I'm against it.
It's a political action not a labour action.
They're going on March break in a week so there ain't a hell of a lot of pressure there. The government has proposed a bill to mediate the contract with the students' best interests in mind. No matter what the BCTF says, the deal breaker is their demand for a 15% wage increase. The government can't do that. Not because they don't think teachers are valuable but because the have every other public sector union having agreed to a net/0 deal with a "me too" clause. That means if the gov't lets any single public sector out of the net/0 agreement all the other sectors get raises too.
My official stance is that teachers are in the vocation of teaching our children about the real world. Let them strike for a few weeks with the suggestion they look around and find out how the rest of the world is living. If they think other provinces pay better, then go. There is a surplus of teachers looking for work and lots of folks prefer the west coast to colder climates. They still make 3x as much as the average joe.
BC teachers on strike
BC teachers on strike
koan;1386338 wrote: My official stance is that teachers are in the vocation of teaching our children about the real world.
Your educational prejudice is showing again, Koan. I don't know about Canada, but in America teachers are the least paid vocation for their educational level. I, myself, could triple my salary by taking my engineering degrees and going to work for my local oil companies. Lucky for the children of my state, I choose to be a teacher but there are VERY few men who either can or will do that. Most have to make a living to support their family. In New Mexico, a teacher that is the sole wage earner in the family cannot support that family above the poverty level.
Let them strike for a few weeks with the suggestion they look around and find out how the rest of the world is living.
A mean-spirited and biased statement. All the teachers that I know came to this career from outside careers. I, myself, have been a military pilot, a corporate chef, and corporate manager. This is my third career. I put myself through college three times with no loans and no scholarships by working in blue collar jobs at night. By count, I have had 182 separate jobs in my life including working at gas stations, McDonalds, 7/11s, and a stint on an asphalt crew.
I know much, much more about "how the world is living" than you do.
If they think other provinces pay better, then go. There is a surplus of teachers looking for work and lots of folks prefer the west coast to colder climates.
In America, we are facing a serious shortage of teacher due to the lack of pay, the ridiculous demands of the job...and yes, the attitude of disrespect of the general population that you are fostering here.
They still make 3x as much as the average joe.
You should probably stop talking now, since you have no idea what you are saying and your ignorance is painful to watch.
Your educational prejudice is showing again, Koan. I don't know about Canada, but in America teachers are the least paid vocation for their educational level. I, myself, could triple my salary by taking my engineering degrees and going to work for my local oil companies. Lucky for the children of my state, I choose to be a teacher but there are VERY few men who either can or will do that. Most have to make a living to support their family. In New Mexico, a teacher that is the sole wage earner in the family cannot support that family above the poverty level.
Let them strike for a few weeks with the suggestion they look around and find out how the rest of the world is living.
A mean-spirited and biased statement. All the teachers that I know came to this career from outside careers. I, myself, have been a military pilot, a corporate chef, and corporate manager. This is my third career. I put myself through college three times with no loans and no scholarships by working in blue collar jobs at night. By count, I have had 182 separate jobs in my life including working at gas stations, McDonalds, 7/11s, and a stint on an asphalt crew.
I know much, much more about "how the world is living" than you do.
If they think other provinces pay better, then go. There is a surplus of teachers looking for work and lots of folks prefer the west coast to colder climates.
In America, we are facing a serious shortage of teacher due to the lack of pay, the ridiculous demands of the job...and yes, the attitude of disrespect of the general population that you are fostering here.
They still make 3x as much as the average joe.
You should probably stop talking now, since you have no idea what you are saying and your ignorance is painful to watch.
BC teachers on strike
Myths and Facts about Educator Pay
MYTH: Teachers make just as much as other, comparable professions.
FACT: According to a recent study by the National Association of Colleges and Employers, the teaching profession has an average national starting salary of $30,377. Meanwhile, NACE finds that other college graduates who enter fields requiring similar training and responsibilities start at higher salaries:
Computer programmers start at an average of $43,635,
Public accounting professionals at $44,668, and
Registered nurses at $45,570.
Not only do teachers start lower than other professionals, but the more years they put into teaching, the wider the gap gets.
A report from NEA Research, which is based on US census data, finds that annual pay for teachers has fallen sharply over the past 60 years in relation to the annual pay of other workers with college degrees. Throughout the nation the average earnings of workers with at least four years of college are now over 50 percent higher than the average earnings of a teacher.
An analysis of weekly wage trends by researchers at the Economic Policy Institute (EPI) shows that teachers' wages have fallen behind those of other workers since 1996, with teachers' inflation-adjusted weekly wages rising just 0.8%, far less than the 12% weekly wage growth of other college graduates and of all workers. Further, a comparison of teachers' weekly wages to those of other workers with similar education and experience shows that, since 1993, female teacher wages have fallen behind 13% and male teacher wages 12.5% (11.5% among all teachers). Since 1979 teacher wages relative to those of other similar workers have dropped 18.5% among women, 9.3% among men, and 13.1% among both combined.
Teachers lost spending power for themselves and their families as inflation outpaced increases in teacher salaries last year, according to NEA Research. Inflation increased 3.1 percent over the past year, while teacher salaries increased by only 2.3 percent.
MYTH: Teachers are well-paid when their weekly or hourly wage is compared with other professions.
FACT: Teacher critics who make this claim use data collected by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) in its annual National Compensation Survey (NCS). But NCS data are based on employer surveys, and the NCS measures scheduled hours -- not the work teachers do outside the school day. Because teachers do not work the familiar full year and roughly 9-5 schedules that most professionals have, the comparison is one of apples to oranges.
Economic Policy Institute President Lawrence Mishel explains that in the NCS data "Teachers are measured by days worked (say 190 official school days divided by five, resulting in 38 weeks), while others are measured as days paid (work days plus paid time off: breaks, vacations and holidays)."
The bottom line: NCS data vastly understate the weekly hours of teachers and the weeks teachers work each year, and thereby significantly overstate the hourly wage or weekly wage for a given annual wage.
If you believe the NCS hourly pay data, then you believe that English professors ($43.50) make more per hour than dentists ($33.34) or nuclear engineers ($36.16).
MYTH: The school day is only six or seven hours, so it's only fair that teachers make less than "full-time" professionals.
FACT: Other professionals hardly have the monopoly on the long workday, and many studies conclude that teachers work as long or longer than the typical 40-hour workweek.
Six or seven hours is the "contracted" workday, but unlike in other professions, the expectation for teachers is that much required work will take place at home, at night and on weekends. For teachers, the day isn't over when the dismissal bell rings.
Teachers spend an average of 50 hours per week on instructional duties, including an average of 12 hours each week on non-compensated school-related activities such as grading papers, bus duty, and club advising.
When the Center for Teaching Quality studied teachers' workdays in Clark County, NV, it found that not only did most teachers work additional hours outside of the school day, but that "Very little of this time is spent working directly with students in activities such as tutoring or coaching; far more time is reported on preparation, grading papers, parent conferences, and attending meetings."
MYTH: Teachers have summers off.
FACT: Students have summers off. Teachers spend summers working second jobs, teaching summer school, and taking classes for certification renewal or to advance their careers.
Most full-time employees in the private sector receive training on company time at company expense, while many teachers spend the eight weeks of summer break earning college hours, at their own expense.
School begins in late August or early September, but teachers are back before the start of school and are busy stocking supplies, setting up their classrooms, and preparing for the year's curriculum.
MYTH: Teachers make just as much as other, comparable professions.
FACT: According to a recent study by the National Association of Colleges and Employers, the teaching profession has an average national starting salary of $30,377. Meanwhile, NACE finds that other college graduates who enter fields requiring similar training and responsibilities start at higher salaries:
Computer programmers start at an average of $43,635,
Public accounting professionals at $44,668, and
Registered nurses at $45,570.
Not only do teachers start lower than other professionals, but the more years they put into teaching, the wider the gap gets.
A report from NEA Research, which is based on US census data, finds that annual pay for teachers has fallen sharply over the past 60 years in relation to the annual pay of other workers with college degrees. Throughout the nation the average earnings of workers with at least four years of college are now over 50 percent higher than the average earnings of a teacher.
An analysis of weekly wage trends by researchers at the Economic Policy Institute (EPI) shows that teachers' wages have fallen behind those of other workers since 1996, with teachers' inflation-adjusted weekly wages rising just 0.8%, far less than the 12% weekly wage growth of other college graduates and of all workers. Further, a comparison of teachers' weekly wages to those of other workers with similar education and experience shows that, since 1993, female teacher wages have fallen behind 13% and male teacher wages 12.5% (11.5% among all teachers). Since 1979 teacher wages relative to those of other similar workers have dropped 18.5% among women, 9.3% among men, and 13.1% among both combined.
Teachers lost spending power for themselves and their families as inflation outpaced increases in teacher salaries last year, according to NEA Research. Inflation increased 3.1 percent over the past year, while teacher salaries increased by only 2.3 percent.
MYTH: Teachers are well-paid when their weekly or hourly wage is compared with other professions.
FACT: Teacher critics who make this claim use data collected by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) in its annual National Compensation Survey (NCS). But NCS data are based on employer surveys, and the NCS measures scheduled hours -- not the work teachers do outside the school day. Because teachers do not work the familiar full year and roughly 9-5 schedules that most professionals have, the comparison is one of apples to oranges.
Economic Policy Institute President Lawrence Mishel explains that in the NCS data "Teachers are measured by days worked (say 190 official school days divided by five, resulting in 38 weeks), while others are measured as days paid (work days plus paid time off: breaks, vacations and holidays)."
The bottom line: NCS data vastly understate the weekly hours of teachers and the weeks teachers work each year, and thereby significantly overstate the hourly wage or weekly wage for a given annual wage.
If you believe the NCS hourly pay data, then you believe that English professors ($43.50) make more per hour than dentists ($33.34) or nuclear engineers ($36.16).
MYTH: The school day is only six or seven hours, so it's only fair that teachers make less than "full-time" professionals.
FACT: Other professionals hardly have the monopoly on the long workday, and many studies conclude that teachers work as long or longer than the typical 40-hour workweek.
Six or seven hours is the "contracted" workday, but unlike in other professions, the expectation for teachers is that much required work will take place at home, at night and on weekends. For teachers, the day isn't over when the dismissal bell rings.
Teachers spend an average of 50 hours per week on instructional duties, including an average of 12 hours each week on non-compensated school-related activities such as grading papers, bus duty, and club advising.
When the Center for Teaching Quality studied teachers' workdays in Clark County, NV, it found that not only did most teachers work additional hours outside of the school day, but that "Very little of this time is spent working directly with students in activities such as tutoring or coaching; far more time is reported on preparation, grading papers, parent conferences, and attending meetings."
MYTH: Teachers have summers off.
FACT: Students have summers off. Teachers spend summers working second jobs, teaching summer school, and taking classes for certification renewal or to advance their careers.
Most full-time employees in the private sector receive training on company time at company expense, while many teachers spend the eight weeks of summer break earning college hours, at their own expense.
School begins in late August or early September, but teachers are back before the start of school and are busy stocking supplies, setting up their classrooms, and preparing for the year's curriculum.
BC teachers on strike
MYTH: Teachers receive excellent health and pension benefits that make up for lower salaries.
FACT: Although teachers have somewhat better health and pension benefits than do other professionals, these are offset partly by lower payroll taxes paid by employers (since some teachers are not in the Social Security system), according to the Economic Policy Institute (EPI).
Teachers have less premium pay (overtime and shift pay, for example), and less paid leave than do other professionals.
Teacher benefits have not improved relative to other professionals since 1994 (the earliest data EPI has on benefits), so the growth in the teacher wage
disadvantage has not been offset by improved benefits.
The benefits of other workers would not have declined as much in recent years if they had the protection of a union, collective bargaining, and an independent voice on the job -- like public school teachers.
MYTH: Thanks to tenure, teachers can never be fired, no matter how bad they are.
FACT: Tenure does not mean a "job for life," as many people believe. It means "just cause" for discipline and termination, be the reason incompetence or extreme misconduct. And it means "due process," the right to a fair hearing to contest charges. Quite simply, any tenured teacher can be fired for a legitimate reason, after school administrators prove their case. That's similar to what American citizens expect when charged with violation of a law.
MYTH: Unlike other professions, teachers get automatic raises, regardless of how well they perform their work.
FACT: Name a profession in which people earn less each year! Through collective bargaining or state legislation, most teachers are placed on a salary schedule with pay "steps" or "increments" for seniority -- seasoning -- on the job and added professional development.
Teachers never have a chance to stand still or go stale. They are rigorously evaluated, face recertification requirements, deal with ever-more-complex state and federal standards, and are expected to advance to the master's degree level and beyond.
A well-constructed salary schedule rewards classroom experience, promotes continued professional learning, and promotes both retention and recruitment of quality staff.
MYTH: If schools were allowed to grant merit pay, good teachers would be well compensated .
FACT: The fundamental problem is low teacher pay, period. Merit pay schemes are a weak answer to the national teacher compensation crisis.
Merit pay systems force teachers to compete, rather than cooperate. They create a disincentive for teachers to share information and teaching techniques. This is especially true because there is always a limited pool of money for merit pay. Thus, the number-one way teachers learn their craft --learning from their colleagues -- is effectively shut down. If you think we have turnover problems in teaching now, wait until new teachers have no one to turn to.
The single salary schedule is the fairest, best understood, and most widely used approach to teacher compensation -- in large part because it rewards the things that make a difference in teacher quality: knowledge and experience.
Plus, a salary schedule is a reliable predictor of future pay increases. Pay for performance plans are costly to taxpayers and difficult to administer. In contrast, single salary schedules have known costs and are easy to administer. School boards can more easily budget costs and need less time and money to evaluate employees and respond to grievances and arbitrations resulting from the evaluation system. Worse yet, there is often a lack of dedicated, ongoing funding for merit pay systems.
Merit pay begs the question of fairness and objectivity in teacher assessments and the kind of teacher performance that gets "captured" -- is it a full picture, or just a snapshot in time? Is teacher performance based on multiple measures of student achievement or simply standardized test scores? Are there teachers who are ineligible to participate in a merit plan because their field of expertise (art, music, etc.) is not subject to standardized tests?
By November 2006, 50 Texas schools rejected state grants to establish merit pay programs for teachers, tied to higher student test scores. Many schools reported that teachers opposed the idea or that administrators were reluctant to decide who should get a bonus and who shouldn't. Teachers at schools opposed to merit pay said it was not worth the extra money to break up the team spirit among teachers and spend time filling out paperwork for the program. In Bellaire, Texas, fifth grade science teacher Tammy Woods voiced her paperwork concern to the Dallas Morning News. "Most of us felt our time would be better spent working with the kids than working on the incentive-pay plan," she said. "We also felt there would be hard feelings no matter what happened because not everyone who worked to accomplish our goals would be rewarded."
MYTH: Teaching is easy -- anyone can do it.
FACT: Teachers, like many professionals, including accountants, engineers, and registered nurses, are trained, certified professionals. They have college degrees in education or in the subject that they teach plus a teaching credential.
More than half (57%) hold master's degrees, and all have completed extensive coursework in learning theory and educational practice. Most find that teaching is a calling and a gift, which includes a love of children and an ability to engage them in the learning process.
Education is also complex, demanding work that requires high levels of creativity, adaptability, thoughtful planning and resourcefulness -- much of which is learned from cumulative classroom experience.
While there are many experts who excel in their fields, most do not have the ability to translate that knowledge into teaching strategies useful in a classroom setting.
There you go, Koan, get yourself educated. Unless, of course you WANT to wallow in your prejudice and ignorance.
FACT: Although teachers have somewhat better health and pension benefits than do other professionals, these are offset partly by lower payroll taxes paid by employers (since some teachers are not in the Social Security system), according to the Economic Policy Institute (EPI).
Teachers have less premium pay (overtime and shift pay, for example), and less paid leave than do other professionals.
Teacher benefits have not improved relative to other professionals since 1994 (the earliest data EPI has on benefits), so the growth in the teacher wage
disadvantage has not been offset by improved benefits.
The benefits of other workers would not have declined as much in recent years if they had the protection of a union, collective bargaining, and an independent voice on the job -- like public school teachers.
MYTH: Thanks to tenure, teachers can never be fired, no matter how bad they are.
FACT: Tenure does not mean a "job for life," as many people believe. It means "just cause" for discipline and termination, be the reason incompetence or extreme misconduct. And it means "due process," the right to a fair hearing to contest charges. Quite simply, any tenured teacher can be fired for a legitimate reason, after school administrators prove their case. That's similar to what American citizens expect when charged with violation of a law.
MYTH: Unlike other professions, teachers get automatic raises, regardless of how well they perform their work.
FACT: Name a profession in which people earn less each year! Through collective bargaining or state legislation, most teachers are placed on a salary schedule with pay "steps" or "increments" for seniority -- seasoning -- on the job and added professional development.
Teachers never have a chance to stand still or go stale. They are rigorously evaluated, face recertification requirements, deal with ever-more-complex state and federal standards, and are expected to advance to the master's degree level and beyond.
A well-constructed salary schedule rewards classroom experience, promotes continued professional learning, and promotes both retention and recruitment of quality staff.
MYTH: If schools were allowed to grant merit pay, good teachers would be well compensated .
FACT: The fundamental problem is low teacher pay, period. Merit pay schemes are a weak answer to the national teacher compensation crisis.
Merit pay systems force teachers to compete, rather than cooperate. They create a disincentive for teachers to share information and teaching techniques. This is especially true because there is always a limited pool of money for merit pay. Thus, the number-one way teachers learn their craft --learning from their colleagues -- is effectively shut down. If you think we have turnover problems in teaching now, wait until new teachers have no one to turn to.
The single salary schedule is the fairest, best understood, and most widely used approach to teacher compensation -- in large part because it rewards the things that make a difference in teacher quality: knowledge and experience.
Plus, a salary schedule is a reliable predictor of future pay increases. Pay for performance plans are costly to taxpayers and difficult to administer. In contrast, single salary schedules have known costs and are easy to administer. School boards can more easily budget costs and need less time and money to evaluate employees and respond to grievances and arbitrations resulting from the evaluation system. Worse yet, there is often a lack of dedicated, ongoing funding for merit pay systems.
Merit pay begs the question of fairness and objectivity in teacher assessments and the kind of teacher performance that gets "captured" -- is it a full picture, or just a snapshot in time? Is teacher performance based on multiple measures of student achievement or simply standardized test scores? Are there teachers who are ineligible to participate in a merit plan because their field of expertise (art, music, etc.) is not subject to standardized tests?
By November 2006, 50 Texas schools rejected state grants to establish merit pay programs for teachers, tied to higher student test scores. Many schools reported that teachers opposed the idea or that administrators were reluctant to decide who should get a bonus and who shouldn't. Teachers at schools opposed to merit pay said it was not worth the extra money to break up the team spirit among teachers and spend time filling out paperwork for the program. In Bellaire, Texas, fifth grade science teacher Tammy Woods voiced her paperwork concern to the Dallas Morning News. "Most of us felt our time would be better spent working with the kids than working on the incentive-pay plan," she said. "We also felt there would be hard feelings no matter what happened because not everyone who worked to accomplish our goals would be rewarded."
MYTH: Teaching is easy -- anyone can do it.
FACT: Teachers, like many professionals, including accountants, engineers, and registered nurses, are trained, certified professionals. They have college degrees in education or in the subject that they teach plus a teaching credential.
More than half (57%) hold master's degrees, and all have completed extensive coursework in learning theory and educational practice. Most find that teaching is a calling and a gift, which includes a love of children and an ability to engage them in the learning process.
Education is also complex, demanding work that requires high levels of creativity, adaptability, thoughtful planning and resourcefulness -- much of which is learned from cumulative classroom experience.
While there are many experts who excel in their fields, most do not have the ability to translate that knowledge into teaching strategies useful in a classroom setting.
There you go, Koan, get yourself educated. Unless, of course you WANT to wallow in your prejudice and ignorance.
BC teachers on strike
One last shot to shut you down for good, Koan:
Today is a snow day for our district.
I'm here at school.
I drove through a blizzard, in four-wheel drive, on a day when our whole town is basically shut down, when I didn't have to...so that I could use this day to get extra time to prepare for next week's lessons.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Koan.
Today is a snow day for our district.
I'm here at school.
I drove through a blizzard, in four-wheel drive, on a day when our whole town is basically shut down, when I didn't have to...so that I could use this day to get extra time to prepare for next week's lessons.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Koan.
BC teachers on strike
I had to skim read there because nothing you said in your first reply is true of the public school teachers in BC. I'll come back and read it later when I have the patience for completely unproductive ranting.
The current polls show this to be an unpopular strike in public opinion.
The current polls show this to be an unpopular strike in public opinion.
BC teachers on strike
Actually, no need to reply to all that. I feel like you kind of proved my point. Teachers salaries start at $42-50 000 here. Their classroom sizes are exactly the same as the classroom sizes I was in twenty years ago. They get twice as many Professional Development days.
The part you're deliberately avoiding is where every other public sector has agreed to wage freezes except the teachers. If the teachers get a raise every other public sector will exercise their "me too" clause. So, what part of them not understanding the world everyone else is living in are you having trouble grasping?
The part you're deliberately avoiding is where every other public sector has agreed to wage freezes except the teachers. If the teachers get a raise every other public sector will exercise their "me too" clause. So, what part of them not understanding the world everyone else is living in are you having trouble grasping?
BC teachers on strike
This seems a pretty good summary of what most the BC taxpayers are thinking right now:
I'd like to think they found it hard to dig into troughs of righteous indignation and ask for a 15 per cent pay raise, when so many British Columbians are barely holding on to whatever life they've built.
Or maybe they have unfavourable opinions about peers who have the gall to gloss over serious and relevant issues about class size and composition, by heading to a protest on an overpass carrying a sign that says; "if you can read this, you're welcome."
Even those of us who lean left in apprehension as soon as Christy Clark and her minions open their mouths, get annoyed by such sentiments. So it's clear, if your students can read it's because you did the job you're compensated for doing by tax payers. If they can't read, you failed and should be fired.
Kelowna Capital News - Michaels: Do we really have to go through another government vs. teachers gong show?
I'd like to think they found it hard to dig into troughs of righteous indignation and ask for a 15 per cent pay raise, when so many British Columbians are barely holding on to whatever life they've built.
Or maybe they have unfavourable opinions about peers who have the gall to gloss over serious and relevant issues about class size and composition, by heading to a protest on an overpass carrying a sign that says; "if you can read this, you're welcome."
Even those of us who lean left in apprehension as soon as Christy Clark and her minions open their mouths, get annoyed by such sentiments. So it's clear, if your students can read it's because you did the job you're compensated for doing by tax payers. If they can't read, you failed and should be fired.
Kelowna Capital News - Michaels: Do we really have to go through another government vs. teachers gong show?
BC teachers on strike
I don't think the school systems teachers are the problem, I think it's the administrators and the parents who are the problems. Hell, teachers should get combat pay in some schools. The more the teachers strike, the better.
I'm beyond discussing teachers on strike, there are few individuals in the world that you can compare to them when it comes to what they do every school day. I think we need to rake the over paid administrators and dips**t parents over the coals for awhile. Grow some balls when it comes to parents who can't control their kids or worse yet don't even care about them. Cut staff in administration and the ridiculous salaries and give it to the people in the trenches, the teachers.
I'm beyond discussing teachers on strike, there are few individuals in the world that you can compare to them when it comes to what they do every school day. I think we need to rake the over paid administrators and dips**t parents over the coals for awhile. Grow some balls when it comes to parents who can't control their kids or worse yet don't even care about them. Cut staff in administration and the ridiculous salaries and give it to the people in the trenches, the teachers.
BC teachers on strike
I think the problem here is that their contract is combining the teachers' pay and benefits with items that regard classroom size standards and education quality issues. They should be entirely separate items.
The current contract request from the union is impossible because of the 15% pay raise. As a result, all the bits about environmental quality are being forced down their throats over an unchangeable wage issue. They need to split it into two items. Salary and benefits should be a stand alone contract.
The current contract request from the union is impossible because of the 15% pay raise. As a result, all the bits about environmental quality are being forced down their throats over an unchangeable wage issue. They need to split it into two items. Salary and benefits should be a stand alone contract.
BC teachers on strike
Education is a political issue. If that suffers or is curtailed in any way so does society. It's probably the most important thing a government can spend it's money on. Cut the politicians salaries and expenses bill down to the level of the average wage earner and let's see how many of them are in politics for vocational reasons.