Around the late 1940's and early 1950's I was young teenager and became aware that some males when gathered together used profanity quite readily but generally not around females. Fu-k, s--t, s.o.b., coc-su--er, as-hol-, and a host of other profanities were commonly used. There was one word that hardly ever was used by caucasians in those years but was quite readily used among Blacks, and that is mother---ker. Radio, films and TV in the U.S. *did not allow most profanity. At some point things changed and I was amazed when going to see a film that many of these previously banned profanities were now used in films. Frankly, I don't object when I know that the people depicted in the film would probably speak that way in certain situations. It lends credibility to the film or show. I do cringe when profanity is used simply to shock the listener.
I watched a rented video last night of a film that I had previously seen in the U.S. *featuring big name actors and what a huge difference in the spoken audio version between the two countries. New Zealand being much more liberal and I would imagine the UK would be the same. Even the use of the dreaded mother----er was used by one of the big stars.
My favorite comedian ( recently dead) George Carlin has several good gigs wherein he covers every profanity you have ever heard or read.
The increasing use of profanity doesn't bother me, after all they are just words.*
Do you have any thoughts on this subject?
The Increasing Use of Profanity
The Increasing Use of Profanity
I don't really mind it when it fits in the particular environment of the plot, but I find it very irritating when the script is riddled with the language.
HBO did a series a while back that seemed the whole script was written around finding opportunities to say "F^ck"
It was quite distracting to whatever was going on.
HBO did a series a while back that seemed the whole script was written around finding opportunities to say "F^ck"
It was quite distracting to whatever was going on.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
The Increasing Use of Profanity
I'm sort of a fan of uncensoring words. Words are a means of conveying experience. One person might say "holy crap!" while another says "what the ****??" If you have a wtf character and have to make him say crap... it's not true. If someone is ****ing with someone else they usually aren't just messing with them. If someone is a mother****er, they're a little more than an *******.
I don't know about you, but I'd rather be able to explain whether you need to beware of a jerk or a mother****er. There is a legitimate difference.
I don't know about you, but I'd rather be able to explain whether you need to beware of a jerk or a mother****er. There is a legitimate difference.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
I don't know about you, but I'd rather be able to explain whether you need to beware of a jerk or a mother****er. There is a legitimate difference.
No question about it----- I agree.
No question about it----- I agree.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
In some circles profanity is used almost verbal punctuation and doesn't mean that much. It also just takes one person habitually swearing to start a trend, by the same token one person not swearing can have the same effect depending on how influential they are in the group. The funniest ones are when they don't quite use the full word as if that makes it better - my first job in a warehouse I though effing was a make of fork lift for the first hour or so before the penny dropped. Teenagers use it because they think it makes then sound grown up or because they think it will intimidate
One thing i find strikes an odd note is in american dramas like CSI etc when the actors playing their part don't use the basic courtesies - they seem verty rude to each other - hand me that rather than hand me that please, no one says thank you and the relationships between the ranks seems to be strictly hierarchical, I would. expect a manager to be civil rather than just order people around and get their backs up.
There used to be stricter censorship on tv and films, glad there isn't now after all I can watch something else and i don't need some moral guardian looking after me and deciding what is right and proper on my behalf. I never quite get parents who complain about their children watching unsuitable programmes - after all they have control of the off button do they not?
One thing i find strikes an odd note is in american dramas like CSI etc when the actors playing their part don't use the basic courtesies - they seem verty rude to each other - hand me that rather than hand me that please, no one says thank you and the relationships between the ranks seems to be strictly hierarchical, I would. expect a manager to be civil rather than just order people around and get their backs up.
There used to be stricter censorship on tv and films, glad there isn't now after all I can watch something else and i don't need some moral guardian looking after me and deciding what is right and proper on my behalf. I never quite get parents who complain about their children watching unsuitable programmes - after all they have control of the off button do they not?
The Increasing Use of Profanity
LarsMac;1382218 wrote: I don't really mind it when it fits in the particular environment of the plot, but I find it very irritating when the script is riddled with the language.
HBO did a series a while back that seemed the whole script was written around finding opportunities to say "F^ck"
It was quite distracting to whatever was going on.
Have you watched Deadwood? Lots of c*ck sucker thrown around on the show but the writing it sheer poetry.
HBO did a series a while back that seemed the whole script was written around finding opportunities to say "F^ck"
It was quite distracting to whatever was going on.
Have you watched Deadwood? Lots of c*ck sucker thrown around on the show but the writing it sheer poetry.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Let me be the dissenting character then............or a contrary SOB whatever you like to call it.
I can and do swear with the best, or worst, but there is a time and a place for everything.
If you are viewing an adult film, fair enough, but there is a slow decline in the use in entertainment of all profanities, none are off limits.
The final frontier was * see you next tuesday* after the dreaded eff word, I have heard that on TV recently too.
Why is it OK to use certain swear words and not others ?
And is N*gger acceptable ? If not why not ?
Seems like we are all a bit too laid back these days.
I can and do swear with the best, or worst, but there is a time and a place for everything.
If you are viewing an adult film, fair enough, but there is a slow decline in the use in entertainment of all profanities, none are off limits.
The final frontier was * see you next tuesday* after the dreaded eff word, I have heard that on TV recently too.
Why is it OK to use certain swear words and not others ?
And is N*gger acceptable ? If not why not ?
Seems like we are all a bit too laid back these days.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Lon;1382216 wrote: Around the late 1940's and early 1950's I was young teenager and became aware that some males when gathered together used profanity quite readily but generally not around females. Fu-k, s--t, s.o.b., coc-su--er, as-hol-, and a host of other profanities were commonly used. There was one word that hardly ever was used by caucasians in those years but was quite readily used among Blacks, and that is mother---ker. Radio, films and TV in the U.S. *did not allow most profanity. At some point things changed and I was amazed when going to see a film that many of these previously banned profanities were now used in films. Frankly, I don't object when I know that the people depicted in the film would probably speak that way in certain situations. It lends credibility to the film or show. I do cringe when profanity is used simply to shock the listener.
I watched a rented video last night of a film that I had previously seen in the U.S. *featuring big name actors and what a huge difference in the spoken audio version between the two countries. New Zealand being much more liberal and I would imagine the UK would be the same. Even the use of the dreaded mother----er was used by one of the big stars.
My favorite comedian ( recently dead) George Carlin has several good gigs wherein he covers every profanity you have ever heard or read.
The increasing use of profanity doesn't bother me, after all they are just words.*
Do you have any thoughts on this subject?
I have a huge problem with profanity.....as I recently expressed in my thread about a woman I witnessed who was saying horrible things to her child who was no more than 8 or 9. It bothered me for a long time because not only did her children witness this.....there was a younger brother there too...but my 5 year old was in hearing distance as well as this was in a public place.
I watched a rented video last night of a film that I had previously seen in the U.S. *featuring big name actors and what a huge difference in the spoken audio version between the two countries. New Zealand being much more liberal and I would imagine the UK would be the same. Even the use of the dreaded mother----er was used by one of the big stars.
My favorite comedian ( recently dead) George Carlin has several good gigs wherein he covers every profanity you have ever heard or read.
The increasing use of profanity doesn't bother me, after all they are just words.*
Do you have any thoughts on this subject?
I have a huge problem with profanity.....as I recently expressed in my thread about a woman I witnessed who was saying horrible things to her child who was no more than 8 or 9. It bothered me for a long time because not only did her children witness this.....there was a younger brother there too...but my 5 year old was in hearing distance as well as this was in a public place.
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The Increasing Use of Profanity
It saddens me to hear so many teenagers even children use that language In Britain.
With teenagers there Is a certain amount of peer pressure and bravado as they think It makes them sound tough.
With me, I think the use of profanity depends on the company you are In.
When It deeply offends me, Is when some-one uses It without knowing the person they are In company with and weather they are likely to be offended. It's that lack of respect for another being that hacks me off.
Just because some-one uses profanities at home without their family paying any attention doesn't mean they need use It with the same care free abandon In public.
I swear at home... I think we all do at times but I would not swear In public, on a bus etc or near children unless some-one swear at me.
In fact, I was really surprised at my husband a couple of years ago when he was giving evidence for the defence In my trial. He was under oath and the defence lawyer asked him what the alleged victim said to him. My husband said he was not repeating It because there were ladies present. The public gallery had some elderly lady war service veterans In It. He was asked again and was told he needed to repeat It for the judge. My husband said It was something he could not do In front of ladies and refused.... I was really proud of him....
With teenagers there Is a certain amount of peer pressure and bravado as they think It makes them sound tough.
With me, I think the use of profanity depends on the company you are In.
When It deeply offends me, Is when some-one uses It without knowing the person they are In company with and weather they are likely to be offended. It's that lack of respect for another being that hacks me off.
Just because some-one uses profanities at home without their family paying any attention doesn't mean they need use It with the same care free abandon In public.
I swear at home... I think we all do at times but I would not swear In public, on a bus etc or near children unless some-one swear at me.
In fact, I was really surprised at my husband a couple of years ago when he was giving evidence for the defence In my trial. He was under oath and the defence lawyer asked him what the alleged victim said to him. My husband said he was not repeating It because there were ladies present. The public gallery had some elderly lady war service veterans In It. He was asked again and was told he needed to repeat It for the judge. My husband said It was something he could not do In front of ladies and refused.... I was really proud of him....
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Increasing Use of Profanity
the idea that men and women should have different sets of language is more offensive to me than any words that can be spoken aloud.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382281 wrote: the idea that men and women should have different sets of language is more offensive to me than any words that can be spoken aloud.
That was certainly the way I was brought up - you do not swear in polite company and never in front of ladies. I am still shocked when I hear a supposed lady swear although I am coming to expect it from the youf in the street.
That was certainly the way I was brought up - you do not swear in polite company and never in front of ladies. I am still shocked when I hear a supposed lady swear although I am coming to expect it from the youf in the street.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
It is an old fashioned value, probably stems from respect for your mother, and so extends to all women, as potential mothers.
It is not so much different sets of language between men and women as respect where it's due.
It is not so much different sets of language between men and women as respect where it's due.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Come on, we push watermelon sized babies out of our genitalia amidst a river of blood and other fluids. You think we can't relate to a little obscenity? We're too delicate?
The Increasing Use of Profanity
One of the more interesting examples of censorship screwing up a movie, I think, was one called "Hooper" with Burt Reynolds and Jan Michael Vincent.
Vincent's character calls a cop "you old fart"
Censors changed it to "you old fool"
In context, the change made a significant difference.
Now, I can deal with being called an old fart, but you'd better be my best friend 'fore you call me an old fool.
Vincent's character calls a cop "you old fart"
Censors changed it to "you old fool"
In context, the change made a significant difference.
Now, I can deal with being called an old fart, but you'd better be my best friend 'fore you call me an old fool.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
The Increasing Use of Profanity
SnoozeAgain;1382229 wrote: Have you watched Deadwood? Lots of c*ck sucker thrown around on the show but the writing it sheer poetry.
That was the one. I really could not get past the language.
That was the one. I really could not get past the language.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382290 wrote: Come on, we push watermelon sized babies out of our genitalia amidst a river of blood and other fluids. You think we can't relate to a little obscenity? We're too delicate?
And as you are pushing you can say what you like, but when you take that watermelon to school, better use the right language.
As I said a time and a place.
And as you are pushing you can say what you like, but when you take that watermelon to school, better use the right language.
As I said a time and a place.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
The Increasing Use of Profanity
One of the functions of society to make us forget that we are animals. That's why we create etiquette. Degrading the etiquette of public language makes some people feel like our society is being reduced to animalistic levels. Every time a swear word is uttered some people find it life affirming and other people see society crumbling around them.
There's not much time and place morality out there right now because society is in upheaval and, until the new era takes hold, there doesn't seem much point to pretending we're stable.
There's not much time and place morality out there right now because society is in upheaval and, until the new era takes hold, there doesn't seem much point to pretending we're stable.
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The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382341 wrote:
There's not much time and place morality out there right now because society is in upheaval and, until the new era takes hold, there doesn't seem much point to pretending we're stable.
It's not about a new era taking hold. It's about offence being caused. Maybe we will see a new generation In our life times who don't bat an eye lid at profanity's but with that will come the total loss of respect for other people and the very thing that keeps the human race civilised.
I agree with Bruv. It's the time and the place.
I live next door to a primary school and toddler nursery. Even In my own home and garden and If my windows are open, I am always very aware of small children outside the house who could hear me. Having said that, I am offended when I can hear through my open windows parents swearing at their kids.
When anyone who doesn't know me swears In front of me, It's not always the profanity they have used that offends me but the fact that they have given no thought to the notion that It MAY offend me.
There's not much time and place morality out there right now because society is in upheaval and, until the new era takes hold, there doesn't seem much point to pretending we're stable.
It's not about a new era taking hold. It's about offence being caused. Maybe we will see a new generation In our life times who don't bat an eye lid at profanity's but with that will come the total loss of respect for other people and the very thing that keeps the human race civilised.
I agree with Bruv. It's the time and the place.
I live next door to a primary school and toddler nursery. Even In my own home and garden and If my windows are open, I am always very aware of small children outside the house who could hear me. Having said that, I am offended when I can hear through my open windows parents swearing at their kids.
When anyone who doesn't know me swears In front of me, It's not always the profanity they have used that offends me but the fact that they have given no thought to the notion that It MAY offend me.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Increasing Use of Profanity
right, so... it's not about the world, it's about you
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The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382350 wrote: right, so... it's not about the world, it's about you No, It's not about me and I never Implied It was about me... My point was that It could be anyone.
When someone uses a profanity In public, any one of any number of people may not be offended by the word used. The offence caused Is due to the person having no regard what so ever for others who they may have never met before and don't give a toss If they are offended... That's the offence... not so much the word used.
When we stop caring weather we offend others, that's when society breaks down and your new era, as you put It, resorts to unsociable behaviour.
When someone uses a profanity In public, any one of any number of people may not be offended by the word used. The offence caused Is due to the person having no regard what so ever for others who they may have never met before and don't give a toss If they are offended... That's the offence... not so much the word used.
When we stop caring weather we offend others, that's when society breaks down and your new era, as you put It, resorts to unsociable behaviour.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Increasing Use of Profanity
I'm still trying to decide if I give a damn or not..
The Increasing Use of Profanity
oscar;1382352 wrote: No, It's not about me and I never Implied It was about me... My point was that It could be anyone.
When someone uses a profanity In public, any one of any number of people may not be offended by the word used. The offence caused Is due to the person having no regard what so ever for others who they may have never met before and don't give a toss If they are offended... That's the offence... not so much the word used.
When we stop caring weather we offend others, that's when society breaks down and your new era, as you put It, resorts to unsociable behaviour.
It's not my new era. It's an era that isn't old. It belongs to no one.
The protests that are sweeping the world right now involve unsociable behaviour. It's intentional. It's for the purpose of ending the old era.
When someone uses a profanity In public, any one of any number of people may not be offended by the word used. The offence caused Is due to the person having no regard what so ever for others who they may have never met before and don't give a toss If they are offended... That's the offence... not so much the word used.
When we stop caring weather we offend others, that's when society breaks down and your new era, as you put It, resorts to unsociable behaviour.
It's not my new era. It's an era that isn't old. It belongs to no one.
The protests that are sweeping the world right now involve unsociable behaviour. It's intentional. It's for the purpose of ending the old era.
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The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382358 wrote: It's not my new era. It's an era that isn't old. It belongs to no one.
The protests that are sweeping the world right now involve unsociable behaviour. It's intentional. It's for the purpose of ending the old era.
The purpose of ending the old era for what reason ?
The failure by some of not having consideration for others Is the ultimate failure of society as a whole.
Other things offend me. I don't want to see someone picking their nose and eating It on the bus or Imposing the smell of their bowels up my nostrils by pharting In public.
I don't want to see some 45 year old with her saggy stretch mark boobs falling out and her stomach hanging over her waist band. I don't want to see some redneck with his arsse crack on show whilst I browse the button mushrooms In the supermarket and I don't want to hear foul language In public especially when I have the young family children In tow. I am sure that I speak for many when I say that.
I know two people who use the F*** word In every sentence... They think they are being 'One of the lads', being 'cool' or It gives them Kudos and they are 'In Vogue'.. They're not... It's boreish, Oafish, crude and why both of them sit home on a weekend because no-one Invites them any where.
The protests that are sweeping the world right now involve unsociable behaviour. It's intentional. It's for the purpose of ending the old era.
The purpose of ending the old era for what reason ?
The failure by some of not having consideration for others Is the ultimate failure of society as a whole.
Other things offend me. I don't want to see someone picking their nose and eating It on the bus or Imposing the smell of their bowels up my nostrils by pharting In public.
I don't want to see some 45 year old with her saggy stretch mark boobs falling out and her stomach hanging over her waist band. I don't want to see some redneck with his arsse crack on show whilst I browse the button mushrooms In the supermarket and I don't want to hear foul language In public especially when I have the young family children In tow. I am sure that I speak for many when I say that.
I know two people who use the F*** word In every sentence... They think they are being 'One of the lads', being 'cool' or It gives them Kudos and they are 'In Vogue'.. They're not... It's boreish, Oafish, crude and why both of them sit home on a weekend because no-one Invites them any where.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382350 wrote: right, so... it's not about the world, it's about you
Is that supposed to be a criticism ?
Because to be totally honest, and talking about virtually anybody, including you.......it is ALL about you, meaning yourself.
It has been put in different ways by religion or laws or etiquette or whatever you want to call the rules that govern us all. Society's rules are not for the betterment of society but for the protection of the individuals within it........which in the end can be the same thing.
Is that supposed to be a criticism ?
Because to be totally honest, and talking about virtually anybody, including you.......it is ALL about you, meaning yourself.
It has been put in different ways by religion or laws or etiquette or whatever you want to call the rules that govern us all. Society's rules are not for the betterment of society but for the protection of the individuals within it........which in the end can be the same thing.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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The Increasing Use of Profanity
YZGI;1382356 wrote: I'm still trying to decide if I give a damn or not..
Well **** you then...
:wah::wah::wah:
Only joking
Well **** you then...
:wah::wah::wah:
Only joking
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Increasing Use of Profanity
oscar;1382366 wrote: Well **** you then...
:wah::wah::wah:
Only joking
Well at least you said it in the right compay..
:wah::wah::wah:
Only joking
Well at least you said it in the right compay..
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Bruv;1382365 wrote: Is that supposed to be a criticism ?
Because to be totally honest, and talking about virtually anybody, including you.......it is ALL about you, meaning yourself.
It has been put in different ways by religion or laws or etiquette or whatever you want to call the rules that govern us all. Society's rules are not for the betterment of society but for the protection of the individuals within it........which in the end can be the same thing.
I completely disagree. I agree that it has become about making individuals more concerned about themselves but I emphatically disagree that it is supposed to be that way.
My world is not about me, it's about my daughter. It's not my world, it's hers. If she speaks I want to listen. If she uses angry words I don't think to criticize her choices I think to find out why she chose those words.
eta: to be clear: her duty is not to make me feel comfortable and safe. That's my job.
Because to be totally honest, and talking about virtually anybody, including you.......it is ALL about you, meaning yourself.
It has been put in different ways by religion or laws or etiquette or whatever you want to call the rules that govern us all. Society's rules are not for the betterment of society but for the protection of the individuals within it........which in the end can be the same thing.
I completely disagree. I agree that it has become about making individuals more concerned about themselves but I emphatically disagree that it is supposed to be that way.
My world is not about me, it's about my daughter. It's not my world, it's hers. If she speaks I want to listen. If she uses angry words I don't think to criticize her choices I think to find out why she chose those words.
eta: to be clear: her duty is not to make me feel comfortable and safe. That's my job.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Here's my summary of observation on the matter:
Kid cries. Parent tells them to stop crying.
Kid is afraid. Parent tells them to not be afraid.
Kid wants to go to a graveyard. Parents tell them that's not what normal people do.
Kid starts cursing. All of a sudden the parents care about what the kid is saying.
Expand that to cover the end of an era.
Now, parents, stop whining and deal with it.
You probably don't like what the kids are saying nowadays because you haven't paid much attention for too long.
Kid cries. Parent tells them to stop crying.
Kid is afraid. Parent tells them to not be afraid.
Kid wants to go to a graveyard. Parents tell them that's not what normal people do.
Kid starts cursing. All of a sudden the parents care about what the kid is saying.
Expand that to cover the end of an era.
Now, parents, stop whining and deal with it.
You probably don't like what the kids are saying nowadays because you haven't paid much attention for too long.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382403 wrote: Here's my summary of observation on the matter:
Kid cries. Parent tells them to stop crying.
Kid is afraid. Parent tells them to not be afraid.
Kid wants to go to a graveyard. Parents tell them that's not what normal people do.
Kid starts cursing. All of a sudden the parents care about what the kid is saying.
Expand that to cover the end of an era.
Now, parents, stop whining and deal with it.
You probably don't like what the kids are saying nowadays because you haven't paid much attention for too long.
What a strange world you live in :-
Child cries. Parent comforts child and finds out what the problem is.
Child is afraid. Parent reassures child and builds their self confidence.
Child want to go to a graveyard. Parent takes child to graveyard, points out the interesting parts and answers questions.
Child starts cursing. Parent shows child it's not a clever way of behaving and gives alternatives.
Who's whining - none of my children or grandchildren are prone to swearing (?unless within their peer group? dunno) - not my choice, theirs.
Kid cries. Parent tells them to stop crying.
Kid is afraid. Parent tells them to not be afraid.
Kid wants to go to a graveyard. Parents tell them that's not what normal people do.
Kid starts cursing. All of a sudden the parents care about what the kid is saying.
Expand that to cover the end of an era.
Now, parents, stop whining and deal with it.
You probably don't like what the kids are saying nowadays because you haven't paid much attention for too long.
What a strange world you live in :-
Child cries. Parent comforts child and finds out what the problem is.
Child is afraid. Parent reassures child and builds their self confidence.
Child want to go to a graveyard. Parent takes child to graveyard, points out the interesting parts and answers questions.
Child starts cursing. Parent shows child it's not a clever way of behaving and gives alternatives.
Who's whining - none of my children or grandchildren are prone to swearing (?unless within their peer group? dunno) - not my choice, theirs.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Oh. Ok. I'm wrong.
Let's start a "Just Say No" campaign.
Let's start a "Just Say No" campaign.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382393 wrote: I completely disagree. I agree that it has become about making individuals more concerned about themselves but I emphatically disagree that it is supposed to be that way.
My world is not about me, it's about my daughter. It's not my world, it's hers. If she speaks I want to listen. If she uses angry words I don't think to criticize her choices I think to find out why she chose those words.
eta: to be clear: her duty is not to make me feel comfortable and safe. That's my job.
Have you ever considered that you can over analyse things ?
My world is not about me, it's about my daughter. It's not my world, it's hers. If she speaks I want to listen. If she uses angry words I don't think to criticize her choices I think to find out why she chose those words.
eta: to be clear: her duty is not to make me feel comfortable and safe. That's my job.
Have you ever considered that you can over analyse things ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
The Increasing Use of Profanity
It doesn't take a lot of analysing to figure out which of the parent or child has the duty to provide safety to the other. It doesn't take a lot of analysis to see that the world would be better if we didn't have to be more and more concerned about ourselves.
Anyway...
I'm just sayin...
It's not just me sayin' it. How about I give you another source? This should bring happiness as it says a little bit of "this is good" and a little bit of "this is bad"
Recession F-Bombs
Ultimately, the curse words are not a thing unto themselves. They are a symptom of anger and frustration. You can't just take away the symptom without fixing the cause.
Anyway...
I'm just sayin...
It's not just me sayin' it. How about I give you another source? This should bring happiness as it says a little bit of "this is good" and a little bit of "this is bad"
Recession F-Bombs
Ultimately, the curse words are not a thing unto themselves. They are a symptom of anger and frustration. You can't just take away the symptom without fixing the cause.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
This thread started about the widespread use of swear words, now we are on the economic breakdown and inter generation relationships.....................suppose they are related.......somewhere......some how.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Bryn Mawr;1382438 wrote: What a strange world you live in :-
Child cries. Parent comforts child and finds out what the problem is.
Child is afraid. Parent reassures child and builds their self confidence.
Child want to go to a graveyard. Parent takes child to graveyard, points out the interesting parts and answers questions.
Child starts cursing. Parent shows child it's not a clever way of behaving and gives alternatives.
Who's whining - none of my children or grandchildren are prone to swearing (?unless within their peer group? dunno) - not my choice, theirs.
Feeling like I unfairly brushed you off with my "just say no" comment.
Some kids don't swear because they had those questions answered but I'd wager that a large number of them don't swear because they were told not to under threat of rejection. It's described quite well in The Drama Of The Gifted Child by Alice Miller and double timed in Reviving Ophelia by Mary Pipher as relates to treating girls differently than boys.
I thought that raising my own kid properly was enough but it's not... unless we also live in a bubble. I do, in fact, live in a strange world. My bubble burst.
Child cries. Parent comforts child and finds out what the problem is.
Child is afraid. Parent reassures child and builds their self confidence.
Child want to go to a graveyard. Parent takes child to graveyard, points out the interesting parts and answers questions.
Child starts cursing. Parent shows child it's not a clever way of behaving and gives alternatives.
Who's whining - none of my children or grandchildren are prone to swearing (?unless within their peer group? dunno) - not my choice, theirs.
Feeling like I unfairly brushed you off with my "just say no" comment.
Some kids don't swear because they had those questions answered but I'd wager that a large number of them don't swear because they were told not to under threat of rejection. It's described quite well in The Drama Of The Gifted Child by Alice Miller and double timed in Reviving Ophelia by Mary Pipher as relates to treating girls differently than boys.
I thought that raising my own kid properly was enough but it's not... unless we also live in a bubble. I do, in fact, live in a strange world. My bubble burst.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382471 wrote: Feeling like I unfairly brushed you off with my "just say no" comment.
Some kids don't swear because they had those questions answered but I'd wager that a large number of them don't swear because they were told not to under threat of rejection. It's described quite well in The Drama Of The Gifted Child by Alice Miller and double timed in Reviving Ophelia by Mary Pipher as relates to treating girls differently than boys.
I thought that raising my own kid properly was enough but it's not... unless we also live in a bubble. I do, in fact, live in a strange world. My bubble burst.
You don't get anywhere trying to bring a child up with threats - you teach them and lead them by example.
Threatening a child with rejection if they do not do exactly what you want gives you an insecure child and what use is that?
Some kids don't swear because they had those questions answered but I'd wager that a large number of them don't swear because they were told not to under threat of rejection. It's described quite well in The Drama Of The Gifted Child by Alice Miller and double timed in Reviving Ophelia by Mary Pipher as relates to treating girls differently than boys.
I thought that raising my own kid properly was enough but it's not... unless we also live in a bubble. I do, in fact, live in a strange world. My bubble burst.
You don't get anywhere trying to bring a child up with threats - you teach them and lead them by example.
Threatening a child with rejection if they do not do exactly what you want gives you an insecure child and what use is that?
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Exactly.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382532 wrote: Exactly.
Exactly what? That I'm right in how I'm suggesting children should be brought up? If so, what are we disagreeing about?
Why do I feel that I'm getting lost in this thread?
One one side Bruv is telling me I don't swear because of my relationship with my mother, on the other you're telling me it's because I was threatened with rejection. I see it as neither - most of the swearing I hear in public is down to the lack of communications ability in the speaker, the only way they can get their message across is using swear words and they've become habituated. I was shown a different way and I've tried to show that to my children, not by threats, not by beatings but by example.
Exactly what? That I'm right in how I'm suggesting children should be brought up? If so, what are we disagreeing about?
Why do I feel that I'm getting lost in this thread?
One one side Bruv is telling me I don't swear because of my relationship with my mother, on the other you're telling me it's because I was threatened with rejection. I see it as neither - most of the swearing I hear in public is down to the lack of communications ability in the speaker, the only way they can get their message across is using swear words and they've become habituated. I was shown a different way and I've tried to show that to my children, not by threats, not by beatings but by example.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Bryn Mawr;1382535 wrote: Exactly what? That I'm right in how I'm suggesting children should be brought up? If so, what are we disagreeing about?
Why do I feel that I'm getting lost in this thread?
One one side Bruv is telling me I don't swear because of my relationship with my mother, on the other you're telling me it's because I was threatened with rejection. I see it as neither - most of the swearing I hear in public is down to the lack of communications ability in the speaker, the only way they can get their message across is using swear words and they've become habituated. I was shown a different way and I've tried to show that to my children, not by threats, not by beatings but by example.
I imagine you don't swear because you were brought up well and you have good self-esteem and feel empowered.
What we're concerned with is the people who do swear... so you get a pass.
My point is that you won't fix the lack of esteem and empowerment of those who do swear by taking away the language that expresses it.
Why do I feel that I'm getting lost in this thread?
One one side Bruv is telling me I don't swear because of my relationship with my mother, on the other you're telling me it's because I was threatened with rejection. I see it as neither - most of the swearing I hear in public is down to the lack of communications ability in the speaker, the only way they can get their message across is using swear words and they've become habituated. I was shown a different way and I've tried to show that to my children, not by threats, not by beatings but by example.
I imagine you don't swear because you were brought up well and you have good self-esteem and feel empowered.
What we're concerned with is the people who do swear... so you get a pass.
My point is that you won't fix the lack of esteem and empowerment of those who do swear by taking away the language that expresses it.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
To explain what I mean better, re Alice Miller and withholding approval, this is a passage from Reviving Ophelia by Mary Pipher where she expands on Millers work The Drama Of The Gifted Child. This bit is followed by the expansion that it's not just parents giving this message to children but their peers and other social mediums as well.
Her patients' parents, because of their own childhood experiences, regarded parts of their children's personalities as unacceptable. They taught their children that only a small range of thoughts, emotions and behaviors would be tolerated. The children disowned that which wasn't tolerated. If anger was not tolerated, they acted as if they felt no anger. If sexual feelings were not permitted, they acted as if they had no sexual urges.
As children, her patients chose parental approval and experienced a loss of their true selves. They stopped expressing unacceptable feelings and engaging in the unacceptable behaviors, at least in front of adults. They stopped sharing the unsanctioned thoughts. The part of them that was unacceptable went underground and eventually withered from lack of attention. Or that part of them that was unacceptable was projected onto others.
Miller believed that as the true self was disowned, the false self was elevated. If others approved, the false self felt validated and the person was temporarily happy. With the false self in charge, all validation came from outside the person. If the false self failed to gain approval, the person was devastated.
Reviving Ophelia, Mary Pipher, p36
Her patients' parents, because of their own childhood experiences, regarded parts of their children's personalities as unacceptable. They taught their children that only a small range of thoughts, emotions and behaviors would be tolerated. The children disowned that which wasn't tolerated. If anger was not tolerated, they acted as if they felt no anger. If sexual feelings were not permitted, they acted as if they had no sexual urges.
As children, her patients chose parental approval and experienced a loss of their true selves. They stopped expressing unacceptable feelings and engaging in the unacceptable behaviors, at least in front of adults. They stopped sharing the unsanctioned thoughts. The part of them that was unacceptable went underground and eventually withered from lack of attention. Or that part of them that was unacceptable was projected onto others.
Miller believed that as the true self was disowned, the false self was elevated. If others approved, the false self felt validated and the person was temporarily happy. With the false self in charge, all validation came from outside the person. If the false self failed to gain approval, the person was devastated.
Reviving Ophelia, Mary Pipher, p36
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Lon;1382216 wrote:
Do you have any thoughts on this subject?
You bet I do. My parents had a problem with it too. My mother once said that any movie that had to use profanity to get a reaction wasn't a very good movie to start with. Now I have to admit, when I was active duty in the Air force, every third word we said was a swear word. When I went inactive and began working in the corporate sector, however, I found out pretty quickly that if you popped off with profanity in a business meeting, not only would others not take you seriously after that, you might even get fired.
Now that I work with teens every day, I do not allow any kind of profanity in my classroom whatsoever. I make a point of working with them to help them understand that they need to exercise control. That's very difficult for them when they are inundated with profanity on the TV, the internet, and even on the radio and in their movies!
The other day, a young woman was standing behind me in line at Walmart and I could hear her swearing a blue streak and her voice carried pretty loudly. "Yeah, that motherf***** C*cks***ing B1tch was over at my house and I F*c*****ng* told him that..."
There were two five year olds standing directly in front of me with many other customers. No one seemed to want to say anything, but I could tell from their expressions that they were as upset as I was. Finally, after ten minutes of this tirade, I turned to her and told her with some razor-sharp and direct eye contact, 'Please watch your language, there are children present."
Her mouth fell open for a second, then she recovered and with a snotty tone she replied, "It's a free country so I'm free to say anything I want!"
I replied sternly, "Yes, that's true. And the rest of us are free to think that you have absolutely no class." The people in line broke out laughing and gave me applause.
She shut up.
Do you have any thoughts on this subject?
You bet I do. My parents had a problem with it too. My mother once said that any movie that had to use profanity to get a reaction wasn't a very good movie to start with. Now I have to admit, when I was active duty in the Air force, every third word we said was a swear word. When I went inactive and began working in the corporate sector, however, I found out pretty quickly that if you popped off with profanity in a business meeting, not only would others not take you seriously after that, you might even get fired.
Now that I work with teens every day, I do not allow any kind of profanity in my classroom whatsoever. I make a point of working with them to help them understand that they need to exercise control. That's very difficult for them when they are inundated with profanity on the TV, the internet, and even on the radio and in their movies!
The other day, a young woman was standing behind me in line at Walmart and I could hear her swearing a blue streak and her voice carried pretty loudly. "Yeah, that motherf***** C*cks***ing B1tch was over at my house and I F*c*****ng* told him that..."
There were two five year olds standing directly in front of me with many other customers. No one seemed to want to say anything, but I could tell from their expressions that they were as upset as I was. Finally, after ten minutes of this tirade, I turned to her and told her with some razor-sharp and direct eye contact, 'Please watch your language, there are children present."
Her mouth fell open for a second, then she recovered and with a snotty tone she replied, "It's a free country so I'm free to say anything I want!"
I replied sternly, "Yes, that's true. And the rest of us are free to think that you have absolutely no class." The people in line broke out laughing and gave me applause.
She shut up.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Speaking of swearing, my New Year's Resolution last year was to completely stop using the Lord's name in vain. I'm happy to report that other than a couple of slips at the beginning, I was completely successful!
I don't do it at all now, and I feel much better about myself. I also tend to notice how much more other people do it nowadays.
I don't do it at all now, and I feel much better about myself. I also tend to notice how much more other people do it nowadays.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Thank you, those were great examples of false self formulation!
The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382552 wrote: Thank you, those were great examples of false self formulation!
You are rapidly replacing Kevin as the most hard to understand English speaker on FG
You are rapidly replacing Kevin as the most hard to understand English speaker on FG
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
The Increasing Use of Profanity
I laid out exactly what false self formulation is in my previous post. It's quite easy to understand. The words are not specialized or complex.
eta: I seriously want to know what part was confusing. I quoted from a book written for troubled teens so it's specifically worded to make sense.
eta: I seriously want to know what part was confusing. I quoted from a book written for troubled teens so it's specifically worded to make sense.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
koan;1382543 wrote:
Her patients' parents, because of their own childhood experiences, regarded parts of their children's personalities as unacceptable. They taught their children that only a small range of thoughts, emotions and behaviors would be tolerated. The children disowned that which wasn't tolerated. If anger was not tolerated, they acted as if they felt no anger. If sexual feelings were not permitted, they acted as if they had no sexual urges.
As children, her patients chose parental approval and experienced a loss of their true selves. They stopped expressing unacceptable feelings and engaging in the unacceptable behaviors, at least in front of adults. They stopped sharing the unsanctioned thoughts. The part of them that was unacceptable went underground and eventually withered from lack of attention. Or that part of them that was unacceptable was projected onto others.
Miller believed that as the true self was disowned, the false self was elevated. If others approved, the false self felt validated and the person was temporarily happy. With the false self in charge, all validation came from outside the person. If the false self failed to gain approval, the person was devastated.
koan;1382564 wrote: I laid out exactly what false self formulation is in my previous post. It's quite easy to understand. The words are not specialized or complex.
This was not described as 'self formulation' and would better be described as 'child formulation' or better still as child raising.
Let me try and get what you are saying.......you seem to be saying that everybody should be free to express themselves in what ever way they think fit, and that suppressing self expression in children is wrong. And that imposing your ideas onto your children is wrong.
In an ideal world you might be right, until that idyll is achieved most parents will try and guide their kids the best they can, sometimes making hard and fast rules that must not be broken.
As long as this is done in a loose framework with room for manoeuvre to learn and evolve you have done your best.
Her patients' parents, because of their own childhood experiences, regarded parts of their children's personalities as unacceptable. They taught their children that only a small range of thoughts, emotions and behaviors would be tolerated. The children disowned that which wasn't tolerated. If anger was not tolerated, they acted as if they felt no anger. If sexual feelings were not permitted, they acted as if they had no sexual urges.
As children, her patients chose parental approval and experienced a loss of their true selves. They stopped expressing unacceptable feelings and engaging in the unacceptable behaviors, at least in front of adults. They stopped sharing the unsanctioned thoughts. The part of them that was unacceptable went underground and eventually withered from lack of attention. Or that part of them that was unacceptable was projected onto others.
Miller believed that as the true self was disowned, the false self was elevated. If others approved, the false self felt validated and the person was temporarily happy. With the false self in charge, all validation came from outside the person. If the false self failed to gain approval, the person was devastated.
koan;1382564 wrote: I laid out exactly what false self formulation is in my previous post. It's quite easy to understand. The words are not specialized or complex.
This was not described as 'self formulation' and would better be described as 'child formulation' or better still as child raising.
Let me try and get what you are saying.......you seem to be saying that everybody should be free to express themselves in what ever way they think fit, and that suppressing self expression in children is wrong. And that imposing your ideas onto your children is wrong.
In an ideal world you might be right, until that idyll is achieved most parents will try and guide their kids the best they can, sometimes making hard and fast rules that must not be broken.
As long as this is done in a loose framework with room for manoeuvre to learn and evolve you have done your best.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Bruv;1382563 wrote: You are rapidly replacing Kevin as the most hard to understand English speaker on FG
Kev's posts are Informative. Some just wax lyrical.
Kev's posts are Informative. Some just wax lyrical.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Bruv;1382567 wrote: This was not described as 'self formulation' and would better be described as 'child formulation' or better still as child raising.
Let me try and get what you are saying.......you seem to be saying that everybody should be free to express themselves in what ever way they think fit, and that suppressing self expression in children is wrong. And that imposing your ideas onto your children is wrong.
In an ideal world you might be right, until that idyll is achieved most parents will try and guide their kids the best they can, sometimes making hard and fast rules that must not be broken.
As long as this is done in a loose framework with room for manoeuvre to learn and evolve you have done your best.
It can happen at any time, not just childhood. The quote describes how a false self comes to be. Formulation is how something comes to be. The more completely a false self takes over, the more likely the person was to be a drug addict or social deviant.
The whole self is retained (kept) if you validate that the unacceptable feeling are normal and teach people to get their self-esteem internally instead of relying on outside sources. When people are acting out with anger and/or violence, it stems from feelings of helplessness. If you take away their words, they will get more angry and violent.
It's important. You need to look at causes not symptoms.
Or you can just find topic after topic about people who can be judged and punished and feel better about yourself because you aren't them.
oscar, I don't expect you to understand anything I say. It would be threatening. Stay safe.
Let me try and get what you are saying.......you seem to be saying that everybody should be free to express themselves in what ever way they think fit, and that suppressing self expression in children is wrong. And that imposing your ideas onto your children is wrong.
In an ideal world you might be right, until that idyll is achieved most parents will try and guide their kids the best they can, sometimes making hard and fast rules that must not be broken.
As long as this is done in a loose framework with room for manoeuvre to learn and evolve you have done your best.
It can happen at any time, not just childhood. The quote describes how a false self comes to be. Formulation is how something comes to be. The more completely a false self takes over, the more likely the person was to be a drug addict or social deviant.
The whole self is retained (kept) if you validate that the unacceptable feeling are normal and teach people to get their self-esteem internally instead of relying on outside sources. When people are acting out with anger and/or violence, it stems from feelings of helplessness. If you take away their words, they will get more angry and violent.
It's important. You need to look at causes not symptoms.
Or you can just find topic after topic about people who can be judged and punished and feel better about yourself because you aren't them.
oscar, I don't expect you to understand anything I say. It would be threatening. Stay safe.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Basically, the thread asks why there is more profanity.
Perhaps it's because today's youth are in need of a good whipping or more humiliation.
Perhaps it's because they are feeling helpless and have no other tools to express their discontent.
By all means go ahead and censor language. Just don't think you've fixed the problem.
I re-read what I just wrote and it uses simple vocabulary in a straight forward approach.
If you really want to know what the problem is, you'll have to open your minds to things that may not be familiar to you.
Perhaps it's because today's youth are in need of a good whipping or more humiliation.
Perhaps it's because they are feeling helpless and have no other tools to express their discontent.
By all means go ahead and censor language. Just don't think you've fixed the problem.
I re-read what I just wrote and it uses simple vocabulary in a straight forward approach.
If you really want to know what the problem is, you'll have to open your minds to things that may not be familiar to you.
The Increasing Use of Profanity
I very much agree with the quote that koan gave from Mary Pipher. But I also feel that, with the best will in the world, we can't avoid aiding and abetting this false self developing in our children unless, as parents, we have totally validated our own selves and accepted the parts of us that we have chosen to bury, which can be a life time's work, or longer, for ourselves.
I cringe somewhat when I notice inhibiting traits in my adult children that I can see have evolved directly from my influence when they were little. But I try to accept that, at the time, I knew no different. I also agree with Jung when he says that the first half of our lives is spent developing an ego, and the second part is attempting to shed the false self we have created.
I cringe somewhat when I notice inhibiting traits in my adult children that I can see have evolved directly from my influence when they were little. But I try to accept that, at the time, I knew no different. I also agree with Jung when he says that the first half of our lives is spent developing an ego, and the second part is attempting to shed the false self we have created.
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
The Increasing Use of Profanity
Thank you, Theia.
I hope the following story will relieve you of any feelings of guilt.
My mother is very concerned with image and being socially acceptable. Very oppressive and massive guilt trips when I did anything that might reflect poorly on her or the family name. The pressure to create a false self was extremely intense. Nevertheless, one of the few vivid memories I have from my childhood was thus:
My best friend was crying in the front vestibule of the school at the end of a day. I was about 5 or 6yrs old. I comforted her and asked what was wrong. She was so choked up the story came between heaving sobs. We walked home together and were joined by her brother and my two siblings, hearing the tale of injustice that had resulted in her being slugged by naughty schoolmate. By the time we reached my house and my mother took over being the source of comfort and authority, I'd heard the tale completely. As she retold it to my mother, I zoned out and could only hear the hitching sobs that took on a strange and rather comical rhythm. Despite my knowledge of what was appropriate, the sound started to stir an uncontrollable giggle. I tried to hide it but my friend's brother caught me. He pointed and accused "Why is she laughing? My sister is hurt and she thinks it's funny!!" Everyone turned to catch me in my terrible moment of inappropriate behaviour but... my mother stepped in and said "She's smiling because she's a happy child. There's nothing wrong with that. Leave her alone."
My mother did little else right in regards to my emotional growth but that one thing made all the difference. She freed me.
We all say something that kills someone's spirit sometimes but for a hundred errors, it only takes one time getting it right to reset the balance.
That's why I'm still hopeful.
I hope the following story will relieve you of any feelings of guilt.
My mother is very concerned with image and being socially acceptable. Very oppressive and massive guilt trips when I did anything that might reflect poorly on her or the family name. The pressure to create a false self was extremely intense. Nevertheless, one of the few vivid memories I have from my childhood was thus:
My best friend was crying in the front vestibule of the school at the end of a day. I was about 5 or 6yrs old. I comforted her and asked what was wrong. She was so choked up the story came between heaving sobs. We walked home together and were joined by her brother and my two siblings, hearing the tale of injustice that had resulted in her being slugged by naughty schoolmate. By the time we reached my house and my mother took over being the source of comfort and authority, I'd heard the tale completely. As she retold it to my mother, I zoned out and could only hear the hitching sobs that took on a strange and rather comical rhythm. Despite my knowledge of what was appropriate, the sound started to stir an uncontrollable giggle. I tried to hide it but my friend's brother caught me. He pointed and accused "Why is she laughing? My sister is hurt and she thinks it's funny!!" Everyone turned to catch me in my terrible moment of inappropriate behaviour but... my mother stepped in and said "She's smiling because she's a happy child. There's nothing wrong with that. Leave her alone."
My mother did little else right in regards to my emotional growth but that one thing made all the difference. She freed me.
We all say something that kills someone's spirit sometimes but for a hundred errors, it only takes one time getting it right to reset the balance.
That's why I'm still hopeful.