A lapse of common sense: the creative writing exercise

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:58 am

What on earth goes through these teachers' heads? This is a spectacular own goal...A Staffordshire school has apologised after a 14-year-old boy was asked to write a letter that his mother thought was a suicide note. Wesley Walker, 14, of Longton, Stoke-on-Trent, wrote the letter, which makes reference to his funeral, as part of a creative writing exercise [...] Wesley said pupils were told to write a letter as if they had a terminal illness and only had a few hours to live.

BBC News - Stoke Discovery Academy school sorry for 'suicide note'

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:02 am

Why is the problem with the Teacher ?

I see it as a parent/teenager communication problem.

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:06 am

I find the very notion of getting schoolchildren, of all people, to write such a letter, outrageously intrusive. Do you seriously think most children at 14 are capable of fictionalizing it? I don't.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:15 am

Bruv;1397233 wrote: Why is the problem with the Teacher ?

I see it as a parent/teenager communication problem.

I'm with Bruv, but also think the school could warn parents via letter/newsletter/text/email that a creative writing exercise will take place during term time that the pupils are encouraged to discuss with their parents. I wouldn't leave it to just to the student to get this point over clearly.

My son did something a bit similar recently but he was playing the part of someone who didn't survive the sinking of the titanic. He would have found the above exercise more helpful seeing as he finds it nigh on impossible to imagine himself in others shoes.

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:18 am

Where we differ is perhaps that the school setting instructs the child, in this exercise, to reveal sentiments which are by their nature private and have nothing to do with language skills. It's not an opt-in lesson. Standing up and refusing to participate is beyond most children's capacity.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:21 am

The Mother.....Mrs Walker said: "He handed it to me one evening and then just went upstairs to bed."

The Teacher.....Mr Ridout said the exercise was part of an "expressive art" lesson.

"The exercise was to enable young people to express emotions and share things with loved ones that they never normally say......

They were asked to imagine what they would say if they had a short time left and many pupils and their families found it an encouraging and positive experience."

I would suggest the problem is mainly between the boy and his mother and their lack of communication, kind of proves the whole point of the lesson.

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:24 am

What business is it of a school to enable young people to express emotions and share things with loved ones that they never normally say? I find it disgusting. It's not what schools are for, and I repeat it's not an opt-in voluntary activity.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:24 am

spot;1397239 wrote: Where we differ is perhaps that the school setting instructs the child, in this exercise, to reveal sentiments which are by their nature private and have nothing to do with language skills. It's not an opt-in lesson. Standing up and refusing to participate is beyond most children's capacity.

Maybe it's about teaching the children that it's ok to have fears and sentiments and it's also ok to actually put them in words or to voice them. I'd far rather have a teenager happy to share feelings with me than a repressed one. It's very much to do with language skills, if you were to throw all your feelings down on paper it would be a mess, the skill is to rebuild it again and again to make it coherent and clear.

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:26 am

That may be a suitable activity in a Church Youth Group, it has no place in school. The class I was in at 14 would have laughed any teacher out of the room if such an exercise had been proposed to us.

The reason it's not suitable is that it can't be fictionalized by the average 14 year old.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:31 am

spot;1397243 wrote: That may be a suitable activity in a Church Youth Group, it has no place in school. The class I was in at 14 would have laughed any teacher out of the room if such an exercise had been proposed to us.

The reason it's not suitable is that it can't be fictionalized by the average 14 year old.

Make your bloody mind up.

You and your pals would have laughed a Teacher out of the room, but today's 14 year olds are not capable of opting out.

Were your standards so much higher then, or are kids these days all muppets?

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:43 am

I'll be back... thank christ schools are a different place now to when you were at one. Off to pick the daughter up from a school visit to the Minack theatre.

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:45 am

Bruv;1397244 wrote: Were your standards so much higher then, or are kids these days all muppets?Both, I imagine. Schools had not then trespassed into the private lives of the pupils. Children today appear conditioned into passively accepting instruction. When I was at school, secondary education only happened by voluntary consent and quite often didn't.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:47 am

The thing I despair at Is the Increasing technology In mobile phones and the like that have reduced teenagers dialect to a few monosyllabic grunts. Smart phones are killing the art of letter writing and conversation. It begs the question, If the art of letter writing and the art of conversation Is being lost, then are emotions being lost with them?

I see nothing wrong with the exercise the teacher set. It's a good way of getting children to understand their emotions and feelings...

The problem here Is that maybe 20 years ago, the child would have come home from school, sat down to eat with his parents who would ask ' What did you do at school today son'? And an explanation for the exercise would have been given.

The only problem here Is the systematic destruction of family life due to parents holding down three jobs In a greedy, materialistic world.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:49 am

Why is spot so judgmental? Every thread he starts is basically a condemnation of something/someone.

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:55 am

So many things to criticize, so little time to do it in. I do what I can.

The Clive James thread is laudatory.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:44 am

spot;1397243 wrote: That may be a suitable activity in a Church Youth Group, it has no place in school. The class I was in at 14 would have laughed any teacher out of the room if such an exercise had been proposed to us.

The reason it's not suitable is that it can't be fictionalized by the average 14 year old.

I totally disagree, why can't a 14 year old fictionalise ? I could at that age, I was writing my best and only attempts at fiction at that age. Given that the best fiction is written when based on real life teenagers are capable of it.

I can't see a Church Youth Group setting such an exercise :wah:

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:48 am

I doubt one in ten of the children writing their goodbye letters fictionalized at all - the one focused on which distressed his mother certainly didn't.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:56 am

The thing that should stand out here Is :

Mrs Walker said: "He handed it to me one evening and then just went upstairs to bed.

Where Is the social Interaction between Mother and Son In between him coming home from school and going to bed? Or does this lad go to bed at 4 pm In the afternoon as soon as he's home from school?

" One Evening " ??? What evening ? That evening or thre or four evenings later?

The only disgrace here Is what appears to be lack of communication towards the child from the Mother.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:07 pm

oscar;1397272 wrote: The thing that should stand out here Is :

Mrs Walker said: "He handed it to me one evening and then just went upstairs to bed.

Where Is the social Interaction between Mother and Son In between him coming home from school and going to bed? Or does this lad go to bed at 4 pm In the afternoon as soon as he's home from school?

" One Evening " ??? What evening ? That evening or thre or four evenings later?

The only disgrace here Is what appears to be lack of communication towards the child from the Mother.

That's teenagers for you :wah: and that's why it shouldn't be left just up to the child to explain what the task is about. If parents are fore warned they can open up the subject for conversation, they may only get a few grunts in return but that's the teenage condition, particularly with boys it seems.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:10 pm

Betty Boop;1397273 wrote: That's teenagers for you :wah: and that's why it shouldn't be left just up to the child to explain what the task is about. If parents are fore warned they can open up the subject for conversation, they may only get a few grunts in return but that's the teenage condition, particularly with boys it seems. ....

Attached files

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:12 pm

spot;1397270 wrote: I doubt one in ten of the children writing their goodbye letters fictionalized at all - the one focused on which distressed his mother certainly didn't.

Because you see the words 'creative writing' you make the assumption that the children are expected to make up pure fiction. This isn't the case here, the children have a choice to write something that is based on life and embroidered with fiction, to write pure fiction if they wish or to write about their true thoughts and feelings. I agree with the statement in the article that;

"It's important that children and young people have an opportunity to share and express their feelings.

BBC News - Stoke Discovery Academy school sorry for 'suicide note'

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:18 pm

oscar;1397274 wrote: ....

:wah: that reminds me of the 70's and 80's with my parents glaring at me and then looking at my report and saying 'apparently all your teachers think you should try harder'. There were always other things going on that seemed more important than homework and school. We still have the same basic issues today, but you're right, parents would rather blame the teachers than the children. I'm allowed to blame the teachers with regards my son as they seem to keep trying to teach him as if there is nothing wrong with him. But that's a whole other argument, he shouldn't be in a main stream school :rolleyes:

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:29 pm

I'd also like to add for Spot's benefit that these kids at secondary school have also lived with and coped with close friends passing away far too young, at least four teens have passed away due to cancer and leukaemia in the last three years at my son's school. They are able to put themselves in the position of someone with little time left, they've grown up with it happening around them. The difference is, in your day it wouldn't have been discussed, children wouldn't have been allowed to show how upset they were, it's why schools have counsellors employed within schools nowadays. This kind of exercise is relevant to their lives today.

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:18 pm

Betty Boop;1397275 wrote: I agree with the statement in the article that;

"It's important that children and young people have an opportunity to share and express their feelings.

Ah. There we differ, when it comes to a school setting. Elsewhere yes, at school never under any circumstances. It's not the business of the school. The school's remit is to exercise the body and educate the mind.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:23 pm

You might not have this problem in the UK but because of school and classmates' diligence, we've avoided school violence in several cases. I don't think it's a bad thing for teachers to 'monitor' student emotions via their writing and artwork.

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:27 pm

Betty Boop;1397277 wrote: The difference is, in your day it wouldn't have been discussed, children wouldn't have been allowed to show how upset they were, it's why schools have counsellors employed within schools nowadays. This kind of exercise is relevant to their lives today.I can't imagine why you think death was any less commonplace back then, if anything you'd expect it to have been more so. The namby-pamby cosseting you describe was non-existent and I reckon we were none the worse for it. Had we lost a class or two in an air crash we would have expected a parade in the Cathedral the month after but short of that, it's what we had caps for. To doff at the coffin.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:28 pm

I prefer exercising the mind, thus making the brain fit for taking on information.

Possibly a silly statement coming up.............

You cannot educate an unwilling pupil, a schools remit is to make it's pupils able and willing to enjoy educating themselves, and to help them to that end by feeding them facts.

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:29 pm

SnoozeAgain;1397299 wrote: You might not have this problem in the UK but because of school and classmates' diligence, we've avoided school violence in several cases. I don't think it's a bad thing for teachers to 'monitor' student emotions via their writing and artwork.

Or, from the occasional news report I've seen, to remotely turn on their laptop camera and microphone when the student is at home. Just to keep tabs on them.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:41 pm

Parenting is becoming a lost art.

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:43 pm

One keeps one's hand in as best one can.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:51 pm

spot;1397301 wrote: I can't imagine why you think death was any less commonplace back then, if anything you'd expect it to have been more so. The namby-pamby cosseting you describe was non-existent and I reckon we were none the worse for it. Had we lost a class or two in an air crash we would have expected a parade in the Cathedral the month after but short of that, it's what we had caps for. To doff at the coffin.

I don't for one minute think it was less commonplace and I didn't say that anywhere in my post! The way we deal with death and dying has changed, the kids are involved in the process. They visit and spend time with the dying, then when the death has happened they take part in tributes in the community and at school. You may call it namby pambying but we normal people call it dealing with feelings and emotions, the British stiff upper lip attitude has caused more harm than good over the years. I wish to raise children who realise it's ok to have feelings and the sooner they learn how to cope with such feelings the better.

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:54 pm

There's nothing wrong with feelings, it's important that children and young people have an opportunity to share and express their feelings, but school is not the place to explore the topic. A school should have a specific remit and firmly stick to it. A school is not a sticking plaster for a failing society, it's a place to get educated.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:54 pm

spot;1397293 wrote: Ah. There we differ, when it comes to a school setting. Elsewhere yes, at school never under any circumstances. It's not the business of the school. The school's remit is to exercise the body and educate the mind.

The schools do more nowadays, simply because sadly some, not all, children lack emotional guidance at home.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:04 pm

Betty Boop;1397310 wrote: The schools do more nowadays, simply because sadly some, not all, children lack emotional guidance at home.

When I was about 12 years old, a local police officer went missing. We lived In and our school was In a very small village In the Sussex Downs. I'll never forget It.... It was In the middle of a history lesson and If my memory serves me correctly, It was about Elizabeth 1st. Our teacher was getting annoyed about the drone of helicopters above drowning him out and complained abut It. A girl In my class then said ' Sorry Sir, but they're looking for my Dad'... who's body was later found In nearby countryside.

Thank God we now have a ' Namby Pamby' system.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:05 pm

spot;1397309 wrote: There's nothing wrong with feelings, it's important that children and young people have an opportunity to share and express their feelings, but school is not the place to explore the topic. A school should have a specific remit and firmly stick to it. A school is not a sticking plaster for a failing society, it's a place to get educated.

I agree with the fact that school is not a sticking plaster for a failing society. But, that aside school is a scary place, you are open to bullying from your peers, you are often made to feel a failure, you can be ridiculed for being a swot just as much if you're in the lower sets and considered dumb. Then throw puberty into the mix just to stress these kids out all the more! To not provide places within school for emotions and feelings to be dealt with is just a crazy idea. Teens need to be supported throughout all areas of life, how many teens do you know that confide day in and day out to their parents about every single little aspect of their lives? They don't, they need to be able to go to others who are impartial.

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:16 pm

Isn't one of the keys to creative writing to imagine a person other than oneself and to imagine how that person would react to circumstances other than what the writer has experienced? For students just starting out in creative writing, I can understand how this might be a valuable exercise. A teacher would probably know if one of his/her students had a terminal illness. Assuming that none of the students did, this would be a situation that would be outside their experience and thus be of value for this exercise. By hearing what other students had written, each could learn something about the process of imagining such a character.

How would this be inappropriate for an introductory class in creative writing? Am I missing something?

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:18 pm

What you describe would be perfectly appropriate and educational, I'd be all for it. It's not what happened in Staffordshire though.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:18 pm

Wandrin;1397315 wrote: Isn't one of the keys to creative writing to imagine a person other than oneself and to imagine how that person would react to circumstances other than what the writer has experienced? For students just starting out in creative writing, I can understand how this might be a valuable exercise. A teacher would probably know if one of his/her students had a terminal illness. Assuming that none of the students did, this would be a situation that would be outside their experience and thus be of value for this exercise. By hearing what other students had written, each could learn something about the process of imagining such a character.

How would this be inappropriate for an introductory class in creative writing? Am I missing something? Good post.... No, you're not missing anything.

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:20 pm

Betty Boop;1397313 wrote: Teens need to be supported throughout all areas of life, how many teens do you know that confide day in and day out to their parents about every single little aspect of their lives? They don't, they need to be able to go to others who are impartial.

In my day I went to the local Scout troop once a week for that sort of thing.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:25 pm

spot;1397318 wrote: In my day I went to the local Scout troop once a week for that sort of thing.

And you confided your feelings to someone there did you?

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:27 pm

Betty Boop;1397320 wrote: And you confided your feelings to someone there did you?

Had I at any stage felt the slightest need I'm sure Baloo would have sat me on his knee and listened. The circumstance fortunately never arose.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:32 pm

Have you all seen this?

Middle schoolers bully bus monitor, 68, with stream of profanity, jeers - CNN.com

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:33 pm

spot;1397323 wrote: Had I at any stage felt the slightest need I'm sure Baloo would have sat me on his knee and listened. The circumstance fortunately never arose.

Yet, according to your post

'In my day I went to the local Scout troop once a week for that sort of thing'

was in response to my

'they need to be able to go to others who are impartial'

:-2

You are just one great big contradiction in terms! I reckon you just like arguing for arguing's sake because you don't know how to deal with feelings and emotions because you didn't learn how to when a teen.

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:38 pm

SnoozeAgain;1397325 wrote: Have you all seen this? I tried to follow the article and I know what's got me stuck - what is the function of a bus monitor? I may be out of touch but it's my sense that no such job exists in England. What's one for? What are the duties?

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:40 pm

Betty Boop;1397326 wrote: You are just one great big contradiction in terms! I reckon you just like arguing for arguing's sake because you don't know how to deal with feelings and emotions because you didn't learn how to when a teen. :-PI did read a lot of books though.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:42 pm

spot;1397327 wrote: I tried to follow the article and I know what's got me stuck - what is the function of a bus monitor? I may be out of touch but it's my sense that no such job exists in England. What's one for? What are the duties?

Does it matter?

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:45 pm

Absolutely. Wikipedia's never heard of them either.

Lets Give Karen -The bus monitor- H Klein A Vacation! -- Indiegogo is interesting though.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:50 pm

spot;1397327 wrote: I tried to follow the article and I know what's got me stuck - what is the function of a bus monitor? I may be out of touch but it's my sense that no such job exists in England. What's one for? What are the duties?

http://www.paterson.k12.nj.us/staff/job ... onitor.pdf

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:57 pm

They do have an equivalent in this country when there is trouble on certain buses, it's just not got to the point where they employ someone solely for the job. So far teachers and TA's have taken turns to travel on buses where there have been problems in my son's school as the bus companies threatened to pull out of their contract.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:57 pm

Spot, this is a good example of why you annoy so many people here. The job description has NOTHING to do with the video showing how she was treated. But you have to focus on something completely off topic, fussing over it and distracting from the actual subject at hand.