't all be equal, some are born to lead some are more intelligent some people's lives are worth more than others etc etc - they kind of miss the point and you can't explain it to them. People don't envy the tall poppy they just don't appreciate it when it thinks it's height makes it somehow better than the rest of the field.
posted by lon
And although a similar attitude does exist in other parts of the world, they do tend to be whiny, underdog countries like Scotland and Netherlands, which is a particularly dour bag to be lumped in at the best of times.
Sorry lon but were you to say that to a Scotsman's face they would probably burst out laughing. You're not scots and never will be we're used to envy and people wishing they were scots. So the next time you sit down to watch television, go to the hospital and get an anti-biotic or get in your car and turn on an engine powered by gasoline or use anything connected to the oil industry thank the scots and take solace in the fact that you gave one a good laugh when he read that. Don't worry about the Dutch being offended they don't give a **** either they'd rather smoke it (Correct me if I'm wrong but I gather **** is a synonym for cannabis in america?)
It would appear, however, that the people of more cock-sure countries where the leaders have larger balls – Heads of State with bulging, football-sized scrotums, like President Obama of the USA, Gordon Brown of England or Angela Merkel of Germany – are comfortable with the success of their fellow citizens. If anything, it motivates the fulfillment of their own personal goals, and is even described in more positive terms like Keeping Up With The Jones’, which sounds more like a light-hearted off-Broadway play, than a fake pseudo-medical condition.
Gordon Brown of England :-5:-5 It shames me to inform you that gordon brown is scots, from the same town as Adam Smith as it happens though I think smith would be ashamed at the association. He's an arsehole of the first order and a disgrace to the nation and that's not tall poppy syndrome speaking. He is without the biggest numpty in scotland.
I doubt very much the kiwis worry too much about what other people think.
Some argue that Tall Poppy Syndrome is not in fact broad resentment at other people’s success, but is rather a levelling social attitude, designed to deflate the pretensions of those who take themselves too seriously, or flaunt their success without due humility. But, since I mostly cut & paste that last sentence from Wikipedia to pad out this article, I’m going to dismiss this theory as bullshit.
Actually i would disagree with you there. Since many of the new Zealanders are of scots and irish descent they share a common celtic heritage with a fairly strong egalitarian streak in them and yes there is an intolerance of anybody who thinks they are better than everybody else for what ever reason. We're all jock tamson's bairns after all. I know people who just cannot understand the egalitarian sentiments contained in the robert burns poem a man's a man for a that others that have a visceral reaction and get it straight away although you do see politicians and the like who pretend to share the sentiment.
BBC - Robert Burns - A Man's a Man for A' That
Especially these lines
But an honest man's abon his might,
Gude faith, he maunna fa' that!
For a' that, an' a' that,
Their dignities an' a' that;
The pith o' sense, an' pride o' worth,
Are higher rank than a' that.
It's a sense you are the equal of any man that you either have or you don't. I've had discussions with people about it - we can't all be equal, some are born to lead some are more intelligent some people's lives are worth more than others etc etc - they kind of miss the point and you can't explain it to them. People don't envy the tall poppy they just don't appreciate it when it thinks it's height makes it somehow better than the rest of the field.
posted by lon
And although a similar attitude does exist in other parts of the world, they do tend to be whiny, underdog countries like Scotland and Netherlands, which is a particularly dour bag to be lumped in at the best of times.
Sorry lon but were you to say that to a Scotsman's face they would probably burst out laughing. You're not scots and never will be we're used to envy and people wishing they were scots. So the next time you sit down to watch television, go to the hospital and get an anti-biotic or get in your car and turn on an engine powered by gasoline or use anything connected to the oil industry thank the scots and take solace in the fact that you gave one a good laugh when he read that. Don't worry about the Dutch being offended they don't give a **** either they'd rather smoke it (Correct me if I'm wrong but I gather **** is a synonym for cannabis in america?)
It would appear, however, that the people of more cock-sure countries where the leaders have larger balls – Heads of State with bulging, football-sized scrotums, like President Obama of the USA, Gordon Brown of England or Angela Merkel of Germany – are comfortable with the success of their fellow citizens. If anything, it motivates the fulfillment of their own personal goals, and is even described in more positive terms like Keeping Up With The Jones’, which sounds more like a light-hearted off-Broadway play, than a fake pseudo-medical condition.
Gordon Brown of England :-5:-5 It shames me to inform you that gordon brown is scots, from the same town as Adam Smith as it happens though I think smith would be ashamed at the association. He's an arsehole of the first order and a disgrace to the nation and that's not tall poppy syndrome speaking. He is without the biggest numpty in scotland.
I doubt very much the kiwis worry too much about what other people think.
The Tall Poppy Syndrome
The lengthy part of my initial post GMC is not from me but was cut and pasted from a article written by a Kiwi. I should have clarified that, Sorry.
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The Tall Poppy Syndrome
Whew! I misread it too. Then winced and crept quietly out of the thread hoping nobody noticed.
I do think national presses forget sometimes people of other nationalities are reading their output these days. Other times they are trying to wind up to as many of their intended targets as possible. Especially during Ashes series.
...this article wasn't basically about All Black Rugby and the rest of the rugby world's attitude to it, by any chance?
I do think national presses forget sometimes people of other nationalities are reading their output these days. Other times they are trying to wind up to as many of their intended targets as possible. Especially during Ashes series.
...this article wasn't basically about All Black Rugby and the rest of the rugby world's attitude to it, by any chance?
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
The Tall Poppy Syndrome
Poor all blacks, so afraid they have to ban the bagpipes.
New Zealand Rugby - The Haka vs Scotland - YouTube
posted by lon
The lengthy part of my initial post GMC is not from me but was cut and pasted from a article written by a Kiwi. I should have clarified that, Sorry.
It's an interesting conversation and one I have had on several occasions. David Beckham tends to get respect imo as he comes across as being quite modest and not arrogant for all his talent and success, on the other hand some other footballers are viewed with contempt because of their attitude, it's not as simple as envy of another's success.
On the other hand there is a bit of pulling people down that is also rather negative in some people but it's not as simple as envy and resentment at ones own failures
although it's easy to pretend it is. You never see doctors, scientists, engineers and the like being victims of tall poppy syndrome.
New Zealand Rugby - The Haka vs Scotland - YouTube
posted by lon
The lengthy part of my initial post GMC is not from me but was cut and pasted from a article written by a Kiwi. I should have clarified that, Sorry.
It's an interesting conversation and one I have had on several occasions. David Beckham tends to get respect imo as he comes across as being quite modest and not arrogant for all his talent and success, on the other hand some other footballers are viewed with contempt because of their attitude, it's not as simple as envy of another's success.
On the other hand there is a bit of pulling people down that is also rather negative in some people but it's not as simple as envy and resentment at ones own failures
although it's easy to pretend it is. You never see doctors, scientists, engineers and the like being victims of tall poppy syndrome.