There Is No Such A Thing As God.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:43 am

Pappy;1390081 wrote: What proof do you have that he does? None. Define god? Without moving goalpost please. If no one here can define god then whats the use in trying to prove an infinite number of negatives. If god wrote and said all he did and his word is final and without change or contradiction then how come for example there are 3000 different sects of christianity each claiming to know what this god wants? Matthew 7:7 "ask and you shall receive" really? How many times will you ask before you get it? There is a greater chance you will get nothing!

It was a perfectly reasonable request - you have repeatedly stated as a fact that God does not exist so what proof do you have that it is so?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:59 am

Bryn Mawr;1390142 wrote: It was a perfectly reasonable request - you have repeatedly stated as a fact that God does not exist so what proof do you have that it is so?The evidence is all around us, unless one wants to admit that God is not very smart or kind or loving or good. If that be the case well then lets all just go crazy because God is crazy anyway and we're all just the toys of a very sick entity.

Pappy · Post by **Pappy** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:05 am

The very fact that no one here can present anything but personal experience testifies to the fact its a head game.

rajakrsna · Post by **rajakrsna** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:14 am

Ahso!;1390148 wrote: The evidence is all around us, unless one wants to admit that God is not very smart or kind or loving or good. If that be the case well then lets all just go crazy because God is crazy anyway and we're all just the toys of a very sick entity.

Can I take your blood pressure? Are you a diabetic? Are you allergic to sea foods? have you ever been admitted in the hospital? Were you sane when you married your wife? If God has become crazy it`s because of you.

rajakrsna · Post by **rajakrsna** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:22 am

Pappy;1390150 wrote: The very fact that no one here can present anything but personal experience testifies to the fact its a head game.

God is a person. God can be proven he exist from our personal experience. If you have not experienced God in your personal life it is simply because you closed the door for God to come into your life. So, if you want God to come into your life then you open that door & invite him now!

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:46 am

Ahso!;1390148 wrote: The evidence is all around us, unless one wants to admit that God is not very smart or kind or loving or good. If that be the case well then lets all just go crazy because God is crazy anyway and we're all just the toys of a very sick entity.

Unless? In a proof?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:49 am

Pappy;1390150 wrote: The very fact that no one here can present anything but personal experience testifies to the fact its a head game.

Hardly rigorous :wah:

You've been giving out opinions as statements of fact, I would expect you to have more reasoning behind them than that.

Or is it an article of faith with you that God cannot exist - something accepted without proof?

Infinite Stop · Post by **Infinite Stop** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:06 am

Pappy;1390150 wrote: The very fact that no one here can present anything but personal experience testifies to the fact its a head game.

I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish by calling revelation a "head game." I guess one could label just about anything a head game if they wanted. But such a label doesn't steer us in any direction, good or bad. Could you be more specific in your objection(s) to anything I may have said in regard to revelation as being the only means of knowing God?

Infinite Stop · Post by **Infinite Stop** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:08 am

rajakrsna;1390162 wrote: God is a person. God can be proven he exist from our personal experience. If you have not experienced God in your personal life it is simply because you closed the door for God to come into your life. So, if you want God to come into your life then you open that door & invite him now!

Since when did you get so smart? LOL

Pappy · Post by **Pappy** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:54 am

Bryn Mawr;1390176 wrote: Hardly rigorous :wah:

You've been giving out opinions as statements of fact, I would expect you to have more reasoning behind them than that.

Or is it an article of faith with you that God cannot exist - something accepted without proof?

Prove God exists. Smart ass answers don't cut it. Now frigging BAN me!

Infinite Stop · Post by **Infinite Stop** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:37 am

Pappy;1390514 wrote: Prove God exists. Smart ass answers don't cut it. Now frigging BAN me!

If you'd been following this thread, you'd know that there is no proof of God independent a personal revelation. You might as well ask Bryn if he's had his experience of God yet, since outside such an experience proof is not possible. That's what this thread is about.

Vrindavana Das · Post by **Vrindavana Das** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:45 pm

Ahso!;1390098 wrote: Yes it does, nonexistence is never challenged or shown to be incorrect.

'Inability-to-experience' is no proof of 'non-existence'.

Because I cannot see an atom, does that mean atoms do not exist! It is imperfection of the human senses, thus we cannot see the atom. Is it not?

We have all the evidence in the world, take your pick. It's believers who refuse to acknowledge the evidence.

Your saying that 'there is all evidence' is absolutely no evidence. Where are the evidences you have given for me to take a pick? Please provide an example to prove your point. Till then it is just your word against mine!

rajakrsna · Post by **rajakrsna** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:01 pm

Dear Vrndavan das,

Ahso knows. He knows there`s a God. He is just, like me, enjoying himself here.

Rajakrsna

Vrindavana Das · Post by **Vrindavana Das** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:09 pm

rajakrsna;1390717 wrote: dear vrndavan das,

ahso knows. He knows there`s a god. He is just, like me, enjoying himself here.

Rajakrsna

lol

Vrindavana Das · Post by **Vrindavana Das** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:12 pm

rajakrsna;1390717 wrote: dear vrndavan das,

ahso knows. He knows there`s a god. He is just, like me, enjoying himself here.

Rajakrsna

...

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:23 am

rajakrsna;1390717 wrote: Dear Vrndavan das,

Ahso knows. He knows there`s a God. He is just, like me, enjoying himself here.

Rajakrsna

I know he knows you know they know she knows I said he said she said they said they know you know he knows they know I said she said I know he knows she knows you said he said they said I said you know that you talk a bunch of bull

rajakrsna · Post by **rajakrsna** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:50 am

littleCJelkton;1390897 wrote: I know he knows you know they know she knows I said he said she said they said they know you know he knows they know I said she said I know he knows she knows you said he said they said I said you know that you talk a bunch of bull

Write me something that would convince me of your conviction.

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:48 pm

rajakrsna;1390904 wrote: Write me something that would convince me of your conviction.

I don't need to convince you of anything to prove that I am just as good (not better) of a human being as you or anyone else nor does anyone else here have to.

I don't have to believe there is a god in order to treat people with the respect and dignity I expect from them.

I don't need to know you believe in the exact same ideals as I do to call you a friend. For anybody to do otherwise to me shows what little they think of the world they are in and/or about their-self

I don't know about AHSO but,

I don't need you telling me or anyone else what I believe in as I know full well what I believe in better than you ever could, and if I want to tell someone I can do it myself.

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:55 pm

Vrindavana Das;1390715 wrote: 'Inability-to-experience' is no proof of 'non-existence'.

Because I cannot see an atom, does that mean atoms do not exist! It is imperfection of the human senses, thus we cannot see the atom. Is it not?

We can experience "see" atoms

with an electron microscope

Vrindavana Das · Post by **Vrindavana Das** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:27 pm

littleCJelkton;1390976 wrote: We can experience "see" atoms

with an electron microscope

The point, CJ, is that atoms existed even before the invention of electron microscope. Science could not prove it, but atoms were a reality even then.

Science itself is learning and is evolving. There are many phenomenons in our material world alone (not to say anything of the universe) which science cannot explain. Expecting such a science to prove the existence of God, who is spiritual and not material, is childish.

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:08 pm

Vrindavana Das;1390980 wrote: The point, CJ, is that atoms existed even before the invention of electron microscope. Science could not prove it, but atoms were a reality even then.

Science itself is learning and is evolving. There are many phenomenons in our material world alone (not to say anything of the universe) which science cannot explain. Expecting such a science to prove the existence of God, who is spiritual and not material, is childish.

It is also childish to think that something spiritual witch is not material can be material without the science being there to prove it to be so.

Vrindavana Das · Post by **Vrindavana Das** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:52 pm

littleCJelkton;1390981 wrote: It is also childish to think that something spiritual witch is not material can be material without the science being there to prove it to be so.

Even if we agree that God is not spiritual but material and there is no science to prove it to be so, that still does not contradict God's existence. It only proves that we agree that science cannot prove everything.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:16 pm

Pappy;1390514 wrote: Prove God exists. Smart ass answers don't cut it. Now frigging BAN me!

Why? Is that how you normally experience forums? It certainly is not the way we work round here.

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:53 pm

Vrindavana Das;1390982 wrote: Even if we agree that God is not spiritual but material and there is no science to prove it to be so, that still does not contradict God's existence. It only proves that we agree that science cannot prove everything.

No and what point will it prove if he is or isn't real?

Why does the possibility of an entity being real or not that can't be proven to be real or not dictate the actions others take and the way in which they treat others?

If you want to hold a different belief than I do than so be it, but only if those ideals don't prohibit you from treating me with the same dignity and respect as you would to some one who shares you ideals.

For some reason a LOT of Religious fanatics I meet have beliefs that prohibit them from treating everybody as equal, and it is this drive to show that spiritual is material that I see as the root cause of it.

Vrindavana Das · Post by **Vrindavana Das** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:40 pm

littleCJelkton;1391037 wrote: No and what point will it prove if he is or isn't real?

Why does the possibility of an entity being real or not that can't be proven to be real or not dictate the actions others take and the way in which they treat others?

If you want to hold a different belief than I do than so be it, but only if those ideals don't prohibit you from treating me with the same dignity and respect as you would to some one who shares you ideals.

For some reason a LOT of Religious fanatics I meet have beliefs that prohibit them from treating everybody as equal, and it is this drive to show that spiritual is material that I see as the root cause of it.

I do not know about others.

What God about respecting osays is as under:

mumukṣavo ghora-rūpān

hitvā bhūta-patīn atha

nārāyaṇa-kalāḥ śāntā

bhajanti hy anasūyavaḥ

Those who are serious about liberation are certainly nonenvious, and they respect all. Yet they reject the horrible and ghastly forms of the demigods and worship only the all-blissful forms of Lord Viṣṇu and His plenary portions.

Also,

sarvāṇi mad-dhiṣṇyatayā bhavadbhiś

carāṇi bhūtāni sutā dhruvāṇi

sambhāvitavyāni pade pade vo

vivikta-dṛgbhis tad u hārhaṇaḿ me

My dear sons, you should not envy any living entity — be he moving or nonmoving. Knowing that I am situated in them, you should offer respect to all of them at every moment. In this way, you offer respect to Me.

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:13 pm

Vrindavana Das;1391043 wrote: I do not know about others.

What God about respecting osays is as under:

mumukṣavo ghora-rūpān

hitvā bhūta-patīn atha

nārāyaṇa-kalāḥ śāntā

bhajanti hy anasūyavaḥ

Those who are serious about liberation are certainly nonenvious, and they respect all. Yet they reject the horrible and ghastly forms of the demigods and worship only the all-blissful forms of Lord Viṣṇu and His plenary portions.

Also,

sarvāṇi mad-dhiṣṇyatayā bhavadbhiś

carāṇi bhūtāni sutā dhruvāṇi

sambhāvitavyāni pade pade vo

vivikta-dṛgbhis tad u hārhaṇaḿ me

My dear sons, you should not envy any living entity — be he moving or nonmoving. Knowing that I am situated in them, you should offer respect to all of them at every moment. In this way, you offer respect to Me.

Than it really doesn't matter if I, he, she, us, them or they do or don't believe in your form of god or not does it.

Vrindavana Das · Post by **Vrindavana Das** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:04 am

littleCJelkton;1391128 wrote: Than it really doesn't matter if I, he, she, us, them or they do or don't believe in your form of god or not does it.

It does not matter from God's position. From among countless universes, if in one mustard-seed-like universe, in one remote galaxy, in one speck of a solar-system, in one insignificant planet, out of countless living beings, if some deny His existence.

Still He takes the trouble to repeatedly tell us about Him through revealed scriptures. Wanting us back with Him. His love for us is unconditional and unmotivated. And for that love, it should matter to US.

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:23 pm

Vrindavana Das;1391131 wrote: It does not matter from God's position. From among countless universes, if in one mustard-seed-like universe, in one remote galaxy, in one speck of a solar-system, in one insignificant planet, out of countless living beings, if some deny His existence.

Still He takes the trouble to repeatedly tell us about Him through revealed scriptures. Wanting us back with Him. His love for us is unconditional and unmotivated. And for that love, it should matter to US.

No it doesnt matter at all, if I don't believe in him, it matters to you if I do, but because GOD can not be disproven or proven then it doesn't matter and it is fuel to force people to seperate hate and even kill each other, because unfortunately those like you take the matter of having others believe in their version of GOD way to seriously and you all ready take it more serious than you need too

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:26 pm

Since GOD can not be proven or dis-proven, then it cannot be proven or dis-proven that believing in GOD or not changes how bad, good, mean, nice, selfless, selfish,...... of a person you are.

Vrindavana Das · Post by **Vrindavana Das** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:57 pm

littleCJelkton;1391221 wrote: No it doesnt matter at all, if I don't believe in him, it matters to you if I do, but because GOD can not be disproven or proven then it doesn't matter and it is fuel to force people to seperate hate and even kill each other, because unfortunately those like you take the matter of having others believe in their version of GOD way to seriously and you all ready take it more serious than you need too

Religion without philosophy is fanaticism.

Philosophy without religion is sentimentalism.

I am no religious fanatic who would kill etc. to make you believe in my version of God.

Nowhere I am not asking you to believe in my version of God. You can believe whatever version you are okay with.

I am just saying that God exists...believe in whatever version you want!

Vrindavana Das · Post by **Vrindavana Das** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:02 pm

littleCJelkton;1391222 wrote: Since GOD can not be proven or dis-proven, then it cannot be proven or dis-proven that believing in GOD or not changes how bad, good, mean, nice, selfless, selfish,...... of a person you are.

“The proof of the pudding is in the eating”

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:08 am

Vrindavana Das;1391224 wrote: “The proof of the pudding is in the eating”

But I hate tapioca another person might love it but hate chocolate or butterscotch or banana, some people don't like pudding at all and eat Jell-O it doesn't mean does that eat pudding treat people better than does who eat jell-O or ice cream or prefer any other kind of dessert over pudding. Though none of it matters as we have already shown GOD to be Spiritual "Niether proven or dis-proven" Pudding is of course material " thus able to be proven" to compare the too does not prove God exist as pudding or anything else, nor does it prove that believing God exist or doesn't exist really matters.

Vrindavana Das · Post by **Vrindavana Das** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:30 am

littleCJelkton;1391294 wrote: But I hate tapioca another person might love it but hate chocolate or butterscotch or banana, some people don't like pudding at all and eat Jell-O it doesn't mean does that eat pudding treat people better than does who eat jell-O or ice cream or prefer any other kind of dessert over pudding. Though none of it matters as we have already shown GOD to be Spiritual "Niether proven or dis-proven" Pudding is of course material " thus able to be proven" to compare the too does not prove God exist as pudding or anything else, nor does it prove that believing God exist or doesn't exist really matters.

Different people have different tastes/preferences - like you mentioned. That is why God has different forms, of which people can learn and worship/serve, to suit their taste. God has given all information about Him to us, but we have to make the effort. Something like you can take a horse to the pond. But you cannot make him drink. The horse has to do that!

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:22 pm

Vrindavana Das;1391297 wrote: Different people have different tastes/preferences - like you mentioned. That is why God has different forms, of which people can learn and worship/serve, to suit their taste. God has given all information about Him to us, but we have to make the effort. Something like you can take a horse to the pond. But you cannot make him drink. The horse has to do that!

So if the horse drinks from the river he is athiest ? I am still not understanding why it matters if there is water and an animal is thirsty it will drink it regardless of the fact it is a lake stream or river, just as a person can be a "good" person without having to believe in God Allah Yaweh or the 9 folds path to enlightenment. So if someone wants to say there is no such thing as god, or if someone wants to say there is a god it makes no difference as long as they treat me with dignity and respect that we all equally deserve.

Townes · Post by **Townes** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:55 am

littleCJelkton;1391384 wrote: So if someone wants to say there is no such thing as god, or if someone wants to say there is a god it makes no difference as long as they treat me with dignity and respect that we all equally deserve.
This person times couple of billion and bigotry would seize to exist.

I wish more people were like you.

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:54 am

Townes;1391394 wrote: This person times couple of billion and bigotry would seize to exist.

I wish more people were like you.

One way to stop bigotry is to get people to stop telling other people you have to believe in the same spiritual unproven rhetoric as they do in order to be as good of a person(s) as they are, because the rhetoric they believe in somehow makes them better.

rajakrsna · Post by **rajakrsna** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:45 pm

littleCJelkton;1391451 wrote: One way to stop bigotry is to get people to stop telling other people you have to believe in the same spiritual unproven rhetoric as they do in order to be as good of a person(s) as they are, because the rhetoric they believe in somehow makes them better.

Bigotry is the state of mind of a "bigot," a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one who exhibits intolerance or animosity toward members of a group. Bigotry may be based on real or perceived characteristics, including sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, race, ethnicity, nationality, region, language, religious or spiritual belief, political alignment, age, economic status or disability. Bigotry is sometimes developed into an ideology or world view.( Wikipedia)

Bigots are those who tell people to not believe in God until it becomes a WORLD VIEW.

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:33 pm

rajakrsna;1392290 wrote: Bigotry is the state of mind of a "bigot," a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one who exhibits intolerance or animosity toward members of a group. Bigotry may be based on real or perceived characteristics, including sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, race, ethnicity, nationality, region, language, religious or spiritual belief, political alignment, age, economic status or disability. Bigotry is sometimes developed into an ideology or world view.( Wikipedia)

Bigots are those who tell people to not believe in God until it becomes a WORLD VIEW.

You say that, and I say a Bigot are those who tell people to believe in something NOT in a world view because they are better than you are because they believe in that thing an you don't. Instead of just getting along with the person that doesn't believe and enjoying life they have in front of them these Bigots are worried about the lives of others for the sake of in someway gaining graces with something they can not show to be real in a world view. If someone wants to believe or not in God Allah Yaweh or the Great Flying Spaghetti monster then they can, but their beliefs should not effect their value as a person nor should it change how others treat them if they treat others with the same dignity and respect they would treat theirselves with.

rajakrsna · Post by **rajakrsna** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:43 am

littleCJelkton;1392349 wrote: You say that, and I say a Bigot are those who tell people to believe in something NOT in a world view because they are better than you are because they believe in that thing an you don't. Instead of just getting along with the person that doesn't believe and enjoying life they have in front of them these Bigots are worried about the lives of others for the sake of in someway gaining graces with something they can not show to be real in a world view. If someone wants to believe or not in God Allah Yaweh or the Great Flying Spaghetti monster then they can, but their beliefs should not effect their value as a person nor should it change how others treat them if they treat others with the same dignity and respect they would treat theirselves with.

The bigot is not a real person. He hides from the cloak of anonymity because he knows from his heart he`s not telling the truth." It`s only in the heart one can see clearly & what is essential is not visible to the eye, " says St Antoine Exupery & he who does not believe in it speaks from his mind-full of dirt & wasteful thinking. He speculates & speculates in the origin of his existence saying not this & not that not believing in the Holy Scriptures he gives up & releases malodorous farts that`s bad for his heart.

rajakrsna · Post by **rajakrsna** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:09 am

Vrindavana Das;1391224 wrote: “The proof of the pudding is in the eating”

Krishna can eat with his eyes & can see with his hands. It should have been " the proof of the pudding is in the seeing ( smiling )". Which means the proof of the pudding is in the handling, so to speak.

littleCJelkton · Post by **littleCJelkton** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:50 pm

rajakrsna;1392352 wrote: The bigot is not a real person. He hides from the cloak of anonymity because he knows from his heart he`s not telling the truth." It`s only in the heart one can see clearly & what is essential is not visible to the eye, " says St Antoine Exupery & he who does not believe in it speaks from his mind-full of dirt & wasteful thinking. He speculates & speculates in the origin of his existence saying not this & not that not believing in the Holy Scriptures he gives up & releases malodorous farts that`s bad for his heart.

You say bigotry is not believing and I say it is you have started the same argument in a different light, I don't believe in the scriptures so to use them as proof just proves to me your statements is all smoke an mirrors

Vrindavana Das · Post by **Vrindavana Das** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:27 pm

rajakrsna;1392353 wrote: Krishna can eat with his eyes & can see with his hands. It should have been " the proof of the pudding is in the seeing ( smiling )". Which means the proof of the pudding is in the handling, so to speak.

hehehe...yes!

...

maybe, instead of "seeing is believing"; we can say "handling is believing"