Good example of Irony
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Accountable
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Oscar Namechange
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Good example of Irony
Love It !!!!
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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AnneBoleyn
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Good example of Irony
It is stupid. Sick of right-wing schitt.
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Accountable
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Good example of Irony
AnneBoleyn;1387183 wrote: It is stupid. Sick of right-wing schitt.
Giving a moment to get over your knee-jerk emotional reaction, di it ironic or not, in your opinion?
Giving a moment to get over your knee-jerk emotional reaction, di it ironic or not, in your opinion?
Good example of Irony
I like the photo.
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Oscar Namechange
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Good example of Irony
SnoozeAgain;1387187 wrote: I like the photo.
That's what I liked.
That's what I liked.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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AnneBoleyn
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Good example of Irony
Like oscar & snooze, of course I liked the photo! But............
Giving a moment to get over your knee-jerk emotional reaction, di it ironic or not, in your opinion?
No, not irony at all. Nasty sarcasm is what I see. An attempt to create division is what I see.
Giving a moment to get over your knee-jerk emotional reaction, di it ironic or not, in your opinion?
No, not irony at all. Nasty sarcasm is what I see. An attempt to create division is what I see.
Good example of Irony
A clever and thought provoking advert, but not necessarily totally true I suspect.
I doubt the Dept of Agriculture is 'Pleased to be distributing the greatest number of food stamps ever', they may be happy the system works, but not that the need is so great.
And The Park service is protecting the public by their advice, same as the Food Stamps Program, in a different way.
The only way the poster stands scrutiny, is if the people in dire need are equated to opportunist animals.
I doubt the Dept of Agriculture is 'Pleased to be distributing the greatest number of food stamps ever', they may be happy the system works, but not that the need is so great.
And The Park service is protecting the public by their advice, same as the Food Stamps Program, in a different way.
The only way the poster stands scrutiny, is if the people in dire need are equated to opportunist animals.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Accountable
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Good example of Irony
AnneBoleyn;1387190 wrote: Like oscar & snooze, of course I liked the photo! But............
No, not irony at all. Nasty sarcasm is what I see. An attempt to create division is what I see.
I would so love to divide people from their dependence on the corporate-owned government.
No, not irony at all. Nasty sarcasm is what I see. An attempt to create division is what I see.
I would so love to divide people from their dependence on the corporate-owned government.
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AnneBoleyn
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Good example of Irony
I would so love to divide people from their dependence on the corporate-owned government.
I like you. I can't allow you to :-5. Besides, the key word is corporate. They buy & sell us all, not just the government. The interference of corporations in our lives are costing us more rights than the government. The latest trend is your employer demanding things like your Facebook password, drug-testing (where not necessary for job performance) & other private issues. THEY burn you more than some poor schmuck fellow citizen. THEY love division. You are playing into their hands by spreading messages of them v. the rest of us. Divide & conquer.
I like you. I can't allow you to :-5. Besides, the key word is corporate. They buy & sell us all, not just the government. The interference of corporations in our lives are costing us more rights than the government. The latest trend is your employer demanding things like your Facebook password, drug-testing (where not necessary for job performance) & other private issues. THEY burn you more than some poor schmuck fellow citizen. THEY love division. You are playing into their hands by spreading messages of them v. the rest of us. Divide & conquer.
Good example of Irony
Says a great deal about how the right in america view people in food stamps.
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AnneBoleyn
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Good example of Irony
Says a great deal about how the right in america view people in food stamps.
Lotsa uninformed people here. For example, when the Tea Party first started their protests, they were shouting stuff like "Government, keep your hands off Medicare." Duh.
Lotsa uninformed people here. For example, when the Tea Party first started their protests, they were shouting stuff like "Government, keep your hands off Medicare." Duh.
Good example of Irony
I think the picture is cute but I don't think it's ironic at all. I agree with Anne, it's divisive. With the way things are going the number of people on food stamps or some form of government aid is going to increase. This isn't like Russia or Belarus where major portions of the people live independent of the system be it governmental or corporate.
Good example of Irony
Accountable;1387184 wrote: Giving a moment to get over your knee-jerk emotional reaction, di it ironic or not, in your opinion?It's not ironic because the primary argument that people will not work while on "government assistance" is completely false.
The real issue is how the system has been put in the position that it is to begin with and the OP fails for more than just one reason
1. Comparing people to animals is unethical and cynical
2. The value of money is continuously degraded which does not allow for an absolute definition as to it's "value in use"
3. Using necessities in place of currency refrains from such degradation which circles round to just how impracticable it would be for animals to need currency, which highlights the very unethical nature of money that ultimately serves as the antecedent to why exactly that money has been used to replace work(Which is entirely to do with degrading money to the point one makes money off of money which in turn serves to inflate necessities and eventuate the poor souls that cannot escape the cycle by virtue of divination). All of it being as circular as the OP's complete failure to move beyond a punchline that doesn't exist
The real issue is how the system has been put in the position that it is to begin with and the OP fails for more than just one reason
1. Comparing people to animals is unethical and cynical
2. The value of money is continuously degraded which does not allow for an absolute definition as to it's "value in use"
3. Using necessities in place of currency refrains from such degradation which circles round to just how impracticable it would be for animals to need currency, which highlights the very unethical nature of money that ultimately serves as the antecedent to why exactly that money has been used to replace work(Which is entirely to do with degrading money to the point one makes money off of money which in turn serves to inflate necessities and eventuate the poor souls that cannot escape the cycle by virtue of divination). All of it being as circular as the OP's complete failure to move beyond a punchline that doesn't exist
Good example of Irony
In the meantime, that poor bear is being defamed.
Good example of Irony
Accountable;1387195 wrote: I would so love to divide people from their dependence on the corporate-owned government.
Are people animals leading an isolated existence out in the wild or are they members of an integrated society dependent on that society for their existence?
For people to go into the wild as an outside agency disrupting the lives of the animals and their ability to maintain an independent existence is a mile away from human society supporting its own members who, as often as not, can no longer support themselves due to shifts created by the leaders of that society.
You're a teacher - could you support yourself and you family in the short term if society decided it no longer wished to teach its children? Far fetched? In 1984 our society decided it no longer wished to mine coal and closed the entire industry (and all of the support jobs so dumping entire communities onto the dole) within a couple of years - is that the "fault" of the people in those communities to the extent that they should be left to sink or swim or does society carry a responsibility to give them short term support whilst they find alternative employment?
Your "irony" is nothing of the sort - it's blatant political manipulation using triggers that they've been setting up over decades.
Are people animals leading an isolated existence out in the wild or are they members of an integrated society dependent on that society for their existence?
For people to go into the wild as an outside agency disrupting the lives of the animals and their ability to maintain an independent existence is a mile away from human society supporting its own members who, as often as not, can no longer support themselves due to shifts created by the leaders of that society.
You're a teacher - could you support yourself and you family in the short term if society decided it no longer wished to teach its children? Far fetched? In 1984 our society decided it no longer wished to mine coal and closed the entire industry (and all of the support jobs so dumping entire communities onto the dole) within a couple of years - is that the "fault" of the people in those communities to the extent that they should be left to sink or swim or does society carry a responsibility to give them short term support whilst they find alternative employment?
Your "irony" is nothing of the sort - it's blatant political manipulation using triggers that they've been setting up over decades.
Good example of Irony
Irony is a tricky thing to nail.
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AnneBoleyn
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Good example of Irony
Bryn, I liked your answer very much. The example of the coal industry is a good one.
Good example of Irony
AnneBoleyn;1387241 wrote: Bryn, I liked your answer very much. The example of the coal industry is a good one.
When the power struggle that resulted from the clash of personalities between a politician and a union leader can result in half a million people loosing their jobs and several counties loosing their main form of employment (for those of you in the US, imagine three million workers being laid off in five or six states where there is little other industry) then you realise that being on the dole is not necessarily the fault of the unemployed.
When the selling of sub-prime mortgages on another continent can cause a global depression that puts millions out of work you know that life's a lottery.
There, but for the grace of God, go I.
When the power struggle that resulted from the clash of personalities between a politician and a union leader can result in half a million people loosing their jobs and several counties loosing their main form of employment (for those of you in the US, imagine three million workers being laid off in five or six states where there is little other industry) then you realise that being on the dole is not necessarily the fault of the unemployed.
When the selling of sub-prime mortgages on another continent can cause a global depression that puts millions out of work you know that life's a lottery.
There, but for the grace of God, go I.
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Accountable
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Good example of Irony
AnneBoleyn;1387198 wrote: I like you. I can't allow you to :-5. Besides, the key word is corporate. They buy & sell us all, not just the government. The interference of corporations in our lives are costing us more rights than the government. The latest trend is your employer demanding things like your Facebook password, drug-testing (where not necessary for job performance) & other private issues. THEY burn you more than some poor schmuck fellow citizen. THEY love division. You are playing into their hands by spreading messages of them v. the rest of us. Divide & conquer.Sorry, the key word is dependence. My post, my key word. The more independent we can become, of both the government and their owners (our owners, if you insist), the less power they have over us. This compulsion for ceding more and more of our liberty in exchange for being taken care of is exactly what allows the interference you complain about.
You misread my post. I'm trying to eliminate the division, not widen it.
You misread my post. I'm trying to eliminate the division, not widen it.
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Accountable
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Good example of Irony
Bryn Mawr;1387235 wrote: Are people animals leading an isolated existence out in the wild or are they members of an integrated society dependent on that society for their existence?Are those my only two options?
Bryn Mawr;1387235 wrote: For people to go into the wild as an outside agency disrupting the lives of the animals and their ability to maintain an independent existence is a mile away from human society supporting its own members who, as often as not, can no longer support themselves due to shifts created by the leaders of that society.So you see total dependence on the government for all support, without the need to supplement or incentive to supplant that support, as a good thing? Because this is the situation we are headed for in the US.
Bryn Mawr;1387235 wrote: You're a teacher - could you support yourself and you family in the short term if society decided it no longer wished to teach its children? Yes.
Bryn Mawr;1387235 wrote: Far fetched?Yes.
Bryn Mawr;1387235 wrote: In 1984 our society decided it no longer wished to mine coal and closed the entire industry (and all of the support jobs so dumping entire communities onto the dole) within a couple of years - is that the "fault" of the people in those communities to the extent that they should be left to sink or swim or does society carry a responsibility to give them short term support whilst they find alternative employment?No it's not. I didn't imply anything like that. I'm sorry you misconstrued my meaning. I hope my response to Anne cleared it up.
Bryn Mawr;1387235 wrote: For people to go into the wild as an outside agency disrupting the lives of the animals and their ability to maintain an independent existence is a mile away from human society supporting its own members who, as often as not, can no longer support themselves due to shifts created by the leaders of that society.So you see total dependence on the government for all support, without the need to supplement or incentive to supplant that support, as a good thing? Because this is the situation we are headed for in the US.
Bryn Mawr;1387235 wrote: You're a teacher - could you support yourself and you family in the short term if society decided it no longer wished to teach its children? Yes.
Bryn Mawr;1387235 wrote: Far fetched?Yes.
Bryn Mawr;1387235 wrote: In 1984 our society decided it no longer wished to mine coal and closed the entire industry (and all of the support jobs so dumping entire communities onto the dole) within a couple of years - is that the "fault" of the people in those communities to the extent that they should be left to sink or swim or does society carry a responsibility to give them short term support whilst they find alternative employment?No it's not. I didn't imply anything like that. I'm sorry you misconstrued my meaning. I hope my response to Anne cleared it up.
Good example of Irony
I see the irony.
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
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AnneBoleyn
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Good example of Irony
You misread my post. I'm trying to eliminate the division, not widen it.
How do you expect to eliminate division by using derision? Are you going to mock & ridicule people into seeing your point of view? That certainly will widen the gap. It's not the old days. Rent has not been 25% of income for decades. Food prices have soared. People with kids would like to feed their kids. Now, I would rather see rent, etc. go way down & for food prices to go way down. But they won't. Not supposed to control prices in a free-market, so up they go, until the only way to live & shop is to squat & loot. Not a pretty picture.
How do you expect to eliminate division by using derision? Are you going to mock & ridicule people into seeing your point of view? That certainly will widen the gap. It's not the old days. Rent has not been 25% of income for decades. Food prices have soared. People with kids would like to feed their kids. Now, I would rather see rent, etc. go way down & for food prices to go way down. But they won't. Not supposed to control prices in a free-market, so up they go, until the only way to live & shop is to squat & loot. Not a pretty picture.
Good example of Irony
Accountable;1387253 wrote: Are those my only two options?
They we not options, they were descriptions of the portrayal and the reality.
Accountable;1387253 wrote: So you see total dependence on the government for all support, without the need to supplement or incentive to supplant that support, as a good thing? Because this is the situation we are headed for in the US.
No, I see the short term support of those in difficulty due to factors outside of their control as a necessary function of a civilised society and I see the portrayal of such people as dependent animals insulting.
Accountable;1387253 wrote: Yes.
Lucky you - I reckon I could last a year in those circumstances and that would in no way be long enough to pull through that level of disruption.
Accountable;1387253 wrote: Yes.
How so given the example of exactly that happening.
Accountable;1387253 wrote: No it's not. I didn't imply anything like that. I'm sorry you misconstrued my meaning. I hope my response to Anne cleared it up.
That might have been your meaning but it certainly isn't the meaning of the image you posted.
They we not options, they were descriptions of the portrayal and the reality.
Accountable;1387253 wrote: So you see total dependence on the government for all support, without the need to supplement or incentive to supplant that support, as a good thing? Because this is the situation we are headed for in the US.
No, I see the short term support of those in difficulty due to factors outside of their control as a necessary function of a civilised society and I see the portrayal of such people as dependent animals insulting.
Accountable;1387253 wrote: Yes.
Lucky you - I reckon I could last a year in those circumstances and that would in no way be long enough to pull through that level of disruption.
Accountable;1387253 wrote: Yes.
How so given the example of exactly that happening.
Accountable;1387253 wrote: No it's not. I didn't imply anything like that. I'm sorry you misconstrued my meaning. I hope my response to Anne cleared it up.
That might have been your meaning but it certainly isn't the meaning of the image you posted.
Good example of Irony
posted by accountable
So you see total dependence on the government for all support, without the need to supplement or incentive to supplant that support, as a good thing? Because this is the situation we are headed for in the US
Well if it's good enough for the bankers why not everybody? Support your local banker for the good of all. Steal a loaf of bread and you go to jail, steal millions and you become a hero and people make films about you.
So you see total dependence on the government for all support, without the need to supplement or incentive to supplant that support, as a good thing? Because this is the situation we are headed for in the US
Well if it's good enough for the bankers why not everybody? Support your local banker for the good of all. Steal a loaf of bread and you go to jail, steal millions and you become a hero and people make films about you.
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Accountable
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Good example of Irony
AnneBoleyn;1387308 wrote: How do you expect to eliminate division by using derision? Are you going to mock & ridicule people into seeing your point of view?
If you'll notice, the op said not one word about the recipient, only that the gov't was proud to have so many dependents.
Any mocking & ridiculing of the recipients is purely in your own head.
If you'll notice, the op said not one word about the recipient, only that the gov't was proud to have so many dependents.
Any mocking & ridiculing of the recipients is purely in your own head.
Good example of Irony
Accountable;1387346 wrote: If you'll notice, the op said not one word about the recipient, only that the gov't was proud to have so many dependents.
Any mocking & ridiculing of the recipients is purely in your own head.
Do you not read the sub-text - because it is available there are ever more people holding their hands out?
Try an alternative reading - because the economy is screwed there are ever more people in need of it.
Any mocking & ridiculing of the recipients is purely in your own head.
Do you not read the sub-text - because it is available there are ever more people holding their hands out?
Try an alternative reading - because the economy is screwed there are ever more people in need of it.
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Accountable
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Good example of Irony
Bryn Mawr;1387348 wrote: Do you not read the sub-text - because it is available there are ever more people holding their hands out?
Try an alternative reading - because the economy is screwed there are ever more people in need of it.The corporatocracy wants us all to be dependent on them, therefore on the government. You may see this as a good thing, but I prefer liberty. Read whatever subtext you want that makes you feel better. It is not good for America when her people to cede so much to the state.
Try an alternative reading - because the economy is screwed there are ever more people in need of it.The corporatocracy wants us all to be dependent on them, therefore on the government. You may see this as a good thing, but I prefer liberty. Read whatever subtext you want that makes you feel better. It is not good for America when her people to cede so much to the state.
Good example of Irony
Accountable;1387352 wrote: The corporatocracy wants us all to be dependent on them, therefore on the government. You may see this as a good thing, but I prefer liberty. Read whatever subtext you want that makes you feel better. It is not good for America when her people to cede so much to the state.
Where does the picture reference or imply ceding anything to the state - it is a direct attack on those who rely on food stamps whatever the reason they do so.
By all means curse the corporatocracy for destroying our ability to support ourselves but, please, do not do so by attacking the victims - go for the perpetrators.
Where does the picture reference or imply ceding anything to the state - it is a direct attack on those who rely on food stamps whatever the reason they do so.
By all means curse the corporatocracy for destroying our ability to support ourselves but, please, do not do so by attacking the victims - go for the perpetrators.
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Accountable
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Good example of Irony
Bryn Mawr;1387354 wrote: Where does the picture reference or imply ceding anything to the state - it is a direct attack on those who rely on food stamps whatever the reason they do so.No, it isn't.
Bryn Mawr;1387354 wrote: By all means curse the corporatocracy for destroying our ability to support ourselves but, please, do not do so by attacking the victims - go for the perpetrators.
The perpetrators are the ones who are so pleased to be distributing the greated amount of food stamps ever. They are the ONLY ones mentioned in the poster regarding food stamps.
Stop attacking me for your imagined slights.
Bryn Mawr;1387354 wrote: By all means curse the corporatocracy for destroying our ability to support ourselves but, please, do not do so by attacking the victims - go for the perpetrators.
The perpetrators are the ones who are so pleased to be distributing the greated amount of food stamps ever. They are the ONLY ones mentioned in the poster regarding food stamps.
Stop attacking me for your imagined slights.
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fuzzywuzzy
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Good example of Irony
AnneBoleyn;1387198 wrote: I like you. I can't allow you to :-5. Besides, the key word is corporate. They buy & sell us all, not just the government. The interference of corporations in our lives are costing us more rights than the government. The latest trend is your employer demanding things like your Facebook password, drug-testing (where not necessary for job performance) & other private issues. THEY burn you more than some poor schmuck fellow citizen. THEY love division. You are playing into their hands by spreading messages of them v. the rest of us. Divide & conquer.
Lets never forget what they really think .
"I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half.".............. Jay Gould.
There are a lot of Jay goulds around now . Jay Gould - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Lets never forget what they really think .
"I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half.".............. Jay Gould.
There are a lot of Jay goulds around now . Jay Gould - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Good example of Irony
The op is an assumption that most people on food stamps are undeserving which isn't much less noble than to slander all of the poorest of people in this country
Good example of Irony
Accountable;1387352 wrote: The corporatocracy wants us all to be dependent on them, therefore on the government. You may see this as a good thing, but I prefer liberty. Read whatever subtext you want that makes you feel better. It is not good for America when her people to cede so much to the state.
Why is it better for america to cede so much power to big corporations? Now you have companies arguing, in all seriousness, that they have the right to determine what medical treatments their employees can have. Why would you want to be o dependent on an employer for things like medical care? It's that much harder to resist unfair practices at work if you can just be fired and as a result loss all ability to pay for medical care. What you have is the modern day equivalent of the company store.
Who is this government you are so afraid of? At least you have some say in who it is and what they do which is more than you can say for big corporations who have systematically stripped away the states ability to protect it's citizens from the excesses of greedy employers. Who do you think should set the agenda in american politics - an elected government of the people or a cartel of big corporations pulling the strings of government because the latter is what you seem to have. The "state" in america is not some obscure body you vote for it you control it. There will always be those who prefer fascism to freedom and democracy, when push comes to shove you can end up fighting about it. Which side of the battle are you on? In some ways I think the US is about fifty years behind the rest of the western world, you didn't really have the same argument and the right have won what there was. Power to the people - a universal rallying cry or socialism and something to be feared.
Sadly we are going the same way now they are talking about water cannon in case the peasants revolt again.
Why is it better for america to cede so much power to big corporations? Now you have companies arguing, in all seriousness, that they have the right to determine what medical treatments their employees can have. Why would you want to be o dependent on an employer for things like medical care? It's that much harder to resist unfair practices at work if you can just be fired and as a result loss all ability to pay for medical care. What you have is the modern day equivalent of the company store.
Who is this government you are so afraid of? At least you have some say in who it is and what they do which is more than you can say for big corporations who have systematically stripped away the states ability to protect it's citizens from the excesses of greedy employers. Who do you think should set the agenda in american politics - an elected government of the people or a cartel of big corporations pulling the strings of government because the latter is what you seem to have. The "state" in america is not some obscure body you vote for it you control it. There will always be those who prefer fascism to freedom and democracy, when push comes to shove you can end up fighting about it. Which side of the battle are you on? In some ways I think the US is about fifty years behind the rest of the western world, you didn't really have the same argument and the right have won what there was. Power to the people - a universal rallying cry or socialism and something to be feared.
Sadly we are going the same way now they are talking about water cannon in case the peasants revolt again.
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Accountable
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Good example of Irony
gmc;1387431 wrote: Why is it better for america to cede so much power to big corporations?It's not, and I said as much in the very post you quoted.
gmc;1387431 wrote: Now you have companies arguing, in all seriousness, that they have the right to determine what medical treatments their employees can have.Not to defend the companies, but the debate isn't over what medical treatments their employees can have, but what medical treatments the employer has to pay for. Big difference.
gmc;1387431 wrote: Why would you want to be o dependent on an employer for things like medical care?I wouldn't.
gmc;1387431 wrote: It's that much harder to resist unfair practices at work if you can just be fired and as a result loss all ability to pay for medical care. What you have is the modern day equivalent of the company store. I agree, and implied as much in the post you quote.
gmc;1387431 wrote: Who is this government you are so afraid of? the one currently under complete control of the corporatocracy.
gmc;1387431 wrote: At least you have some say in who it is and what they do which is more than you can say for big corporations who have systematically stripped away the states ability to protect it's citizens from the excesses of greedy employers. Who do you think should set the agenda in american politics - an elected government of the people or a cartel of big corporations pulling the strings of government because the latter is what you seem to have. The "state" in america is not some obscure body you vote for it you control it.The corporatocracy currently controls who gets on the ballot.
gmc;1387431 wrote: There will always be those who prefer fascism to freedom and democracy, when push comes to shove you can end up fighting about it. Which side of the battle are you on? In some ways I think the US is about fifty years behind the rest of the western world, you didn't really have the same argument and the right have won what there was. Power to the people - a universal rallying cry or socialism and something to be feared. You lost me here.
gmc;1387431 wrote: Sadly we are going the same way now they are talking about water cannon in case the peasants revolt again.
Then maybe it's time for revolt.
gmc;1387431 wrote: Now you have companies arguing, in all seriousness, that they have the right to determine what medical treatments their employees can have.Not to defend the companies, but the debate isn't over what medical treatments their employees can have, but what medical treatments the employer has to pay for. Big difference.
gmc;1387431 wrote: Why would you want to be o dependent on an employer for things like medical care?I wouldn't.
gmc;1387431 wrote: It's that much harder to resist unfair practices at work if you can just be fired and as a result loss all ability to pay for medical care. What you have is the modern day equivalent of the company store. I agree, and implied as much in the post you quote.
gmc;1387431 wrote: Who is this government you are so afraid of? the one currently under complete control of the corporatocracy.
gmc;1387431 wrote: At least you have some say in who it is and what they do which is more than you can say for big corporations who have systematically stripped away the states ability to protect it's citizens from the excesses of greedy employers. Who do you think should set the agenda in american politics - an elected government of the people or a cartel of big corporations pulling the strings of government because the latter is what you seem to have. The "state" in america is not some obscure body you vote for it you control it.The corporatocracy currently controls who gets on the ballot.
gmc;1387431 wrote: There will always be those who prefer fascism to freedom and democracy, when push comes to shove you can end up fighting about it. Which side of the battle are you on? In some ways I think the US is about fifty years behind the rest of the western world, you didn't really have the same argument and the right have won what there was. Power to the people - a universal rallying cry or socialism and something to be feared. You lost me here.
gmc;1387431 wrote: Sadly we are going the same way now they are talking about water cannon in case the peasants revolt again.
Then maybe it's time for revolt.
Good example of Irony
posted by accountable
It's not, and I said as much in the very post you quoted
I'm not expressing myself very well I many americans in general not you in particular. I don;t understand why people aren't up in arms about what is going on and is being done to them by big corporations.
Not to defend the companies, but the debate isn't over what medical treatments their employees can have, but what medical treatments the employer has to pay for. Big difference.
Splitting semantic hairs there I think. You don't have freedom of choice if an employer can dictate what treatment you get by refusing to pay for it.
You lost me here.
The left won the argument here - we have a welfare state in the states the right stopped the debate cold with scares about communism even having a ceremonial burning at the stake in font of the mccarthy commission for those who would not conform.
Then maybe it's time for revolt.
I think we're going to have to, never mind I'm voting for a socialist scotland
It's not, and I said as much in the very post you quoted
I'm not expressing myself very well I many americans in general not you in particular. I don;t understand why people aren't up in arms about what is going on and is being done to them by big corporations.
Not to defend the companies, but the debate isn't over what medical treatments their employees can have, but what medical treatments the employer has to pay for. Big difference.
Splitting semantic hairs there I think. You don't have freedom of choice if an employer can dictate what treatment you get by refusing to pay for it.
You lost me here.
The left won the argument here - we have a welfare state in the states the right stopped the debate cold with scares about communism even having a ceremonial burning at the stake in font of the mccarthy commission for those who would not conform.
Then maybe it's time for revolt.
I think we're going to have to, never mind I'm voting for a socialist scotland
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Good example of Irony
gmc;1387453 wrote: I'm not expressing myself very well I many americans in general not you in particular. I don;t understand why people aren't up in arms about what is going on and is being done to them by big corporations.I don't understand it, either. The balance hasn't tipped yet, I guess. People still get enough treats so that they don't notice (or at least don't mind) that they're being slowly enslaved. I'm picturing the frog in a pot now.
gmc;1387453 wrote: Splitting semantic hairs there I think. You don't have freedom of choice if an employer can dictate what treatment you get by refusing to pay for it. Not splitting hairs in the least. People have the freedom of choice, if only they'd take it. Employers used to provide nothing more than medical care to take care of injuries on the job, and most were fine with it. Then some companies started offering more comprehensive healthcare as percs for their most valued employees. People thought it was a great benefit, but certainly not a right. Now it's devolved into a legal requirement that employers provide insurance whether they want to or not, and people seem to think it's in our Constitution somewhere that we have the right to it. We're suddenly back full circle to the company town & company store days.
But make no mistake. Anyone in the US can get any healthcare without an employer/noble giving permission. Employers do not decide what medical treatments their employees can have. The pit people fall into is thinking they must depend on the employer's largess rather than budgeting for emergencies and preparing for independence should they need it.
That's your cue for crying about how it's impossible not to be dependent.
gmc;1387453 wrote: Splitting semantic hairs there I think. You don't have freedom of choice if an employer can dictate what treatment you get by refusing to pay for it. Not splitting hairs in the least. People have the freedom of choice, if only they'd take it. Employers used to provide nothing more than medical care to take care of injuries on the job, and most were fine with it. Then some companies started offering more comprehensive healthcare as percs for their most valued employees. People thought it was a great benefit, but certainly not a right. Now it's devolved into a legal requirement that employers provide insurance whether they want to or not, and people seem to think it's in our Constitution somewhere that we have the right to it. We're suddenly back full circle to the company town & company store days.
But make no mistake. Anyone in the US can get any healthcare without an employer/noble giving permission. Employers do not decide what medical treatments their employees can have. The pit people fall into is thinking they must depend on the employer's largess rather than budgeting for emergencies and preparing for independence should they need it.
That's your cue for crying about how it's impossible not to be dependent.
Good example of Irony
Perhaps Regina Herzlinger is worth a read Publication - Regina E. Herzlinger
“Mrs Herzlinger is America's leading advocate of market-driven, consumer-orientated health reform. She wants a national system which requires individuals to buy health insurance, with help in the form of tax breaks for all punters, and subsidies for the poorest. She wants insurance prices to be risk-adjusted and hospitals to be free to charge what they like so they can offer new services as the market demands. Most importantly, she wants the government to demand transparency of price and quality from this notoriously murky industry.”-The Economist http://www.mhprofessional.com/product.p ... 0071487808
It's obvious America's health care system is failing and it's obvious to me why. It's the monopoly of services held by the providers and too little emphasis on coming together as a team to treat patients. Every doctor is his or her own specialist and every visit is preceded by long waits only to then be subjected to the exact same tests previously conducted by another doctor (without a guarantee they'd all come to the same conclusions either)
No one is talking about the government taking over anything. That's extreme leftist clap trap. It's nationwide health coverage for those that are unable to afford it with incentives coming from more options becoming available to drive down health care costs.
Jesus, after all of this about how wondrous America is for us to still be so damn closed minded and behind by 100 years...We're talking about mandating by law to prevent abortions and somehow this is exempt? If it wasn't at least I could follow some sort of train of logic but it seems more evident to me that the discussions going on this country atm is nothing more than one big pile of rural cow ****!
“Mrs Herzlinger is America's leading advocate of market-driven, consumer-orientated health reform. She wants a national system which requires individuals to buy health insurance, with help in the form of tax breaks for all punters, and subsidies for the poorest. She wants insurance prices to be risk-adjusted and hospitals to be free to charge what they like so they can offer new services as the market demands. Most importantly, she wants the government to demand transparency of price and quality from this notoriously murky industry.”-The Economist http://www.mhprofessional.com/product.p ... 0071487808
It's obvious America's health care system is failing and it's obvious to me why. It's the monopoly of services held by the providers and too little emphasis on coming together as a team to treat patients. Every doctor is his or her own specialist and every visit is preceded by long waits only to then be subjected to the exact same tests previously conducted by another doctor (without a guarantee they'd all come to the same conclusions either)
No one is talking about the government taking over anything. That's extreme leftist clap trap. It's nationwide health coverage for those that are unable to afford it with incentives coming from more options becoming available to drive down health care costs.
Jesus, after all of this about how wondrous America is for us to still be so damn closed minded and behind by 100 years...We're talking about mandating by law to prevent abortions and somehow this is exempt? If it wasn't at least I could follow some sort of train of logic but it seems more evident to me that the discussions going on this country atm is nothing more than one big pile of rural cow ****!
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Good example of Irony
I don't think you know the definition of monopoly.
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Good example of Irony
:wah:
Good example of Irony
Accountable;1387490 wrote: I don't think you know the definition of monopoly.
You "don't think" is right
You "don't think" is right