Pronunciation what is happening ?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon May 14, 2012 4:08 am

It first came to my attention with Colin Powell, must be said Cole-eene Powell.

Now we have Nicolas Sarkozy, must be said Sarko-seee.

Even place names are infected, it used to be Newcastle, now it's Newcassel

And there are more that I shall add as I remember them......but why do we alter our pronunciation to suit the latest linguistic affectation ?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon May 14, 2012 4:19 am

I know what you mean. Qatar used to be QaTAR, then Guitar, and now it's Cutter.

Mumbai, India used to be Bombay.

theia · Post by **theia** » Mon May 14, 2012 5:03 am

"conshumer" gets on my nerves, as does "Budapeched"

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon May 14, 2012 5:33 am

Accountable;1393542 wrote:

Mumbai, India used to be Bombay.
Isn't that like..........Constantinople now Istanbul ?

Didn't they just change the name ?

Like Salisbury now Harare ?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon May 14, 2012 5:36 am

Talking of Nicolas Sarkozy, that reminds me...........

An English TV reporter was In France for some summit.... The BBC showed a clip of Sarkozy making a speech, then the reporter turned to the camera and said...

" Nicolas Sarkozy there speaking In French"............. errr well yes, I suppose he would be what with him being French speaking at a French summit.... derrrrrrrr

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon May 14, 2012 6:46 am

Well you guys pronounce "War-ches-ter" "wooster"

What's up with THAT?

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon May 14, 2012 7:09 am

it took me a while to get the Aussie pronunciation of MELBOURNE as MELBIN instead of the American MEL-BORN.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon May 14, 2012 7:41 am

LarsMac;1393550 wrote: Well you guys pronounce "War-ches-ter" "wooster"

What's up with THAT?
Or Leicester which is Lestor

Or Woolwich which is Woolich, or Greenwhich which is Grenitch.

Now I shall shall set one for you to guess as to the local pronunciation, but gmc is barred.

How would you say Grand Tully ?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon May 14, 2012 7:43 am

LarsMac;1393550 wrote: Well you guys pronounce "War-ches-ter" "wooster"

What's up with THAT?
And it's Worcester no CH or A involved at all

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Mon May 14, 2012 8:07 am

Lon;1393552 wrote: it took me a while to get the Aussie pronunciation of MELBOURNE as MELBIN instead of the American MEL-BORN.

depending on which side of the city you were raised it fluctuates between Melbin and Melbern. I taught wendy how to say it properly.

but then again I don't use the same speech or pronounciation as my grandmother who grew up in a time when all aussies were taught to speak english with the Queens accent. It wasn't "off" to my granny ...it was AWFF or ORFF and people weren't "poor" they were "pew-or".

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue May 15, 2012 3:22 am

If communications are poor, then languages develop accents; accents become dialects; and dialects become other languages. If communications are good, the process slows down or even reverses. That's the simple basic process - it is complicated by interaction with other languages and dialects.

We are living in the middle of the process in our island and in the wider areas that used to be part of the Empire: consider the difference between English as spoken by Northern and Southern English, West Coast Scottish, Devonian, Australian/ Kiwi/ Canadian/SA English (noting eg Fuzzy's different Melbourne accents) and US English - where the spelling has started to be different and there is huge variety of accent and dialect. And that's not even considering India, where English is still (afaik) the official language spoken in government - because the many non Hindu speakers don't want Hindi as their official language. (If there is an Indian out there who knows better, please correct me!)

Perhaps the process is starting to reverse with the incredible ease of worldwide communication these days. My impression - perhaps wrongly - is that accents and dialects were at their thickest and richest (like a good yoghurt :wah:) in the 1940s and '50s and have been fading ever since.

edit: place names are slightly different: Eoforwic (Anglo Saxon) became Jorvik, (Scandinavian) became York (English). The town I spent much of my childhood in was originally "the home of the extended family and dependents of Upp", or Uppingham.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Tue May 15, 2012 3:58 am

Bruv;1393541 wrote: It first came to my attention with Colin Powell, must be said Cole-eene Powell.

Now we have Nicolas Sarkozy, must be said Sarko-seee.

Even place names are infected, it used to be Newcastle, now it's Newcassel

And there are more that I shall add as I remember them......but why do we alter our pronunciation to suit the latest linguistic affectation ?

I've never heard it with a long E in the second syllable. I do get confused when Colin is pronounces with a long O. Isn't that part of the digestive tract?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue May 15, 2012 4:18 am

Colin has always been pronounced Coll-in until Mr Powell came along.

Maybe my Cole-eene over emphasises but there is definitely a change toward Cole-ene ........listen here

Post by **LarsMac** » Tue May 15, 2012 6:21 am

Bruv;1393633 wrote: Colin has always been pronounced Coll-in until Mr Powell came along.

Maybe my Cole-eene over emphasises but there is definitely a change toward Cole-ene ........listen here

it sounded more like, "Co-lin", long 'o', short 'i' to me.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue May 15, 2012 6:32 am

Kiwi's seem to have difficulty pronouncing my name (LON). They will say "LAWN" instead of "LAHN"

I learned to spell and pronounce words phonetically. How about other FG folks?

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue May 15, 2012 6:49 am

To me, Lon looks as though it should be pronounced "Lohn" rather than "Lahn".

Do Aussies call you "Larn" ???

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue May 15, 2012 6:53 am

Clodhopper;1393645 wrote: To me, Lon looks as though it should be pronounced "Lohn" rather than "Lahn".

Do Aussies call you "Larn" ???

Interesting----to me----LOHN would be pronounced LONE

Aussies call me the same as the Kiwi's

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue May 15, 2012 8:23 am

We have a large farm store here spelled "ROOTS" which is pronounced "RUTZ".

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue May 15, 2012 9:18 am

Bruv;1393553 wrote: Or Leicester which is Lestor

Or Woolwich which is Woolich, or Greenwhich which is Grenitch.

Now I shall shall set one for you to guess as to the local pronunciation, but gmc is barred.

How would you say Grand Tully ?

Would that be because I can pronounce the letter r and have a glottal stop?

You may not be aware of this but people in the south east of England talk funny. You are in no position to comments on anybody's pronunciation. Speaking of Australians why do they always sound as if each sentence is a question?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue May 15, 2012 9:47 am

gmc;1393659 wrote: Would that be because I can pronounce the letter r and have a glottal stop?

You may not be aware of this but people in the south east of England talk funny. You are in no position to comments on anybody's pronunciation. Speaking of Australians why do they always sound as if each sentence is a question?

Many Scots speak better English than the English glottal stop or not, and then some of them are virtually undecipherable. I knew a Glaswegian who lapsed into another language when he met another Glaswegian in a pub.

I barred you from pronouncing Grand Tully, because I though you might have an advantage.Now you have reminded me about Menzies Campbell, how do they get that pronunciation ?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue May 15, 2012 10:35 am

Clodhopper;1393627 wrote: If communications are poor, then languages develop accents; accents become dialects; and dialects become other languages. If communications are good, the process slows down or even reverses. That's the simple basic process - it is complicated by interaction with other languages and dialects.

We are living in the middle of the process in our island and in the wider areas that used to be part of the Empire: consider the difference between English as spoken by Northern and Southern English, West Coast Scottish, Devonian, Australian/ Kiwi/ Canadian/SA English (noting eg Fuzzy's different Melbourne accents) and US English - where the spelling has started to be different and there is huge variety of accent and dialogue. And that's not even considering India, where English is still (afaik) the official language spoken in government - because the many non Hindu speakers don't want Hindi as their official language. (If there is an Indian out there who knows better, please correct me!)

Perhaps the process is starting to reverse with the incredible ease of worldwide communication these days. My impression - perhaps wrongly - is that accents and dialects were at their thickest and richest (like a good yoghurt :wah:) in the 1940s and '50s and have been fading ever since.

edit: place names are slightly different: Eoforwic (Anglo Saxon) became Jorvik, (Scandinavian) became York (English). The town I spent much of my childhood in was originally "the home of the extended family and dependents of Upp", or Uppingham.

Then you must know how to pronounce Belvoir :wah:

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue May 15, 2012 10:49 am

gmc;1393659 wrote: Would that be because I can pronounce the letter r and have a glottal stop?
I believe a CPAP machine can help you with that.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:02 pm

Does a glottal stop having anything to do with your uvula?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:20 pm

Given the thread title maybe it should be :-

Punctuation, what is happening?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:23 pm

Bryn Mawr;1393715 wrote: Given the thread title maybe it should be :-

Punctuation, what is happening?

You......have lost me !!!

What's punctuation got to do with it ?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:26 pm

Bruv;1393717 wrote: You......have lost me !!!

What's punctuation got to do with it ?Speaking of which, why is it you space before you punctuate the end of a sentence? Is it a habitual slip or were you taught it?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:30 pm

SnoozeAgain;1393696 wrote: Does a glottal stop having anything to do with your uvula?

No, a glottal stop Is that Inch between the scrotum and the anus on a Scotsman

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:32 pm

Bruv;1393717 wrote: You......have lost me !!!

What's punctuation got to do with it ?

Not a lot, just being silly as usual

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:32 pm

Ahso!;1393718 wrote: Speaking of which, why is it you space before you punctuate the end of a sentence? Is it a habitual slip or were you taught it?

I am a freestyler, I think it looks more dramatic..............to be honest I don't know. There is that better?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:32 pm

oscar;1393722 wrote: No, a glottal stop Is that Inch between the scrotum and the anus on a Scotsman

That's one hell of a way to score

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:33 pm

Bruv;1393717 wrote: You......have lost me !!!

What's punctuation got to do with it ?

I think his Brynness was referring to the obvious absence of a semi colon after the word, Pronunciation In your title.

So nerrrr

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue May 15, 2012 2:36 pm

oscar;1393726 wrote: I think his Brynness was referring to the obvious absence of a semi colon after the word, Pronunciation In your title.

So nerrrr
My punctuation is all over the place....................Good job I never dove in with comments concerning what I mistakenly thought the uvula was !!!!

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue May 15, 2012 3:09 pm

Bruv;1393728 wrote: My punctuation is all over the place....................Good job I never dove in with comments concerning what I mistakenly thought the uvula was !!!!

I was not thinking of the woo woo area.... I know what a Uvulva Is......... My Father had a 1978 diesel convertable Uvulva.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue May 15, 2012 3:11 pm

Bruv;1393728 wrote: My punctuation is all over the place....................Good job I never dove in with comments concerning what I mistakenly thought the uvula was !!!!

Oops, that's two mistakes in one. Not only did I make the same dyslexic mistake you did but I'd always thought that was your tonsils!

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue May 15, 2012 4:09 pm

Bryn: chuckle. I knew the pronunciation before the spelling. As a child pictured it as the residence of small furry mammals with buck teeth and flat tails.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Tue May 15, 2012 5:42 pm

oscar;1393722 wrote: No, a glottal stop Is that Inch between the scrotum and the anus on a Scotsman

I really mangled my sentence, I'm glad you could make sense of it and teach me that a glottal stop is the same thing as taint.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Tue May 15, 2012 5:45 pm

Bryn Mawr;1393733 wrote: Oops, that's two mistakes in one. Not only did I make the same dyslexic mistake you did but I'd always thought that was your tonsils!

I used to just call it 'the little punching bag in the back of your mouth' until I found out the real name for it which is even better. I'd love to love your uvula.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue May 15, 2012 6:35 pm

SnoozeAgain;1393696 wrote: Does a glottal stop having anything to do with your uvula?

Uvulva. It's boxy, but good.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed May 16, 2012 6:36 am

Accountable;1393756 wrote: Uvulva. It's boxy, but good.

I once dated a girl with a boxy Volvo.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed May 16, 2012 11:48 am

YZGI;1393768 wrote: I once dated a girl with a boxy Volvo.

My brother once dated a girl with a poxy vulva

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed May 16, 2012 11:49 am

Clodhopper;1393749 wrote: Bryn: chuckle. I knew the pronunciation before the spelling. As a child pictured it as the residence of small furry mammals with buck teeth and flat tails.

A beautiful area.

I'm still amused when asked for directions by "foreigners" in the city centre - " 'Arc at 'er tryin' to sound all posh like" :wah:

theia · Post by **theia** » Wed May 16, 2012 12:20 pm

Bryn Mawr;1393775 wrote: A beautiful area.

I'm still amused when asked for directions by "foreigners" in the city centre - " 'Arc at 'er tryin' to sound all posh like" :wah:

I hate to admit this but when I moved up to Leicester in the 80s, I too asked directions to Belle Voir Street. I was one of those foreigners

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed May 16, 2012 12:28 pm

Lincolns Inn Fields, London........

Try asking directions for that.....

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu May 24, 2012 4:17 am

The other one I forgot to mention was Angela Merkel.

Have always pronounced that anjella, these days it is angle-a............why?

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Thu May 24, 2012 7:00 am

Bruv;1394240 wrote: The other one I forgot to mention was Angela Merkel.

Have always pronounced that anjella, these days it is angle-a............why?

Only the Merkels pronounce it that way.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu May 24, 2012 8:24 am

YZGI;1394246 wrote: Only the Merkels pronounce it that way.

I have never heard the Merkels speak it, I have heard all the various news readers though.

To be fair I can just understand the deference to a foreign pronunciation, like Dav.id jeanola as opposed to dayvid Jin-ola

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu May 24, 2012 8:56 am

Bruv;1394240 wrote: The other one I forgot to mention was Angela Merkel.

Have always pronounced that anjella, these days it is angle-a............why?

Presumably that's the way it's pronounced in german and is what she calls herself. It's the height of bad manners to mispronounce someone's name deliberately. Having a scottish surname it annoys me intensely when after pronouncing it and spelling it for someone (usually in a call centre) they then proceed to pronounce it as they think it should be - OK I make allowances for the many people have a speech defect and cannot pronounce the letter r properly. How about indian, pakistani eastern names for, how hard is it to take the time to pronounce them properly? It's offensive and dismissive of the person not to treat them with respect, deliberately mispronouncing somebody's name is offensive.

So if german lady tells you her name is angle-a don't be rude and tell her she doesn't speak properly.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Thu May 24, 2012 9:13 am

gmc;1394252 wrote: Presumably that's the way it's pronounced in german and is what she calls herself. It's the height of bad manners to mispronounce someone's name deliberately. Having a scottish surname it annoys me intensely when after pronouncing it and spelling it for someone (usually in a call centre) they then proceed to pronounce it as they think it should be - OK I make allowances for the many people have a speech defect and cannot pronounce the letter r properly. How about indian, pakistani eastern names for, how hard is it to take the time to pronounce them properly? It's offensive and dismissive of the person not to treat them with respect, deliberately mispronouncing somebody's name is offensive.

So if german lady tells you her name is angle-a don't be rude and tell her she doesn't speak properly.

YEAH!! What he^^^^said Broovie.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Thu May 24, 2012 9:44 am

My middle name is Celia and I can't tell you how many people will say "Cecelia?" Yes, that's it... I've been saying it wrong all these years.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Thu May 24, 2012 10:06 am

SnoozeAgain;1394255 wrote: My middle name is Celia and I can't tell you how many people will say "Cecelia?" Yes, that's it... I've been saying it wrong all these years.

I blame S&G