Is this what they call self hate ?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:05 am

A leading member of a Hungarian anti-Semitic party, notorious for his provocative comments about Jews has discovered that he is a Jew himself.

Post by **spot** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:21 am

I think not. Self hate is a term used by Zionists to negate any impact of a Jew criticizing either Zionism in general or Israeli government policy in particular. It is, in my opinion, an abusive term. It's used to intimidate.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:25 am

spot;1400873 wrote: I think not. Self hate is a term used by Zionists to negate any impact of a Jew criticizing either Zionism in general or Israeli government policy in particular. It is, in my opinion, an abusive term. It's used to intimidate.

The question was part joke part rhetorical, the term 'self hate' has nothing to do with Zionists or Jews or Israel specifically

Post by **spot** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:31 am

Bruv;1400876 wrote: The question was part joke part rhetorical, the term 'self hate' has nothing to do with Zionists or Jews or Israel specifically

You might check before you write that.The term became "something of a key term of opprobrium in and beyond Cold War-era debates about Zionism"

Self-hating Jew - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:45 am

spot;1400877 wrote: You might check before you write that.

You might like to re read what I wrote before including the word Jew as part of the sentence.

'Self hating Jew' relates to Jews, 'self hate' alone does not...... necessarily.

Every thing has a context, this post was prompted from a black forum who's members are often accused of self hate, none of which are Jewish.

Post by **spot** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:00 am

Bruv;1400878 wrote: Every thing has a context, this post was prompted from a black forum who's members are often accused of self hate, none of which are Jewish.Do you know, I think I'm legitimately allowed to assume the context from the content... "A leading member of a Hungarian anti-Semitic party, notorious for his provocative comments about Jews has discovered that he is a Jew himself". The step from there to self-hating Jew is pretty short and obvious.

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:08 am

you know what they say about assume.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:12 am

How could it be self hate if he didn't know he was Jewish?

Post by **spot** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:54 am

I think the Daily Mail article is a lie - I often think that about Daily Mail articles because they often are. They say "has discovered that he is a Jew himself" implying a recent event as opposed to disguising what he knew for years. The Associated Press, on the other hand, has him in 2010 havinga long conversation with his grandmother, who spoke about her family's past as Orthodox Jews. "It was then that it dawned on me that my grandmother really is Jewish," Szegedi told Hir TV. "I asked her how the deportations happened. She was in Auschwitz and Dachau and she was the only survivor in the extended family."

Notorious anti-Semite politician discovers he's Jewish | CTVNews

That's two years ago. This year, two years after discussing his heritage with his grandmother, we get the outing...Following weeks of Internet rumors, Szegedi acknowledged in June that his grandparents on his mother's side were Jews - making him one too under Jewish law, even though he doesn't practice the faith. His grandmother was an Auschwitz survivor and his grandfather a veteran of forced labor camps.It's a different picture to that painted by the Daily Mail, if you ask me. As to whether he knew before 2010, I'd be guessing.

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:01 am

So then, it was not so much him finding out that he was from Jewish ancestry, but when the Party found out and booted him that triggered The Mail article.

I think The Mail tries to actually write decent stories, but the person who writes the headlines is an ass.

Post by **spot** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:08 am

He was certainly pushing out yet more anti-Semitic comments after 2010 to the "exposed as" is a lot more reasonable.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:28 am

spot;1400879 wrote: The step from there to self-hating Jew is pretty short and obvious.

One of the once regular posters on the fore mentioned forum, had an affectation of saying ASS-ume whenever he felt the need.

The topic actually caused some mirth

Post by **spot** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:07 pm

Bruv;1400928 wrote: One of the once regular posters on the fore mentioned forum, had an affectation of saying ASS-ume whenever he felt the need.

The topic actually caused some mirth

I think I'm legitimately allowed to assume the context from the content I quoted. If you disagree you might at least point out why.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:07 am

spot;1401013 wrote: I think I'm legitimately allowed to assume the context from the content I quoted. If you disagree you might at least point out why.
I thought I had covered it with the following post..........

Bruv;1400878 wrote: You might like to re read what I wrote before including the word Jew as part of the sentence.

'Self hating Jew' relates to Jews, 'self hate' alone does not...... necessarily.

Every thing has a context, this post was prompted from a black forum who's members are often accused of self hate, none of which are Jewish.

Post by **spot** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:20 am

Bruv;1401031 wrote: I thought I had covered it with the following post..........
Will you please get it into your head, I'm not behaving like an ass by making an informed assumption!

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:48 am

spot;1401033 wrote: Will you please get it into your head, I'm not behaving like an ass by making an informed assumption!

I don't think I assumed anything, what are you going on about ?

A quick summary,

I knicked a topic off another site because it tickled my funny bone, a Jew hating Jew.

A comment there that was added latter..."so he was unknowingly self hating. wow." that I pre-empted by my title here.

I know nothing of 'self hating Jews' I am sadly ignorant of that phrase and the history behind it.

I am aware of African/Blacks being accused by their right-on brothers and sisters of being self haters due to their attempts to be assimilated accepted into white society, culture and shedding their own culture along the way.

My thread title did not mention Jews, and I have not knocked your assumption, only to report that you assumed more than I had written.

Teens can go through a period of self hate as can anybody else, self hate is not necessarily a Jew thing.......that is all.

The original story just happened to be about a Jew, it could have been any minority........as far as I am concerned.

My point being..... what a stupid stance to take hating on any group just because you can.

I think that clears that up ?

Post by **spot** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:34 am

Bruv;1401037 wrote: I know nothing of 'self hating Jews' I am sadly ignorant of that phrase and the history behind it.The fear of being accused of it in public keeps a lot of people from criticizing various policies of the Israeli government. The entire phrase "self-hating" seems to me to be a threat, I would be very wary of ever employing it - there's certainly no aspect of fun or amusement involved.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:46 am

"The fear of being accused of it in public keeps a lot of people from criticizing various policies of the Israeli government."

Baloney. Describe "a lot" & who they are. Thank you.

Post by **spot** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:58 am

AnneBoleyn;1401061 wrote: "The fear of being accused of it in public keeps a lot of people from criticizing various policies of the Israeli government."

Baloney. Describe "a lot" & who they are. Thank you.I base the suggestion on the pathological antipathy shown to those who've broken ranks with the "Israel can do no wrong" brigade. Perhaps if you read Mike Marqusee: The first time I was called a self-hating Jew | World news | The Guardian it will give you a sense of the difficulty faced by any Jew who takes a stand against Israeli aggression, lobbying and apartheid.

Examples of those who've taken a stand and been called a self-hating Jew in consequence are legion. Examples of those who've been deterred from taking that step are obviously invisible - how would you count those who would speak out but fear to? What process would you adopt?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:43 am

spot;1401042 wrote: The fear of being accused of it in public keeps a lot of people from criticizing various policies of the Israeli government. The entire phrase "self-hating" seems to me to be a threat, I would be very wary of ever employing it - there's certainly has no aspect of fun or amusement involved.

I see what you did there.........swerved back to your subject, virtually ignoring the post that tiny quote was taken from.

Life..........sigh.......complicated by people..........mainly.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:35 pm

spot;1401062 wrote: I base the suggestion on the pathological antipathy shown to those who've broken ranks with the "Israel can do no wrong" brigade. Perhaps if you read Mike Marqusee: The first time I was called a self-hating Jew | World news | The Guardian it will give you a sense of the difficulty faced by any Jew who takes a stand against Israeli aggression, lobbying and apartheid.

Examples of those who've taken a stand and been called a self-hating Jew in consequence are legion. Examples of those who've been deterred from taking that step are obviously invisible - how would you count those who would speak out but fear to? What process would you adopt?
Marqusee should stop whining & get over his oedipal trauma. I contend he is over-sensitive. It takes a bit of courage to oppose your group; if it is important enough an issue, put up or shut up.

Post by **spot** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:00 pm

AnneBoleyn;1401168 wrote: Marqusee should stop whining & get over his oedipal trauma. I contend he is over-sensitive. It takes a bit of courage to oppose your group; if it is important enough an issue, put up or shut up.

I picked the article as both interesting and typical. Do you accept that there are many people in his position, accused of being a "self-hating Jew" because they oppose aspects of Israeli government policy, or do you need more examples?

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:06 am

spot;1401170 wrote: I picked the article as both interesting and typical. Do you accept that there are many people in his position, accused of being a "self-hating Jew" because they oppose aspects of Israeli government policy, or do you need more examples?
I contend that being called a "self-hating Jew" means nothing and has no consequences. It doesn't stop any person's opinion, it carries no weight. It doesn't matter.

Post by **spot** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:24 am

AnneBoleyn;1401197 wrote: I contend that being called a "self-hating Jew" means nothing and has no consequences. It doesn't stop any person's opinion, it carries no weight. It doesn't matter.I suggest you ask those like Noam Chomsky or Woody Allen who have had the label applied to them by others.

Musings of a Self-Hating Jew » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names gives examples.

Does Israel have a right to exist? It exists. It has 200 nuclear weapons. The question is: can the majority of people and nations force Israel (and the US) to allow for the existence of Palestine.

To such a question the Israeli government and its fan club scream “anti Semitism” a response to all criticism of Israel. This has earned me, and thousands of others, the title of “self hating Jew.” On the list you’ll fnd Noam Chomsky and Woody Allen.You may disagree but the people saying otherwise have considerable repute.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:22 am

spot;1401198 wrote:

To such a question the Israeli government and its fan club scream “anti Semitism” a response to all criticism of Israel. This has earned me, and thousands of others, the title of “self hating Jew.” .
So you are Jewish ?

Post by **spot** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:33 am

Bruv;1401216 wrote: So you are Jewish ?

I'm afraid I don't have that honour.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:35 am

So how have you earned the title "self hating Jew" if you are not a Jew ?

You did just say that didn't you ?

Post by **spot** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:06 am

Bruv;1401222 wrote: So how have you earned the title "self hating Jew" if you are not a Jew ?

You did just say that didn't you ?

Not if you check the indents or read the article I quoted, no.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:49 am

spot;1401198 wrote: I suggest you ask those like Noam Chomsky or Woody Allen who have had the label applied to them by others.

Musings of a Self-Hating Jew » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names gives examples.

Does Israel have a right to exist? It exists. It has 200 nuclear weapons. The question is: can the majority of people and nations force Israel (and the US) to allow for the existence of Palestine.

To such a question the Israeli government and its fan club scream “anti Semitism” a response to all criticism of Israel. This has earned me, and thousands of others, the title of “self hating Jew.” On the list you’ll fnd Noam Chomsky and Woody Allen.You may disagree but the people saying otherwise have considerable repute.

And Noam Chomsky & Woody Allen were hurt how? Suffered career mishaps? Someone hired a hit man? No. They weren't hurt at all. Highly respected. In fact, the thought of Woody or Noam worried about such a thing -- I'd go so far as to say it's silly. In fact it's narishkeit.

There was an exchange between you & Bruv:

" Originally Posted by Bruv -- So you are Jewish ?

I'm afraid I don't have that honour."

Honour. A no would be sufficient. Honour is good too I guess.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:56 am

PS

Sometimes grown-ups must speak their minds & show non-conformity. If someone calls them a name for it, so be it. That's what happens with big boys & girls. They have opinions & sometimes are criticisized. Hate to see a big deal made over that. Doesn't rise to the occasion of self-hate.

Post by **spot** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:04 am

AnneBoleyn;1401509 wrote: Honour. A no would be sufficient. Honour is good too I guess.
It was a quote from a film.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:06 am

spot;1401513 wrote: It was a quote from a film.
Ok. But you chose to use it.

Post by **spot** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:09 am

AnneBoleyn;1401515 wrote: Ok. But you chose to use it.

And, indeed, I meant it. I'm merely explaining why the words are what they are.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:12 am

Nothing merely about you spot.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:48 am

AnneBoleyn;1401520 wrote: Nothing merely about you spot.

Too clever by half.

'Indents' indeed, us mortals use punctuation marks