Or, specifically, The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary into Heaven, "dogmatically and infallibly defined by Pope Pius XII on November 1, 1950" and hence irrevocably a part of Roman Catholic belief for the rest of time.
Anyway. Every picture I've ever seen of The Assumption shows a teenage girl with a vacant stare, occasionally holding or surrounded by flowers, and I was wondering why. How old was Mary when she was Assumed? I take it that it must have been after the crucifixion, for example.
Where are the pictures of an old age pensioner with a vacant stare and a bunch of flowers being carried aloft by angels?
Assuming nobody can find one, why not?
Assumptions
Assumptions
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Assumptions
She would more likely be middle-age, rather than "old-age pensioner"
If Jesus was her first born, and she was very young (Probably 16?) then she was no older than fifty.
So, while the images are not of an old crone, the images I can find do not seem to portray a teeny-bopper, either.
If Jesus was her first born, and she was very young (Probably 16?) then she was no older than fifty.
So, while the images are not of an old crone, the images I can find do not seem to portray a teeny-bopper, either.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Assumptions
That's a teeny-bopper. Honestly.
"She was no older than fifty" at the crucifixion but she died indeterminably later than that, which is why I gave her ten years grace and made her a pensioner. Be that as it may, I doubt any fifty year old resident of Jerusalem in the first century AD retained a full set of teeth.
"She was no older than fifty" at the crucifixion but she died indeterminably later than that, which is why I gave her ten years grace and made her a pensioner. Be that as it may, I doubt any fifty year old resident of Jerusalem in the first century AD retained a full set of teeth.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Assumptions
That explains why she is never smiling.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Assumptions
besides, artists always go for the ideal rather than the real. At least back in the days when all of those were painted or sculpted.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Assumptions
LarsMac;1400912 wrote: besides, artists always go for the ideal rather than the real. At least back in the days when all of those were painted or sculpted.
So an argument such as that in In what year was Mary assumed into Heaven? ~ Canterbury Tales by Dr. Taylor Marshall would be reasonable, in your opinion? That puts her in her seventies.
There are stacks of old women in paintings from the same artists who painted The Assumption, some of them being of other female saints. I could link some if you like. These artists weren't averse to painting old age. None at all ever did for The Assumption. They don't portray a pensioner, nor a fifty year old nor even a thirty year old, they portray a teenager.
So an argument such as that in In what year was Mary assumed into Heaven? ~ Canterbury Tales by Dr. Taylor Marshall would be reasonable, in your opinion? That puts her in her seventies.
There are stacks of old women in paintings from the same artists who painted The Assumption, some of them being of other female saints. I could link some if you like. These artists weren't averse to painting old age. None at all ever did for The Assumption. They don't portray a pensioner, nor a fifty year old nor even a thirty year old, they portray a teenager.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Assumptions
Nobody will pay for a painting of an old crone so of course the paintings are of a young woman. You do realise it is fantasy don't you? If the pope declared dogmatically and infallibly that the earth was flat and created in six days would you believe that as well?
Assumptions
gmc;1400919 wrote: Nobody will pay for a painting of an old crone so of course the paintings are of a young woman. You do realise it is fantasy don't you? If the pope declared dogmatically and infallibly that the earth was flat and created in six days would you believe that as well?
I don't for a moment believe that The Assumption occurred. I said the Roman Catholic Church is committed for all time to believe it. I have no opinion on whether the Mother of Jesus existed or was fictional, or whether any aspect of Jesus existed or was fictional, I have no reason to believe those matters one way or the other. The Assumption, on the other hand, is blatant fiction.
As for "nobody will pay for a painting of an old crone" that's obviously incorrect. People did, from the same artists who painted The Assumption. Here's one by Mantegna with a pre-Assumptive Mary for comparison, and the surliest Infant Jesus of all time.
I don't for a moment believe that The Assumption occurred. I said the Roman Catholic Church is committed for all time to believe it. I have no opinion on whether the Mother of Jesus existed or was fictional, or whether any aspect of Jesus existed or was fictional, I have no reason to believe those matters one way or the other. The Assumption, on the other hand, is blatant fiction.
As for "nobody will pay for a painting of an old crone" that's obviously incorrect. People did, from the same artists who painted The Assumption. Here's one by Mantegna with a pre-Assumptive Mary for comparison, and the surliest Infant Jesus of all time.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Assumptions
When you make an "Assumption" you make an ASS out of U M PTION.
Assumptions
As I said earlier today, you have far too much time on your hands.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Assumptions
What about Whistlers Mother ?
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Assumptions
YZGI;1400950 wrote: When you make an "Assumption" you make an ASS out of U M PTION.
That made me chuckle
That made me chuckle
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Assumptions
YZGI;1400950 wrote: When you make an "Assumption" you make an ASS out of U M PTION.
Why is it that a perfectly good English word has to become unusable because half the world thinks they're making a point by quoting that asinine bit of doggerel? If I make an assumption based on specified facts then people can judge for themselves whether the specified facts warrant the assumption or not. Assuming, in those circumstances, is entirely legitimate.
Why is it that a perfectly good English word has to become unusable because half the world thinks they're making a point by quoting that asinine bit of doggerel? If I make an assumption based on specified facts then people can judge for themselves whether the specified facts warrant the assumption or not. Assuming, in those circumstances, is entirely legitimate.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Assumptions
Frankly, I never got the whole thing about virtually deifying Mary, to begin with.
But then, I rarely had much to do with the Catholic Church.
I guess the artists had never actually seen Mary, so they used whatever model the could hire to pose for them.
Not many old ladies would agree to stand around for hours on end. There's work to do, grandkids to tend, and besides, "I gotta go to the bathroom."
But then, I rarely had much to do with the Catholic Church.
I guess the artists had never actually seen Mary, so they used whatever model the could hire to pose for them.
Not many old ladies would agree to stand around for hours on end. There's work to do, grandkids to tend, and besides, "I gotta go to the bathroom."
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Assumptions
Snowfire;1400953 wrote: What about Whistlers Mother ?
She wasn't dogmatically stated to have been bodily transported into Heaven. Unlike the Blessed Virgin Mary, who was dogmatically stated to have been. Perhaps Whistler wasn't Catholic enough.
She wasn't dogmatically stated to have been bodily transported into Heaven. Unlike the Blessed Virgin Mary, who was dogmatically stated to have been. Perhaps Whistler wasn't Catholic enough.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Assumptions
spot;1400955 wrote: Why is it that a perfectly good English word has to become unusable because half the world thinks they're making a point by quoting that asinine bit of doggerel? If I make an assumption based on specified facts then people can judge for themselves whether the specified facts warrant the assumption or not. Assuming, in those circumstances, is entirely legitimate.
The point was to get a chuckle. I obviously assumed wrongly.
The point was to get a chuckle. I obviously assumed wrongly.
Assumptions
spot;1400957 wrote: She wasn't dogmatically stated to have been bodily transported into Heaven. Unlike the Blessed Virgin Mary, who was dogmatically stated to have been. Perhaps Whistler wasn't Catholic enough.
I was merely referring to gmc assertion that no one would buy a painting of an old crone. I was fairly certain of the rest
I was merely referring to gmc assertion that no one would buy a painting of an old crone. I was fairly certain of the rest
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Assumptions
Snowfire;1400961 wrote: I was merely referring to gmc assertion that no one would buy a painting of an old crone. I was fairly certain of the rest
We could start the Church of the Holy Whistler?
We could start the Church of the Holy Whistler?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Assumptions
YZGI;1400959 wrote: The point was to get a chuckle. I obviously assumed wrongly.
I do so loathe and detest humour.
I do so loathe and detest humour.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Assumptions
spot;1400964 wrote: I do so loathe and detest humour.
Well how are we supposed to know ? Do give us a clue !
Well how are we supposed to know ? Do give us a clue !
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Assumptions
spot;1400964 wrote: I do so loathe and detest humour.
Snowfire;1400966 wrote: Well how are we supposed to know ? Do give us a clue !
Oh, trust me, we knew.
Snowfire;1400966 wrote: Well how are we supposed to know ? Do give us a clue !
Oh, trust me, we knew.
Assumptions
What age will you be in heaven? I suppose the logic (if such a thing can be used in a discussion about religion) is you wouldn't be a decrepit old crone.
posted by larsmac
Frankly, I never got the whole thing about virtually deifying Mary, to begin with.
You shall have no other god before me. You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them.
Therein lies one of the causes of the protestant reformation. Having grown up in a country rife with sectarianism I could explain it to you and why it is wrong and also right from both perspectives but in the 21st century it is a silly thing to get worked up about yet so many do.
spot;1400964 wrote: I do so loathe and detest humour.
Oscar went to a beauty parlour last week for a mudpack. For two days she looked great, then the mud fell off.
Go on admit it your lips twitched there didn't they.
posted by larsmac
Frankly, I never got the whole thing about virtually deifying Mary, to begin with.
You shall have no other god before me. You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them.
Therein lies one of the causes of the protestant reformation. Having grown up in a country rife with sectarianism I could explain it to you and why it is wrong and also right from both perspectives but in the 21st century it is a silly thing to get worked up about yet so many do.
spot;1400964 wrote: I do so loathe and detest humour.
Oscar went to a beauty parlour last week for a mudpack. For two days she looked great, then the mud fell off.
Go on admit it your lips twitched there didn't they.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Assumptions
gmc;1400970 wrote:
Oscar went to a beauty parlour last week for a mudpack. For two days she looked great, then the mud fell off.
.
Pheasent botherer.
Oscar went to a beauty parlour last week for a mudpack. For two days she looked great, then the mud fell off.
.
Pheasent botherer.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
-
along-for-the-ride
- Posts: 11732
- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:28 pm
Assumptions
You may find this short article along with the painting interesting.
RORATE CÆLI: A Great Sign: may the Queen of Heaven help us become burning dwelling places of the Most High
RORATE CÆLI: A Great Sign: may the Queen of Heaven help us become burning dwelling places of the Most High
Life is a Highway. Let's share the Commute.
Assumptions
gmc;1400970 wrote: What age will you be in heaven? I suppose the logic (if such a thing can be used in a discussion about religion) is you wouldn't be a decrepit old crone.
The part of the dogma is that The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary was of her body, unlike the rest of plebeian creation with a half dozen debatable exceptions. What age she was when she Assumed is the age the pictures are failing to portray, this is meant to be the transporting of the physical body into heaven they're painting.
The part of the dogma is that The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary was of her body, unlike the rest of plebeian creation with a half dozen debatable exceptions. What age she was when she Assumed is the age the pictures are failing to portray, this is meant to be the transporting of the physical body into heaven they're painting.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Assumptions
I can't believe I am responding to this thread.........
If the all powerful being reclaimed the physical body of the mother of his son.......presumably he would reclaim the body in pristine condition, not the aged current state of the lady.
If you believe one, the other is possible too, there is also poetic/artistic licence to consider........Kodak came later.
If the all powerful being reclaimed the physical body of the mother of his son.......presumably he would reclaim the body in pristine condition, not the aged current state of the lady.
If you believe one, the other is possible too, there is also poetic/artistic licence to consider........Kodak came later.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Assumptions
Bruv;1401032 wrote: If the all powerful being reclaimed the physical body of the mother of his son.......presumably he would reclaim the body in pristine conditionOnly if the bugger's prone to cheating.
Saint Thomas is reported to have seen the event, he never knew Mary as a teenager. If he'd been sat at the bedside of a woman in her seventies and suddenly the roof mirages aside and hosts of angels with floral tributes sing some unrecognisable girl to her final reward, one might think he'd have been reportedly completely baffled.
Saint Thomas is reported to have seen the event, he never knew Mary as a teenager. If he'd been sat at the bedside of a woman in her seventies and suddenly the roof mirages aside and hosts of angels with floral tributes sing some unrecognisable girl to her final reward, one might think he'd have been reportedly completely baffled.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Assumptions
Bruv;1401032 wrote: I can't believe I am responding to this thread.........
If the all powerful being reclaimed the physical body of the mother of his son.......presumably he would reclaim the body in pristine condition, not the aged current state of the lady.
If you believe one, the other is possible too, there is also poetic/artistic licence to consider........Kodak came later.
I'm not really understanding this thread but that won't stop me :-5
Why would the all powerful being be bothered about physical appearance?
If the all powerful being reclaimed the physical body of the mother of his son.......presumably he would reclaim the body in pristine condition, not the aged current state of the lady.
If you believe one, the other is possible too, there is also poetic/artistic licence to consider........Kodak came later.
I'm not really understanding this thread but that won't stop me :-5
Why would the all powerful being be bothered about physical appearance?
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
Assumptions
theia;1401035 wrote: I'm not really understanding this thread but that won't stop me :-5
Why would the all powerful being be bothered about physical appearance?
The All powerful being didn't paint the pictures, some rose tinted artiste (artist with an e on the end) did.
Why would the all powerful being be bothered about physical appearance?
The All powerful being didn't paint the pictures, some rose tinted artiste (artist with an e on the end) did.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Assumptions
Perhaps Mary hadn't aged after the conception of Christ.
Assumptions
K.Snyder;1401041 wrote: Perhaps Mary hadn't aged after the conception of Christ.
That, I suspect, is the underlying impression Roman Catholicism is attempting to convey whenever Mariolatry is depicted, and has been throughout the period these Old Master paintings cover.
That, I suspect, is the underlying impression Roman Catholicism is attempting to convey whenever Mariolatry is depicted, and has been throughout the period these Old Master paintings cover.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Assumptions
along-for-the-ride;1400999 wrote: You may find this short article along with the painting interesting.Yes, I did. I'm surprised ideas like that can exist in a non-fictional setting, they're utterly insane.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
Its a narrow way
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:08 am
Assumptions
Thou shalt not make Graven images
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Assumptions
Its a narrow way;1401270 wrote: Thou shalt not make Graven images Thou shalt not trash Spot's thread for verily, the great lord shalt rip your head off and piss down your neck.
Gospel According to Oscar Chapter 7 Verse 5
Gospel According to Oscar Chapter 7 Verse 5
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Assumptions
Its a narrow way;1401270 wrote: Thou shalt not make Graven imagesYou cut out the important bit. Thou shalt not make any graven image of anything at all to which you bow down or serve. Graven images are fine, so long as you don't worship them.
Having said which, as far as graven images of the Blessed Virgin Mary are concerned, it's a fair cop. The Roman Catholic Church is guilty as charged.
Having said which, as far as graven images of the Blessed Virgin Mary are concerned, it's a fair cop. The Roman Catholic Church is guilty as charged.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
Its a narrow way
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:08 am
Assumptions
Moma Whore of the Seven hills been at it again!
The Lady of the Jesuits is not even an invention of Jesuitism, but an adoption of a pagan conception which cursed Babylon, the prototype of the modern Babylon, centuries before Christ appeared as the son of Mary. Pictures of the mother and child were then worshiped. In almost all the devotional books of the Roman Catholic Church, the mother of God is crowned, sceptred and enthroned as the Queen of heaven. ["She has been appointed by God to be the Queen of heaven and earth", Pius IX, 1854, but not made official till 1954 by Pius XII.] "I can never," said the Rev. M. Hobart Seymour, in his Evenings with the Romanists, page 254, "forget the shock I received when I first saw in their churches in Italy, the Virgin Mary crowned as Queen of heaven, seated on the same throne with Jesus crowned King of heaven. These were the God-man and God-woman enthroned alike. There was nothing to distinguish the one above the other."
The origin of this idolatry had its root in ancient mythology. Astarte of the Assyrians, Ashtoreth of the Sidonians and Bowaney of the Hindoos held the place that Mary occupies in the church of Rome. Greece had her Venus and Rome her Juno. The Diana of the Ephesians was a female, from whose body in every part there seemed to be issuing all the various animals of creation, symbolizing the conception and creation of all things.
The Egyptians on the one hand and the Etrurians on the other had their Isis, the same symbol, a female divinity whom they regarded as "the mother of the gods." Jeremiah describes the Jews who had rebelled against God as making cakes to "the queen of heaven" (Jer 7:18; 44:17), the title given to Juno in the Scandinavian theology. Rome has adopted this element of heathenism, this product of the carnal heart. In all its essential elements the Roman Etrurian and the Romish Mary brought from Babylon and adopted by papal Rome are in accord - Romanists are idolaters. In their churches are pictures of the Virgin that are worshiped because of the wonderful things professedly done by them. In St. Peter's is a picture of the Virgin bearing the inscription that it had miraculously shed blood when struck by a stone. A picture of the mother and child is at Lucca, of which it was affirmed that when some one flung a stone at the face of the child she transferred the child to the other arm and thus saved it from injury. The Jesuits defend this.
It is claimed by Romanists that the mother and child sustain the same relation in heaven which they have assigned them on earth, and that Jesus is more the mediator with Mary than Mary is the intercessor with Christ. From Babylon, this worship of the mother and child spread to the ends of the earth. In Egypt, in Assyria, in China and in Greece and elsewhere, this form of worship suited to the carnal heart gained sway. Circe, the daughter of the sun, taken from Pompeii, has the nimbus or circle surrounding the head in the very same way as the head of the Roman Madonna is at this time adorned in the pictures given of this mistress of Rubens, this lady of the Jesuits. Can any one believe this coincidence accidental
Is Mary the "Mother of God"?
The history of the doctrine:
The cult of the Mother Goddess entered the Christian Church in typically Christian categories, such as the Ecclesia [church], represented as the spiritual mother of Christians, or as "the Second Eve," whose divine motherhood is responsible for mankind's rebirth. It was through such Christian concepts that the idea of the divine feminine took root in Christianity, and it was a long and often confusing process until Mary was declared to be the Mother of God. But it is the primordial mystery of generation and childbirth, the appearance of life, and the age-old belief that motherhood is part of a cosmic order upon which both the pagan and the Christian versions of the cult of the theotokos ["God bearer", i.e., Mother of God, Council of Ephesus, 431 A.D.] rest. This reverence for motherhood and childbirth is the basic principle of Mariology, a principle which Christianity inherited from its pagan forerunners.
Stephen Benko (1993) The Virgin Goddess: Studies in the pagan and Christian roots of Mariology. Leiden: E.J. Brill. p. 5
The Lateran Council of 469 under Pope Martin I declared: "if anyone does not confess in harmony with the holy Fathers that the holy and ever virgin and immaculate Mary is really and truly the mother of God, inasmuch as she in the last times and without semen by the Holy Spirit conceived God the Word himself specially and truthfully, who was born from God the Father before all ages, and she bore him uncorrupted, and after his birth her virginity remaining indissoluble, let him be condemned." The perpetual virginity of Mary thus became an official teaching of the church: Mary was a virgin before, during, and after the birth of Jesus. In 1555, the Council of Trent confirmed this dogma in the Constitution of Pope Paul IV known as "Cum Quorundam." Here the pope warns against teaching that "the same blessed Virgin Mary is not truly the Mother of God, and did not remain always in the integrity of virginity, i. e., before birth, in birth, and perpetually after birth."
The Lady of the Jesuits is not even an invention of Jesuitism, but an adoption of a pagan conception which cursed Babylon, the prototype of the modern Babylon, centuries before Christ appeared as the son of Mary. Pictures of the mother and child were then worshiped. In almost all the devotional books of the Roman Catholic Church, the mother of God is crowned, sceptred and enthroned as the Queen of heaven. ["She has been appointed by God to be the Queen of heaven and earth", Pius IX, 1854, but not made official till 1954 by Pius XII.] "I can never," said the Rev. M. Hobart Seymour, in his Evenings with the Romanists, page 254, "forget the shock I received when I first saw in their churches in Italy, the Virgin Mary crowned as Queen of heaven, seated on the same throne with Jesus crowned King of heaven. These were the God-man and God-woman enthroned alike. There was nothing to distinguish the one above the other."
The origin of this idolatry had its root in ancient mythology. Astarte of the Assyrians, Ashtoreth of the Sidonians and Bowaney of the Hindoos held the place that Mary occupies in the church of Rome. Greece had her Venus and Rome her Juno. The Diana of the Ephesians was a female, from whose body in every part there seemed to be issuing all the various animals of creation, symbolizing the conception and creation of all things.
The Egyptians on the one hand and the Etrurians on the other had their Isis, the same symbol, a female divinity whom they regarded as "the mother of the gods." Jeremiah describes the Jews who had rebelled against God as making cakes to "the queen of heaven" (Jer 7:18; 44:17), the title given to Juno in the Scandinavian theology. Rome has adopted this element of heathenism, this product of the carnal heart. In all its essential elements the Roman Etrurian and the Romish Mary brought from Babylon and adopted by papal Rome are in accord - Romanists are idolaters. In their churches are pictures of the Virgin that are worshiped because of the wonderful things professedly done by them. In St. Peter's is a picture of the Virgin bearing the inscription that it had miraculously shed blood when struck by a stone. A picture of the mother and child is at Lucca, of which it was affirmed that when some one flung a stone at the face of the child she transferred the child to the other arm and thus saved it from injury. The Jesuits defend this.
It is claimed by Romanists that the mother and child sustain the same relation in heaven which they have assigned them on earth, and that Jesus is more the mediator with Mary than Mary is the intercessor with Christ. From Babylon, this worship of the mother and child spread to the ends of the earth. In Egypt, in Assyria, in China and in Greece and elsewhere, this form of worship suited to the carnal heart gained sway. Circe, the daughter of the sun, taken from Pompeii, has the nimbus or circle surrounding the head in the very same way as the head of the Roman Madonna is at this time adorned in the pictures given of this mistress of Rubens, this lady of the Jesuits. Can any one believe this coincidence accidental
Is Mary the "Mother of God"?
The history of the doctrine:
The cult of the Mother Goddess entered the Christian Church in typically Christian categories, such as the Ecclesia [church], represented as the spiritual mother of Christians, or as "the Second Eve," whose divine motherhood is responsible for mankind's rebirth. It was through such Christian concepts that the idea of the divine feminine took root in Christianity, and it was a long and often confusing process until Mary was declared to be the Mother of God. But it is the primordial mystery of generation and childbirth, the appearance of life, and the age-old belief that motherhood is part of a cosmic order upon which both the pagan and the Christian versions of the cult of the theotokos ["God bearer", i.e., Mother of God, Council of Ephesus, 431 A.D.] rest. This reverence for motherhood and childbirth is the basic principle of Mariology, a principle which Christianity inherited from its pagan forerunners.
Stephen Benko (1993) The Virgin Goddess: Studies in the pagan and Christian roots of Mariology. Leiden: E.J. Brill. p. 5
The Lateran Council of 469 under Pope Martin I declared: "if anyone does not confess in harmony with the holy Fathers that the holy and ever virgin and immaculate Mary is really and truly the mother of God, inasmuch as she in the last times and without semen by the Holy Spirit conceived God the Word himself specially and truthfully, who was born from God the Father before all ages, and she bore him uncorrupted, and after his birth her virginity remaining indissoluble, let him be condemned." The perpetual virginity of Mary thus became an official teaching of the church: Mary was a virgin before, during, and after the birth of Jesus. In 1555, the Council of Trent confirmed this dogma in the Constitution of Pope Paul IV known as "Cum Quorundam." Here the pope warns against teaching that "the same blessed Virgin Mary is not truly the Mother of God, and did not remain always in the integrity of virginity, i. e., before birth, in birth, and perpetually after birth."
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Its a narrow way
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Assumptions
let him be condemned." ????? So a real man of God would refuse such foolishness as Mary being the actual mother of God and get them self Condemed !
Probly athiest at the time would just say yes to stop being condemed .
So there the Bible hit right on in predicting what would happen on earth , The mother of harlots setting in the seven hills (Rome) has been Condeming real men of God to death just like the bible fortells will happen.
Who was these Herritics that she wanted tortured and put to death? She killed the Querto Decimens , Or the 14 thers or those that rejected easter as being pagan . THE OLD BIBLE BEEN HITTING RIGHT ON . THATS WHY I AM NOT A ATHIEST the old whore is here just like the bible fortold . In Rev 18 it fortells the merchants of the earth will wax rich with her delicacies ! You ever try to get near a mall at Christmas time? Easter? Haloween? Valentines? THE BIBLE HITS RIGHT ON AGAIN ! YES ALL NATIONS are fornicating with her . SHE IS DRUNK WITH THE BLOOD OF THE SAINTS . LET HIM BE CONDEMED!!!!!!
Probly athiest at the time would just say yes to stop being condemed .
So there the Bible hit right on in predicting what would happen on earth , The mother of harlots setting in the seven hills (Rome) has been Condeming real men of God to death just like the bible fortells will happen.
Who was these Herritics that she wanted tortured and put to death? She killed the Querto Decimens , Or the 14 thers or those that rejected easter as being pagan . THE OLD BIBLE BEEN HITTING RIGHT ON . THATS WHY I AM NOT A ATHIEST the old whore is here just like the bible fortold . In Rev 18 it fortells the merchants of the earth will wax rich with her delicacies ! You ever try to get near a mall at Christmas time? Easter? Haloween? Valentines? THE BIBLE HITS RIGHT ON AGAIN ! YES ALL NATIONS are fornicating with her . SHE IS DRUNK WITH THE BLOOD OF THE SAINTS . LET HIM BE CONDEMED!!!!!!
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Its a narrow way
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:08 am
Assumptions
They would kill you if you would not accept Mary always being a virgin and Christ had brothers and sisters in our bibles.
Of course in the Spanish Iqusition There was a Index of forbidden books . The bible was on the list to get yourself killed for haveing in your possession .
Does any body really think thats how Gods church would behave ? I thought we was suppose to Study show ourselves worthy . Or search the scriptures daily to see if its so?
Of course in the Spanish Iqusition There was a Index of forbidden books . The bible was on the list to get yourself killed for haveing in your possession .
Does any body really think thats how Gods church would behave ? I thought we was suppose to Study show ourselves worthy . Or search the scriptures daily to see if its so?