Birth Certificate replacement

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:11 pm

I was amazed how easy it is to get a replacement Birth Certificate.

My wife enquired at our local Registry Office yesterday, they gave her a telephone number, which I phoned and was told to phone the number for the area I was born.

Anyway.........I told the girl my date of birth, confirmed my present address, paid £12 to be told it will be in the post and be with me in about 5 days.

I asked "Don't you want to know my parent's names ?"

"No, it's all on our systems" she said matter of fact.

What if I was in need of a fake certificate for some illegal reason ?

Post by **spot** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:18 pm

A birth certificate isn't an identity document, it's a proof that a child's birth was registered. I'm reasonably sure anyone can apply for a copy of any birth certificate. I can certainly send off for your granny's, I'm reasonably sure I can ask for a copy of yours too.

They won't provide fake certificates. All birth certificates issued by Registry Offices since 1837 are proof of a registration. I'm not sure why anybody would ever fake one.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:21 pm

spot;1394828 wrote: A birth certificate isn't an identity document, it's a proof that a child's birth was registered. I'm reasonably sure anyone can apply for a copy of any birth certificate. I can certainly send off for your granny's, I'm reasonably sure I can ask for a copy of yours too.

They won't provide fake certificates. All birth certificates issued by Registry Offices since 1837 are proof of a registration. I'm not sure why anybody would ever fake one.

Yet It Is accepted as Identity when opening a bank account and to register with a GP.

http://old.wakefield.anglican.org/suppo ... checks.pdf

Post by **spot** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:22 pm

oscar;1394830 wrote: Yet It Is accepted as Identity when opening a bank account and to register with a GP.

It is?? I think perhaps you're talking through your arse again.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:23 pm

spot;1394831 wrote: It is?? I think perhaps you're talking through your arse again.

http://old.wakefield.anglican.org/suppo ... checks.pdf

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:27 pm

Aged 11 to 15

Proof of Identity (e.g. Original Valid Passport or Birth Certificate) plus Consent of Parent or Legal Guardian

https://www.metrobankonline.co.uk/Perso ... -Account1/

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:27 pm

It was a hell of a lot easier than opening a Bank account.......that incidentally you need several forms of ID which could include a Birth Certificate I believe.

Required also for Passport ID, Passport and birth certificate are gateway documents to any and everything else.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:27 pm

I'm pretty sure they've made this harder to do, but that used to be a common method of changing your identity. Find a baby that was born approximately the same year you were that died young, ask for their birth certificate, use the birth certificate to get a driver's license, use the driver's license to apply for credit cards...

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:30 pm

Are you two going to engage in your battles in this thread too ?

Post by **spot** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:32 pm

Here it is - Births and Deaths Registration Act 1953

(1)Any person shall, on payment of a fee of ninepence and on furnishing the prescribed particulars, be entitled to obtain from the Registrar General, a superintendent registrar or a registrar a short certificate of the birth of any person.

... with several amendments upgrading the ninepence, obviously.

What you're doing, for a bank or GP, is swearing that the person named on the birth certificate is you. It allows the bank or GP to link you to national identity databases. The "this is me" aspect is you swearing, not possession of the paper.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:33 pm

Bruv;1394836 wrote: It was a hell of a lot easier than opening a Bank account.......that incidentally you need several forms of ID which could include a Birth Certificate I believe.

Required also for Passport ID, Passport and birth certificate are gateway documents to any and everything else.

You're right... Spot tends to accuse others of talking out of their arsse when he hasn't a clue what he's talking about.... as usual. Just likes to think he does. It gives him some sort of boost to the self Imposed Importance.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:34 pm

Bruv;1394839 wrote: Are you two going to engage in your battles in this thread too ? No need...... you're right on this one.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:37 pm

spot;1394841 wrote:

What you're doing, for a bank or GP, is swearing that the person named on the birth certificate is you. It allows the bank or GP to link you to national identity databases. The "this is me" aspect is you swearing, not possession of the paper.

Well that's alright then.

The British are far far too trusting.

Post by **spot** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:41 pm

Bruv;1394844 wrote: Well that's alright then.

The British are far far too trusting.

Perhaps the British are just uninformed as to what possession of a birth certificate implies or what you can do with it at a bank or surgery. Certainly oscar is.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:51 pm

spot;1394847 wrote: Perhaps the British are just uninformed as to what possession of a birth certificate implies or what you can do with it at a bank or surgery. Certainly oscar is.

Count me in too.

Producing a birth certificate and a few collaborating documents, obtainable with said birth certificate , and for all intents and purposes you are set up for a new life.

Remember Spot not all people are as honest as you and I.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:54 pm

Bruv;1394844 wrote: Well that's alright then.

The British are far far too trusting.

I took a young Lithuanian to my bank to open an account very recently when he arrived to start work In my Turkish friends outfit so his wages could be paid straight In and he could transfer the bulk of It back to Lithuania. Yes, It's true that they wanted other forms of ID such as proof of residence but they did accept his birth certificate as one form of ID because he did not have a driving licence.

A week later, I registered him with my GP where his birth certificate was also accepted as proof of Identity along with proof of residence In this country.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:57 pm

oscar;1394853 wrote: I took a young Lithuanian to my bank to open an account very recently when he arrived to start work In my Turkish friends outfit so his wages could be paid straight In and he could transfer the bulk of It back to Lithuania. Yes, It's true that they wanted other forms of ID such as proof of residence but they did accept his birth certificate as one form of ID because he did not have a driving licence.

A week later, I registered him with my GP where his birth certificate was also accepted as proof of Identity along with proof of residence In this country.

That means nothing, Oscar. How dare you argue with spot.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed May 30, 2012 4:02 pm

SnoozeAgain;1394855 wrote: That means nothing, Oscar. How dare you argue with spot.
It's dementia apparently.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Wed May 30, 2012 4:04 pm

oscar;1394859 wrote: It's dementia apparently.

Well, he'd know, wouldn't he.

Post by **spot** » Wed May 30, 2012 4:04 pm

Shall we step through this?

I can, everyone agrees, apply to the registrar for a copy of oscar's birth certificate. I won't, let's just consider where it leads.

Is anyone here saying it's a faked certificate, when it arrives? No, it's a valid birth certificate.

Does my possession of it prove I'm oscar. Evidently not.

Were I to go into a GP's surgery and register myself with it, the fraud would be in my implying or stating that it certifies the registration of my birth as opposed to someone else's.

Is it, then, a proof of identity? No, it is not a proof of identity. It is a birth certificate.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed May 30, 2012 4:12 pm

SnoozeAgain;1394862 wrote: Well, he'd know, wouldn't he. He'd know but would he be able to remember knowing?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed May 30, 2012 4:18 pm

spot;1394863 wrote: Shall we step through this?

I can, everyone agrees, apply to the registrar for a copy of oscar's birth certificate. I won't, let's just consider where it leads.

Is anyone here saying it's a faked certificate, when it arrives? No, it's a valid birth certificate.

Does my possession of it prove I'm oscar. Evidently not.

Were I to go into a GP's surgery and register myself with it, the fraud would be in my implying or stating that it certifies the registration of my birth as opposed to someone else's.

Is it, then, a proof of identity? No, it is not a proof of identity. It is a birth certificate.

Going into Spot mode....

That post could only have been written by a trusting Brit one with stiff upper lip and stoic belief in the basic honesty of humankind.

Post by **spot** » Wed May 30, 2012 4:24 pm

Bruv;1394880 wrote: Going into Spot mode....

That post could only have been written by a trusting Brit one with stiff upper lip and stoic belief in the basic honesty of humankind.

The clue is in the name, strangely enough. It certifies the registration of a birth. Were it what oscar suggests, it would be labelled "Proof Of Identity" and quite likely tattooed on everyone's forehead by an over-bureaucratic government with privacy issues.

Has anyone wondered why birth certificates don't have photos?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed May 30, 2012 4:32 pm

spot;1394882 wrote: The clue is in the name, strangely enough. It certifies the registration of a birth. Were it what oscar suggests, it would be labelled "Proof Of Identity" and quite likely tattooed on everyone's forehead by an over-bureaucratic government with privacy issues.

Has anyone wondered why birth certificates don't have photos?

Cause it is issued at birth......and babies grow ?

Unlike Passports for kids that need to be changed as they grow do you mean ?

Excuse me Spot, do you genuinely believe that a birth certificate in the wrong hands might be used for illegal activies ?

If the answer is YES..................walk away from this thread.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu May 31, 2012 7:28 am

It's only one of a number of documents that can be used to prove identity in isolation it isn't enough. Also the purpose of registering births and deaths is to keep track of the population and is useful in tracing family lineage. Prior the act local parishes kept registers that served instead.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu May 31, 2012 7:55 am

gmc;1394949 wrote: It's only one of a number of documents that can be used to prove identity in isolation it isn't enough. Also the purpose of registering births and deaths is to keep track of the population and is useful in tracing family lineage. Prior the act local parishes kept registers that served instead.

But It can be used along with other forms such as proof of residency as a means of ID when the person has no driving licence.

Ironically, A birth certificate can be used as ID In order to obtain the driving licence.....

How to Apply for a Provisional Drivers Licence

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu May 31, 2012 8:23 am

Interesting.... I just found this:

Legal Forms of Identification | eHow.com

Appears you were correct Bruv

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu May 31, 2012 8:28 am

Oh the Irony !!!!

I have just phoned one of my local police officers... a real one that Is.

Hi has told me that the birth certificate Is the Ultimate proof of ID because It Is the one document that all other forms of ID are based on. You produce your BC In order to get a passport, driving licence etc....

Apparently, he thinks Spot Is a clown....

Post by **spot** » Thu May 31, 2012 9:45 am

Hands up for two bonus points - does anyone remember why pubs and clubs won't accept a Birth Certificate as proof of age on a Friday night?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu May 31, 2012 9:51 am

spot;1394964 wrote: Hands up for two bonus points - does anyone remember why pubs and clubs won't accept a Birth Certificate as proof of age on a Friday night?

I used to rent mine out at weekends.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Thu May 31, 2012 10:34 am

spot;1394964 wrote: Hands up for two bonus points - does anyone remember why pubs and clubs won't accept a Birth Certificate as proof of age on a Friday night?

Because there is no picture to match the cerificate in any way to the holder of the BC.

Post by **spot** » Thu May 31, 2012 10:39 am

YZGI;1394971 wrote: Because there is no picture to match the cerificate in any way to the holder of the BC.

And consequently... it's like Monty Python and the Holy Grail, this... as a Proof of Identity, the Birth Certificate is...

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu May 31, 2012 10:49 am

It's a primary proof of identity but in isolation it is not enough.

Identity documents and photograph criteria : Directgov - Motoring

UK birth and adoption certificates can also be used, however, as they are not absolute proof of identity, they must be accompanied by one of the following:

National Insurance card or a letter from the Department for Work and Pensions containing your National Insurance number

photocopy of the front page of a benefits book or an original benefits claim letter

P45, P60 or pay slip

marriage certificate or divorce papers (decree nisi or absolute)

college or university union card or school record

According to one authority (donald trump) there is a non - american currently president of the united states. It would appear even a birth certificate is not enough to prove who you are in the states.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu May 31, 2012 11:17 am

oscar;1394960 wrote: Interesting.... I just found this:

Legal Forms of Identification | eHow.com

Appears you were correct Bruv

Careful now......that is a US site

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu May 31, 2012 11:18 am

If I'm not mistaken one has to show two forms of acceptable identification in order to receive one's stamped birth certificate which differs from copies that are considered public record. The copies, I believe, are also not accepted as legal documentation when applying for a passport.

Perhaps I'm wrong

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu May 31, 2012 11:24 am

I shall start this topic again...........sigh !!!

I found it far too easy to obtain a major personal document that is a gateway document for anybody with illegal intentions to gain other documents of a far greater value.

I concede it is not a stand alone document, but there could be many situations where marrying a stolen utility bill or other document with a birth certificate could be of great value with evil intent.

Is any of that untrue ?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu May 31, 2012 11:30 am

Bruv;1394982 wrote: I shall start this topic again...........sigh !!!

I found it far too easy to obtain a major personal document that is a gateway document for anybody with illegal intentions to gain other documents of a far greater value.

I concede it is not a stand alone document, but there could be many situations where marrying a stolen utility bill or other document with a birth certificate could be of great value with evil intent.

Is any of that untrue ?

Dear Bruv

Think about why sales of paper shredders have rocketed. Think about why police advise us to shred or never put utility bills, bank statements etc In our bins.

Yes, you right,

Lots of Luv

Oscar xxx

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu May 31, 2012 11:37 am

Yes. but you only saying that cos Spot says the opposite......or is it he is saying the opposite because.......oh never mind

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu May 31, 2012 11:40 am

Bruv;1394984 wrote: Yes. but you only saying that cos Spot says the opposite......or is it he is saying the opposite because.......oh never mind

What's the opposite of bollocks ?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu May 31, 2012 11:44 am

oscar;1394985 wrote: What's the opposite of bollocks ?

Link 1

Link 2

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Thu May 31, 2012 12:13 pm

Bruv;1394982 wrote: I shall start this topic again...........sigh !!!

I found it far too easy to obtain a major personal document that is a gateway document for anybody with illegal intentions to gain other documents of a far greater value.

I concede it is not a stand alone document, but there could be many situations where marrying a stolen utility bill or other document with a birth certificate could be of great value with evil intent.

Is any of that untrue ?

I'm sorry. What was the question?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu May 31, 2012 12:26 pm

YZGI;1394987 wrote: I'm sorry. What was the question? It was who was the victim. How many naked men there were and did the cops have to shoot him.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Thu May 31, 2012 12:32 pm

oscar;1394988 wrote: It was who was the victim. How many naked men there were and did the cops have to shoot him.

OK. My answer is: The pornographic movie.. "Debbie does the Dallas Cowboys."

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu May 31, 2012 12:47 pm

Bruv;1394982 wrote: I shall start this topic again...........sigh !!!

I found it far too easy to obtain a major personal document that is a gateway document for anybody with illegal intentions to gain other documents of a far greater value.

I concede it is not a stand alone document, but there could be many situations where marrying a stolen utility bill or other document with a birth certificate could be of great value with evil intent.

Is any of that untrue ?Maybe one of us can take the lessons learned in this thread and attempt to obtain a copy of one's birth certificate to find out how easy it is to break the law and commit fraud, which is a felony punishable by years of imprisonment.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu May 31, 2012 1:33 pm

K.Snyder;1394990 wrote: Maybe one of us can take the lessons learned in this thread and attempt to obtain a copy of one's birth certificate to find out how easy it is to break the law and commit fraud, which is a felony punishable by years of imprisonment.
Have you been taking lessons from the Spotmiester ?

My point was, when I started this thread, that it is easy to obtain, what I think is a personal document.

I am basically honest so have no intention of obtaining anybody else's birth certificate and use it fraudulently.

I am sure that there are many people in this world would take advantage of the system as it is, and I find that worrying.

theia · Post by **theia** » Thu May 31, 2012 1:46 pm

Bruv;1394982 wrote: I shall start this topic again...........sigh !!!

I found it far too easy to obtain a major personal document that is a gateway document for anybody with illegal intentions to gain other documents of a far greater value.

I concede it is not a stand alone document, but there could be many situations where marrying a stolen utility bill or other document with a birth certificate could be of great value with evil intent.

Is any of that untrue ?

Full marks for effort, Bruv

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Thu May 31, 2012 2:57 pm

Why don't birth certificates have photos? I don't understand. Does it have anything to do with the barbarians in the US? Because all roads seem to lead there.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu May 31, 2012 3:14 pm

SnoozeAgain;1394998 wrote: Why don't birth certificates have photos?

Think about it..........................

When would you get the photographer in ?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu May 31, 2012 3:17 pm

Bruv;1395003 wrote: Think about it..........................

When would you get the photographer in ?

I'd have a picture of Jean Jacques Burnel on mine.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Thu May 31, 2012 3:31 pm

Bruv;1395003 wrote: Think about it..........................

When would you get the photographer in ?

In where?